Someone doesn't know their Poetry..

[Guest]

Well, the reason that I said that I disagreed with the comment that it didn't meet the criteria is that I have seen haiku that do NOT include nature. It does fit the comparison technique in which the lines of the poem are all talking about one specific event.

I do appreciate everyone who has come to my defense in this thread and all who have said that they liked it.

I did not feel tagged or attacked, however having the poem voted down because it's too short or because one thought it not a real haiku... well, it is a little irksome. One would wish that readers would vote on soley the content and merit of the work itself, but we all know that there are readers out there who vote things up or down for their own reasons and not necessarily based on the story's (poem's) merit.

It's kind of funny that most of the poems that I wrote that I thought were decent and were either based on something that actually happened to me (for example, the wreck 1 & 2) or on feelings I have for the way I would like things to be between hubby and me have lower scores (on average) than the ones that I wrote just for fun. Oh well, I needed to write poems for the Survivor Contest, but I still wanted them to be decent and received well. I do hope that most readers get some enjoyment out of them or at least understand what they mean.

 

[jthserra]

forwhosesake?

You poet-persons (and I am one) are way too harsh. A haiku on Lit. should not be judged like one in Japan or for a literary journal. I call mine haiku-like. Crimson was into the spirit of the thing forfucksake.

Perdita

LOL... How should I vote on a haiku, or anything written here for that matter? I would not presume any writer here is weak enough that I would need to pad their score.

While, given the poem it is based upon, I found the title of this thread ironic, I did not comment here in an attempt to attack or belittle the poet. My comment, reaffirming Dirty Sluts post, was to simply say, there is more to haiku than syllable count.

I then offered several internet links for anyone interested in investigating haiku further and then explained why, based upon the information outlined at those links and my understanding of haiku, I voted a comparatively low score on the haiku I read.

Fully understanding that modern haiku sometimes drift away from predominately nature based content, I did not base my evaluation of the poem on the fact it wasn't nature based. There were a number of other things that led me to vote a 2 instead of a 3 or 4 on the poem.

With regard to judging this poem as a haiku, what else am I to do. If the poem had not been identified as a haiku, then my low vote may be off base, but, then the comments regarding the length of the poem being too short would then be valid. While I feel that nothing someone writes can be too short (yes, even that single word sex poem could possibly have merit), if the poem had not been identified as haiku, why would the comment saying the poem was too short be incorrect? It would be that person's opinion.

Again, CrimsonMaiden, my comments were directed to the haiku you wrote and not you. If you would like to learn more about haiku, please check out the links I provided earlier in this thread, or watch for some articles I will post under How To? here at Lit. (I am also posting survivor contest entries and I am limited on what erotic prose I have written), or simply PM me with any questions.

If you don't have the time or interest in haiku to persue it any further, I understand. I have to remind myself that I often get overenthusiastic about haiku.

If anyone else is interested in haiku, or the other Japanese poetry forms and want more information, let me know. I can turn you on to a number of internet sites and books on the subject.

For those of you who could care less, please forgive my exuberance. I just tend to get excited around haiku...


jim

 

[Guest]

Re: forwhosesake?

I just tend to get excited around haiku...

I'll remember that

Perdita

 

[sweetnpetite]

I think you are wrong to tag Cm for the content. While traditional haiku is about nature more often than not, nature isn't all that erotic. She is writing erotic haiku. That is haiku form with erotic content. For 17 syllables she did well I think.

-Colly

well, I think that nature is highly erotic. why do ya think they call it the 'birds and the bees' ??!

Leslie Neilson (that guy from airplain) had this line in a nature movie he was narrating- something about a taste of nector and a 'naughty little quid pro quo' he made nature seem downright obscene -- not neccisarily the same as erotic but nonetheless

 

[sweetnpetite]

I'm with Mckenna, I just don't see how you can do too much to make haiku erotic. Perhaps I am not normal, but it takes more than 17 syllables to get me going I think.

On the other hand, Cm's was pretty good

-Colly

CM, good poem. Weather it fit perfectly into the guidelines (which obviously are somewhat contraversial amoung the literary community) obviously, one should expect something called hiku to be short. I think it would be better if lit framed short peoms with a little more white space. What would it hurt? JMO

Colly, I need a spell check on this- but what do you think?


Arousal

Dew trickeling down
Over Calla Lilly folds
moist and glistening

--by SweetnPetite


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[Guest]

Arousal

Dew trickeling down
Over Calla Lilly folds
moist and glistening

Sweet, you asked Colly but I want to say that is quite lovely and erotic. Good for you. If you post it don't put haiku in the title .

cheers, Perdita

p.s. lily, trickling, Moist (as the other lines begin w/caps)

 

[sweetnpetite]

So far my favorate haiku:

Even bad haiku
Beat jab in eye with sharp stick
But only barely

MG

Mathgirl, I hope you don't mind me transporting this from your other thread. I just had to share it here. It actually made me 'laugh out loud.'

 

[sweetnpetite]

Sweet, you asked Colly but I want to say that is quite lovely and erotic. Good for you. If you post it don't put haiku in the title .

cheers, Perdita




p.s. lily, trickling, Moist (as the other lines begin w/caps)

thanks 'dita

as you know, I have this calla-lilly fetish...

 

[Colleen Thomas]

well, I think that nature is highly erotic. why do ya think they call it the 'birds and the bees' ??!

Leslie Neilson (that guy from airplain) had this line in a nature movie he was narrating- something about a taste of nector and a 'naughty little quid pro quo' he made nature seem downright obscene -- not neccisarily the same as erotic but nonetheless

Nature can be quite erotic. throw me on a beach with the sun setting and the gulls calling and a stiff ocean breeze with the right person (can't help but think of one person at this point in time) and it wouldn't even take a glass of wine for me to be "in the mood".

Rowr! for nature!

-Coly

 

[Colleen Thomas]

CM, good poem. Weather it fit perfectly into the guidelines (which obviously are somewhat contraversial amoung the literary community) obviously, one should expect something called hiku to be short. I think it would be better if lit framed short peoms with a little more white space. What would it hurt? JMO

Colly, I need a spell check on this- but what do you think?


Arousal

Dew trickeling down
Over Calla Lilly folds
moist and glistening

--by SweetnPetite


.

My spelling is awful. I will however admit Haiku can be erotic

Didn't know you were a poet SnP

-Colly

 

[jthserra]

lol... and to be honest...

Sweet, you asked Colly but I want to say that is quite lovely and erotic. Good for you. If you post it don't put haiku in the title .

cheers, Perdita

p.s. lily, trickling, Moist (as the other lines begin w/caps)

typically haiku are untitled. Normally they are simply identified by their first line. And to be perfectly honest, sweet and petite's haiku is the first one offered here that I think could be called haiku.

Arousal

Dew trickeling down
Over Calla Lilly folds
moist and glistening

I'll elaborate. Haiku is about observation. The haiku artist observes a moment in nature and presents it to the reader. Unlike the poet, the haiku artist's task is not to intrepret what they see, simply to tell what they see.

In other words, metaphor within the haiku is not desirable.

With what sweet and petite has, I would recommend dropping the title (the title makes this haiku a metaphor). If the haiku was presented as:

dew trickling down
over calla lilly folds
moist and glistening

It becomes a credible haiku. As the poem stands now, I would give this one a 3.5 to 4. It is about nature (not an absolute requirement), it is an observation, without the author imputting her intrepretation. And, by dropping the title, the haiku artist allows the reader to consider the scene and on their own intrepret what they see. And I see a very erotic image.

Well done...

jim

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I’ll come in with jthserra on this one.

A haiku is not just 5/7/5, and those who treat it as if that's all there is to it totally miss the entire point. Haiku is much more about a special emotional tone, an evanescent picture of a moment, blending the external and internal and throwing in a strong whiff of the the mystic. Good haiku are pure goosebump material, haunting.

For anyone who’s learned to appreciate the form, there’s something really distasteful about bad attempts by people who don’t understand it. Like hearing people trying to imitate Shakespeare by speaking blank verse, or watching someone eat sushi with ketchup.

---dr.M.

 

[jthserra]

Cringe...

or watching someone eat sushi with ketchup.

---dr.M.

oh my, as a sushi lover, this image will haunt me for many, many days. It makes my wasabi shiver...

 

[McKenna]

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[McKenna]

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[dr_mabeuse]

Candle in moonlight
On the floor, shadows of trees
Her breath on my cheek

---dr.M.

Best I can do on short notice

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I think we're dealing here with the difference between the erotic and the pornographic. Dew on a rose is erotic. (Well, I guess that's bad example. A good, juicy rose is pretty pornographic too)

I think there are a lot of things that are erotic that aren't pornographic. I think the idea of a telephone ringing in a empty room is very erotic. So is a messed bed with one earring on it. Or curtains blowing out of the windows on a beach house. The moon. Each means so much more than itself. Haiku plucks those very fragile feelings and tries to crystallize them. That's why Haiku bruise so easily.

---dr.M.

 

[jthserra]

Ah, pretty good, and on short notice...

Candle in moonlight
On the floor, shadows of trees
Her breath on my cheek

---dr.M.

Yes, pretty good, and he introduces another element of good haiku, "the cut". I am talking about the break in the haiku. You want to avoid the three lines reading like an extended sentence. That was something that could have improved sweet and petite's haiku, her three lines could read as simply a long phrase.

In the haiku above there is a distinct break between the second and third lines. Ideally, the break in the haiku provides the Aha! to the poem. The sudden burst of insight, that was apparant all along, just never noticed.

I think "Her breath on my cheek" is perhaps not stong enough to make this a world class haiku, but it introduces the erotic element to the haiku, so it will work.

I'll warn you, there are some haikuist who believe the introduction of a pronoun, especially a possessive pronoun will invalidate the haiku. Of course those folks are heritics and should be burned at the stake IMHO.

Again, this haiku introduces the cut or break that adds interest to the image. I would give the haiku a solid 4 or slightly more. Having read a considerable amount of haiku will make me more critical than most readers.

 

[McKenna]

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[Guest]

Re: Cringe...

It makes my wasabi shiver...

Jim, puuhleeeeeeze use this in a haiku. For me?

Perdita

 

[jthserra]

Exactly!!!

What you wrote is evocative of a feeling, it's setting the scene and I want to hear more...

That is it! The haiku presents just the image, for you to, through the words, see and interpret. It sets the scene for your imagination. This is where you find eroticism in erotic haiku. It is the subtle suggestion where you find the erotic...

 

[Guest]

I've just recalled there is a 'famous' haiku Pound wrote, does anyone know it? I can see in my mind the image it evoked but cannot recall the words. I think he was looking at a crowded scene, maybe in a train terminal?

Perdita

 

[jthserra]

Mckenna... I'll give it a try

in fourth gear
the look in his eyes
shifting to fifth


You will note, this is shorter than 5/7/5. I have an article coming up discussing Japanese versus English syllables...


jim

 

[McKenna]

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