Taking the Pain

[Esclava]

<snip> Just to add one last thing, i am unowned and i happen to be worth more then my salt as a sub. Being a masochist and being submissive are not in any way the same thing... and i take pride in being able to take both of those to whatever extreme a Master...the right Master wants.

Because part of something I said in an earlier response is used above, I'll state here as I have said in another thread, "There is no room for "insult" in the search for knowledge."

Please don't read insult where there is none intended. I asked a question for clarification based on my current understanding. If I cannot ask questions for information, why does this site exist?

Esclava

 

[Kajira Callista]

Because part of something I said in an earlier response is used above, I'll state here as I have said in another thread, "There is no room for "insult" in the search for knowledge."

Please don't read insult where there is none intended. I asked a question for clarification based on my current understanding. If I cannot ask questions for information, why does this site exist?

Esclava

i found no insult in what you typed and i meant no insult in what i typed. my intention was to help you gain the knowledge you seek, its why i added it at the end... because you asked.

 

[Esclava]

i found no insult in what you typed and i meant no insult in what i typed. my intention was to help you gain the knowledge you seek, its why i added it at the end... because you asked.

I thank you very kindly!

Esclava

 

[Kajira Callista]

I thank you very kindly!

Esclava

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Re: Just a few thoughts, AA...

Please correct me if I'm wrong ...

First, let me say your help resembled an old game of BattleShip, meaning some red pegs used, a few more whites, but no repetitive hits. You did weave around the earless bunny that bounced and has continued to bounce around in my head. With that said, i'll answer yours first, then try a little on my own. This is going to be a multi-Djarum post and i've been dreading it.

Pushing the bottom through increasing thresholds of pain and past current limits also pushes limits for the Top.

i'll agree, if the two involved have relativley matching limits themselves.

oh hell, now i'm getting deja vu.

When a Top interacts with a bottom who is already past the current limits of the Top, is there a fear of not being in control of the situation that creeps in?

Yes, but perhaps, not for the reasons that you might think. i'll address that later.

Perhaps a fear that the bottom will not get what they need in order to respond in a way that feeds the needs of the Top? For example, if screaming in pain feeds a need for the Top and that doesn't happen because the maso-bottom needs more stimulation than the Top feels comfortable giving - does it affect the Top in such a way as to become indeciscive or, worse yet, does it push the Top to become uncharacteristically cruel to maintain the facade of the "Dom who knows no limits?" Might that make a Dom with a conscience, especially a sadistic one, fearful of how to proceed - because their lust is then tied up with the needs of the bottom?

Well, other than my animal rattling the hell out of the cage from the mention of screaming, let me approach slowly here, and with control. At the reasonable end, you "engage" the pyl until you see nothing but flush, and they haven't screamed. Keep in mind Pure made an excellent point.

"SQUEAK," let me open up my head and let you wander around for a bit.

"Ok, old leatherback ain't giving it up short of flaying. Do i want to go there? Do i want to invest me in taking care of a person potentially debillitated for a while. Do i want to do heavy damage to the property/lover of a peer that graciously offered the object's services? No? Ok, i can back down from the frontal assault and try another tactic. No matter how good a defense, a weakness exists to expolit. Let's check the sensitivity of her nape, flesh over her collar bones, breasts/nipples, flesh over her ribs, hip point, gentailia, anus, inner thighs, backs of her knees, bottoms of her feet, and earlobes. Let's whisper and get inside that head ..."

"Boot to the curb and slam," that's enough wandering for now. My point, and a nod to Pure, the irresistible force can overcome the immovable object and doesn't require you destroy it.

When the Top is "done", but the bottom is not, have the needs of the Top truly been met? Could that be part of the connection between the fear that the Top has been ineffective, and therefore their lust not sated? Or perhaps the scene ends with the Top feeling like the bottom is really in control?

i'm surprised Pure, Shadowsdream, or another of the Dom\mes didn't jump all over this one. If Ebonyfire had read this and deigned to answer, she would have responded both short and brutal. i think Netzach approached this slyly, and that's not meant to be insulting. Netz got what she wanted out of the exchange, and stopped. She may have wondered "wtf" off in a corner of her head, or even had a small smile at the corner of the mouth, but i don't think it lessened the fulfillment of any need she had and quenched. Hell, i don't know, Netz might not have sought any feeding. Although the PYL may wish the pyl to get something out of an exchange over the long run in an LTR, in this case ... hell i'll say it ... "What do i care what she gets? She's at my at my beckon call for this limited time."

Aw shit ...

i've autorotated onto the Island of Paradox surrounded by the Sea of Dichotomy.

Let's start with the good boy rules a lot of parents ingrained in some of us males.

"Thou shalt not hit a girl in: anger, cold-blood, nor self-defense. To do so shows lack of civility, and lowers one to the level of non-sentinent animals." i got a version of this at: school, home, and church after a playground incident in second grade. She got in the first three shots unprovoked, out of malice, and on target. After the third, i elbowed her in the gut hard enough to send her reeling across the sandbox to avoid her drop kicking my head through the uprights of a nearby swingset.

"Big boys don't cry, but if a girl does, stop what you're doing and fix the problem. If you're the problem, apologize profusely, and spin in circles trying to fix everything (regardless if it's broken, or not) to better than it was before she started crying." Yeah, this is a bit exaggerated, but to exaggerate, one usually starts with a grain of truth.

Taking a break to open another pack.

Edited to add the following after getting asked a few times.

• Pick Your Label: Top, Dominant, Master, Sadist, etc.
• pick your label: Bottom, Submissive, Slave, Masochist, etc. OR whatever kink you enjoy and care to name.

 

[Netzach]

Re: Re: Just a few thoughts, AA...

multi-Djarum

Breakfast of champions.


i think Netzach approached this slyly, and that's not meant to be insulting. Netz got what she wanted out of the exchange, and stopped. She may have wondered "wtf" off in a corner of her head, or even had a small smile at the corner of the mouth, but i don't think it lessened the fulfillment of any need she had and quenched. Hell, i don't know, Netz might not have sought any feeding. Although the PYL may wish the pyl to get something out of an exchange over the long run in an LTR, in this case ... hell i'll say it ... "What do i care what she gets? She's at my at my beckon call for this limited time."


You read me surprisingly well. Either you're invested in someone having an epiphany or you feel like making lots of marks and swinging wide. I don't feel the need to emotionally snag every rabbit I eat. Why tongue hockey when a handshake will do?



Aw shit ...

i've autorotated onto the Island of Paradox surrounded by the Sea of Dichotomy.

Let's start with the good boy rules a lot of parents ingrained in some of us males.

"Thou shalt not hit a girl in: anger, cold-blood, nor self-defense. To do so shows lack of civility, and lowers one to the level of non-sentinent animals." i got a version of this at: school, home, and church after a playground incident in second grade. She got in the first three shots unprovoked, out of malice, and on target. After the third, i elbowed her in the gut hard enough to send her reeling across the sandbox to avoid her drop kicking my head through the uprights of a nearby swingset.

"Big boys don't cry, but if a girl does, stop what you're doing and fix the problem. If you're the problem, apologize profusely, and spin in circles trying to fix everything (regardless if it's broken, or not) to better than it was before she started crying." Yeah, this is a bit exaggerated, but to exaggerate, one usually starts with a grain of truth.

Taking a break to open another pack.

I invite you to the island of contemporary womanhood, where you meet the love of your life, as masochistic and submissive as he may be you have been taught and taught well:

"If you piss him off, he will leave you."
"If you aren't nice to him, he'll leave you"
"If you don't let him have his way, he will leave you"

And of course, if he leaves you, then there's something wrong with you.

Breaking away from catering to your SO's kinks is really harder than anyone could have told me. I've been fortunate to meet up with another young Domme with sub husband and we can kind of commiserate on how much harder it all is with someone whose reaction you are deeply deeply vested in.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Re: Re: Just a few thoughts, AA...

i'm surprised Pure, Shadowsdream, or another of the Dom\mes didn't jump all over this one. If Ebonyfire had read this and deigned to answer, she would have responded both short and brutal.

I do so miss those short and brutal Eb posts. *grin*

Originally posted by Esclava
When the Top is "done", but the bottom is not, have the needs of the Top truly been met?

Originally posted by AngelicAssassin
Although the PYL may wish the pyl to get something out of an exchange over the long run in an LTR, in this case ... hell i'll say it ... "What do i care what she gets? She's at my at my beckon call for this limited time."

I was just thinking the very same thing. The way my dominant looks at it, and frankly the way *I* look at it, is that I am there providing a service and submitting to his will. If he has met his needs vis-a-vis the scene, then my service to him is complete. He reads me well enough, and knows me well enough to not take me out into subspace and leave me *hanging*, so to speak, but that's not to say he couldn't if it was his choice to do so.

He chooses to push my limits when and how he chooses, up to and including me using my safeword. I find those scenes to be some of the most amazing. A recent endurance scene came out of the blue and pushed me emotionally, mentally, and physically. I'm sure at that point, he cared that I got something out of it, and that he did as well. It was service of the highest order for me, service that brought me amazing growth.

I do not have any say in what we do, when we do it, or how we do it. I may respectfully beg for a needed beating, but whether or not I get it is entirely up to him, and often does not occur on any sort of timetable and in any sort of way that I may have expected.

The bottom line is that I submit and serve, and that's all I care to do.

Anything else would be a travesty.

~anelize

 

[AngelicAssassin]

A few thoughts ...

Breakfast of champions.

... and lunch, tea, dinner, midnight snack and bleary eyed before the sun rises shake the cobwebs loose for a coherent thought last ditch boost. Yeah, i know. Keep it up and you'll find the kidnapper and plot evil deeds.

You read me surprisingly well. Either you're invested in someone, having an epiphany, or you feel like making lots of marks ...

... or some might think to look behind the curtain. i don't miss often, and respect an intelligent mind.

I invite you to the island of contemporary womanhood, where you meet the love of your life, as masochistic and submissive as he may be you have been taught and taught well:

"If you piss him off, he will leave you."
"If you aren't nice to him, he'll leave you"
"If you don't let him have his way, he will leave you"

And of course, if he leaves you, then there's something wrong with you.

No, thank you. The island i landed on sucks pond water as is. Shall we both just hope Scotty beams us up quick? Not only is there no intelligent life on this island, it sucks the intelligence out of any visitor as well. i'd love to blame that on my difficulty finishing this opus, but procrastination time, like breaks in hell end quickly.

I've been fortunate to meet up with another young Domme with sub husband and we can kind of commiserate on how much harder it all is with someone whose reaction you are deeply deeply vested in.

Quietly blinking the eyes until they go carmel once again.

I do so miss those short and brutal Eb posts. *grin*

Don't we all ...

i think PB lays awake crying at night wondering "What if."

... The bottom line is that I submit and serve, and that's all I care to do.

Anything else would be a travesty.

~anelize

Congrats JG, hold on tight and don't let go.

Thanks to both of you for letting me procrastinate a little longer.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Re: Re: Just a few thoughts, AA...

I invite you to the island of contemporary womanhood, where you meet the love of your life, as masochistic and submissive as he may be you have been taught and taught well:

"If you piss him off, he will leave you."
"If you aren't nice to him, he'll leave you"
"If you don't let him have his way, he will leave you"

And of course, if he leaves you, then there's something wrong with you.

Well, well, holy sh-t. (Having that epiphany and no sex even required -- hope y'all don't mind.) I spent most of our marriage doing quite the opposite of the above. Testing? Funny, in my longterm relationships I'm even brattier, more confrontative, etc than you've seen here. Quite the sub, heh heh. So maybe that's it. This part was Easy for me. I coulda dommed no problem, given a guy who wanted it, and at least one of my exes most likely did.

But I wanted that level of trust. To sub I had to know I couldn't piss him off into leaving. Wouldn't risk being vulnerable like that otherwise. My, my.

Or it could be that the above was Not At all how I was raised in my immediate family. My mother was completely dominant. (My sister mentioned having found some bdsm literature but I never quite believed her. Hmmm....)

Breaking away from catering to your SO's kinks is really harder than anyone could have told me. I've been fortunate to meet up with another young Domme with sub husband and we can kind of commiserate on how much harder it all is with someone whose reaction you are deeply deeply vested in.

Yes, and this includes catering to vanilla when you wanna be a sub. And now that I finally got the guts to make it clear, I feel guilty for embarrassing him by taking so long. shit.

okay, carry on without me. I was just surprised to read Netzach talk about this and it set something off.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

AA don't know what in hell you're gonna say when you finish procrast...

...inating, but...

What I've always assumed is that for you it was the latter end of the dichotomy you posed -- a fear of what you would do if giving carte blanche with an unsinkable sub.

That at some point, with such an embarrassment of riches, your control would break. (And then, if nothing else, you'd have to clean up one hell of a mess.)

For Pure it seems to be limits and their permeability and such, and how much non-consent one can get away with (not legally, as that is a given but in some other way -- morally?).

You I always see talk about control, following protcol? Something. Honor? I've just assumed that you are afraid that given the opportunity you might do something, er, permanent. I know I could in some situations.

Anyway, have a good night.

edited to see if the post would make more since by removing the word 'not.' (bedtime.)

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Spew

It's later, and now the hard part.

When a Top interacts with a bottom who is already past the current limits of the Top, is there a fear of not being in control of the situation that creeps in?

i don't fear meeting a challenge from outside. As i've said, i see the pyl as at my beckon call. i don't exactly fear my interior, just have a healthy respect for that hunger. Netzach referred to her "black and scaly." If she's referring to a Black Mamba, i'll agree on speed and lethality. My orange/black/white and furry moves quickly and with little remorse. As i've accepted letting him out of the cage on occasion, i've also learned how fast i've got to move to keep him on a leash. Letting OBW&F romp gets me to sleep at night, but control makes sure i enjoy the dreams. i believe that answered your question as well PS.

... does it push the Top to become uncharacteristically cruel to maintain the facade of the "Dom who knows no limits?" Might that make a Dom with a conscience, especially a sadistic one, fearful of how to proceed ...

Conscience and Cruelty revisited.

i found a pen and ink jpg almost eight years ago that disturbed me. Alphonse and Gaston made mention of sticks & pyl sandwiches in this thread, They implied things that probably disturbed a few board members in a pleasant, if frightening way. Well, let's go a little further down the road. The caption of the jpg read "When she had nothing further to offer ..." Think of a pyl on her knees desperately trying to draw the pointy end of a stake, impaled from the other end, out of her mouth with the last of "her" fading away. The instant reaction should be repulsion, and i believe all of us feel that. Even the most sadistic of us have a common sense light blinking in the corner of our eye labelled, "what good is the pyl to me after said pyl lie broken with no hope of recovery?" Nonetheless, that image held a morbid attraction, not for the blood lust, but for her willingness to go that far to please. Slipping into the vanilla world for a moment, does anyone remember a common description of Uday Hussein? Add sadistic, mysogenistic, ultraviolent and totally deranged to that list, and you've just about got it.

Take a look at how i previously described my approach to a pyl out there beyond my normal limits. i may hear the siren's call, but i don't run up on the rocks. As i've said, control ... first, last, foremost, and that lets me sleep at night.

When the Top is "done", but the bottom is not, have the needs of the Top truly been met? Could that be part of the connection between the fear that the Top has been ineffective, and therefore their lust not sated? Or perhaps the scene ends with the Top feeling like the bottom is really in control?

Revisited. i spoke of Netzach's experience with a pyl i, oh hell with the word, assumed she didn't know that well, or hadn't engaged before. i offered my solution there.

Let's wander down the LTR road, because now we have a developing emotional involvement as well.

• i've enjoyed the gift of others' virginity. While operating under the good boy rules of making said act a loving memory for the partner, i know for a fact OWB&F got a kick out of the wince, muffled cry, and tears.
• A year into a fuck-filled, fun bf/gf relationship, i remember screwing (her word, not mine) at the end of a girlfriend-visiting-for-the-weekend at college. i had a slight alcohol induced buzz and knew the fuck had to be intense regardless of how sore she might be if i were to reach completion. OWB&F growled out loud for the first time. See part 2, rule 2 of the good boy rules for the aftermath.
• My ex had me pull her hair while we were dating once in mid-rut because she thought my hand moving to get better leverage sought that. OWB&F sat upright and literally purred, but i knew better.

See the pattern developing? At times, i took what i wished. My damned choice, correct? multi-layered pun intended.

Now try this. A PYL and pyl begin a courtship, both looking for something long term. Do you break out the spatulas and melt butter on high the first time you play? Not likely. You walk that slippery slope carefully. If the pyl starts crying the first time PYL induces pain, backing off ain't a bad thing if the pair have just started. Say the pyl kneels there sassy and waiting for a tail turned ruby red, but PYL ain't ready to go that far. Last i heard, PYL still calls the shots. Try a little, talk about it, and try a little more. More than sexual/kink needs get met here. Trust levels have to grow just as slowly. This ain't the long jump at the Olympics, and i believe the Gold Medal in this Life event more precious.

And now for the possible stoning offense. i believe PYLs and pyls gravitate towards each other just as lovers do in the vanilla world. When the right pair meet, they sense the "click." How many have looked at kittycat/Francisco and smiled? BTW, oh Sainted One, you can jump in here any damn time. How many have listened to osg tell of her relationship with her Master and thought "dayum!" JM and anelize kept theirs quiet for quite a while, but i can see anelize driving to the corner shop&rob at 2358 to get another sixpack with a smile on her face and a fresh flush on her tail. i believe the intelligent PYL finds a matching pyl, and with any luck, they click. If they don't, like any couple in the vanilla world, they deal, or go their separate ways.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Spew

Nonetheless, that image held a morbid attraction, not for the blood lust, but for her willingness to go that far to please.

i may hear the siren's call, but i don't run up on the rocks.

At times, i took what i wished.

Say the pyl kneels there sassy and waiting for a tail turned ruby red, but PYL ain't ready to go that far. Last i heard, PYL still calls the shots.

And now for the possible stoning offense.

If they don't, like any couple in the vanilla world, they deal, or go their separate ways.

These seem to me to be the relevant findings from your post. I'm gonna attempt parsing it out as it still feels like you are probing delicately, rather than going down that slippery slope (from the high mountain) with us. (Unless I'm just really dense, which is always possible. )

To the first point, I'll uncomfortably admit that the pic as described -- how do I put this subtly? -- piqued my interest for the same reason you gave for it piquing yours. Bet there are other subs who feel the same. (Not a pain slut, but a service slut, I guess.)

There still somes to be many possibilities here as to what exactly your dilemma, or point of curiosity, is. Are you saying what if what she wants is something too extreme, that you'd also want? Do you let her let you go that far, when it is what you both want?
Or are you saying that you believe that if you find someone like that she will be your match but what do you do to get her to slow do and be patient so you can both get there at your speed? Seems doubtful to me that this could be what you meant -- wouldn't you just tell her 'no, not yet'?

And what is the 'possible stoning offense' in that last paragraph? The idea that people meet their match whether they want to admit it or not, or the idea that people should deal or cut bait if it isn't working for them? (As to the latter, I'm obviously working on this one, and would simply argue that it isn't always clear if people are mismatched. There are gray areas. Lots of them. Partial match. And if you aren't clear yet what you want your own self? You seem to be, which might make this less of a problem for you. But what were you doing with girlfriends who minded a little growling and rough sex? Sheesh, unappreciative wimps! Well, I guess one woman's meat....)

Still confused. Will listen to the others, but if no one gets it, could you please explicate?

 

[Kajira Callista]

*bump* because this thread isnt done yet. i have questions but have been waiting on others responses to see if they get answered that way.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

A few answers

There still somes to be many possibilities here as to what exactly your dilemma, or point of curiosity, is.

i don't really think so. Something stirred from Netzach's first comment and i responded:

Scared because the t&rm might push you further than you think you can, perhaps should, go, or that you'll take off the leash and lose all manner of control?

Her answer

...I don't mean scary in the sense of being incapacitated by fear, I'm simply saying that fear isn't the province of only submissive persons and that eroticizing fear and taboo should not be either.

Fear isn't a good basis for control, I agree, as a rule. But I'm not going to pretend a complete absence of that when playing along my own limits.

provoked a few other thoughts,

Your response and my struggle to get out what i can't seem to ask correctly kept hammering in my head ...

and then Pure broke the lock.

... trying to scare someone with a snake, putting it up their shirt sleeve, and finding that they were raised [with] snakes as pets, and love the sensation. Well, switch to a tarantula.

Why throw someone in tank of pissed off sea snakes when you can dangle a Daddy-long-legs near them and get exactly what you wish? (And before anyone goes wandering off in the weeds, click the link)

My point, and a nod to Pure, the irresistible force can overcome the immovable object and doesn't require you destroy it.

As for your last set of questions,

• Are you saying what if what she wants is something too extreme, that you'd also want?
• Do you let her let you go that far, when it is what you both want?
• Or are you saying that you believe that if you find someone like that she will be your match but what do you do to get her to slow do and be patient so you can both get there at your speed?
• Seems doubtful to me that this could be what you meant -- wouldn't you just tell her 'no, not yet'?
• And what is the 'possible stoning offense' in that last paragraph?
• The idea that people meet their match whether they want to admit it or not, or the idea that people should deal or cut bait if it isn't working for them? ...
• And if you aren't clear yet what you want your own self? You seem to be, which might make this less of a problem for you. But what were you doing with girlfriends who minded a little growling and rough sex?

Life is a yo-yo, with lots of ups/downs, forwards/backwards, and an occasional around the world. Even when you've got a sleeper, the yo-yo continues spinning and with a flick of your wrist springs back to your hand. You find the tricks that please you with a lot of practice and a lot of exploration.

Finally, one last bit of advice for shy, if your PYL hasn't said the following, imagine his voice saying,

i stand before you with these two hands, my heart, and my mind. i will take you to the abyss, and then nudge you right over the edge. You need to trust that i will be right there holding onto you and not let you fall.

then trust him to do so.

 

[catalina_francisco]

*bump* because this thread isnt done yet. i have questions but have been waiting on others responses to see if they get answered that way.

Bump for a good thread not seen for awhile, and impatient to know if KC's questions have been answered as yet?(presumably elsewhere if they have)

Catalina

 

[stirbird]

OK its early but im gonna give this a shot, its been on my mind since yesterday afternoon. I am trained to *take the pain*without the screams or the out of control stuff i think you all are talking about. Being trained to be silent is probably not the best thing ive ever allowed done to me, because even if i know the person i am with wants to hear my cries, it doesnt happen. I have learned to turn it in a different direction. It's like a tornado in my head and my outward apperance is calm and submissive and quiet and ready for anything you wanna throw at me. Many times in life a person like me has to pretend with the screams etc. in order to fill the need they have. I find it more fulfilling when i can go through the pain calmly...to soak it in and feel it all. Why would i wanna pretend i dont like something that i do like? I dont at all see it as pushing a dominants limits, its more of being able to let that person pick and choose all they want without ever having to say stop...which to me makes me a good girl. I'm not talking about with just anyone or a one time thing, i'm talking about in an involved relationship. I can show someone me, same as Netzach got to see just a glimpse of that girl that day...but there is more to explore then just the physical with me when it comes to pain and you cant understand until you really know me. Just to add one last thing, i am unowned and i happen to be worth more then my salt as a sub. Being a masochist and being submissive are not in any way the same thing... and i take pride in being able to take both of those to whatever extreme a Master...the right Master wants.

Ok, I will stab at this, although I think it's going to be in the dark. My former master and I once knew a woman who was like you on the surface. Her "trainer" had disliked noise and even movement from a submissive so she was completely unresponsive in a scene. Very stoic, held very still. She couldn't help a tiny involuntary sound or two, but that was about it. For her personally this wasn't a good thing, because along with the outward demonstrations she was holding in a great many emotions that the pain caused. She had become incapable of feeling...or allowing herself to feel. (The "trainer" didn't like her emotions, either.) Anger was the primary one she was repressing, then sorrow. And she had begun to shut down spontaneous positive emotions as well. My dom and a female dominant friend worked with her to get her to start expressing herself in response to pain. With her, it was simple: as soon as she started being able to move a little and make louder noises in response to increasingly stronger stimulation (they were also pouring on the humilation, mostly in an attempt to get her to loosen up and respond), she started to feel again. Dam burst, which had been the goal.

I don't think your situation is like hers, KC, although it might be. But it sounds different. When you say you take the pain "in a different direction" than screams and cries, what does that mean? Where does it (the pain) or you (the person feeling the pain) go? What do you do with it?

Also, most people have limits to their stoicism, however extreme. Do you think that if the pain were bad enough you would scream or try to get away? (Imagine, to borrow a graphic image from a Steven King novel, someone slowly sawing your foot off, I mean very slowly, and then cauterizing the stump with a blowtorch) Or what if (this time the inspiration is American Psycho) they slowly yanked all your teeth out without anesthsia--well, after breaking them with a hammer (Ilsa of the SS image) first? Could you hold still without moving or making a sound and channel something that extreme to someplace different than a visible or audible response?

 

[Kajira Callista]

I don't think your situation is like hers, KC, although it might be. But it sounds different. When you say you take the pain "in a different direction" than screams and cries, what does that mean? Where does it (the pain) or you (the person feeling the pain) go? What do you do with it?

Also, most people have limits to their stoicism, however extreme. Do you think that if the pain were bad enough you would scream or try to get away? (Imagine, to borrow a graphic image from a Steven King novel, someone slowly sawing your foot off, I mean very slowly, and then cauterizing the stump with a blowtorch) Or what if (this time the inspiration is American Psycho) they slowly yanked all your teeth out without anesthsia--well, after breaking them with a hammer (Ilsa of the SS image) first? Could you hold still without moving or making a sound and channel something that extreme to someplace different than a visible or audible response?

The pain itself is a release for me, it breaks down walls and opens me...cleansing i guess would describe it well. I dont feel the need to say ouch this hurts, it doesnt hurt, its an overwhelming sense of pleasure to me. You will get tears though, usually from frustration at myself for not being able to vocalize how good things feel, but those are also cleansing to me.

Response to the last part of your post and a more in depth explaination of me. ( if you dont ask i dont tell is my usual posting style). Screaming yelling cursing kicking biting and spitting are all things i have been known to do if i dont or cant get to a certain place before pain becomes intense. It's not subspace, its just the pleasure place i suppose.
If during a scene a dominant was doing the things you listed i probably wouldnt react by screaming or trying to get away, there comes a point during play that a dominant holds all of me in their hands and when i trust it is completely. Im not saying that having these things done to me is something i would not regret after lol what i am saying is that whatever the dominant i am with wishes....
Also if it were done in an every day setting better bet your ass that the other person would be minus a limb or two and/or without teeth.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Bump for a good thread not seen for awhile, and impatient to know if KC's questions have been answered as yet?(presumably elsewhere if they have)

Catalina

nope, not answered yet.

 

[stirbird]

The pain itself is a release for me, it breaks down walls and opens me...cleansing i guess would describe it well. I dont feel the need to say ouch this hurts, it doesnt hurt, its an overwhelming sense of pleasure to me. You will get tears though, usually from frustration at myself for not being able to vocalize how good things feel, but those are also cleansing to me.

Response to the last part of your post and a more in depth explaination of me. ( if you dont ask i dont tell is my usual posting style). Screaming yelling cursing kicking biting and spitting are all things i have been known to do if i dont or cant get to a certain place before pain becomes intense. It's not subspace, its just the pleasure place i suppose.
If during a scene a dominant was doing the things you listed i probably wouldnt react by screaming or trying to get away, there comes a point during play that a dominant holds all of me in their hands and when i trust it is completely. Im not saying that having these things done to me is something i would not regret after lol what i am saying is that whatever the dominant i am with wishes....
Also if it were done in an every day setting better bet your ass that the other person would be minus a limb or two and/or without teeth.

Thanks for the explanation. I have never gone to a pleasure place (maybe it's a pleasure palace--only royalty admitted!) but I think I know other masochists who do. I don't go into subspace much either, that's my training at work. Gee, I never get to have any fun!

Gotta follow up: what is the difference, to you, between the place where you go and subspace?

About the other person minus a limb or two and/or without teeth...I have a submissive friend who is similarly, er, capable. Men who see her as this small weak half-sized thing, easily overcome, have no idea of the risk they'd be taking...

 

[Kajira Callista]

Thanks for the explanation. I have never gone to a pleasure place (maybe it's a pleasure palace--only royalty admitted!) but I think I know other masochists who do. I don't go into subspace much either, that's my training at work. Gee, I never get to have any fun!

Gotta follow up: what is the difference, to you, between the place where you go and subspace?

About the other person minus a limb or two and/or without teeth...I have a submissive friend who is similarly, er, capable. Men who see her as this small weak half-sized thing, easily overcome, have no idea of the risk they'd be taking...

subspace feels like you are drugged, your head is not clear at all....like your mind doesnt want to understand what is happening to your body.
The place i go is clear and i can feel everything see everything smell everything. more focus or abilty to focus then what i call subspace.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Bump for a good thread not seen for awhile ...

Wholeheartedly agree, and the admiration for you and 'Cisco hasn't changed.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

KC you and I go to a similar space. My focus is razor sharp and every sensation is thrilling. Call it what you will but to me that "space" is NEEDED so that I can fully acknowledge what is happening to me and determine how to respond to it.

subspace feels like you are drugged, your head is not clear at all....like your mind doesnt want to understand what is happening to your body.
The place i go is clear and i can feel everything see everything smell everything. more focus or abilty to focus then what i call subspace.

 

[shy slave]

Just re-read this thread.

When I posted I was with my ex, it turned out he was not what I needed in my life.
Being new into BDSM and being fed to the wolves can be difficult at times.
He beat my ass and legs until they were covered in blue/black bruises and I thought that was the way D/s relationships worked.

Time moves on and Andante is different person in evey possible way.

He likes to inflict pain but the marks left have a different appeal to him, they are not of such importance.

Ironically I now want pain, I don't like it but I recognise the release feelings that KC talks about.
In an early post she suggested I 'feel the pain' and it won't hurt in the same way.
She was right, I stay focused and can take much easier than I could because I am not anticipating it in the same way.

Two different sessions with Andante had me craving a longer session; not necessarily a more pain filled session but longer in time. I actually relaxed and enjoyed it.

It opened a door in my head that allows me to wander around in fantasyland and think of pain sessions.

In some ways Andante is more sadistic than my ex, but he is also more patient and very polite about what he wants and expects, that takes some of the real fear of pain away.

Life changes, I think I am slowly turning into KC, when I getto the point of thinking I am like catalina in terms of pain I will let you know, but don't holld your breath for that one; even if you do like it lol

 

[catalina_francisco]

Wholeheartedly agree, and the admiration for you and 'Cisco haven't changed.

We struggle on, but then as I said to someone today, how boring it would be if it were as easy as saying 'hey presto' and you were the perfect PYL/pyl who could do it all without effort and commitment...lol, doesn't stop a lot of people from trying to create that illusion though.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Life changes, I think I am slowly turning into KC, when I getto the point of thinking I am like catalina in terms of pain I will let you know, but don't holld your breath for that one; even if you do like it lol

LOL, I don't know what you mean!! I actually look up to both you and KC.

Catalina