Some thoughts on online disagreements

[KittyOfSteele]

What you like is debating, not arguing.

Which is precisely what’s needed - good faith debate where nobody “needs” to win - more get to a place where mutual understanding is possible.

It's utopian. Everyone online is performing for an audience, including us. The Internet is nothing but a shower where people don't rehearse their deadly one-liners as we leave them like engravings on Pompeii. Winning is what makes us look good, not having an understanding.

 

[ChuckWolf]

When I come to this site, it's for the purpose of exploring erotic stories, etc,, not looking for drama.

On other sites/apps like Twitter, I'll get into it with someone, provided they have more than a 100 followers and are not a bot.

Once I feel I've made my point, I usually disengage from the argument/discussion.

 

[SimonDoom]

What you like is debating, not arguing.

Which is precisely what’s needed - good faith debate where nobody “needs” to win - more get to a place where mutual understanding is possible.

Well said, and you're right. I have a lot of debate experience. You don't have to win a debate to get something out of it, to appreciate a good argument for its own sake, to appreciate an argument made with wit and humor, or to appreciate that there are many ways to look at something. You don't have to think all those ways are right to nevertheless believe that there's a positive good that comes with them being expressed.

 

[BellaBestia]

I don't know about that. I don't even know what ignorance we are talking about.

Sorry I was speaking from my own experience. For once I am blissfully ignorant of the background impetus for this thread. For a split second I considered searching back on posts from the last 24 hours that were drama-flavoured, but then said to myself “nah, I’ve got crosswords to complete”.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Well, hum. I've got nuttin to say.

Sorry I was speaking from my own experience. For once I am blissfully ignorant of the background impetus for this thread. For a split second I considered searching back on posts from the last 24 hours that were drama-flavoured, but then said to myself “nah, I’ve got crosswords to complete”.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Also, avoid people asking, "Why?" they're not likely to get it no matter how you explain.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Oh, my kid is in that why stage. Very irritating. Why do we do dishes every night? They won't get clean if we don't wash them. Why not? And on and on we go.

Edit: I mistakenly indicated I had kids, not a kid.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Oh god, at least they haven't watched Dogman and so ask why to absofreakinlutely everything. After about the fourth repetition I tend to pull a Mindy and say, "Okay, I love you, bye bye!"

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I tend to avoid arguments, and I'll bow out if somebody just ain't trying to understand and being a bad player.

 

[Bramblethorn]

What you like is debating, not arguing.

This isn't an argument, this is just contradiction.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Oh, my kids are in that why stage. Very irritating. Why do we do dishes every night? They won't get clean if we don't wash them. Why not? And on and on we go.

Ah, kids and their questions.

 

[SimonDoom]

This isn't an argument, this is just contradiction.

No, it isn't!

 

[Erozetta]

I'm in a constant online and phone debate with a friend right now on canon vs fanon. It's been going on off and on for like a year and a half. He's irritated with me because my stance is basically "It doesn't matter what I think because I don't own the rights to change what is done with the intellectual property." And his take is "fan takes are as important and sometimes more important than official takes." Which I don't disagree with, but only matters to fans and has no bearing on official canon.

He'll never change my opinion that "It doesn't.matter what we as fans think, we don't control canon" and I'll never change his opinion that "fanon is sometimes more valid than the officially accepted canon." But, I don't think either of us is actually trying to change the other's opinion. We just both want to be heard and understood and we talk around the points we disagree on rather than anything we agree on because agreeing constantly is boring.

We both get lively and heated, we know the other's opinion, we understand each other's stance, we just like to debate each other. The funny thing is I know he hates my stance and I know he knows I don't fully disagree with him, I just go a step further with "yeah, but it doesn't matter because we don't own the rights to change anything. Best we can do is boycott it and not engage, but just by having this conversation we are engaging as they want us to."

Sometimes arguments are just about connecting through an ability to disagree and maintain a relationship that doesn't get damaged by that disagreement.

(And sometimes it's about pushing buttons that are easily pushed once a weakness is shown.)

 

[StillStunned]

I've got several threads where there's the beginnings of a message that I can't get rid of, like a dead skink the cat found and brought in.

Delete the text, wait for the "save" icon to flash a green dot, then hit refresh. It should stay deleted then.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Delete the text, wait for the "save" icon to flash a green dot, then hit refresh. It should stay deleted then.

Thanks, I'll try that - next time I think, nah, best not send that!

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Delete the text, wait for the "save" icon to flash a green dot, then hit refresh. It should stay deleted then.

I believe that you can click the save icon yourself too, no?

 

[ElectricBlue]

I believe that you can click the save icon yourself too, no?

Shit eh! I didn't even know there was a Save icon. It's on the second row on my device, but it's usually hidden.

And now, it looks like the second row of icons is permanent!

 

[StillStunned]

I believe that you can click the save icon yourself too, no?

Probably, but I've never had to wait more than a few seconds for the autosave anyway.

 

[redgarters]

Generally I agree that an online debate can be just that, a debate. Don't get personal, don't let it make you angry, and even if it does, try to be factual and polite. I've worked in fields that require some kind of debate or even argument pretty much all my life. I've also taught kids debate and tried to have them absorb all those rules.

But some things are personal. Very personal. Personal to the point that they threaten the existence of the people you love, and the "debate" for debate's sake is actually harming people. That's where the debate changes for me. That's where I draw the line. I still try to be fact based, and polite and not attack other people, because that won't change anyone's mind about anything, but it's no more about being able to 'agree to disagree'. And that's where all those rules about a nice debate can go out the window.

“We can disagree and still love each other, unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my (or my kids/friends/fellow humans) humanity and right to exist.”

In forums like here I avoid the political forum, because of this, and because I get enough of that shit elsewhere in my life. Here, I try to leave threads that pierce those lines alone. I'll admit that I'm not always successful.

Not trying to start anything here, just explaining my reality.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Don't particularly like Louis C.K., but that doesn't mean he isn't funny. He's just an all-around terrible person. But at least he didn't lie about what happened.

Ah, kids and their questions.

 

[IWroteThis]

4. Bomb their catalog of stories.

Gee, how ironic that you turn out to be a 1* bombing troll like you rail against. Color me not surprised. For the record, I actually laughed when I saw my scores drop across the board.

So far, I've had two people confess, and I hope @Laurel kicks them both to the curb.

 

[IWroteThis]

I don’t agree. I’ve seen this kind of reasoning here before, trying to derive meaning from people not saying something or not posting in some threads, and it’s utterly ridiculous. Number one reason that I’m not commenting on thread X is that I’m busy picking my nose, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread in question. It’s hard enough to figure out people’s motivations when they’re doing their best to tell you, having a guessing game when they’re absent is just nonsense.

Do some people actually read every thread here? Sometimes the title is interesting enough to just click on it, but usually when one catches my attention I hover over it and read the blurb shown. I doubt I open more than 5-10% of threads.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I'm in a constant online and phone debate with a friend right now on canon vs fanon. It's been going on off and on for like a year and a half. He's irritated with me because my stance is basically "It doesn't matter what I think because I don't own the rights to change what is done with the intellectual property." And his take is "fan takes are as important and sometimes more important than official takes." Which I don't disagree with, but only matters to fans and has no bearing on official canon.

He'll never change my opinion that "It doesn't.matter what we as fans think, we don't control canon" and I'll never change his opinion that "fanon is sometimes more valid than the officially accepted canon." But, I don't think either of us is actually trying to change the other's opinion. We just both want to be heard and understood and we talk around the points we disagree on rather than anything we agree on because agreeing constantly is boring.

We both get lively and heated, we know the other's opinion, we understand each other's stance, we just like to debate each other. The funny thing is I know he hates my stance and I know he knows I don't fully disagree with him, I just go a step further with "yeah, but it doesn't matter because we don't own the rights to change anything. Best we can do is boycott it and not engage, but just by having this conversation we are engaging as they want us to."

Sometimes arguments are just about connecting through an ability to disagree and maintain a relationship that doesn't get damaged by that disagreement.

(And sometimes it's about pushing buttons that are easily pushed once a weakness is shown.)

I also have some ongoing debates with a couple of friends that don't seem to result in either side changing opinion, but even though it seems that it's pointless to keep on debating, I don't think that's true in general.

As long as the debate is rational, there will always be some new arguments and facts that can be introduced that should result in the other side conceding the point, at least partially, or coming up with counter-arguments. As a rule, debating about a topic makes one think deeply about the issue. It forces a thought process rather than just picking a stance based on emotions.

Of course, many debates in real life aren't rational, let alone when it comes to online debates, where each side mostly just wants to get one up over the other side. Still, even those aren't entirely useless. It's just a matter of time and effort one wants to invest in them.

In the AH, I'd say there isn't much point debating. Most people aren't here for rational reasons.

 

[Baztrachian]

The 1s are on permanent Ignore.

Wisdom and Peace may be found in the judicious application of the Ignore button.

 

[IWroteThis]

It might be tempting (and based on the evidence, it's safe to say that it *is* tempting) to counter the other poster's statement, wait for them to reply, then respond again, and so on. Like mountain goats butting heads, or (to use a less flattering comparison) like toddlers in the playground.

Here's the thing: in all the history of the Internet and online forums, never once* has someone said, "You know what, you're right, I'm wrong. You've convinced me."

Your conclusion is correct, but I disagree with your philosophy. It's not really about winning. It's about letting it all out.

In my years of experience, I've found the value of cathartic release. It appears to me that grudges tend to stem from the lack of such release, allowing the pressure to build-up. When you get it all out and move on, it's over. When you bottle it up and pretend it's over, it's not really over.

I've had some pretty mean looking disagreements in my day, then laughed and joked with the same person the next day. I've also been forced to walk away with the issue unresolved, and I still avoid being in the same room with some of them.