The Allure of the Forbidden: How willing are you to use taboo as a driver of erotic tension?

[SeraphNocturne]

The old movie production code (the Hayes Office) required that criminals pay the price for their crimes. I'm not sure if that really made much difference, but it was there. Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer are getting kind of tiresome by now, I guess. What was the name of that TV show about a serial killer who tries to help the authorities? That was the hook for Dr. Lector too; he was helping to catch another serial killer, so was that okay?

I haven't read or seen either version of The Lovely Bones, but at first glance it seems a bit absurd.

I think you may be thinking of Dexter? Kind of hard to dislike a handsome murderer who targets the scum of the universe, you know? In the case of Dr. Lector... I've got a penchant for despicable characters who are still somehow quite intriguing and bizarrely captivating--you don't want to like them, but you just can't help it.

I agree with both of those serial killers in particular being far too publicized and romanticized. I was never a fan of Bundy, or Dahmer, and I don't really see the appeal or fascination with either of them--or the Mansons. I think again, that's just the separation of fiction and reality for me. When it's fantasy its one thing but as soon as it moves into the real world category, I hit the terminate all button. It's a no go.

I won't recommend The Love Bones. It was well written and the movie adaptation was spot on, but the content is just truly repulsive and sorrowful. Never again.

 

[EmilyMiller]

So you got away with the underage role play. I wouldn't think that would fly, based on what used to be in the rules. With the rumored bots, it all becomes kind of moot.

The characters were already established to be 18+ (normally older) there was no underage role play. Just daddy / daughter. Maybe the lg bit is moot.

Em

What do you mean, not actual horses? A fantasy about horses? Two guys in a horse suit?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Social privilege/underprivilege stories. Perhaps have the highest squick factor as many are uncomfortable even facing the reality of privilege/underprivilege boundaries. Also may have the smallest, and yet at the same time quite dedicated, audience. Yet even Disney has tackled it several times (think Lady and the Tramp for example). Privilege boundaries may be drawn based on wealth, race, legal rights, and other matters, and often several such matters at the same time.

Interesting example. There are a lot of stories around that have a privilege/underprivilege theme, but they don't all use it the same way.

There's an escapist approach, usually where Privileged Person and Underprivileged Person realise they're Not So Different After All, and solve one another's problems. (Which are often, respectively: lack of love, lack of money). But escapism can also be: privileged person uses privilege to get all the sex they want, as seen from the privileged person's POV.

Then there's the social commentary style, which uses that theme to say something about why some folk are privileged and some aren't, and/or look at the consequences of that disparity. Commentary can include: privileged person uses privilege to get all the sex they want, as seen from the underprivileged person's POV.

And then quite a few that have some mix of the above, in various proportions.

 

[Duleigh]

The B-52 story - really? If only married sex was okay, at least 90% of Lit might disappear. Was the plane actually in the air? Did that bother them, although it seems irrelevant?

The was a true story about a bad train crash in Mexico (1972) where the crew had prostitutes with them in the cab.

My story, The Pilot's Consent Switch, is based on some actual events, my favorite being trying to load a B-52 in -30 wind chills with the SAC IG breathing down your neck and the air crew getting in the way and refusing to help (I hate when that happened). It was inspired by the antics of the first female B-52 pilot in the USAF

I made sure the names I used didn't reflect anyone currently alive, I even used the tail number of a dead B-52 just so the incident can't be traced back to me

 

[Bramblethorn]

Crossing the line is the secret ingredient to great erotica. And explaining "the conflict in the heart" as Faulkner put it (i think it was him, i read that quote somewhere about literature).

There has to be a level of 'this can't happen in real life' to make it hot, while also making the characters and the setting realistic.

I agree that this is a way to write great erotica; I don't agree that it's the only way. Some of the best stories I've read were ones that didn't contain anything particularly fantastical, but which resonated with my own experiences.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

Interesting example. There are a lot of stories around that have a privilege/underprivilege theme, but they don't all use it the same way.

There's an escapist approach, usually where Privileged Person and Underprivileged Person realise they're Not So Different After All, and solve one another's problems. (Which are often, respectively: lack of love, lack of money). But escapism can also be: privileged person uses privilege to get all the sex they want, as seen from the privileged person's POV.

Then there's the social commentary style, which uses that theme to say something about why some folk are privileged and some aren't, and/or look at the consequences of that disparity. Commentary can include: privileged person uses privilege to get all the sex they want, as seen from the underprivileged person's POV.

And then quite a few that have some mix of the above, in various proportions.

Correct. In my stories, which are D/s, privilege is another (never the only) reason why "D" get all the sex they want on the terms they want. And "s" has to suck it up. In extreme cases "s" is a tool for "D"s pleasure. But that may be just at the beginning.

Then if the story is one of my HEA or HFN ones, then the escapist approach takes over at the end.

 

[EmilyMiller]

What do you mean, not actual horses? A fantasy about horses? Two guys in a horse suit?

You’ll have to wait for Caputpedes - A Tale of the Space-whores (with apologies to Conrad) to be published. Already ran it past Laurel, so hopefully OK.

Em

 

[SeraphNocturne]

I wouldn't call myself a fan of serial killers, intrigued by them or curious about them, yeah, but I'm not in awe of their misdeeds or existence. I'm more fascinated by their thought process because it's so opposite what mine is. I'd rather die than kill so I can't fathom how they got to a point where murder was fine by them many times over. Learning about how they were with friends and family vs the brutality they inflicted on others has led me down paths with some of my antagonists that I don't think I could've gotten to on my own because I just don't think like that naturally.

Besides, I had a pretty fucked up childhood that turned these people and their stories into survival tools for me. I've talked people out of killing me more than once, lol.

I'm inclined to agree with you, the psychological aspect is really the only thing interesting when it comes to straight from the front page serial killers of our times. Morbid fascination at best though... certainly never a fan, and I really don't condone all of the over-exposure that things like Netflix series and unsolicited documents stir up. It's so disrespectful to the survivors and the families of the victims.

I'd lie to say I'm not intrigued by your background experience regarding the topic, but I'm not one to pry. I will say as I would with any survivor of a harrowing or traumatic life-event; your strength to even speak on the topic is admirable.

 

[gunhilltrain]

My story, The Pilot's Consent Switch, is based on some actual events, my favorite being trying to load a B-52 in -30 wind chills with the SAC IG breathing down your neck and the air crew getting in the way and refusing to help (I hate when that happened). It was inspired by the antics of the first female B-52 pilot in the USAF

I made sure the names I used didn't reflect anyone currently alive, I even used the tail number of a dead B-52 just so the incident can't be traced back to me

Everyone here is rather concerned about stories being traced back to them, that's their choice. Anyway, sometimes I miss never having been in the military but at other times, I don't.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I wouldn't call myself a fan of serial killers, intrigued by them or curious about them, yeah, but I'm not in awe of their misdeeds or existence. I'm more fascinated by their thought process because it's so opposite what mine is. I'd rather die than kill so I can't fathom how they got to a point where murder was fine by them many times over. Learning about how they were with friends and family vs the brutality they inflicted on others has led me down paths with some of my antagonists that I don't think I could've gotten to on my own because I just don't think like that naturally.

Besides, I had a pretty fucked up childhood that turned these people and their stories into survival tools for me. I've talked people out of killing me more than once, lol.

Somehow what's been bugging me are mass shooters, especially the ones who are teens in high school. (There seems to be one every two weeks now.) High school may suck, but is it necessary to kill everybody? Also, it's strange how many of them then kill themselves or choose suicide by cop. The few who don't, like Nikolas Cruz, seem to go blank afterwards and have no real "exit plan." This testimony by one of the parents of the Cruz victims is weirdly fascinating, and Cruz has to listen to all of it.

(Anyway, you don't seem to be kidding about talking people out of killing you.)

 

[Duleigh]

I wouldn't call myself a fan of serial killers, intrigued by them or curious about them, yeah, but I'm not in awe of their misdeeds or existence. I'm more fascinated by their thought process because it's so opposite what mine is. I'd rather die than kill so I can't fathom how they got to a point where murder was fine by them many times over. Learning about how they were with friends and family vs the brutality they inflicted on others has led me down paths with some of my antagonists that I don't think I could've gotten to on my own because I just don't think like that naturally.

Besides, I had a pretty fucked up childhood that turned these people and their stories into survival tools for me. I've talked people out of killing me more than once, lol.

Dexter sickens me because it's just torture porn, serial killers are a blight on humanity, but they happen in EVERY society because not all brains are wired properly. The fact that they're not dealt with properly if caught just encourages more.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Broadly speaking, and I believe as the OP means it, a "taboo" is a social or religious custom that forbids indulging in or associating oneself with certain practices. I think it's fair to say the following are to some degree "taboo" among the majority of people in modern society:

Incest
Pedophilia
Snuff
Torture
Rape
Being naked in public
Bestiality
Pee/Scat
BDSM, although it may depend

In real life, most Incest takes place before you're "of age," for here that's off-limits. So, we don't write about that here.
Pedophilia is a big no-no here.
Snuff is not allowed on this site.
Rape is allowed (sort of) if the one who's raped gets something out of the event).
Beastiality, again, is not allowed.

I'm not all that concerned with what one considers what Taboo is elsewhere, as I was talking about Taboo we can talk explore here.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I get we are a diverse set of writers with all sort of interests, kinks and fetishes represented. But many of those are still off limits to many others both within and even more so outside of Lit. Extra marital sex--or what a religious type would call "adultery"--clearly is an example. Outside of swingers communities and the like. Relationships across privilege boundaries is a whispered, but still existing one (ask Meghan Markle), even if some of the most abhorrent institutionalized examples of that are no longer with us (Apartheid, Jim Crow, etc). True fact: some sexual practices, like gay sex, anal sex, and non marital cohabitation, have only very, very recently been struck off the laws in some states and counties in the US. Even if they had not been enforced for decades. So anything a large enough group of people would look at with at least silent disapproval, even if some of us accept it as part of our daily sexual lives.

Interracial shouldn't be Taboo. Just my two cents on that subject.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I think I mentioned that "snuff" material would qualify. I guess American Psycho is on the border of snuff, unless one thinks it's entirely a fantasy by the narrator. Non-consent is kind of uncertain of Lit, being frowned upon but not entirely banned, I suppose. I can't be sure in every case. There is a NonConsent / Reluctance category, which seems like a rather "squishy" way of describing it. There are plenty of coercion concepts in Story Ideas, although I suspect most of them don't get written.

As I said before, snuff isn't allowed here, so it isn't something we can explore at this site. Non-consent here is limited by the rules of what is acceptable. It can be explored, perhaps not in a manner as some would like to write it, but it can be written about. As to American Psycho, the novel has been called a written pron movie, and the movie has been called excessive.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

There has been a lot of discussion of death and murder like situations as it intersects with sex, and it is indeed interesting that it is "taboo" to add death and murder to sex, but it seems ok to add sex to death and murder. What I mean by that, is if you are writing/producing a horror, serial killer, or similar work, sexuality often seems to make it in, sometimes in an over the top way, and that is "ok". You do the reverse and it is taboo for publishing purposes.

Some genres, like vampire horror, basically exist at the intersection of sexuality and mortality. And have been exploring things like D/s dynamics even before that was a named thing. For what it worth I even think vampire fiction was the gateway to BDSM for me. My tastes still reflect that, when not too subtly my Dommes often sport crimson lips and smoky eyes when they are set to vamp on some hapless sap.

The comment that most real life incest is between "under age" partners rings true. Well, first, Lit's under age line of 18 is a product of US puritanism. Many European countries' age of consent is 16. Some are even 14. As far as the prevalence of underage incest, despite the pushback already received from some, you put enough newly hormonal siblings or cousins together, pairs eager to explore their sexual awakening with a readily and privately available counterpart, and a number of those sexual opportunities are likely to be exploited.

You can even imagine a young teen boy whose close female relatives of the same approximate age outnumber him so substantially, he would have his pickings of consanguine sexual partners as he trades his favoritism for their favors. Sounds like a Lit male fantasy right? Of course you could never publish such a story on Lit.

 

[gunhilltrain]

As I said before, snuff isn't allowed here, so it isn't something we can explore at this site. Non-consent here is limited by the rules of what is acceptable. It can be explored, perhaps not in a manner as some would like to write it, but it can be written about. As to American Psycho, the novel has been called a written pron movie, and the movie has been called excessive.

I've never read American Psycho or seen the movie. I've read a few reviews, which is sufficient. The non-consent rules on here are sort of a cop-out. I'm pretty sure that few real rape victims, female or male, truly change their minds in the middle of it. But the category exists. I might rename it "Non-Consent Role Play," but that's not within my control.

 

[gunhilltrain]

There has been a lot of discussion of death and murder like situations as it intersects with sex, and it is indeed interesting that it is "taboo" to add death and murder to sex, but it seems ok to add sex to death and murder. What I mean by that, is if you are writing/producing a horror, serial killer, or similar work, sexuality often seems to make it in, sometimes in an over the top way, and that is "ok". You do the reverse and it is taboo for publishing purposes.

Some genres, like vampire horror, basically exist at the intersection of sexuality and mortality. And have been exploring things like D/s dynamics even before that was a named thing. For what it worth I even think vampire fiction was the gateway to BDSM for me. My tastes still reflect that, when not too subtly my Dommes often sport crimson lips and smoky eyes when they are set to vamp on some hapless sap.

The comment that most real life incest is between "under age" partners rings true. Well, first, Lit's under age line of 18 is a product of US puritanism. Many European countries' age of consent is 16. Some are even 14. As far as the prevalence of underage incest, despite the pushback already received from some, you put enough newly hormonal siblings or cousins together, pairs eager to explore their sexual awakening with a readily and privately available counterpart, and a number of those sexual opportunities are likely to be exploited.

You can even imagine a young teen boy whose close female relatives of the same approximate age outnumber him so substantially, he would have his pickings of consanguine sexual partners as he trades his favoritism for their favors. Sounds like a Lit male fantasy right? Of course you could never publish such a story on Lit.

Lit is a mish-mash of contradictions, mostly based on whatever Laurel decided years ago. She doesn't seem interested in changing it (it's been more than twenty years now, I think). I guess true teen to teen incest is pretty common, but it won't fly here. Eighteen-year-old guys banging and even impregnating their moms is a staple here, although it doesn't do anything for me. Dad to daughter relations seem less common, but I haven't done a survey.

The vampire as Domme is a new one for me, but I have no problem with it if it's just a game. Some BDSM fans like the 24-hour-per-day "slave" lifestyle idea, which does happen although it seems excessive to me but there it is. The male "maid/cross-dressing" concept seems to be big, although I can't see what's erotic about cleaning someone else's bathroom. I know, we've discussed how humiliation is underrated as an erotic kink.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Some genres, like vampire horror, basically exist at the intersection of sexuality and mortality. And have been exploring things like D/s dynamics even before that was a named thing. For what it worth I even think vampire fiction was the gateway to BDSM for me. My tastes still reflect that, when not too subtly my Dommes often sport crimson lips and smoky eyes when they are set to vamp on some hapless sap.

Vampire is a relatively free category as long as the participants are LIT age appropriate. You can suck the victim dry, and they die. Maybe they become a vampire, maybe they don't. You kill the vampire right after sex, and no one blinks. I had the plant invader story, A Kiss Before We Part, she turned her lover into the fertilizer for her offspring. But on Smashwords, my tale, Baptism in Blood, was rejected by the Vampire "Family" who had sex with each other. It's quite obvious no one is a blood relation in the story, but they refused to distribute it off-site because of "true" incest. I think Mary had some issue with one of her stories there about a vampire because he died right after being fucked all night. (Mary's story was inspired, obliviously, from the first screen adaptation of Dracula, Nosferatu)

 

[MillieDynamite]

I've never read American Psycho or seen the movie. I've read a few reviews, which is sufficient. The non-consent rules on here are sort of a cop-out. I'm pretty sure that few real rape victims, female or male, truly change their minds in the middle of it. But the category exists. I might rename it "Non-Consent Role Play," but that's not within my control.

I've read it and watched it, and it is one fucked up movie. But, of course, I loved it.

 

[MillieDynamite]

My ode to Jo

My story is much too sad to be told
But practically everyone leaves me totally cold
I get no kick from sucking a dicky
Mere penis doesn't please my clittie
So tell me why should it be true
That I get a kick out of you?

I get no kick in the sack
Flying too high with some fellow that’s a hack
This is my idea of nothing to do
Yet I get a kick out of you

I get a kick every time I see you
Standing there before me
I get a kick because you to adore me
And so it goes all fingers lips tongues
Pussies and I become so unstrung

Oh, my yes, I get a kick out of you

 

[SimonDoom]

I've never read American Psycho or seen the movie. I've read a few reviews, which is sufficient. The non-consent rules on here are sort of a cop-out. I'm pretty sure that few real rape victims, female or male, truly change their minds in the middle of it. But the category exists. I might rename it "Non-Consent Role Play," but that's not within my control.

If you renamed it Non Consent Role Play, then people wouldn't enjoy it as much. That's the whole point. Entertainment. People don't really want to be raped, but they want to fantasize about really being raped. But if you put a nice tidy box around it to make it crystal clear that it's not REALLY nonconsent, then you take away the fantasy.

 

[MillieDynamite]

If you renamed it Non Consent Role Play, then people wouldn't enjoy it as much. That's the whole point. Entertainment. People don't really want to be raped, but they want to fantasize about really being raped. But if you put a nice tidy box around it to make it crystal clear that it's not REALLY nonconsent, then you take away the fantasy.

But you can reveal it at the end, and they don't get pissed at you.

 

[lc69hunter]

Interracial shouldn't be Taboo. Just my two cents on that subject.

However, my second wife was a redhead from the deep South, and for her it was the taboo aspect that she loved. Every year or so, she, as she would put it, had a taste for some chocolate dessert. For me, it was just the color contrast that made it so erotic.

 

[MillieDynamite]

However, my second wife was a redhead from the deep South, and for her it was the taboo aspect that she loved. Every year or so, she, as she would put it, had a taste for some chocolate dessert. For me, it was just the color contrast that made it so erotic.

I didn't say it wasn't still taboo for some, I said it shouldn't be. And good for her.

 

[gordo12]

I personally find it more interesting to write stories where the erotic magnetism reaches past taboo lines.
So where do you fall in your willingness to use the allure of the forbidden? Use it all the time? Wont touch it with a ten foot pole? Might do some kinds but never, ever some other kinds?

I agree. I love the tension generated when you pass the taboo line. But my own personal squick rears up over incest. I don't care for it; the reality of it transcends any writing value to me. But race or a loving wife getting a little too loving. Bring it on!