The Female Gaze

[BelleCanzuto]

Before the lockdowns I went to a cross dressers’ night club in San Francisco. There were several other people like me who don’t pass. A bunch of us were sharing drinks at a table, basking in openness like turtles on a log when I looked around at all of the strong hands and hairy forearms. Whew! You know you’re queer when the combination of lace and snaggled fingernails turns you on!

Great thread, girl!

Lace, snaggled fingernails and the confidence that comes with being in a place where people just accept you, or the confidence that can come when you're able to stop giving a shit about what anyone else thinks. That's very sexy!

 

[AlexBailey]

Lace, snaggled fingernails and the confidence that comes with being in a place where people just accept you, or the confidence that can come when you're able to stop giving a shit about what anyone else thinks. That's very sexy!

Yeah it is!

Female gaze, male gaze... what about queer gaze?

I started a thread about going out to sissy/crossdresser night at a San Francisco club. It is that space. The space where people just accept you. But rather than not giving a shit, they are supportive and helpful.

Check it out:

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1514842.

It only got a few views and zero responses.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

...A bunch of us were sharing drinks at a table, basking in openness like turtles on a log when I looked around at all of the strong hands and hairy forearms. Whew! You know you’re queer when the combination of lace and snaggled fingernails turns you on!

You're outrageous

What stickygirl said.

Yeah it is!

Female gaze, male gaze... what about queer gaze?...

So what do you think a movie would look like through a queer gaze? Is it even more problematic than the male/female gaze in terms of generalizing?

 

[stickygirl]

"In cinema, the male gaze looks while the female body is looked at; the gaze can come from the audience, from a male character within the film, or from the camera itself."
Which of course hasn't got us any closer to female/feminine/empathetic gaze!

So what do you think a movie would look like through a queer gaze? Is it even more problematic than the male/female gaze in terms of generalizing?

Posts have been largely split between examining how personal experience can affect the way an individual can react emotionally to a scene/story, and then falling back on the age old conundrum of male v female myths, stereotypes and prejudices. Queer gaze has a place and there have been a number of recent films that have look through a transgender lens, but often as a means of informing through story-telling.

I had to re-read a paragraph from the Vulture article a couple of times
"What is the female gaze, then? It’s emotional and intimate. It sees people as people. It seeks to empathize rather than to objectify. (Or not.) It’s respectful, it’s technical, it hasn’t had a chance to develop, it tells the truth, it involves physical work, it’s feminine and unashamed, it’s part of an old-fashioned gender binary, it should be studied and developed, it should be destroyed, it will save us, it will hold us back. The female cinematographers involved in the project have as many opinions on the female gaze and its helpfulness (or lack thereof) as you might expect from a group of talented, thoughtful, highly trained people who are more than just “female cinematographers.”

I think this is a fair assessment and we can breathe a sigh of relief that it is a not a question that can be easily answered: it's still work in progress. The fun part will be seeing what Coppola, Gerwig, Sciamma and the long list of other talent will bring us next.

When you look at me, who do I look at?

 

[MelissaBaby]

"In cinema, the male gaze looks while the female body is looked at; the gaze can come from the audience, from a male character within the film, or from the camera itself."
Which of course hasn't got us any closer to female/feminine/empathetic gaze!


Posts have been largely split between examining how personal experience can affect the way an individual can react emotionally to a scene/story, and then falling back on the age old conundrum of male v female myths, stereotypes and prejudices. Queer gaze has a place and there have been a number of recent films that have look through a transgender lens, but often as a means of informing through story-telling.

I had to re-read a paragraph from the Vulture article a couple of times
"What is the female gaze, then? It’s emotional and intimate. It sees people as people. It seeks to empathize rather than to objectify. (Or not.) It’s respectful, it’s technical, it hasn’t had a chance to develop, it tells the truth, it involves physical work, it’s feminine and unashamed, it’s part of an old-fashioned gender binary, it should be studied and developed, it should be destroyed, it will save us, it will hold us back. The female cinematographers involved in the project have as many opinions on the female gaze and its helpfulness (or lack thereof) as you might expect from a group of talented, thoughtful, highly trained people who are more than just “female cinematographers.”

I think this is a fair assessment and we can breathe a sigh of relief that it is a not a question that can be easily answered: it's still work in progress. The fun part will be seeing what Coppola, Gerwig, Sciamma and the long list of other talent will bring us next.

When you look at me, who do I look at?

I feel that the important thing about promoting the female gaze is not to create a counter to the male gaze, but to use it as a wedge to break down the concept of institutionalized gaze all together and create more space for creativity for perspectives of all kinds.

 

[stickygirl]

Not a bump, but an observation that's come from these discussions...

I just put The Two Towers on the dvd ( Lord of the Rings ) and watching the initial sequence, where Sam and Frodo are climbing down an Elvish rope. Sam drops a wooden clasp of seasoning from the Shire "Best salt and seasoning in the Shire.... in case we found a chicken in our travels" "A chicken?! You're right Sam - it is important." ....
It reveals a brief insight into 'what guys are like when the girls aren't around' which may be stereotypical. In such isolated circumstances, guys sometimes allow themselves emotions, but the whole sequence is thick with contradictory messages. Is the pursuing Gollum a real threat or is he a token for the Corruption of Power? The moral compass spins uncontrollably - who has 'the Power', who is corrupted, what does the Ring represent, who is the threat? Without referring to the original text, and knowing that the screenplay was written by a woman, these puzzles remain unanswered for me, but... the important point is that I now find myself asking the questions at all.

So thanks everyone for kicking round these ideas. I am grateful: it has given me a fresh perspective. It is too easy to become complacent, to accept the Hollywood version of cine-reality, especially when you're tired and you simply want a pizza and a beer! We need to keep asking questions, and listening to the insight of other people's ideas.

Right, I interrupted viewing and now I must return
"...we dwarves are natural sprinters: dangerous over short distances"
"Manflesh!"

I may fall asleep before the end though and leave Vigo to take care of me,,,

have a good weekend, virus excepted

 

[SimonDoom]

Not a bump, but an observation that's come from these discussions...

I just put The Two Towers on the dvd ( Lord of the Rings ) and watching the initial sequence, where Sam and Frodo are climbing down an Elvish rope. Sam drops a wooden clasp of seasoning from the Shire "Best salt and seasoning in the Shire.... in case we found a chicken in our travels" "A chicken?! You're right Sam - it is important." ....
It reveals a brief insight into 'what guys are like when the girls aren't around' which may be stereotypical. In such isolated circumstances, guys sometimes allow themselves emotions, but the whole sequence is thick with contradictory messages. Is the pursuing Gollum a real threat or is he a token for the Corruption of Power? The moral compass spins uncontrollably - who has 'the Power', who is corrupted, what does the Ring represent, who is the threat? Without referring to the original text, and knowing that the screenplay was written by a woman, these puzzles remain unanswered for me, but... the important point is that I now find myself asking the questions at all.

So thanks everyone for kicking round these ideas. I am grateful: it has given me a fresh perspective. It is too easy to become complacent, to accept the Hollywood version of cine-reality, especially when you're tired and you simply want a pizza and a beer! We need to keep asking questions, and listening to the insight of other people's ideas.

Right, I interrupted viewing and now I must return
"...we dwarves are natural sprinters: dangerous over short distances"
"Manflesh!"

I may fall asleep before the end though and leave Vigo to take care of me,,,

have a good weekend, virus excepted

I love this post, and your perspective on the psyches of Sam and Frodo, but I have to confess, as a guy, that there were times when I read LOTR (OK, when I re-read it for the third time as an adult) that I thought if Tolkien was going to be depicting this realistically, he'd have scenes where Frodo turned to Sam and said, "Holy fuck, Sam, what I wouldn't give for some Hobbit pussy right now." And Sam would say, "Beggin' your pardon, Mr. Frodo, but I've been beatin' off every night thinking about Rosie."

That's the way (straight) male Hobbits would talk to one another after months of wandering the godforsaken wastes of Middle-earth without female companionship. Especially after spending some time amid all those lissome elf-maidens in the woods of Lorien.

LOTR is almost completely devoid of "male gaze" as I think of it. One gets the sense that Tolkien's gaze was set on books, not women. In fact, you might say that the few scenes with Eowyn establish more female gaze in the series than male gaze, despite the small role that female characters play in the story as a whole.

 

[Seduc2ove]

I finally understand what the female gaze is. It's when the character is very pretentious, hates men, overly emotional, only blames others, always thinks they're right, and only sees others in terms of how much money they have or what they can offer them.

 

[stickygirl]

We have to take the LOTR in the context of an Oxford academic, where the fires of passion were stirred by parchment and fonts, not anything visceral. Tolkein, as other authors of his ilk, placed women on a pedestal of Virgin Mary/Mother figures, full of hidden power and mystery - elevated and reverence... entwives were lost because their guys were doing other stuff, Arwen must give up her immortality to have kids, and Eowyn has to pretend to be a man to deal a mortal blow to the Witch King with that awesome line (pulling off helmet) "I am no man!" ( rapturous applause! ). But if we view it through a male/female dynamic, we fall into the hefferlump trap.

His gender narrative was innocent and his gaze, neutral - not exactly female 'by default' but transparent. His treatment of the 'power' and comparisons to the industrialisation of war in Europe were fittingly more complex. Good versus Evil with blurred edges, that allowed room for compassion "It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand..." "You have become a fool Saruman, and yet pitiable."

Maybe there's a touch of male gaze with respect to Vigo Mortensen, but that's something I bring with me

ETA Simon
I think the film generally puts a greater emphasis on the role Eowyn than the book, but all the same, I love that the shield-maiden angle was not overlooked.

 

[SimonDoom]

ETA Simon
I think the film generally puts a greater emphasis on the role Eowyn than the book, but all the same, I love that the shield-maiden angle was not overlooked.

Agreed, but even the modest treatment of Eowyn in the book stands out in a book where women have almost no role, and the only really powerful woman, Galadriel, is not a point of view character whose gaze matters.

The only time male gaze happens that I can recall is when Eowyn and Faramir are healing together and he develops a crush on her. But that always seemed to me rushed and not emotionally satisfactory. But Tolkien in his stuffy, academic way lets us know Eowyn has the hots for Aragorn and it's the only place in the whole book where one character thinks of another in quite that way.

 

[stickygirl]

Agreed, but even the modest treatment of Eowyn in the book stands out in a book where women have almost no role, and the only really powerful woman, Galadriel, is not a point of view character whose gaze matters.

The only time male gaze happens that I can recall is when Eowyn and Faramir are healing together and he develops a crush on her. But that always seemed to me rushed and not emotionally satisfactory. But Tolkien in his stuffy, academic way lets us know Eowyn has the hots for Aragorn and it's the only place in the whole book where one character thinks of another in quite that way.

meh, I'm not convinced that is male gaze, because their relationship in the House of Healing is even-handed and we're not given narrative that reads that way. It's a feel-good sub-plot towards the end of the books: a germ of hope ( another war reference ) that is planted before the show down at the Black Gate. I guess as readers, we bring our own interpretations...

 

[Bramblethorn]

Agreed, but even the modest treatment of Eowyn in the book stands out in a book where women have almost no role, and the only really powerful woman, Galadriel, is not a point of view character whose gaze matters.

The only time male gaze happens that I can recall is when Eowyn and Faramir are healing together and he develops a crush on her. But that always seemed to me rushed and not emotionally satisfactory. But Tolkien in his stuffy, academic way lets us know Eowyn has the hots for Aragorn and it's the only place in the whole book where one character thinks of another in quite that way.

I'd say that Aragorn is even more smitten with Arwen, though it's hard to compare the two; Arwen is more of a guiding star than a fleshed-out female character. If they'd stuck more closely to the book, that's a part where the film might easily have come out very male-gaze-y.

One of the changes made in the film adaptation was to expand Arwen's role and give her more agency, I suspect to get away from exactly that kind of issue. I'm not sold on all the choices they made in that expansion, but I can understand the reason for wanting to do so.

 

[AlexBailey]

The Little Mermaid 's gaze?

So what do you think a movie would look like through a queer gaze? Is it even more problematic than the male/female gaze in terms of generalizing?

How about 'The Little Mermaid'?

The story, both the Disney version and the original story by Hans Christian Andersen, has received a lot of feminist criticism for having the protagonist be willing to give up everything, her entire world, for the man she wants. It may be that critics have missed the authors point.


The author may have written it as an allegory of his own queer desire.

Andersen was known to have had 'forbidden desires'. From Wikipedia:

" Andersen certainly experienced same-sex attraction as well: he wrote to Edvard Collin:[30] "I languish for you as for a pretty Calabrian wench ... my sentiments for you are those of a woman. The femininity of my nature and our friendship must remain a mystery."[31] Collin, who preferred women, wrote in his own memoir: "I found myself unable to respond to this love, and this caused the author much suffering." Likewise, the infatuations of the author for the Danish dancer Harald Scharff[32] and Carl Alexander, the young hereditary duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach,[33] did not result in any relationships. "



Many articles are available about it, there is a good one on Lithub. com titled 'Dear Internet: The Little Mermaid Also Happens to Be Queer Allegory'

https://lithub.com/dear-internet-the-little-mermaid-also-happens-to-be-queer-allegory/

It describes how the story; of a mermaid who wants to lose her tail to become a human, is the Author's masked tale of his own longing and desire. From the article:

" Unlike Walt Disney’s later, softer adaptation of “The Little Mermaid,” Andersen wrote an ending filled with pathos, where his mermaid, left alone and unloved, “dissolves” into seafoam. "

Check out the words to 'Part Of Your World' from a queer gaze perspective:


Part of Your World

byJodi Benson


Look at this stuff
Isn't it neat?
Wouldn't you think my collection's complete?
Wouldn't you think I'm the girl
The girl who has ev'rything?
Look at this trove
Treasures untold
How many wonders can one cavern hold?
Lookin' around here you'd think
(Sure) she's got everything

I've got gadgets and gizmos aplenty
I've got whozits and whatzits galore
(You want thingamabobs?
I got twenty)
But who cares?
No big deal
I want more

I want to be where the people are
I want to see
want to see 'em dancin'
Walkin' around on those
(Whad'ya call 'em?) oh - feet
Flippin' your fins you don't get too far
Legs are required for jumpin', dancin'
Strollin' along down a
(What's that word again?) street

Up where they walk
Up where they run
Up where they stay all day in the sun
Wanderin' free
Wish I could be
Part of that world

What would I give
If I could live
Outta these waters?
What would I pay
To spend a day
Warm on the sand?
Betcha on land
They understand
Bet they don't reprimand their daughters
Bright young women
Sick o' swimmin'
Ready to stand

And ready to know what the people know
Ask 'em my questions
And get some answers
What's a fire and why does it
(What's the word?) burn?

When's it my turn?
Wouldn't I love
Love to explore that shore above?
Out of the sea
Wish I could be
Part of that world

 

[MelissaBaby]

What stickygirl said.



So what do you think a movie would look like through a queer gaze? Is it even more problematic than the male/female gaze in terms of generalizing?

The Bride of Frankenstein?


Why Is “Bride Of Frankenstein” Often Analyzed As A Gay Parable?

 

[stickygirl]

So what do you think a movie would look like through a queer gaze? Is it even more problematic than the male/female gaze in terms of generalizing?

so like... Portrait of a Lady on Fire? It's whole story line is queer to its toes, but also female gaze in that the audience is not titillated with girl-on-girl action in the same way Blue is the Warmest Colour does.

From the text of Melissa's Frankenstein link, some creative people happen to be gay, but that doesn't mean there is a pecking order to what they produce - being creative is their driving force; being gay is what they do in bed. I'm being overly simplistic, but we otherwise define people's creative work by their sexuality and gender, which is kinda patronising.

The Matrix is apparently full of trans messages, that the Wachowski sisters introduced into the storyline as Easter eggs. The Matrix has some playful male gazing when it comes to leather clad butts, but only in the context of fetish parody and the film is essentially a fun look at kung-fu.

Queer ( LGBTQ ) themes get introduced as extrapolations of truth: either as creepy Frankenstein monsters or through comedy, as though Hollywood and its consumers need bitesize info to desensitise them to gayness. If only their themes and storylines are queer, we're not encouraged to reflect on our own lives through a sense of empathy, unless we are queer too. We might pity Ratso or laugh at Tootsie, but we had to wait under Brokeback for the story to be honest with us.... I'm making guesses here and I'm sure there are better examples that will shoot that idea to pieces!

 

[SimonDoom]

So what do you think a movie would look like through a queer gaze? Is it even more problematic than the male/female gaze in terms of generalizing?

I don't think there's any such thing, any more than there's such a thing as "hetero" gaze. My sense is that gay men look at things pretty much the same way straight men do. Their gaze is a lot more like that of straight men than it is like that of gay women.

I have no clue about gay female gaze. That's a different matter. But I don't think it's anything like gay male gaze.

 

[MelissaBaby]

From the text of Melissa's Frankenstein link, some creative people happen to be gay, but that doesn't mean there is a pecking order to what they produce - being creative is their driving force; being gay is what they do in bed. I'm being overly simplistic, but we otherwise define people's creative work by their sexuality and gender, which is kinda patronising.

What I got from that article, and other things I've read, was much more than just that some of the creators were gay (BTW, they didn't mention that Elsa Lanchester was rumored to be bi, and was married to a gay man, Charles Laughton).

There's been a lot written about alleged queer subtext in the movie, from the focus on the monster as shunned outsider, to the domesticity of the scene with the hermit, to what the article calls "an overriding fantasy of male-male procreation."

If you've seen Gods and Monsters, that movie, ostensibly about James Whales, played with those themes.

In any case, I have seen Bride used as an example of a "queer" movie, so I thought I'd toss it into the discussion.

 

[stickygirl]

What I got from that article, and other things I've read, was much more than just that some of the creators were gay (BTW, they didn't mention that Elsa Lanchester was rumored to be bi, and was married to a gay man, Charles Laughton).

There's been a lot written about alleged queer subtext in the movie, from the focus on the monster as shunned outsider, to the domesticity of the scene with the hermit, to what the article calls "an overriding fantasy of male-male procreation."

If you've seen Gods and Monsters, that movie, ostensibly about James Whales, played with those themes.

In any case, I have seen Bride used as an example of a "queer" movie, so I thought I'd toss it into the discussion.

I don't disagree - it presents a bitesize version of gay without being gay! My understanding of 1930's society was that it more tolerant of un-hetero-ness than it was in the 1950s. My great-gran might have been touched that a monster could have feelings too, but I wouldn't imagine for a second she would have clocked it as a gay theme.... on the other hand, why am I dumbing down an entire generation?! I mean they had sex too

 

[SimonDoom]

What I got from that article, and other things I've read, was much more than just that some of the creators were gay (BTW, they didn't mention that Elsa Lanchester was rumored to be bi, and was married to a gay man, Charles Laughton).

There's been a lot written about alleged queer subtext in the movie, from the focus on the monster as shunned outsider, to the domesticity of the scene with the hermit, to what the article calls "an overriding fantasy of male-male procreation."

If you've seen Gods and Monsters, that movie, ostensibly about James Whales, played with those themes.

In any case, I have seen Bride used as an example of a "queer" movie, so I thought I'd toss it into the discussion.

An interesting movie on the subject of homosexuality in movies is The Celluloid Closet. There's an amusing interview with Gore Vidal, who was a script doctor for Ben Hur. They doctored the script to add a homoerotic element to the relationship between Ben Hur and Messala. But they never told Charlton Heston about it!

There's an element of "gay male gaze" that runs through some of those 50s-era gladiator/biblical epic pictures, with the emphasis on bare, muscled, sweat-glazed chests. I have no doubt that some of those involved in making those movies were keenly aware of that.

 

[ElectricBlue]

There's an element of "gay male gaze" that runs through some of those 50s-era gladiator/biblical epic pictures, with the emphasis on bare, muscled, sweat-glazed chests. I have no doubt that some of those involved in making those movies were keenly aware of that.

Kubrick certainly did, as did Dalton Trumbo, the scriptwriter for Spartacus.

This interesting little snippet:

Among the deleted footage [the context is a restoration of the film] was a bath scene in which the Roman patrician and general Crassus attempts to seduce his slave Antoninus, speaking about the analogy of "eating oysters" and "eating snails" to express his opinion that sexual preference is a matter of taste rather than morality.

The four-minute scene had been removed following an objection by the National Legion of Decency. When the film was restored (two years after Laurence Olivier's death), the original dialogue recording of this scene was missing; it had to be re-dubbed. Tony Curtis, by then 66, was able to re-record his part, but Crassus's voice was an impersonation of Olivier by Anthony Hopkins.

 

[Bramblethorn]

An interesting movie on the subject of homosexuality in movies is The Celluloid Closet. There's an amusing interview with Gore Vidal, who was a script doctor for Ben Hur. They doctored the script to add a homoerotic element to the relationship between Ben Hur and Messala. But they never told Charlton Heston about it!

There's an element of "gay male gaze" that runs through some of those 50s-era gladiator/biblical epic pictures, with the emphasis on bare, muscled, sweat-glazed chests. I have no doubt that some of those involved in making those movies were keenly aware of that.

Related, I enjoyed this short video about the history of queer coding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsO4fZYHQic

 

[capnjs]

What I got from that article, and other things I've read, was much more than just that some of the creators were gay (BTW, they didn't mention that Elsa Lanchester was rumored to be bi, and was married to a gay man, Charles Laughton).

There's been a lot written about alleged queer subtext in the movie, from the focus on the monster as shunned outsider, to the domesticity of the scene with the hermit, to what the article calls "an overriding fantasy of male-male procreation."

If you've seen Gods and Monsters, that movie, ostensibly about James Whales, played with those themes.

In any case, I have seen Bride used as an example of a "queer" movie, so I thought I'd toss it into the discussion.

Dr. Pretorious always seemed like a gay character to me.

Bride of Frankenstein and Nightmare on Elm St. 2 are the first two horror movies I ever remember seeing where I suspected the main character being gay, even tho I was too young to even have a concept of what being gay was.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

How about 'The Little Mermaid'?

The story, both the Disney version and the original story by Hans Christian Andersen, has received a lot of feminist criticism for having the protagonist be willing to give up everything, her entire world, for the man she wants. It may be that critics have missed the authors point.


The author may have written it as an allegory of his own queer desire.

Andersen was known to have had 'forbidden desires'. From Wikipedia:

" Andersen certainly experienced same-sex attraction as well: he wrote to Edvard Collin:[30] "I languish for you as for a pretty Calabrian wench ... my sentiments for you are those of a woman. The femininity of my nature and our friendship must remain a mystery."[31] Collin, who preferred women, wrote in his own memoir: "I found myself unable to respond to this love, and this caused the author much suffering." Likewise, the infatuations of the author for the Danish dancer Harald Scharff[32] and Carl Alexander, the young hereditary duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach,[33] did not result in any relationships. "...

I didn't' know that. I've long been familiar with the "I languish for you as for a pretty Calabrian wench" line, but believe it or not, didn't quite figure out the dynamic. It confused me every time I read it, until now. Duh! I won't walk you through the mental gymnastics I've gone through in the past trying to make sense of it, but suffice it to say, they were much more complicated than the obvious solution!

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

The Bride of Frankenstein?


Why Is “Bride Of Frankenstein” Often Analyzed As A Gay Parable?

That was really interesting. I'd somehow managed never to have seen the movie at all, so I don't know what my first impression would have been without reading this, but I'm going to guess that I would have been oblivious to it. It makes me wonder how many other things I miss just because they don't fall within the sexual dynamic to which I'm accustomed.

 

[AlexBailey]

Part of that world...

Hi Sticky,
Whew! You know you’re queer when the combination of lace and snaggled fingernails turns you on!

You're outrageous

I know it's petty, but the 'outrageous' comment has been crossing my mind ever since you posted it. I'm sure it was meant colloquially in a friendly and supportive way, yet it's still been haunting me. A touch of background may help me explain why it does not feel 'outrageous' to me. I also feel that it fits into the conversation of gaze.


I grew up knowing I had interests and proclivities that were different from mainstream society. My religious parents did a pretty thurough job of redirecting me for most of my youth, encouraging me to be interested in girls but not into wearing their clothes. I also have always been a rough-and-tumble guy. This culminated in my interest in tomboys.

My first long-term relationship was with a girl who, other than the three+ years we were together, has always been a lesbian. We were an interesting couple. Our parents went to the same church and were delighted when we hooked up, thinking that us getting together was the answer to their prayers. It's funny now, looking back at old pictures. Although I did not openly cross-dress at the time, she was the more masculine or us two. Our friend group was mainly lesbian activists in the San Francisco bay area. I was accepted by most of the girls but not by some. I definitely felt some resentment directed toward me for a variety of reasons that I had no control over. During that time I had heavy underlying dysphoria about myself.

My girlfriend was into farming and motorcycles, and often had dirty fingernails, as did most of our closest friends. Most of the girls in this group were very friendly with me and did not seem to care how I presented. We eventually broke up because I knew that I wanted to have a family and she did not. Although we rarely see each other now, we're still friends and my wife absolutely loves her. (If you happen to read my stories, 'Sandy' and ‘Jena’ are fictionalized versions of my ex and my wife.)

When I went on to work in the trades and had a family, I buried my femininity under facial hair and work clothes, and made an effort to seem more manly. Over the years I have noticed other men who seem to be hiding parts of themselves in similar ways. Whenever I see little clues or tells of hidden femme traits, it is titillating to me. I think my life long repression has helped contribute to fetishizing my interests.

As I've recently started getting involved in the queer community again after so many years, I've come to it from a different perspective than when I was with my lesbian girlfriend. When I see a man who does not pass in drag, OR a girl with dirty fingernails or whatnot, it triggers something in me. I see them as brave and beautiful from within. I want to embrace that for myself more and more, and I find it incredibly attractive in others.

The same is true for me with transgender people. Reading your (Stickygirl's) recent posts on another thread about being in a female swimming club just blows my mind. Not because I objectify you, but because I deeply admire your strength and will to be your true self, in spite of the crushing pressures of society.

Sticky, I look at you similarly to the way a gushing fan looks at a rockstar. If we ever met, you could wrap me around your little finger. I know that many trans folks have felt fetishized by trans admirers, and I often have to remind myself that it can be very uncomfortable to feel objectified. I wish there were a way to communicate my full sentiments without seeming creepy, but that's the way it usually seems to come across.

That's my 'queer gaze'. I'm sure you didn't mean 'outrageous' in the literal sense, but I just needed to put it out there that it is subtle and nuanced, with lots of vicarious admiration and knowledge that it's got lots of ups and downs and it's not all fun and sexual glorification. Namaste.