so we broke up...

[silverwhisper]

rosebud: judging from yankee's post, it appears i did indeed miss something, so my apologies.

i agree with yankee, i think your guy's got his head up his ass.

ed

 

[rosebud5446]

well, is he ever going to pull his head out of his ass and grow up? what will it take for him to realize?

 

[Guest]

 

[rosebud5446]

well, we were living together... so yeah we were together alot... and i agree that we do need some time apart... i'm moving out this weekend, so i figured that would be enough space... not only that, but when we both are actually off work or school at the same time, and someone wants to go to a party or something, he still doesn't want to go unless i go, and he still wants to hang out with me alot.

it's just really bothering the shit out of me though, because even though i've been in love before... there's something about him... that feels different from any other guy

 

[M's girl]

Wanting to go to parties with you does not mean he does not need time and space at other times. It is right of him to tell you that and you need to listen. It is inmature of him to try to fix that by giving the whole relationship a kick in the ass. There are better ways, and probably more mature ones....

 

[TBKahuna123]

well, is he ever going to pull his head out of his ass and grow up? what will it take for him to realize?

Well does that just sum it all up ladies or what?

Scaly said it, actions speak louder than words. Who know swhat it will take, maybe not long, maybe a really long time. Who can say? I wa the opposite at that age, I was clingy, so I can't say what it will take. I can say this htough, I've known a few guys like this. Usually they come around only through patience from the female coutnerpart. On the brighter side, once they do they are as loyal as puppies!

I also think there might be something to hte fact aht you guys moved in together. Maybe it's not having a girlfriend, but living to gether that he's not ready for. The simple fact is that this sounds like a mental thing for him, nothing more. He just need sto work it out and pull his head out. If he really cares it will happen.

Like I said, it's taking a risk.

 

[SweetErika]

Well does that just sum it all up ladies or what?

Scaly said it, actions speak louder than words. Who know swhat it will take, maybe not long, maybe a really long time. Who can say? I wa the opposite at that age, I was clingy, so I can't say what it will take. I can say this htough, I've known a few guys like this. Usually they come around only through patience from the female coutnerpart. On the brighter side, once they do they are as loyal as puppies!

I also think there might be something to hte fact aht you guys moved in together. Maybe it's not having a girlfriend, but living to gether that he's not ready for. The simple fact is that this sounds like a mental thing for him, nothing more. He just need sto work it out and pull his head out. If he really cares it will happen.

Like I said, it's taking a risk.

Granted, the immature are selfish, but if it's a good relationship, shouldn't there be communication and compromise for both of their needs? It seems like Rosebud's getting the raw end of the deal here, while he's getting everything he wants, though perhaps I'm failing to see his concessions. Now she can certainly choose to take whatever he's offering, but because of the reasons she's mentioned, that smacks of 'unhealthy' and 'lack of respect' to me.

My personal opinion and experience has been that people tend to mature and figure out what they truly want when there are fewer distractions and conflicts. I remove myself from the situation (whether it's me figuring it out or them), take the time to gain perspective and work on stuff, and then we reassess at a later date. It's too consuming and hard to sort out any other way, and if the conclusion is to end or change the relationship, I feel somewhat prepared since I had time to sort through all of the options. If it's to get back together, I feel really good about the decision because it was made without pressure/influence, it's what we BOTH decided we really wanted, and it's kind of a fresh start.

I agree about moving in together being a potential cause of problems. It's tough for most to not feel pressured to become more committed once that happens, and can be disastrous. I'm positive it would have hurt hubby and I had we done so at such an early stage.

I hope it all works out the way you want it to, Rosebud.

 

[TBKahuna123]

Granted, the immature are selfish, but if it's a good relationship, shouldn't there be communication and compromise for both of their needs? It seems like Rosebud's getting the raw end of the deal here, while he's getting everything he wants, though perhaps I'm failing to see his concessions. Now she can certainly choose to take whatever he's offering, but because of the reasons she's mentioned, that smacks of 'unhealthy' and 'lack of respect' to me.

I agree Erika, but it seems that what he's giving isn't all that different from what he was giving before. This is what I mean, there isn't like he's doing half as much, or running off to do more for himself. By Rosebud's accounts, he's just as attentive or mabye more so, than he was before their "break-up". This is what makes me think that it's just a silly mental thing, something that will work itself out.

Now I hesitate to say this because I don't like ultimatums or sex as a weapon, etc, but I'll lay this out. At some point, she may have to say enough is enough. At some point she's going to have to sit down and say, listen, we need to talk. This is how it would play out in my mind. She say we aren't boyfriend/girlfriend, but we act just like we always did, and this makes me wonder where the hell I stand. What's the deal? Are you just waiting for something better to come along? If he says no, then she has to tell him that this shows a lack of respect. He'll be appalled that she would feel this way, he'll spill the beans that it's just him being stupid, and they'll start officially going out again. He'll probably over compensate and ask her to move back in, which she should decline. Let it build up to that again slowly.

At least that's how it is in my dream world. I think Rosebud needs to give him time to figure this out, and as long as he is treating her well and there is something for her in the friendship, I would let it go. Not too long though, because at some point he has to pull his head out. If it reaches a period of time where he gets too comfortable with the situation, then Rosebud should shake things up. Be careful though, you want to come at him firm, but not harsh. Don't call him a stupid asshole, tell him he's making you feel bad. Don't tell him his head is up his ass, tell him that the current situation just isn't working for you. Give him a problem that he can solve, let him see the solution is simply to pull his head out and mature up. Don't tell him to do it though, prod him to see it for himself.

Did that make any sense?

 

[pplwatching]

By Rosebud's accounts, he's just as attentive or mabye more so, than he was before their "break-up". This is what makes me think that it's just a silly mental thing, something that will work itself out.

Maybe I'm just too pragmatic, however this person went out of his way to tell Rosebud that he doesn't want her to be his girlfriend. If that isn't a show stopper, then I don't know what is. He didn't come back and say, "You know what? I was a fool. I really do want you to be my girlfriend". In the actions-speak-louder-than-words world, this is the thing that really sticks out.

IHMO all of the attention, rose petals, chocolates, etc are nothing more than nice gestures designed to smooth over any ruffled feathers and hurt feelings. He's feeling guilty that he really enjoys your company, and having sex with you, but that he really doesn't want a committed relationship with you.

It's not uncommon to really enjoy someon's company, but not want to seriously date them. Relationships like that drag on for years, until one day you realize that you don't want to be used any more.

Breaking up is never easy. In the best light, while you're living with him he just doesn't know how to rectify not wanting a relationship with enjoying your favors, so he's being extra attentive. Maybe to ease your heartbreak, maybe to ease his guilt that you feel heartbroken. In the worst light, he doesn't want to commit to you, but he's afraid that you'll reject him ... so he's doing what he can to make sure that you don't reject him while he's still living with you.

The fact that he said he doesn't want to have sex with anyone but you is worth just about the paper it's written on. Would you still have sex with him if he told you he wanted to have sex with other people? Just prepare yourself for the day that you find him with another woman, and he says "I told you I didn't want you to be my girlfriend."

This is his way of adding a loophole to your relationship. This person wants all of the trappings of a comitted relationship, but also want's to be able to say "I told you we weren't dating any more" whenever he wants to. You want all of the trappings of a relationship, and want to be able to feel secure. The two are not compatible, and you need to move on. Otherwise, you'll spend your nights worrying that he's really yours and it will eat you up inside.

I think that you need to evaluate your sense of self worth, rather than his motives. You deserve better than a man who doesn't want to acknowledge you as his girlfriend (but still wants to sleep with you). You've written a bit about how this makes you feel already. Here's an exercise : You're at a party. He's introducing you to a very attractive woman that he's been talking to. He says, "Kitten, I'd like to introduce you to a *friend* of mine, Rosebud ..." Not, "my girlfriend". How are you going to feel?

You are not a second hand citizen in this relationship unless you choose to be. You deserve a relationship on your own terms. This relationship is unhealthy and you need to move on.

Good luck

 

[SweetErika]

Now I hesitate to say this because I don't like ultimatums or sex as a weapon, etc, but I'll lay this out. At some point, she may have to say enough is enough.

I agree...sex as a weapon and ultimatums are bad. There's definitely a difference between using it as a weapon and taking care of yourself, and I think what you've laid out here is clearly the latter, especially given your suggested phrasing, TBK. Saying, "I'm not going to have sex with you until you commit" is very different than, "Having sex without commitment isn't working for me. I need and deserve better than the current situation, with you, or anyone else." Like we've all said in so many other threads, it's all about the motives/intent.

Maybe I'm just too pragmatic, however this person went out of his way to tell Rosebud that he doesn't want her to be his girlfriend. If that isn't a show stopper, then I don't know what is. He didn't come back and say, "You know what? I was a fool. I really do want you to be my girlfriend". In the actions-speak-louder-than-words world, this is the thing that really sticks out.

IHMO all of the attention, rose petals, chocolates, etc are nothing more than nice gestures designed to smooth over any ruffled feathers and hurt feelings. He's feeling guilty that he really enjoys your company, and having sex with you, but that he really doesn't want a committed relationship with you.

It's not uncommon to really enjoy someon's company, but not want to seriously date them. Relationships like that drag on for years, until one day you realize that you don't want to be used any more.

Breaking up is never easy. In the best light, while you're living with him he just doesn't know how to rectify not wanting a relationship with enjoying your favors, so he's being extra attentive. Maybe to ease your heartbreak, maybe to ease his guilt that you feel heartbroken. In the worst light, he doesn't want to commit to you, but he's afraid that you'll reject him ... so he's doing what he can to make sure that you don't reject him while he's still living with you.

The fact that he said he doesn't want to have sex with anyone but you is worth just about the paper it's written on. Would you still have sex with him if he told you he wanted to have sex with other people? Just prepare yourself for the day that you find him with another woman, and he says "I told you I didn't want you to be my girlfriend."

This is his way of adding a loophole to your relationship. This person wants all of the trappings of a comitted relationship, but also want's to be able to say "I told you we weren't dating any more" whenever he wants to. You want all of the trappings of a relationship, and want to be able to feel secure. The two are not compatible, and you need to move on. Otherwise, you'll spend your nights worrying that he's really yours and it will eat you up inside.

I think that you need to evaluate your sense of self worth, rather than his motives. You deserve better than a man who doesn't want to acknowledge you as his girlfriend (but still wants to sleep with you). You've written a bit about how this makes you feel already. Here's an exercise : You're at a party. He's introducing you to a very attractive woman that he's been talking to. He says, "Kitten, I'd like to introduce you to a *friend* of mine, Rosebud ..." Not, "my girlfriend". How are you going to feel?

You are not a second hand citizen in this relationship unless you choose to be. You deserve a relationship on your own terms. This relationship is unhealthy and you need to move on.

Good luck

Very well said. Far too many of us hear and understand this way too late, or never, resulting in a ton of pain and inability to improve our self-esteem.

 

[rosebud5446]

all of this ambiguosity (is that a word?) has really been nagging at me lately...we started talking... it turned into an argument... he said he has 2 sides, and one really wants to be with me, and the other is unsure... blah blah blah..and decided, even though we really love eachother, it's an unhealthy relationship, and is based alot on sex, and what we both really need right now is 'me' time, to find out more about ourselves and whatnot. he said mabye in the future we will decide that we want to and can have a healthy relationship, but for now... just friends.

 

[SweetErika]

all of this ambiguosity (is that a word?) has really been nagging at me lately...we started talking... it turned into an argument... he said he has 2 sides, and one really wants to be with me, and the other is unsure... blah blah blah..and decided, even though we really love eachother, it's an unhealthy relationship, and is based alot on sex, and what we both really need right now is 'me' time, to find out more about ourselves and whatnot. he said mabye in the future we will decide that we want to and can have a healthy relationship, but for now... just friends.

I'm sorry to hear it was heated, but you're right about it being better without the ambiguity (that's the word ) and all of that heartache in the future. The point about needing "me time" right now is a very good one, and while it's tough to swallow at this point, I'm sure you'll find it WILL make your relationship with him or anyone else far healthier. You both did the right thing, and it's great you've been able to preserve your friendship!

 

[pplwatching]

even though we really love eachother, it's an unhealthy relationship, and is based alot on sex, and what we both really need right now is 'me' time, to find out more about ourselves and whatnot. he said mabye in the future we will decide that we want to and can have a healthy relationship, but for now... just friends.

Why do I get the feeling the 'we both really need "me" time" are his words, as in "you need this too".

If you want some hard learned advice, forget about just friends. Make it a clean break. Get in touch with your feelings, and start looking for what you want. If you hang out with him, you'll always be holding out hope. You'll also be cheating future beau's out of a total commitment from you because you'll always be keeping the embers warm for him.

Things will only get messy from here if you keep seeing him.

 

[rosebud5446]

i have been friends with him for 5 years. i'm not going to stop now. i've always been friends with ex's. if you can't still be friends with an ex, in my opionion, it is immature.

 

[Eilan]

if you can't still be friends with an ex, in my opionion, it is immature.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

My ex-husband and I started dating when we were in our late teens. We had, up until that point, been very good friends; our friendship started in elementary school. By the time we parted ways, however, I felt too hurt and betrayed to maintain a friendship with him.

Because we have two small children, we have a very cordial working relationship. But it's not, nor will it ever again be (in my view, at least), a friendship.

 

[ickle_stace]

i have been friends with him for 5 years. i'm not going to stop now. i've always been friends with ex's. if you can't still be friends with an ex, in my opionion, it is immature.

sometimes you might have been hurt too badly that you just don't want to be or can be friends with your exes

 

[rosebud5446]

ok, i was a little blunt with my opinion on friends with ex's... i believe in MANY cases, you schould be able to continue a friendship... i understand that there are circumstances where one or both parties would feel too hurt to remain in a friendship, at least for a little while. but i feel in my case, neither of us did anything to purposfully hurt the other, and we don't see why we can't still be friends.

 

[rosebud5446]

okay... i'm moving out tommorrow, and i'm starting to realize what's going on... my heart is breaking. and i don't know what to do. the last time i had my heart broken, someone VERY close to me died like 2 days later, so that made the fact that i jsut broke up with my first love a little less important. now i don't know what the fuck to do... i'm going to be in this appartment all by myself... i don't know when i'm going to get internet or cable, and i don't even have a stereo, so even if i find something to do vesides twiddle my thumbs, i'm going to be going crazy from the silence... i also keep having these dreams that he is hooking up with other girls. word has gone 'round that we broke up and now all these slutty girls are trash talking me and trying to pick him up and it hurts really bad...

 

[Guest]

 

[pplwatching]

i've always been friends with ex's. if you can't still be friends with an ex, in my opionion, it is immature.

I suppose I'm drawing a line in the sand between remaining on friendly terms and spending significant amounts of time with each other. I have never been able to go to parties and hang out together without agonizing over wether or not there's some embers still burning. It has been my personal experience that making a clean break is the best way to go.

I'm sorry that you have to go through this.

 

[pplwatching]

i'm going to be in this appartment all by myself... i don't know when i'm going to get internet or cable, and i don't even have a stereo, so even if i find something to do vesides twiddle my thumbs, i'm going to be going crazy from the silence...

This may sound cliche, but find something that you like to do and then go find other folks who like to do it too. Join a book club, volunteer, take classes on how to install tile at the hardware store.

In the immortal words of <my memory is not that good :-> "This too shall pass."

 

[onlyerics]

okay... i'm moving out tommorrow, and i'm starting to realize what's going on... my heart is breaking. and i don't know what to do. the last time i had my heart broken, someone VERY close to me died like 2 days later, so that made the fact that i jsut broke up with my first love a little less important. now i don't know what the fuck to do... i'm going to be in this appartment all by myself... i don't know when i'm going to get internet or cable, and i don't even have a stereo, so even if i find something to do vesides twiddle my thumbs, i'm going to be going crazy from the silence... i also keep having these dreams that he is hooking up with other girls. word has gone 'round that we broke up and now all these slutty girls are trash talking me and trying to pick him up and it hurts really bad...

Rosebud: I have been following this thread since the beginning. I just didn't respond because everyone here has been giving here has been giving you some good advice, and they are supporting you in every way. I'm sorry you are going through a difficult time.
So you're going to be by yourself in your apartment...well, I'm sure that at first, you'll be arranging or moving your things around so settling into your place will probably keep you busy. Maybe you have a hobby or something to at least keep your mind distracted. If it gets too lonely at your place, then go out and do something.
Anyway, you've probably moved out by now...and it might be awhile before you get internet, but just remember...we'll be here when you come back.
(((HUGS))))

 

[Mitsouko]

Rosebud,

I wish you didn't have to go through this.
Living alone isn't so bad, I actually prefer it.
Heart break is still heartbreak though, and I am joining you in that this week so you aren't alone there.

I hope you feel better, but I know it will take time.

Mitsouko

 

[Guest]

 

[rosebud5446]

eh... i'm moving out today. packing really sucked. we talked about how we were going to miss eachother last night... i think he even cried a little... and of course i did... i'm just pretty bummed out about the whole thing... i don't think i'll have internet, but i'll try to come here as often as i can... i need my lit fix!