Taking the Pain
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Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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Shy said,
"A Begging Plea
Please, please please, i am begging you both to share your knowledge and insight into these topics.
Either through this thread or on a new one.
I know as a new & naive little sub, I could learn soooooo much from both of you...
Ok. ok i give up.
Was that begging ok, or was it overkill??"
Overkill.
------
Escl: Some of us regard a good smack on the ass of a NOT self-hypnotized bottom as 'traditional'. Non-narcosis is a 'family value.'
The SMACK thread is a different ballgame. Or so it's said by those nattering nabobs.
PS to shy: The 'trust' that needs to be present--or precautions achieving the same end-- is that the situation will not end up in the ER or the police station. Beyond that, is the area of alleged correctness and romantic partnering.
"A Begging Plea
Please, please please, i am begging you both to share your knowledge and insight into these topics.
Either through this thread or on a new one.
I know as a new & naive little sub, I could learn soooooo much from both of you...
Ok. ok i give up.
Was that begging ok, or was it overkill??"
Overkill.
------
Escl: Some of us regard a good smack on the ass of a NOT self-hypnotized bottom as 'traditional'. Non-narcosis is a 'family value.'
The SMACK thread is a different ballgame. Or so it's said by those nattering nabobs.
PS to shy: The 'trust' that needs to be present--or precautions achieving the same end-- is that the situation will not end up in the ER or the police station. Beyond that, is the area of alleged correctness and romantic partnering.
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shy slave
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Pure
Damn overkill lol
Romantic parternering...
is that when He brings whips, canes, nipple clamps and buttplugs as oppose to flowers and chocs
On a different thread AngelicAssassin said "don't take a knife to a gunfight" which kinda sums it up as well.
So maybe a set of finely honed, new canes is a Dom equivalent of a bunch of beautiful spring flowers
Damn overkill lol
Romantic parternering...
is that when He brings whips, canes, nipple clamps and buttplugs as oppose to flowers and chocs
On a different thread AngelicAssassin said "don't take a knife to a gunfight" which kinda sums it up as well.
So maybe a set of finely honed, new canes is a Dom equivalent of a bunch of beautiful spring flowers
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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//finely honed, new canes is a Dom equivalent of a bunch of beautiful spring flowers //
we don't 'hone' canes around here, ma'am.
actually I was referring to the romantic dom/mes that bear canes along with the bouquets of spring flowers. ("Your pain is a celebration of the glory of our devotion to one another.")
we don't 'hone' canes around here, ma'am.
actually I was referring to the romantic dom/mes that bear canes along with the bouquets of spring flowers. ("Your pain is a celebration of the glory of our devotion to one another.")
shy slave
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Pure said:
Your right can't imagine you being called Huggy Dom or Honey Master
Wonder if anyone has dared to call some of the other Dom/Mes on here those sort of names
Mmmm.... How long the sweet Dommes be sweet if their boys tried to call them Honey Dommes?
--
What about Brief Encounter? or Don't you like 'brief'
rosco rathbone
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shy slave said:Ahh Pure
Beneath that strong Dom exterior beats an old romantic heart.
Bet you have a secret fetish for the old black & white romance movies too.
master pure eh???
leopold sacher masoch is surely revolving in his masoleum right about now...
"
"smirko
AngelicAssassin
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Re: Kajira Callista
It might be painful for the "meat in the middle" to accomodate, but then, that is the sharp end of the stick, correct?
Who says two couldn't do her throat, sex, or tail at the same time?shy slave said:
It might be painful for the "meat in the middle" to accomodate, but then, that is the sharp end of the stick, correct?
AngelicAssassin
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Darlin' ... you've never let the thought of two men at the same time flit across that subconscious?shy slave said:Would feel like being a kebab
No, m'lady. Of the original quartet, someone else held the title "Nasty."shy slave said:
i'll hold onto "Wicked."
Netzach
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On the opposite end of the spectrum, I've spent time with a girl who just cooed and smiled as I literally blackened her lilly white ass with a ruler-thin paddle, top to bottom. She just grinned like a fool as I yanked a zipper of clothespins off her body, where normal non-mutant people, as I call them, would all scream.
I don't know *why* it was a turn on for me to work over a body that clearly translated my sickest and heaviest work as giddy fun instead of something to scream about, only that it does and did.
The idea of the quickie agony does nothing for me. The idea of the trained and refined masochist who takes all is scary for me, and thus, maybe therein lies the link between fear and lust, in a top type.
I don't know *why* it was a turn on for me to work over a body that clearly translated my sickest and heaviest work as giddy fun instead of something to scream about, only that it does and did.
The idea of the quickie agony does nothing for me. The idea of the trained and refined masochist who takes all is scary for me, and thus, maybe therein lies the link between fear and lust, in a top type.
AngelicAssassin
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Might i ask a question on scary and the link?Netzach said:
Scared because the t&rm might push you further than you think you can, perhaps should, go, or that you'll take off the leash and lose all manner of control?
i'm not wording this right, but a little exchange here might break the thought free.
Kajira Callista
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backspace, backspace, backspace...oh what a wonderful feature the edit option is (back to lurking)AngelicAssassin said:
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Netzach
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I knew that the end of the scene would be when I felt done, not when she felt done. I knew for a fact that this was someone whose limits, physically, went further out along the line than I could have gone with her.
As for losing control, I don't really distrust myself with my black and scaly monster that much, for me it was the fear of the new and unfamiliar terrain.
I could not identify with this person any longer, whereas I usually can. Not a failure of empathy or being in tune with them, but a fundamental inability to ever imagine being like that....
were out of the usual ocean, here be dragons.
As for losing control, I don't really distrust myself with my black and scaly monster that much, for me it was the fear of the new and unfamiliar terrain.
I could not identify with this person any longer, whereas I usually can. Not a failure of empathy or being in tune with them, but a fundamental inability to ever imagine being like that....
were out of the usual ocean, here be dragons.
Esclava
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Netzach said:
A question from one who really doesn't know...
How do you find a t&rm? It doesn't appear that they would fall out of the sky...or, (if they are worth their salt as a sub) be released by a Dom that was pleased with them.
I could see one being released by the death of their Dom or something equally debillitating. I would like to understand why and how one who would be so scary to you would be "alone" for you to interact with.
Esclava
Kajira Callista
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maybe by choice or real life circumstance?Esclava said:A question from one who really doesn't know...
How do you find a t&rm? It doesn't appear that they would fall out of the sky...or, (if they are worth their salt as a sub) be released by a Dom that was pleased with them.
I could see one being released by the death of their Dom or something equally debillitating. I would like to understand why and how one who would be so scary to you would be "alone" for you to interact with.
Esclava
AngelicAssassin
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i'm struggling here Netzach. i just finished mowing and "air brushing" a lawn that made KC's look like a green at the Masters. Your response and my struggle to get out what i can't seem to ask correctly kept hammering in my head and i found myself suprised the task completed.Netzach said:
It's liking watching
Just wanted to let you know i haven't provoked and then sat back to watch the fur fly. i'm working it out in my head. Going back through 25 years of experiences ain't helping either.
Esclava
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Just a few thoughts, AA...
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
For a Sadistic "Top", their lust is driven by and pleasure attained from inflicting pain on another (preferably a masochistic bottom). Pushing the bottom through increasing thresholds of pain and past current limits also pushes limits for the Top.
When a Top interacts with a bottom who is already past the current limits of the Top, is there a fear of not being in control of the situation that creeps in? Perhaps a fear that the bottom will not get what they need in order to respond in a way that feeds the needs of the Top?
For example, if screaming in pain feeds a need for the Top and that doesn't happen because the maso-bottom needs more stimulation than the Top feels comfortable giving - does it affect the Top in such a way as to become indeciscive or, worse yet, does it push the Top to become uncharacteristically cruel to maintain the facade of the "Dom who knows no limits?" Might that make a Dom with a conscience, especially a sadistic one, fearful of how to proceed - because their lust is then tied up with the needs of the bottom?
When the Top is "done", but the bottom is not, have the needs of the Top truly been met? Could that be part of the connection between the fear that the Top has been ineffective, and therefore their lust not sated? Or perhaps the scene ends with the Top feeling like the bottom is really in control?
I know it is a lot of questions....perhaps something in it will help "break the thought loose." Please let me know.
Esclava
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
For a Sadistic "Top", their lust is driven by and pleasure attained from inflicting pain on another (preferably a masochistic bottom). Pushing the bottom through increasing thresholds of pain and past current limits also pushes limits for the Top.
When a Top interacts with a bottom who is already past the current limits of the Top, is there a fear of not being in control of the situation that creeps in? Perhaps a fear that the bottom will not get what they need in order to respond in a way that feeds the needs of the Top?
For example, if screaming in pain feeds a need for the Top and that doesn't happen because the maso-bottom needs more stimulation than the Top feels comfortable giving - does it affect the Top in such a way as to become indeciscive or, worse yet, does it push the Top to become uncharacteristically cruel to maintain the facade of the "Dom who knows no limits?" Might that make a Dom with a conscience, especially a sadistic one, fearful of how to proceed - because their lust is then tied up with the needs of the bottom?
When the Top is "done", but the bottom is not, have the needs of the Top truly been met? Could that be part of the connection between the fear that the Top has been ineffective, and therefore their lust not sated? Or perhaps the scene ends with the Top feeling like the bottom is really in control?
I know it is a lot of questions....perhaps something in it will help "break the thought loose." Please let me know.
Esclava
Trying to answer in lieu of my dominant...
It's often his purpose to experience the signs of my pain. I'm not often a pain slut but it happens occasionally and then I respond but with the cooing that Netzach described, rather than "please God make it stop." That can be pretty unappetizing for him when it's not his purpose. But he is not afraid to tap into his truly brutal side and give me pain that is NOT of the cooing variety. This is kind of where personal quirks come into play. I might take the hand, the belt, and the flogger really well, but once he pulls out the lighter, I'm crying and begging. Your strokes may vary. So I don't think the dominant has to be no-limits; they just have to know their partner and what to do to elicit the desired reaction.
In a previous relationship, my top was not particularly sadistic. Neither of our needs really got met because I wanted more pain, he wanted less, and so both of us were unsatisfied at the end of a scene. That's a very incompatible equation, hence the first four words of this paragraph.
Oh, and the thought of two in one hole? Unfuckinbelievable. It's hot but I'm just not built for that. I'm such a 3-hole.
It's often his purpose to experience the signs of my pain. I'm not often a pain slut but it happens occasionally and then I respond but with the cooing that Netzach described, rather than "please God make it stop." That can be pretty unappetizing for him when it's not his purpose. But he is not afraid to tap into his truly brutal side and give me pain that is NOT of the cooing variety. This is kind of where personal quirks come into play. I might take the hand, the belt, and the flogger really well, but once he pulls out the lighter, I'm crying and begging. Your strokes may vary. So I don't think the dominant has to be no-limits; they just have to know their partner and what to do to elicit the desired reaction.
In a previous relationship, my top was not particularly sadistic. Neither of our needs really got met because I wanted more pain, he wanted less, and so both of us were unsatisfied at the end of a scene. That's a very incompatible equation, hence the first four words of this paragraph.
Oh, and the thought of two in one hole? Unfuckinbelievable. It's hot but I'm just not built for that. I'm such a 3-hole.
Netzach
>semiotics?
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She was in town that evening, friends with a good friend and between Dominants and interested in me, willing to be submissive towards me for the evening.
I liked her as a person, I don't mean scary in the sense of being incapacitated by fear, I'm simply saying that fear isn't the province of only submissive persons and that eroticizing fear and taboo should not be either.
Fear isn't a good basis for control, I agree, as a rule. But I'm not going to pretend a complete absence of that when playing along my own limits.
I liked her as a person, I don't mean scary in the sense of being incapacitated by fear, I'm simply saying that fear isn't the province of only submissive persons and that eroticizing fear and taboo should not be either.
Fear isn't a good basis for control, I agree, as a rule. But I'm not going to pretend a complete absence of that when playing along my own limits.
cellis
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You know I understand Netzach.... truely.... I have lead in the past... in a sense pushed His limits beyond what He thought.... Watched as He struggled to move me to the point where He wanted and I took Him further...
In a sense, I think this was hard for Him in the beginning... Having a preconceived notion of where He is suppose to go and finding Himself moved along the spectrum unexpectedly... It was not that I topped from the bottom but allowed Him the opportunity to move to that dark place He had only thought about... and not experienced.
I don't want it to seem like this was about me... because it is not... It is about the dance... it is about the flow...
In a sense, I think this was hard for Him in the beginning... Having a preconceived notion of where He is suppose to go and finding Himself moved along the spectrum unexpectedly... It was not that I topped from the bottom but allowed Him the opportunity to move to that dark place He had only thought about... and not experienced.
I don't want it to seem like this was about me... because it is not... It is about the dance... it is about the flow...
Pure
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Netzach said,
//On the opposite end of the spectrum, I've spent time with a girl who just cooed and smiled as I literally blackened her lilly white ass with a ruler-thin paddle, top to bottom. She just grinned like a fool as I yanked a zipper of clothespins off her body, where normal non-mutant people, as I call them, would all scream.
I don't know *why* it was a turn on for me to work over a body that clearly translated my sickest and heaviest work as giddy fun instead of something to scream about, only that it does and did.//
It's been said that the sadist does NOT need a masochist. I'm not sure I see the turn on. It sounds sorta like trying to scare someone with a snake, putting it up their shirt sleeve, and finding that they were raised [with] snakes as pets, and love the sensation. Well, switch to a tarantula.
Reminds me a bit of what I do before dental drilling; take a few pain killers. Here it's as if the bottom had shots of novacain in her butt, prior to its being whacked by you. To me that would be a drag, and i'd start major operations around the holes of her body; see what a 4 quart enema bag did for the sweet grin.
//On the opposite end of the spectrum, I've spent time with a girl who just cooed and smiled as I literally blackened her lilly white ass with a ruler-thin paddle, top to bottom. She just grinned like a fool as I yanked a zipper of clothespins off her body, where normal non-mutant people, as I call them, would all scream.
I don't know *why* it was a turn on for me to work over a body that clearly translated my sickest and heaviest work as giddy fun instead of something to scream about, only that it does and did.//
It's been said that the sadist does NOT need a masochist. I'm not sure I see the turn on. It sounds sorta like trying to scare someone with a snake, putting it up their shirt sleeve, and finding that they were raised [with] snakes as pets, and love the sensation. Well, switch to a tarantula.
Reminds me a bit of what I do before dental drilling; take a few pain killers. Here it's as if the bottom had shots of novacain in her butt, prior to its being whacked by you. To me that would be a drag, and i'd start major operations around the holes of her body; see what a 4 quart enema bag did for the sweet grin.
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Phoenix Stone
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Netzach said:
Sounds like a bit of
at the black and scaly monsters that can exist on the 'flip' side? Subs have 'em, too:/(Had a bit of fun letting one of mine loose a little once, in a terrific handson self-defense class, involving full-strength fights with Heavily padded assailants. After one of my fights a woman from the Projects kept staring at me. Finally said, 'hope you don't mind my saying... but you fight like a crazy woman.' Mind? Hell, no. Got nicknamed Hurricane. Highly recommend getting those monsters out on the floor and beating the hell out of them.)
Been rolling all of this, the various viewpoints around in my mind. Interesting stuff. Very. Partly because it's a kind of conundrum -- what scares a dom/me about an extreme sub? Like a chocoholic drowning in chocolate? Or is it, as some have implied, being 'undommed' as not truly being the indomitable dom. Or is it the loss of control? (My personal fave.) Or is it (my translation of AA's 2), either the fear that you will get stretched or goaded or whatever into being more cruel than is ok with you, or secondly, that having such a feast spread before you, when you've always (probably necessarily) exhibited such tight control, you'll let loose completely and then who knows?
(edited to add lots of stuff.)
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Kajira Callista
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OK its early but im gonna give this a shot, its been on my mind since yesterday afternoon. I am trained to *take the pain*without the screams or the out of control stuff i think you all are talking about. Being trained to be silent is probably not the best thing ive ever allowed done to me, because even if i know the person i am with wants to hear my cries, it doesnt happen. I have learned to turn it in a different direction. It's like a tornado in my head and my outward apperance is calm and submissive and quiet and ready for anything you wanna throw at me. Many times in life a person like me has to pretend with the screams etc. in order to fill the need they have. I find it more fulfilling when i can go through the pain calmly...to soak it in and feel it all. Why would i wanna pretend i dont like something that i do like? I dont at all see it as pushing a dominants limits, its more of being able to let that person pick and choose all they want without ever having to say stop...which to me makes me a good girl. I'm not talking about with just anyone or a one time thing, i'm talking about in an involved relationship. I can show someone me, same as Netzach got to see just a glimpse of that girl that day...but there is more to explore then just the physical with me when it comes to pain and you cant understand until you really know me. Just to add one last thing, i am unowned and i happen to be worth more then my salt as a sub. Being a masochist and being submissive are not in any way the same thing... and i take pride in being able to take both of those to whatever extreme a Master...the right Master wants.
