Some thoughts on online disagreements

[SimonDoom]

I'll point it out to you.



Actually it is far more likely that this thread was started in response to the LW 1-bomb thread where Iwrotethis abandoned his stance to personally attack and insult me repeatedly calling me stupid. I defended myself. Then the mod stepped in and made a mess. I talked to the mod, he apologized, went back and deleted some more to try to make it fair (I respect that). Then Iwrotethis continued to attack and disparage me personally. And then went even further, Iwrotethis started taking shots at me in a completely different thread. Now that's fucking petty. Somehow, this makes the two of us equal bickering cunts. No, there is only one cunt in that exchange. But no one cares to check the details, they just paint the both of us the same.

So about the OP, he's in the room we can call him by name, StillStunned starts this thread to call out anyone who bickers, as if he has never done it himself. Well, on at least two occasions that I care to remember he has treated me very similarly to how Iwrotethis this has this week, doubling down, abandoning his stance to take sarcastic personal shots at me. So, someone claiming a higher ground stance that he won't bicker yet has proven to do so in the past, yeah, that could easily be construed as passive-agg. Others may not agree but you can't deny that it's at least a presentable case.

In fairness, despite StillStunned's attitude toward me on occasion, I usually find him quite respectful around here for the most part and hardly hardly among the bad offenders in the AH. Knowing that he is the quickest to serve up lovely framed hotlinks to his own works as examples of good writing whenever certain writing topics come up, those rare times when he does get snooty and pissy are probably just him having one of his arrogant moments. I can give him a pass. He's not the biggest snob here. That would be Duleigh. StillStunned isn't 2nd nor 3rd neither.

I think many of us have had moments here that we would take back. I have. It doesn't take away the usefulness of a thread like this, or the value of reminding ourselves, despite our lapses, that we can do better. This thread also offers some useful thoughts on HOW we can do better.

 

[Djmac1031]

I've quoted this song often whenever the topic of online debates / arguments come up, because it succinctly sums up my thoughts on the whole thing after many years on the internet:

"I believe I've passed the age
Of consciousness and righteous rage,
I found that just surviving was a noble fight.
I once believed in causes too,
I had my pointless point of view,
And life went on no matter who was wrong or right..."

Billy Joel - "Angry Young Man"

 

[SimonDoom]

This one does happen. Happened to me recently. It's something you have to accept will happen from time to time if you're going to talk in a forum.

I've been in some spirited disagreements with people, but I can say most of them in the AH never led to my stories being bombed, so when it does happen as you're arguing with the person, it's easy to see. You mark that person down as someone who takes their revenge by damaging your rating, but you don't let that stop you from calling them out on BS again, you just live with it and trust in the sweeps to fix things later.

I'm curious how you would know that you had been bombed as a result of speaking in the forum. Your stories have very high view numbers, which I would think would make it difficult to tell, unless you are monitoring on a constant basis, when you are getting bombed, and whether it's linked in some way to something you said in the forum.

I've wondered sometimes if my stories have been bombed because of participation in this forum, but I've never seen strong enough evidence of it to think about it much, so I don't.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I think many of us have had moments here that we would take back. I have. It doesn't take away the usefulness of a thread like this, or the value of reminding ourselves, despite our lapses, that we can do better. This thread also offers some useful thoughts on HOW we can do better.

I don't disagree with that. Like at all. I'm just pointing out that there is logic behind the assertion that it could be seen as passive-agg.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't disagree with that. Like at all. I'm just pointing out that there is logic behind the assertion that it could be seen as passive-agg.

I understand. But in keeping with the tone of this thread, while one CAN see the thread as being passive-aggressive, one also can choose not to. It's a choice, and that choice to some degree determines the level of civility we show toward one another in this forum. One of the ways to have better conversation is to avoid interpreting the other person's post in the most negative way possible.

 

[crookedletter]

When you see a call for peace as a personal attack...

... that's maybe something you should get looked at.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I understand. But in keeping with the tone of this thread, while one CAN see the thread as being passive-aggressive, one also can choose not to. It's a choice, and that choice to some degree determines the level of civility we show toward one another in this forum. One of the ways to have better conversation is to avoid interpreting the other person's post in the most negative way possible.

Well, that's a far cry from where you originally stood, when you 'didnt know where to start'. Forgive me for misunderstanding you.

 

[SimonDoom]

Well, that's a far cry from where you originally stood, when you 'didnt know where to start'. Forgive me for misunderstanding you.

I was being sarcastic, responding to a post that claimed to accuse others of being passive aggressive while demonstrating an extraordinary level of un-self aware passive aggressiveness itself. I had written a long reply, but thought better of it and deleted it.

I suppose one could accuse me of running afoul of the spirit of the thread by being sarcastic, but I think I was responding to the post itself, on its face, rather than the underlying motive of it.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I was being sarcastic, responding to a post that claimed to accuse others of being passive aggressive while demonstrating an extraordinary level of un-self aware passive aggressiveness itself. I had written a long reply, but thought better of it and deleted it.

I suppose one could accuse me of running afoul of the spirit of the thread by being sarcastic, but I think I was responding to the post itself, on its face, rather than the underlying motive of it.

He had some aggression certainly, but he was hardly being passive.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Come on Simon, I believe in you. You can do it!

 

[SimonDoom]

Come on Simon, I believe in you. You can do it!

I think in the spirit of this thread, I'm going to just say:

Be excellent to each other.

 

[MrHereWriting]

I'm curious how you would know that you had been bombed as a result of speaking in the forum. Your stories have very high view numbers, which I would think would make it difficult to tell, unless you are monitoring on a constant basis, when you are getting bombed, and whether it's linked in some way to something you said in the forum.

I've wondered sometimes if my stories have been bombed because of participation in this forum, but I've never seen strong enough evidence of it to think about it much, so I don't.

For a guy who asked me not to talk to him because I was 'too mean' (which I would call me being 'blunt') you can't help yourself from asking me questions from time to time.

This will be the last response I give you until you let me know you've gotten over how sensitive you are.

When I'm on the forum I have my story page up on another screen. Within the time frame of the "conversation" I was having, my scores dropped by .01 on most of my highest rated stories. The highest rated needed needed more than one. I don't know how many more, but definitely more.. Some got knocked down more than .01.

But, whenever I get into a disagreement with someone new to me, I'm always curious how they will respond outside of the forum.

 

[SimonDoom]

For a guy who asked me not to talk to him because I was 'too mean' (which I would call me being 'blunt') you can't help yourself from asking me questions from time to time.

This will be the last response I give you until you let me know you've gotten over how sensitive you are.

When I'm on the forum I have my story page up on another screen. Within the time frame of the "conversation" I was having, my scores dropped by .01 on most of my highest rated stories. The highest rated needed needed more than one. I don't know how many more, but definitely more.. Some got knocked down more than .01.

But, whenever I get into a disagreement with someone new to me, I'm always curious how they will respond outside of the forum.

I don't think I'm particularly sensitive.

It's been a long time since our exchange, and I don't recall the details. My recollection is I felt you were being needlessly adversarial in your communications, picking fights you didn't have to pick (the subject of this thread), and I didn't want to deal with that.

I don't hold grudges, so whatever that was, I'm willing to let it go.

 

[MrHereWriting]

I don't think I'm particularly sensitive.

It's been a long time since our exchange, and I don't recall the details. My recollection is I felt you were being needlessly adversarial in your communications, picking fights you didn't have to pick (the subject of this thread), and I didn't want to deal with that.

I don't hold grudges, so whatever that was, I'm willing to let it go.

That works for me.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

When I'm on the forum I have my story page up on another screen. Within the time frame of the "conversation" I was having, my scores dropped by .01 on most of my highest rated stories. The highest rated needed needed more than one. I don't know how many more, but definitely more.. Some got knocked down more than .01.

Any relevant correlation between the two is E_X_T_R_E_M_E_L_Y unlikely.

At any given moment, there a couple of dozen active here on the forum and literally thousands on the story side. Also, vote/scores/ratings do not display in real time. There is a period of at least many minutes if not a few hours between the action and the display.

 

[MrHereWriting]

Any relevant correlation between the two is E_X_T_R_E_M_E_L_Y unlikely.

I don't believe in this kind of coincidence, especially when my most liked story was steady at its rating for probably a year.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

Be excellent to each other.

And party on dudes

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Beliefs often don't match reality.

 

[MrHereWriting]

Beliefs often don't match reality.

They don't match your perception of reality, but while the updates are not quick on the top lists, they are quick on your homepage.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

If you so insist.

Your vision is the most perfect of all and no others are of value.

 

[MrHereWriting]

If you so insist.

Your vision is the most perfect of all and no others are of value.

Remember, that's you saying that, not me.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I understand. But in keeping with the tone of this thread, while one CAN see the thread as being passive-aggressive, one also can choose not to. It's a choice, and that choice to some degree determines the level of civility we show toward one another in this forum. One of the ways to have better conversation is to avoid interpreting the other person's post in the most negative way possible.

I agree with this sentiment in general, but I think there's a lot of difference among us here about what it means to be civil to each other.

 

[SimonDoom]

I agree with this sentiment in general, but I think there's a lot of difference among us here about what it means to be civil to each other.

True, and probably inevitable. I doubt we'll ever get complete agreement on that.

For instance, humor can be a bone of contention. What seems pleasantly humorous to one person might seem like mean snark to another.

 

[AG31]

Debated doing this, then figured, what the hell, I always say how I feel so this shouldn't be different.

I can't help but notice this thread was started after the "You might be an AHer if..." Thread. And we not only have this thread but the OP's AI thread that now as "and a refuge from bickering" added to it.

Funny how the OP has no issue with his friends here bullying people, snarking at people in their clever passive aggressive way where they make funny little remarks without mentioning names and if that person says something then its "Oh, get over yourself, we weren't talking about you." Let alone their crude views of other people that they think are okay because they're always the victim in their mind. Of what? Have to ask them for that story.

But they don't like it when it's done to them. The Aher thread and my "types of writer' thread, funny who was absent from that one even though the view count said a lot more people looked at it than people who were willing to post on it because they weren't butthurt over it. Thing is in that thread there was a second video about types of readers I thought fit this place to a T and would be fun, but not one mention of that one, just the first one because oh, no, someone might be thinking I'm one of those types.

Now we get this condescending "Let's talk about arguing". No, let's talk about the bad behavior of this forum that's okay if their friends are doing it, but not okay to have the mirror held up to them. The OP has often run into a thread where one of their friends has been attacking someone and done the "Oh, they didn't mean it that way" Right.

I grew up pre-social media (and am more thankful for that every day as time goes on) I'm from the time-and a family-that was confrontational. You have something to say, say it, but you had to be careful because face to face there were actual consequences, not mad face emojis as a reaction.

I'd rather someone get in my face, call me a prick, an asshole, say all manner of nasty things and tell me to fuck off, then the childish things that go on here with the forum superstars (who insist they're just the nicest people) and the reason for that is simple. Telling someone off is an honest human reaction and very real and leaves no doubt as to how you feel.

But here, and I suppose a lot of places online, we get this. Someone is mad about something some people posted. Maybe mad their friends were on the butt end of some how do you like it? And instead of being honest we get "Let's talk about online disagreements." Which IMO translates into 'Let us sling it, but don't do it back to us."

Every action has a reaction and if your action is to dig at people-or be the one who condones it based on who it is- then that tends to come back around.

There are a few folks-and I feel its a minority but by far the most vocal-here with an attitude of I'm better you, both as a writer and a person. Newsflash, you're not, and neither am I or anyone else, difference is most of use realize that.

Feel free to disagree with everything I said, after all, that's what this thread is "ahem" supposed to be about. I mean what I say and admit to sometimes saying it mean (In reality just kind of blunt but that's mean to a lot of people these days) like it or don't, just like I can like what someone says or not. But that's how it is and this lecture posed as a thread won't change that.

I can't tie this to reality in any way.

 

[AG31]

You end up with pages of enervating, low grade drivel punctuated by occasional biting wit and attempts by others to raise the tone until they eventually give up and wander off to contemplate the futility of existence.

It seems like the participants must be getting something out of it, maybe just having fun. Why do you read pages of what, to you, is drivel?