Sometimes sex isn’t sexy

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

I wrote a story about how I figured out I have PCOS (polycystic ovarian), which is a story I can't tell without some sexual encounters. Particularly ones that didn't go well. Because while there are other symptoms, the hardest ones to brush off as "normal" all have to do with sex.

Sex happens but it's not sexy because there's nothing sexy about the real thing. Which is a large part of the reason I don't usually write about personal experience and avoid writing the female anatomy. Because while I have it and understand it in theory, my descriptions of it will be forever tainted with evidence that my lady bits don't work the way most people male or female would expect.

The story itself has it's cute awkward moments that take up most of the story, as I feel a story in the first time category should be. It's still pending but I'll link yall to it once it's published.

 

[Bramblethorn]

All valid, truly. Yet try to think of a NYT bestselling novel in which everybody is just average, leading 'normal' lives - mortgage, 1.8 cars, 2.3 kids, 9-to-5. That's how most of us live - why would we want to read about that? When was the last Oscar handed out for a movie like that?

2022, arguably? I haven't seen it myself, but as far as I know CODA comes fairly close to that. American teenager whose parents have limited English, trying to find the balance between her family's aspirations and her own, and to explore interests that her parents don't appreciate - there'd be millions of people just in the USA who'd lived something similar.

Of course, no one person is completely average, in the same kind of way that nobody has exactly 2.3 kids. In the case of CODA, the language and cultural divide isn't between migrants and native-born, but between Deaf and hearing. But deafness isn't exactly superhero-level exotic.

Hardly - we want different, exciting (or at least interesting).

"Interesting", yes, but good storytelling can make the "average" interesting. Sometimes people read to escape; sometimes they read to feel seen.

My stories are often a mix of exotic elements and mundane experience. Red Scarf is about a woman who hires her friend as an escort, but it's also about being autistic and about a child of controlling parents learning to assert her own independence; Loss Function is about a couple who build a human-like AI, but it's also about losing a loved one to dementia. I expect the exotic elements are important as part of what pulls readers in, but from the feedback I get, it's often those mundane dimensions that draw the most powerful reactions from readers who see something of themselves reflected.

The fact that @AWhoopsieDaisy started this thread suggests that she, at least, would find "interesting" in more stories that resemble her own experience. I doubt she's the only person in that category.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Sex can be sexy in real life also, but it requires trust between partners and a kind of freedom that comes when you are with someone you are completely comfortable with. It takes some time to get there though.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

why would we want to read about that?

There's a big difference between writing about the textbook average person and writing about someone who's life in a photograph resembles that of a neighbor, a sister, a friend or an ex lover.

Writing about the ugly duckling who never turns into a swan and exploring how they learn to live and love despite their issues. The girl with big dreams who had to settle for being a waitress because college was to expensive. The guy driving a car that's hanging on by a thread because he's too stubborn to admit it's time to retire it.

Yet Literotica is a fantasy site, a place people go to be lifted out of their humdrum, taken away from the norm - in an erotic context. How to increase that eroticism? Well, good writing is certainly central, but having attractive people enjoying sex (including the workup to it) is pretty useful.

Id argue giving the mundane losers a happy ending, even if its not the glamorous and sexy one theyd hope for, is a form of fantasy.

Escapism not by asking the reader to envision characters where everything is extraordinary and perfect, but rather a fantasy where the characters can have problems and struggle to make things work, but still ultimately have a good time doing it.

I think the argument "it's fantasy" inherently poses a question. Fantasy for who? Why in this fantastical story are people like me absent? Why is there no place in fantasy for the inconvenience of biology and the less conventionally attractive?

Something to chew on.

(because who wants to read about sexual failure?)

I do. Apparently. I find it charming and kind of cute. Or failing that, it's at least funny.

 

[gunhilltrain]

You've hit the nail on the very head, Ms Daisy.

Somebody once posted, "If I wanted to see wrinkly, fat old people having sex, I'd put a mirror next to my bed." This is a site dedicated, not to reality, but to erotica.

Well, no, as the writer, you can have as much reality in it as you please, or none at all. The site never said that you have to present your work in any particular manner.

 

[gunhilltrain]

If I ever finish editing the thing, I've got one in the pipeline that's 90% emotionless, disconnected prostitute sex told from her perspective.

I tend to throw in a few fumbles with inexperienced males, but I typically err on the "it's fantasy" side.

I've already got one that is exactly as you described yours. It's also in the first person from her point-of-view.

https://classic.literotica.com/s/nora-turns-a-trick

Note that Nora is articulate but brutally honest with the inexperienced client who wants an additional "freebie" beyond what he paid for. "Josh, I'm running a business here. Like, you wouldn't expect to get a free drill set from Sears." It wasn't enough for me to leave it at that. "Just to be clear, you hired me to blow you. I'm not your lover, or girlfriend, or even a friend with benefits. If you see me downstairs, don't come near me unless you are ready to pay me again for something else."

I'd say it's 100% emotionless except for her annoyance about his unrealistic requests.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I think most people come here (pun intended) for fantasy, not reality. Elements of reality may help connect the reader (or the author) with the story in a satisfying way, but most people, when they seek erotica, seek sexual pleasure. So it makes sense for character's bodies to be well-above average and for the characters to have better technique than their probable counterparts in real life would. If people want reality, bully for them, but I think they're in the minority. And, certainly, as far as erotica is concerned, reality doesn't make a story BETTER in any objective sense. Fantasy is perfectly valid both as art and as sexual stimulant.

Nobody said you couldn't do fantasy sometimes and reality other times, or have both in the same story. If the readers don't like something, they are free to write whatever they wish to see. Just note, readers: it's not as easy as it looks!

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I think the argument "it's fantasy" inherently poses a question. Fantasy for who? Why in this fantastical story are people like me absent? Why is there no place in fantasy for the inconvenience of biology and the less conventionally attractive?

I am not sure why you think there is no place here for the type of stories you would like to read and write. I am certain you would find an audience here for that type of story. It is probably not a large percentage but it is something.
It seems to me that you are unhappy because most readers prefer to read a polished fantasy rather than realistic sex. People like what people like, there is no changing that. There are quite a few among us who are somewhat irked by the fact that our kinks and fantasies are not nearly as popular as I/T mom/son, LW stories, and so on. But to complain about it would be the same as barking at the Moon. De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

[alohadave]

Why in this fantastical story are people like me absent? Why is there no place in fantasy for the inconvenience of biology and the less conventionally attractive?

There is a place for that. You might need to be the person to write out those scenarios.

Your experience and situation will inform your fantasies, but I'll bet that there are plenty of people who want something more real than giant cocks and absurdly beautiful women who have sex at the drop of a hat.

Making something that people can connect with is a powerful thing, and is something worth trying.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

I dunno, something about this website makes me think readers wouldn't latch onto a story where the female main protagonist grabs her partners boob, giving it a squeeze while saying "honk honk" to get the girl to smile.

Even less so for the journey to discovering PCOS that I made this post about innitally.

 

[Euphony]

Like I've yet to see even a first time story that delves into the feeling of not knowing if anything is working and being too shy to ask. I've yet to be faced with the unsexy reality of sex in written form.

Yes please.

Our current prime suspect is "escapism" in that readers don't want any hint of real life creeping in on their (limited) playtime they choose to spend with us.

I get it. But at best it's pablum, at worst plausibility breaking. With the sad state of affairs that is sexual education across the world (US especially) it boggles how so many shy, never been kissed 18 yos are cocksmen of the grandest order. Even more amazing when the roll of the dice that is incest's risk/reward (mucking up a good thing for BAD or even average sex? Fate can be so cruel.)

Quietly, there are those of us who write more in this style and (try to) confront more of the realities of coupling beyond the genitals doing their dance. I get the sense many readers wouldn't ask for this level of intimacy/detail but they'd respond kindly or at least respectfully at even iffy attempts.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I am not sure why you think there is no place here for the type of stories you would like to read and write. I am certain you would find an audience here for that type of story. It is probably not a large percentage but it is something.
It seems to me that you are unhappy because most readers prefer to read a polished fantasy rather than realistic sex. People like what people like, there is no changing that. There are quite a few among us who are somewhat irked by the fact that our kinks and fantasies are not nearly as popular as I/T mom/son, LW stories, and so on. But to complain about it would be the same as barking at the Moon. De gustibus non est disputandum.

You can only worry about being popular so much; at some point you have to write it the way you want it to go. Now with this new Indiana Jones movie, there is $295 million on the line, so they've got to try to be popular. With us, of course, we don't have financial pressures, although we're unlikely to make any money all.

It works the other way too: if an audience doesn't like a movie, it is virtually impossible for any of them to make their own vision of it. As someone said, "A writer needs a pen, an artist needs a brush, and a filmmaker needs an army." So, as I said, the readers here are free to do what they wish (if they can write at all) and we are free to do as we wish.

P.S.: I think that quote appears at the beginning of Steven Bach's book Final Cut. There is a video version of it on YouTube.

https://www.amazon.com/Final-Cut-Dr...cOrk3hV0tMVh61ENDyx3r2f2yyxUw8dRoC-RMQAvD_BwE

 

[gunhilltrain]

I dunno, something about this website makes me think readers wouldn't latch onto a story where the female main protagonist grabs her partners boob, giving it a squeeze while saying "honk honk" to get the girl to smile.

Even less so for the journey to discovering PCOS that I made this post about innitally.

Okay, what is PCOS? Actually it does stand for polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS).

 

[Rob_Royale]

I've read some realistic stories here and some, not so much.
People with real troubles, real bodies, real issues with their sexually/kinks. And on the flip side there's those with characters who are pornographic caricatures of people in outrageous situations. There's room for both and everything in between here. Which is were my stories are. Beautiful people having sexy adventures that "could" happen.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

Okay, what is PCOS? Actually it does stand for polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS).

Yup that's what it stands for. It makes sex hurt like a bitch and I thought that was the universal girl experience for three years. I thought porn girls were really good actors and that erotica was nothing but fantasy. Turns out my anatomy is just really fucked up and always has been.

 

[Unblemished]

I find that there's a lot of un-erotic sex on sites like Lit, personally. But it's usually tied into supporting sexy content in some other way. I wrote one elsewhere where a girl deliberately finished her boyfriend in minutes because he was getting too cocky, for instance, but that's still meant to be sexy, even though the sex is unsatisfying for one partner and humiliating for the other. Playing off the whole power and control thing, I guess.

For another example, people who like cuckolding or humiliation or whatever will often show realistically (or sometimes cartoonishly) bad sex, but it's usually there either to fetishise the dude's failure (I suppose. NMK) or set up a contrast with whatever porn-logic sex god is waiting in the wings.

I mean, we've all seen it:

"Hello my name is Generica McHousewife and I have long blonde hair and 34DD tits, which is a totally normal way for a real human being to start a conversation. I'm happily married to a lovely man with whom I have a nice house with a white picket fence, 1.7 kids and two thirds of a dog.

"There is only one dark spot in our marriage..."

And you just know you're about to read about how Lovely Husband has a two-inch dick with a ten-pump limit and there'll be a badboy ex/lustful boss/Generica's insatiable son with a cock like Ron Jeremy or something making their debut by the bottom of the page.

I shouldn't be too mean, I've sort of done that myself. Though not really on Lit, and I tend to fixate more on moral failings than physical ones. I don't like how so many stories conflate cruelty or bossiness with sexual prowess, so I'm more likely to have such a person be a dickhead who doesn't care about his partner's pleasure, or a person too proud or deluded to seek help for whatever genuine sexual problem they have.

I did write a realistic first time story once, which while it ended well, didn't shy away from the awkward realities and situations involved. It was a missing-scene fanfic, though, so it's not on here. That one very much lingered on things like negotiating boundaries, fumbling with condoms, a shy virginal nerd hero who doesn't know how to unhook a bra but does know where the clitoris is because this is the 21st Century and there are diagrams on google, etc. The heroine suspects he's going to finish quickly so gives him a handjob before they fuck so he doesn't feel embarassed about his first time ending in seconds, and because he's young and physically capable so she knows he'll bounce back fast. Lots of fumbling and laughing and being a bit embarassed, but both got their rocks off in the end. I was quite proud of it.

I do like the little details, though it can be annoying when the laws of reality only apply to, say, the designated cuckold or whatever and everyone else is a sex god.

And sometimes you just want to read something lurid and ridiculous, so.

EDIT: cut a bit bc it wasn't really relevant

 

[Bramblethorn]

I dunno, something about this website makes me think readers wouldn't latch onto a story where the female main protagonist grabs her partners boob, giving it a squeeze while saying "honk honk" to get the girl to smile.

Some won't, some will. It's a big place, there are readers here for most things.

Id argue giving the mundane losers a happy ending, even if its not the glamorous and sexy one theyd hope for, is a form of fantasy.

Escapism not by asking the reader to envision characters where everything is extraordinary and perfect, but rather a fantasy where the characters can have problems and struggle to make things work, but still ultimately have a good time doing it.

Yup. I like stories about people who feel human, who have flaws and sometimes fuck up and still get to be happy and loved, because I'm a human being with flaws who sometimes fucks up and I'd still like to think I deserve to be happy and loved.

I think the argument "it's fantasy" inherently poses a question. Fantasy for who? Why in this fantastical story are people like me absent? Why is there no place in fantasy for the inconvenience of biology and the less conventionally attractive?

I wonder if that's specifically a matter of "for the less conventionally attractive woman".

The whole "unsexy nerd guy gets to hook up with the hottest girl around" thing is a porn trope - yes, the sex in those is often pornified fantasy, but the bit where it's happening to an unsexy nerd is just as important to its popularity. Dudes want to be able to imagine it happening to them.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Yup that's what it stands for. It makes sex hurt like a bitch and I thought that was the universal girl experience for three years. I thought porn girls were really good actors and that erotica was nothing but fantasy. Turns out my anatomy is just really fucked up and always has been.

Rather, PCOS can do that (especially with endometriosis as well)) - I too have PCOS but thankfully the only real symptoms were terrible periods and a decade of infertility.

Which fed into a chapter here - Laura bet her friend Adrian he could have at her breasts if he quit smoking for a month (and sex after three), so they're snuggling and talking about sex but end up discussing his prior addictions and a bad session with a prostitute, and her infertility.

I now enjoy pointing out that actually, periods can be worse than childbirth!

 

[Pureotica]

Some of my planned stories have fail-sex scenes, where something goes wrong and interrupts the couple before the main event. Not sure if I'll get punished in the ratings. The scenes are eroticized and intentionally build tension without a built-in release. The stories are slow-burn, and the scenes are important for character development, so I'll let the chips fall where they may.

I try to explore the awkwardness and vulnerability of sex, but I don't see it as the opposite of sexy. It's another thread in the grand tapestry of eroticism. If I execute properly, I hope my readers will be rooting for the characters in their challenges instead of punishing me over them. If I don't execute well, I deserve the punishment and treat it as a learning experience.

But I try to let my characters have some fulfilling sex by the resolution. A happy ending with a happy ending by the time they reach THE END. I just make them struggle for it if the story demands it.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I was not trying to say that reality doesn’t matter. Reality - or at least credibility - is critical. The average guy isn’t packing 10” and the average woman doesn’t have six orgasms from somebody just grabbing her bosom in a bar. I personally find such nonsense a turn-off.

That doesn’t mean a writer needs to stick only with the ideal. I enjoy writing tales where things don’t go perfectly. A young couple being ready for first time sex but having forgotten to bring condoms is a classic. A shy, ordinary-looking young woman who mainly needs to be teased into smiling for the MMC to see how beautiful she is. The A-cup woman who discovers attitude is sexier than gravity-warping cleavage. The man who has given up on himself until the right lady comes along. Those are all far from the ideal, yet all are perfectly workable scenarios.

My point (yes, there is one) is that while a really good writer one can write good erotic fiction around two obese people with poor hygiene and acne, it’s a lot easier to succeed if the couple is attractive by normal standards - fairytale beauty isn’t essential, but attractive makes it easier to appeal to a wider audience.

AWD - I am sorry to hear of your personal issue. That must be seriously frustrating for you. Sadly, based on what you have said, it also puts you into a much smaller subset of readers. Tell you what - while I think you might be the best person to write your personally-pleasing yarn, I’m willing to have a go at this. Take a look through my stories; I don’t think there are any precisely fitting your desires, but if the general style appeals to you, drop me a PM and we can talk about it. Good luck in any case.

 

[Emilymcplugger]

I sometimes find when I’m writing a sex scene I’m just in a functional in/out writing mood and it’s just logistics and not in anyway erotic.

When it’s like this I find I fix it in the edit and bring the sauce when it’s time to publish with the oohs, the ah’s, the description and the emotional kicks required.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I find that there's a lot of un-erotic sex on sites like Lit, personally. But it's usually tied into supporting sexy content in some other way. I wrote one elsewhere where a girl deliberately finished her boyfriend in minutes because he was getting too cocky, for instance, but that's still meant to be sexy, even though the sex is unsatisfying for one partner and humiliating for the other. Playing off the whole power and control thing, I guess.

For another example, people who like cuckolding or humiliation or whatever will often show realistically (or sometimes cartoonishly) bad sex, but it's usually there either to fetishise the dude's failure (I suppose. NMK) or set up a contrast with whatever porn-logic sex god is waiting in the wings.

I mean, we've all seen it:

"Hello my name is Generica McHousewife and I have long blonde hair and 34DD tits, which is a totally normal way for a real human being to start a conversation. I'm happily married to a lovely man with whom I have a nice house with a white picket fence, 1.7 kids and two thirds of a dog.

"There is only one dark spot in our marriage..."

And you just know you're about to read about how Lovely Husband has a two-inch dick with a ten-pump limit and there'll be a badboy ex/lustful boss/Generica's insatiable son with a cock like Ron Jeremy or something making their debut by the bottom of the page.

I shouldn't be too mean, I've sort of done that myself. Though not really on Lit, and I tend to fixate more on moral failings than physical ones. I don't like how so many stories conflate cruelty or bossiness with sexual prowess, so I'm more likely to have such a person be a dickhead who doesn't care about his partner's pleasure, or a person too proud or deluded to seek help for whatever genuine sexual problem they have.

I did write a realistic first time story once, which while it ended well, didn't shy away from the awkward realities and situations involved. It was a missing-scene fanfic, though, so it's not on here. That one very much lingered on things like negotiating boundaries, fumbling with condoms, a shy virginal nerd hero who doesn't know how to unhook a bra but does know where the clitoris is because this is the 21st Century and there are diagrams on google, etc. The heroine suspects he's going to finish quickly so gives him a handjob before they fuck so he doesn't feel embarassed about his first time ending in seconds, and because he's young and physically capable so she knows he'll bounce back fast. Lots of fumbling and laughing and being a bit embarassed, but both got their rocks off in the end. I was quite proud of it.

I do like the little details, though it can be annoying when the laws of reality only apply to, say, the designated cuckold or whatever and everyone else is a sex god.

And sometimes you just want to read something lurid and ridiculous, so.

EDIT: cut a bit bc it wasn't really relevant

My first takeaway on this is that Ron Jeremy may have an impressive cock, but his face is certainly ordinary. Perhaps inspiring that a guy like him could become a porn star through sheer determination I guess. But then, the money is about the only reason to be in the porn industry at all. I doubt that it has much to do with sex per se. Although, arguably it's easier work than installing dry wall all day.

"Send in the fluffers." But for those ladies too, it must be similar to wiping down vehicles coming out of a car wash.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

Update: the story got rejected for the 18+ rule (not sure what about the story the system thinks is violating that rule but, that's the reason I've been given for rejection)

 

[ElectricBlue]

Tell you what - while I think you might be the best person to write your personally-pleasing yarn, I’m willing to have a go at this. Take a look through my stories; I don’t think there are any precisely fitting your desires, but if the general style appeals to you, drop me a PM and we can talk about it. Good luck in any case.

That's such a generous offer, TP, and you're an ideal person for it.

I was approached several years ago by a woman who had read my story Rope and Veil, about a woman with paraplegia and the able bodied man who fell for her. She was paraplegic herself, and asked if I'd write her something privately. It was humbling, and a great privilege, and gave me a far greater understanding of human sexuality, and how to find arousal and intimacy when the usual ways don't work.

 

[alohadave]

Update: the story got rejected for the 18+ rule (not sure what about the story the system thinks is violating that rule but, that's the reason I've been given for rejection)

There may be some verbiage that reads as underage.

If there isn't anything under 18, resubmit with an Admit note stating that. Either it'll get approved, or the specific wording will be pointed out to you.