Switching: Revisited

[s'lara]

Passing Thought

i've seen lots of fem/switches say that Topping other fems is more comfortable than topping men. The reasons why have been a little vague.

What is it other than the obvious submissive in you that makes it easier to Top women but scarier/discomforting to Top men?

me? i've actually let my mind go there once or twice (the thought of Topping anyone) and the squicks hit me fast and brought on a round of giggles. Is there something other than the sub side of you that prevents going there with men? Lack of experience, absence of desire, inability to equate men with submission? What is the deal?

In advance, thanks for all of the responses. Kudos to those who explore these desires with relish and in the face of nonsense.

lara

 

[evesdream]

Re: Passing Thought

i've seen lots of fem/switches say that Topping other fems is more comfortable than topping men. The reasons why have been a little vague.

What is it other than the obvious submissive in you that makes it easier to Top women but scarier/discomforting to Top men?

me? i've actually let my mind go there once or twice (the thought of Topping anyone) and the squicks hit me fast and brought on a round of giggles. Is there something other than the sub side of you that prevents going there with men? Lack of experience, absence of desire, inability to equate men with submission? What is the deal?

In advance, thanks for all of the responses. Kudos to those who explore these desires with relish and in the face of nonsense.

lara

i was thinking about that and i think i was off base in my earlier response about respect (lack of) as a factor that would preclude-ah, postclude me trying to top anyone.

For some reason, size is a factor- whenever i imagine a man I would do any sort of switching with he's usually "a man of size". Big, burly and by that count stronger than i am.

To think of someone like that quailing in front of is is a bit of a laugh and doesn't fail to seem like pretense to me, or like he doesn't know his strength, it just seems false and being in that situation brings out negative feelings in me towards him historically.

When I think about playing with women, there's more of a sense in my mind of there being a mutual goal towards pleasure. Much more co-operative, but not necessarily romantic.

As Netzach pointed out, any such thing has been and is strictly subject to change. Think it's all very much about an altered frame of mind atleast for me, i'm subject to change. At least I hope* so.

 

[Netzach]

I'm reverse wired to you ladies.

I'm much more likely to Top males, precisely because of the size differential.

My athlete could so pin me down and kick my ass. He doesn't want to! That's so fucking heady. I can get him to not *want* to, little doughy me!

 

[evesdream]

I'm reverse wired to you ladies.

I'm much more likely to Top males, precisely because of the size differential.

My athlete could so pin me down and kick my ass. He doesn't want to! That's so fucking heady. I can get him to not *want* to, little doughy me!

Before I do any switching ever again with a male person I would have to ... confront my own sexism that doesn't allow for that sort of meekness from him; power in submission not withstanding. I might just be a gym coach harpie harridan otherwise, i fear.

The thing of the thing is, if I'm intimate with a man, and if there is strength and power and misogyny and rage in him, I want to see it and not translated into niceguy or girlspeak. Most men do have hidden venom, i think, and this writ plain sexually gets me hot and bothered.

Netzach, you'd said that when you top you empathize with the bottom. Do you think that empathy is at odds with a more generalized anger or lover's quarrel with certain types of men? (if you have such feelings) Does techiness even enter into it at all or strictly no?

"Sado-narcissist" your phrasology is brilliant btw

 

[evesdream]

I have been wondering whether the switchy types in this thread consider their switch sides an exercise in sadism&masochism, or an exercize in submission and control.

What kind of power exchange does it tap for you?

 

[amsubone]

power & control

 

[Netzach]

Before I do any switching ever again with a male person I would have to ... confront my own sexism that doesn't allow for that sort of meekness from him; power in submission not withstanding. I might just be a gym coach harpie harridan otherwise, i fear.

The thing of the thing is, if I'm intimate with a man, and if there is strength and power and misogyny and rage in him, I want to see it and not translated into niceguy or girlspeak. Most men do have hidden venom, i think, and this writ plain sexually gets me hot and bothered.

Most men you encounter do, probably because you *find it attractive and seek it out.* Most men in my experience, don't. They are sick of the facades of masculinity, tired of playing the game and come to me specifically for respite. But I go looking for that in a guy.

I'm attracted to the feminine. I honestly am. I just happen to find the contrast of femininity in a male container doubly hot. Tv's and crossdressers are attractive to me, but also attractive are men who move and exist with a certain receptive *swish* even with the most manly of exteriors.

Bad boys, tough guys, alpha males, have always elicited a sense of distaste, not the allure of the forbidden, more the distaste of the disinterested. Kind of "meh" as someone else put it recently. I know that's hard to believe, as the vast majority of women are attracted to these types of men. But it's how it is, how it's always been, for me.

Maybe most men have alpha drives, rapine, misogyny. The ones I fuck don't. I do.

It's not faked gentility. That's shit I can't abide for a second. It's not saying what I want to hear, it's a shot at finally being authentic, free.

Netzach, you'd said that when you top you empathize with the bottom. Do you think that empathy is at odds with a more generalized anger or lover's quarrel with certain types of men? (if you have such feelings) Does techiness even enter into it at all or strictly no?

I don't think empathy is at odds with degredation, or frustration (lover's quarrel?) or really going to town on a person. I think that my days as a pig boy have taught me that pulling a punch is the ultimate insult, the thing that leaves the pig inclined bottom high and dry. I understand what a person like me is trying to do with their ego when they bottom.


"Sado-narcissist" your phrasology is brilliant btw [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[evesdream]

Most men you encounter do, probably because you *find it attractive and seek it out.*

actually that sort of person is very rare in my life.

Most men in my experience, don't. They are sick of the facades of masculinity, tired of playing the game and come to me specifically for respite. But I go looking for that in a guy.
I'm attracted to the feminine. I honestly am. I just happen to find the contrast of femininity in a male container doubly hot. Tv's and crossdressers are attractive to me, but also attractive are men who move and exist with a certain receptive *swish* even with the most manly of exteriors.

yes, truth and beauty has many different faces.

Bad boys, tough guys, alpha males, have always elicited a sense of distaste, not the allure of the forbidden, more the distaste of the disinterested. Kind of "meh" as someone else put it recently. I know that's hard to believe, as the vast majority of women are attracted to these types of men. But it's how it is, how it's always been, for me.

Any "type" "scene" or reduction, and many a man or womanhood act is distasteful. Nope, I believe you.

Maybe most men have alpha drives, rapine, misogyny. The ones I fuck don't. I do.

Jung does us proud every day

It's not faked gentility. That's shit I can't abide for a second. It's not saying what I want to hear, it's a shot at finally being authentic, free.

Manhood acts come in all varieties. Deep down I am cynical, but anyone with intelligence will be able to hear what rings true and what doesn't. Faked gentility is pretty easy to spot however it surfaces and it's fairly easy to pick out people who do not know themselves.

Netzach, you'd said that when you top you empathize with the bottom. Do you think that empathy is at odds with a more generalized anger or lover's quarrel with certain types of men? (if you have such feelings) Does techiness even enter into it at all or strictly no?

I don't think empathy is at odds with degredation, or frustration (lover's quarrel?) or really going to town on a person. I think that my days as a pig boy have taught me that pulling a punch is the ultimate insult, the thing that leaves the pig inclined bottom high and dry. I understand what a person like me is trying to do with their ego when they bottom.

I think that to experience D/s from both sides gives one a richer berth of mental and emotional focus points to draw from when that person chooses to be dom or sub, top or bottom. Thank you for answering my questions!

 

[Quint]

Hmmm...now I really do wish I had myself more real life experience Topping so I could do more than approximate my reasons! But I don't at all mind you asking, s'lara...it's a fun thought.

I have Topped a male before. There was something intriguing about it but I know it was the sadist in me--gasp, who knew? I wanted to get him to hurt, but I also wanted him to get hard from the pain. I wanted to push him into confessing how much he wanted me to hurt him and to find that out about himself, and I wanted it to drive him wild. And then deny him. It feels perversely powerful, and I think a big reason why it was so unsatisfying was that he was just unkinked in general. Didn't like pain. Only liked submitting when I made him give me pleasure--and that I found insanely boring. Pleasure pleasure pleasure. I get it all the freakin time. I give it to myself. I want other people for those things that I CAN'T do to myself.

So applying those few-and-unsatisfying experiences to making men submit in general? They'd have to want it. Bad. I think it would be, in my mind, a revenge fuck, my submission's Antichrist. Total denial of their needs, total expression of mine. I'd be a ruthless fucking bitch and I would be okay with them hating me for it, as long as they wanted my Topping just slightly more. Not something I would ever try in a relationship, and it could only work when I'm in an *extremely* rare mood.

Females...my interest in them is so much more multifaceted as sexual objects, and yet so much less intense. Sometimes I think how I want to nurture them, help them understand more about themselves. Sometimes I just want to make them cry. I don't quite trust the sadist in me around women, though, but that is probably because the girl I'm thinking of is an unknown variable on pain and I don't want to rape her without first knowing that it's okay. I feel much less guilt and fear about assaulting a man, though he'd have to be big enough that I'd know he could take it. I know I would love to be truly, demonically sadistic to a girl who wanted it just enough to let me do it to her. That's really all the dominance I need.

I've been snipped for brevity once already this thread; think now is a good stopping point.

 

[MissTaken]

I've been snipped for brevity once already this thread; think now is a good stopping point.

No offense intended!

 

[Quint]

No offense intended!

None taken; I'm wordy and I know it. This is just a rather fascinating topic for me because it's so new of an idea that I haven't completed sorted myself out on it yet. I love introspection.

 

[MissTaken]

None taken; I'm wordy and I know it. This is just a rather fascinating topic for me because it's so new of an idea that I haven't completed sorted myself out on it yet. I love introspection.

Yes, for me too.

And many of my thoughts mirror previous threads or discussions concerning Dominance and submission.

For example, I love making her cum. I love playing with her, pleasing her, driving her absolutely mad and then not letting her orgasm.

But when I do..... yummy.

And that I don't even need to become sexually involved in what we are doing, surprises me. I simply enjoy being able to please her and control her orgasms.

For me, this is confusing, although as I mentioned, we have discussed this on the forum before and cognitively, I know what the answers are. I just need time to let them settle in for me in my life.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Re: Passing Thought

i've seen lots of fem/switches say that Topping other fems is more comfortable than topping men. The reasons why have been a little vague.

What is it other than the obvious submissive in you that makes it easier to Top women but scarier/discomforting to Top men?

I don't know. I used to find it easier to dominate women, and my preference was driven there largely by how easy it is to find submissive women of interest. Now that I'm a little more experienced and comfortable in my own skin, I'm over that little bias.

Everyone's submission looks different from that of others, so I'm trying to give up the old hackneyed gender stereotypes. Besides, Topping an alpha male is entertainment in the extreme. And once they give in to it, nobody can take the pain like an alpha--those fuckers never code. Lovin' it.

Then again, I've been told more than once that I'm perverse.
I'm okay with that.

RS

 

[Quint]

Re: Re: Passing Thought

<snip>Besides, Topping an alpha male is entertainment in the extreme. And once they give in to it, nobody can take the pain like an alpha--those fuckers never code. Lovin' it. </snip>

Yes yes yes...that is exactly it. In my rare but exquisite moods of brutality, that is just the sort of opportunity for sexual cruelty I long for. But the somewhat rhetorical question remains, how many alpha males really relish that sort of abuse?

 

[MissTaken]

An interesting article:

Used with permission by Mistress Steel
F.R.R. Mallory
copyright 1995-2003
Originally posted at Mistress Steel's Chamber

http://www.steel-door.com/switches.htm

There may be some discussion in the article which can help others to understand switching.

I also enjoyed the article because it recognized that issues of the loss of credibility in the BDSM community when one identifies themself as a switch. Yep. It happens.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

So, if you switch, how did you explore or enter into switching?
If you are interested in switching, whether for yourself or by means of being interested in switching as an enigma etc, what do you find interesting, frustrating, perplexing, rewarding, confusing, fun or orgasmic?

Miss T:
Hello...i read through this thread and decided to go ahead and throw my 2 cents in. I first entered the BDSM arena by being a Top. It wasn't until i had my first L/t relationship with a woman that i discovered my subbie side.
Switching is a part of me...an integral part. i am always more Dominant, more *there* when i am involved with a man. For some reason, being around a man...a big old bruiser of a man...who needs ME is a little awe-inspiring. (Hence my problems when having my first and only male Owner) The head space that i get into when i am involved with a male is nothing like the head space i get when i am with a female. It is all different.
Being the one to take control, to take care of things is natural to me...setting the scene, playing and in everyday life. And a man who not only allows it but needs it...brings that *Top* out in me...every time.
With women, the emotions are deeper, sweeter and in most respects more stable and more solid. I trust women far more with my emotional stability...therefore allowing me to give up control. I love that feeling. I could never Top a woman nor would I want to..
(Not sure if any of this made any sense but....)
There you have it....
for me Topping is something i do with the guys i am involved with...being a subbie that's for the lady in my life...and *She* knows who she is...
(altho...i must say...i can do either/or if a couple is involved...and plan on doing so soon!!!)
PET

 

[MissTaken]

Thank you, Pet.

I enjoyed your post and the confidence with which you describe the switch in "you."

As you know, this all fairly new for me, and there are still things I am muddling through, working out, and getting frustrated that my wants, needs and desires no longer seem to fit in neat little boxes. (i.e. Dom or sub)

I will wish you great luck and good fortune in your new relationship with a couple.

If nothing else, I have learned to never close a door or assume anything about myself. I hvae done so in the past by trying to fit into the little boxes. So, who knows where all this will lead?

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Thank you, Pet.

I enjoyed your post and the confidence with which you describe the switch in "you."

As you know, this all fairly new for me, and there are still things I am muddling through, working out, and getting frustrated that my wants, needs and desires no longer seem to fit in neat little boxes. (i.e. Dom or sub)

I will wish you great luck and good fortune in your new relationship with a couple.

If nothing else, I have learned to never close a door or assume anything about myself. I hvae done so in the past by trying to fit into the little boxes. So, who knows where all this will lead?

quite welcome Miss T.
I think for people who are just getting into the swing of switching (especially if they are going from sub to Dom/me) lots of time is required. As i am sure Y/you know by now...the mind sets are completely different. I am always in the mind set of *top* but only cuz by nature i am an alpha female...(mega bitch LOL). I take and keep control normally as a way to protect myself in some cases and as a way to find out who i can let go TO.
I feel that only a person who has worked from the other side KNOWS what to expect out of their partner...and can plan on how to put their partner there. (of course , working from a new spot is hard at first...like a Top suddenly finding the urge to do what Ma'am tells her to...heehee).
All i know is...i am sure with your grace and willingness to explore...Y/you will have this problem whipped in no time flat!!!
(and thanks for the luck...tis only a play experience at least til my *She* gets Herself together!!!)
Kisses
PET

 

[MissTaken]

You? "wonder bitch?" No, way, pet!

I dont' believe that.


I had an interesting question posed to me by someone interested in me topping them today.

What is the most unpleasant activity you have participated in as a submissive that you would expect from your submissive?

I had to think on that one.

 

[MissTaken]

I honestly couldnt' think of anything.

While certain things are somewhat unpleasant for me, that doesn't mean that another person won't find them exquisite.

And, I have only submitted to men. I would imagine a woman's touch is a bit different.

 

[bunny517]

Originally posted by MissTaken
I honestly couldnt' think of anything.

While certain things are somewhat unpleasant for me, that doesn't mean that another person won't find them exquisite.

And, I have only submitted to men. I would imagine a woman's touch is a bit different.

Oh yes, A woman's touch is different but very very wonderful.Soft and warm yet can be very firm when needed. Serving a Mistress to me is one of the best things I have done in this lifestyle.I am so very lucky to be able to serve both a Master and a Mistress. I hope they both know just how much I do love serving them both!!!!!

 

[MissTaken]

Just a blurt or realization:

The two roles do not conflict, rather they fill different needs that I have.

I foresee any long term relationship being characterized by my submission and switching may be a tool that I can use to please.
But who knows?

 

[Ms_Lilith]

*beaming*

I have to say, I didn't know I had it in me to be Dominant like I just discovered I can be.

What an incredible feeling.

 

[MissTaken]

*beaming*

I have to say, I didn't know I had it in me to be Dominant like I just discovered I can be.

What an incredible feeling.

I had topped a fw times before actually feeling that energy, that high that goes with it. When I found it, it was very cool and convinced me that I wasn't just dabbling or playing.

It is a feeling I could learn to enjoy very much.

 

[MissTaken]

I received a pm asking how I explored becoming a switch and how i came to the realization that it was the right thing for me.

I am going to post about this tomorrow, perhaps, but til then, thought a bump to the thread to allow other's who have switched/do switch to tell their tale would help this particular poster.