The Female Gaze

[MelissaBaby]

I wasn’t looking for a plug here, but I wrote about all this in Chapter Four of My Fall and Rise

 

[Emirus]

I wasn’t looking for a plug here, but I wrote about all this in Chapter Four of My Fall and Rise

Plug away, Melissa. It might then entice them read the entire story. A lot of different emotions in it but the story did end up well.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Plug away, Melissa. It might then entice them read the entire story. A lot of different emotions in it but the story did end up well.

Thank you, Emirus. You have always been very supportive and I really appreciate it.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

Some thoughts from an object...

Several times in my life, I have worked as an "adult entertainer", an "exotic dancer", an "ecdysiast"...you know, a stripper. Other than porn performers, I don't think there is any group as objectified by the male gaze...

I think this is a pretty good scenario to imagine the difference in the way this would be shown in a movie if the female/empathetic gaze was used versus the male/objectifying gaze was used.

I think the female/empathetic version would include:

• More shots of the audience, with close-ups of individuals, capturing their reactions (showing us what the dancer sees)
• More scenes in the dressing room with conversation between the dancers
• Scenes that show the dancer's transformation from her regular self to her actress self (maybe emphasizing the change in facial expression, body language, voice, speech as she arrives for work)
• Scenes that show the dancer's transformation back to her regular self after the shift is over (maybe we would see the actress role drop abruptly, going from one hundred to zero instead of vice versa)
• Scenes showing the dancer learning to dance
• Dialogue (maybe in the dressing room, maybe with a friend) that provides the viewer with the dancer's assessment of her clients and how she adjusts her strategy for the client
• Demonstration or conversation showing how (if) the job affects her sexuality outside of work
• Something to show the viewer how the dancer deals with the intersection of her job with the rest of her life. Which family members know about it? How does she feel about them knowing? Does she have friends other than fellow dancers who are supportive? Is the job isolating because of social stigma? Does she feel more liberated outside of work because of what she does at work? How does it affect her romantic life.

I don't think there's a point in trying to list what the male/objectifying gaze would include. It's been done enough that we kind of know, right?

I think a lot of it comes down to whether you have a movie about a dancer/stripper or a movie about a person who works as a dancer/stripper.

 

[stickygirl]

I think that any gaze includes assumptions about its object. Those assumptions create an....essence(?)...of the object. You look at an apple and you imbue it with qualities of appleness, a taste, a texture.

When it's a person, obviously, it's much more complicated. You know, strippers can spend as much time talking to clients as dancing. Some of them made the assumption that because you were dancing, you were a slut, up for anything sexual. But it was just as common for them to assume you were a good girl who had just taken a wrong path. The rarest assumption was that it was just your job, one of the few where a woman without inherited advantages or an advanced education could make a lot of money.

They create a patchwork of assumptions, that you would just love to fuck them, or that you are pining for a gallant hero to rescue you, and that becomes the filter through which they see you.

People make assumptions about others all the time, whether it's about a stripper or a female secretary in a big office. I find it weird that there is a code in strip clubs that punters and dancers stick to the rules and although some might make different assumptions about you, you provide the service and they pay. The secretary on the other hand might have studied law for four years before joining a company with the intention of furthering her career. So if the secretary is objectified by lewd comments or has her career stifled by glass ceilings, who is getting screwed and objectified? Both these examples deflect us a little from gaze because we're including pay and working conditions amongst other things.

Since Nyx has listed some criteria, can you recommend a movie that depicts strippers in a way that doesn't objectify? ( Honest question, not ironic! )

 

[MelissaBaby]

I think this is a pretty good scenario to imagine the difference in the way this would be shown in a movie if the female/empathetic gaze was used versus the male/objectifying gaze was used.

I think the female/empathetic version would include:

• More shots of the audience, with close-ups of individuals, capturing their reactions (showing us what the dancer sees)
• More scenes in the dressing room with conversation between the dancers
• Scenes that show the dancer's transformation from her regular self to her actress self (maybe emphasizing the change in facial expression, body language, voice, speech as she arrives for work)
• Scenes that show the dancer's transformation back to her regular self after the shift is over (maybe we would see the actress role drop abruptly, going from one hundred to zero instead of vice versa)
• Scenes showing the dancer learning to dance
• Dialogue (maybe in the dressing room, maybe with a friend) that provides the viewer with the dancer's assessment of her clients and how she adjusts her strategy for the client
• Demonstration or conversation showing how (if) the job affects her sexuality outside of work
• Something to show the viewer how the dancer deals with the intersection of her job with the rest of her life. Which family members know about it? How does she feel about them knowing? Does she have friends other than fellow dancers who are supportive? Is the job isolating because of social stigma? Does she feel more liberated outside of work because of what she does at work? How does it affect her romantic life.

I don't think there's a point in trying to list what the male/objectifying gaze would include. It's been done enough that we kind of know, right?

I think a lot of it comes down to whether you have a movie about a dancer/stripper or a movie about a person who works as a dancer/stripper.

You just described my next major writing project, which I hope to start in the next month or so.

 

[stickygirl]

You just described my next major writing project, which I hope to start in the next month or so.

Since we've helped, can we have some say in the film rights?! Look forward to it, M

 

[MelissaBaby]

People make assumptions about others all the time, whether it's about a stripper or a female secretary in a big office. I find it weird that there is a code in strip clubs that punters and dancers stick to the rules and although some might make different assumptions about you, you provide the service and they pay. The secretary on the other hand might have studied law for four years before joining a company with the intention of furthering her career. So if the secretary is objectified by lewd comments or has her career stifled by glass ceilings, who is getting screwed and objectified? Both these examples deflect us a little from gaze because we're including pay and working conditions amongst other things.

Since Nyx has listed some criteria, can you recommend a movie that depicts strippers in a way that doesn't objectify? ( Honest question, not ironic! )

Well, as far as sticking to the rules, that's maybe a little more fluid than you might think.The culture of every club is different. Customers routinely ask for "extras", and sometimes, if they are willing to pay enough, they get them. But to your point, the dancer controls that, and has the threat of force to back her up. That burly dude in the wifebeater shirt, sitting at the end of the bar nursing a ginger ale, isn't just there to eat the buffalo wings. That's an important distinction, an advantage the dancer has that the secretary does not.

As for the movies, Dancing at the Blue Iguana probably comes closest to showing things the way they really are.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Since we've helped, can we have some say in the film rights?! Look forward to it, M

We can negotiate for points.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Since Nyx has listed some criteria, can you recommend a movie that depicts strippers in a way that doesn't objectify? ( Honest question, not ironic! )

I'd recommend Hustlers from last year - the viewpoint switches frequently from seeing strippers through the punters' gaze to seeing them through each other's eyes (female gaze). And it turns out J-Lo can act. Excellent film whether or not.you like looking at female strippers.

Some years ago I went with some queer female friends to a ladies' night - female strippers. There were only about four groups of audience - two female couples, two groups - so we got chatting to some of the dancers. Two of them confirmed they liked doing gigs for women because a) it was hot and b) female audience were much more respectful and didn't treat them like meat or at best inferior people. Unfortunately, there weren't enough women interested in such shows and also none of us were getting drunk and asking for multiple dances, let alone chucking notes at them. So they'd be lucky to make 20 quid each that night as.opposed to a couple hundred, so really they were just there for fun.

No idea how representative that opinion was, but certainly my friends and I have never bothered paying for strippers any other time (why bother when a typical club night has just as much eye candy?)

 

[SimonDoom]

On the subject of stripper movies and the topic of "gaze", what do women think of Magic Mike? I can recall one woman friend of mine really liking it because of Channing Tatum and the surrounding beefcake, but other women I've talked to didn't care for that sort of thing.

The treatment of men as objects of women's gaze seemed pretty straightforward. There wasn't much conflict about it, as I recall. I don't recall a lot of self reflection by the male strippers, but it's been a while since I saw the movie.

I wonder to what degree male strippers experience the same kinds of feelings female strippers do, or if it's less conflicted for them.

There's not much "female gaze" if I recall about that film. The women are an undifferentiated audience. There's little focus about how individual women experience the strip tease or their views of Mike.

 

[stickygirl]

On the subject of stripper movies and the topic of "gaze", what do women think of Magic Mike? I can recall one woman friend of mine really liking it because of Channing Tatum and the surrounding beefcake, but other women I've talked to didn't care for that sort of thing.

The treatment of men as objects of women's gaze seemed pretty straightforward. There wasn't much conflict about it, as I recall. I don't recall a lot of self reflection by the male strippers, but it's been a while since I saw the movie.

I wonder to what degree male strippers experience the same kinds of feelings female strippers do, or if it's less conflicted for them.

There's not much "female gaze" if I recall about that film. The women are an undifferentiated audience. There's little focus about how individual women experience the strip tease or their views of Mike.

With respect to the previous posts, I think the focus on strippers is a dead end for discussing gaze . Being a stripper, male or female, is an artificial environment with bouncers at the bar to bail out female performers and where the whole point of stripping is to gaze - and that is entirely male gaze - because it is for visual sexual gratification: the very definition of male gaze. Come on Simon, I know you did the Wiki.

No, I doubt any male performers consider much beyond the pay cheque or shagging a horny housewife in the dressing room. But then men are such fragile flowers, perhaps we need to bend backwards even more to accommodate their feelings before our own - again? Stripping is set up to be an extreme version of male gaze and that there are male strippers illustrates that flipping male gaze to conjure female gaze is ridiculous - worse, it's insulting. By posing empty questions "I wonder to what degree..." is kicking dirt over a useful discussion.

 

[MelissaBaby]

With respect to the previous posts, I think the focus on strippers is a dead end for discussing gaze . Being a stripper, male or female, is an artificial environment with bouncers at the bar to bail out female performers and where the whole point of stripping is to gaze - and that is entirely male gaze - because it is for visual sexual gratification: the very definition of male gaze. Come on Simon, I know you did the Wiki.

No, I doubt any male performers consider much beyond the pay cheque or shagging a horny housewife in the dressing room. But then men are such fragile flowers, perhaps we need to bend backwards even more to accommodate their feelings before our own - again? Stripping is set up to be an extreme version of male gaze and that there are male strippers illustrates that flipping male gaze to conjure female gaze is ridiculous - worse, it's insulting. By posing empty questions "I wonder to what degree..." is kicking dirt over a useful discussion.

I thought I’d bring up the subject because it is male gaze in an extreme form, but I agree it need not be the center of the discussion.

 

[stickygirl]

I thought I’d bring up the subject because it is male gaze in an extreme form, but I agree it need not be the center of the discussion.

I'm sorry if it sounded I was having a pop at you, but I had a bit of sick came up when I read
"I wonder to what degree male strippers experience the same kinds of feelings female strippers do, or if it's less conflicted for them.?"
Like I said, stripping is the epitome of male gaze and you're inside knowledge gives credibility to topics we would otherwise only guess. I'll certainly check out the links you supplied. The thing is, we are saturated by male gaze, to the extent that even some women think it is a standard we should also aspire to because we are offered so few alternatives. Women often do objectify and judge other women with the same male-centric standards because they think they need to fit it with that mindset to be accepted.

I even hear my millennial cousins, who are smart guys, pull faces at the idea of kids role models being a balance of male and female. They'll tolerate one of their boys if he picks up a girls toy, but they'll only join in when he picks up a typically male one. These Dads love action movies and typically men's things - and there is nothing wrong with that, but we still have a long way to go.

Now I'll apologise, because I'm off on a feminist rant, which I was doing my best to avoid! The weird thing is, when we try to be impartial as women we still end up having justify female perspectives within the male framework. Heyho... one thing at a time, I guess

 

[SimonDoom]

With respect to the previous posts, I think the focus on strippers is a dead end for discussing gaze . Being a stripper, male or female, is an artificial environment with bouncers at the bar to bail out female performers and where the whole point of stripping is to gaze - and that is entirely male gaze - because it is for visual sexual gratification: the very definition of male gaze. Come on Simon, I know you did the Wiki.

No, I doubt any male performers consider much beyond the pay cheque or shagging a horny housewife in the dressing room. But then men are such fragile flowers, perhaps we need to bend backwards even more to accommodate their feelings before our own - again? Stripping is set up to be an extreme version of male gaze and that there are male strippers illustrates that flipping male gaze to conjure female gaze is ridiculous - worse, it's insulting. By posing empty questions "I wonder to what degree..." is kicking dirt over a useful discussion.

I'm not sure why this bothered you so much. I'm asking questions, being curious. I don't have the answers. I don't know anything directly about stripping, whether by males or females.

It's possible that female strip club patrons have very different ways of looking at the performers from the way male strip club patrons look at their performers, so I wouldn't assume it's the same kind of gaze, just flipped. It's possible the male and female performers think very differently about what they do. Since these are all potential subjects for erotica, they're legitimate questions to ask. Whether and to what degree it implicates "male gaze" or "female gaze" seems perfectly legitimate to me, because one thing this thread has established is that there's no widely accepted definition of either.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

I'm sorry if it sounded I was having a pop at you, but I had a bit of sick came up when I read
"I wonder to what degree male strippers experience the same kinds of feelings female strippers do, or if it's less conflicted for them.?"
Like I said, stripping is the epitome of male gaze and you're inside knowledge gives credibility to topics we would otherwise only guess. I'll certainly check out the links you supplied. The thing is, we are saturated by male gaze, to the extent that even some women think it is a standard we should also aspire to because we are offered so few alternatives. Women often do objectify and judge other women with the same male-centric standards because they think they need to fit it with that mindset to be accepted.

I even hear my millennial cousins, who are smart guys, pull faces at the idea of kids role models being a balance of male and female. They'll tolerate one of their boys if he picks up a girls toy, but they'll only join in when he picks up a typically male one. These Dads love action movies and typically men's things - and there is nothing wrong with that, but we still have a long way to go.

Now I'll apologise, because I'm off on a feminist rant, which I was doing my best to avoid! The weird thing is, when we try to be impartial as women we still end up having justify female perspectives within the male framework. Heyho... one thing at a time, I guess

I think the comment I'm about to make is slightly off-topic, but I'm curious about it and it's related to whether women emulate or flip male gaze. I tend to think they do. I've wondered sometimes, when female friends have made a bit deal about going to a male revue or watching Magic Mike (God, I got sick of hearing about Magic Mike), if they were doing it because they felt like that's what they were supposed to do to "own" their sexuality. It usually had a strange and artificial avidity, and the things my friends were saying didn't match their personalities.

If they did really enjoy it, good for them, but it just didn't feel real, and it didn't match anything about their interactions with or attitudes towards men outside of those circumstances. If it was artificial, it was quite possibly adopted unconsciously, but it was like someone pressed a button and a different personality popped up to talk about male strippers or Magic Mike. It definitely was not the female gaze. It could be women applying a male/objectifying gaze, but the male gaze does not become the female gaze by virtue of being exhibited by a woman. As long as it retains the same qualities, it's the same gaze, no matter who is doing the gazing or upon whom they are gazing.

I've known a few women for whom I thought those reactions were genuine. I don't think that makes it the empathetic gaze. (I'd like to not get too hung up on terminology here. The intent is to address a particular gaze, rather than to make any assertions about who may or may not hold it.) Those were only a few women. For the rest, it's seemed quite artificial. I was curious what everyone else has noticed about this. Is it just me?

While I'm currently guilty of the diversion, I think we keep going astray because it's so easy to take the concept of "gaze" and apply it in a first-person sort of way to interpersonal scenarios instead of the original intent of the thread, which was much more third-person and much more about storytelling. I think that when it's applied in first- or second-person interpersonal scenarios, there's a subtle shift from gaze to perspective. Most of the same considerations carry over, making it doubly hard. Is there truly a distinction?

 

[MelissaBaby]

I'm sorry if it sounded I was having a pop at you, but I had a bit of sick came up when I read
"I wonder to what degree male strippers experience the same kinds of feelings female strippers do, or if it's less conflicted for them.?"
Like I said, stripping is the epitome of male gaze and you're inside knowledge gives credibility to topics we would otherwise only guess. I'll certainly check out the links you supplied. The thing is, we are saturated by male gaze, to the extent that even some women think it is a standard we should also aspire to because we are offered so few alternatives. Women often do objectify and judge other women with the same male-centric standards because they think they need to fit it with that mindset to be accepted.

I even hear my millennial cousins, who are smart guys, pull faces at the idea of kids role models being a balance of male and female. They'll tolerate one of their boys if he picks up a girls toy, but they'll only join in when he picks up a typically male one. These Dads love action movies and typically men's things - and there is nothing wrong with that, but we still have a long way to go.

Now I'll apologise, because I'm off on a feminist rant, which I was doing my best to avoid! The weird thing is, when we try to be impartial as women we still end up having justify female perspectives within the male framework. Heyho... one thing at a time, I guess

I took no offense. No worries there.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I think the comment I'm about to make is slightly off-topic, but I'm curious about it and it's related to whether emulate or flip male gaze. I tend to think they do. I've wondered sometimes, when female friends have made a bit deal about going to a male revue or watching Magic Mike (God, I got sick of hearing about Magic Mike), if they were doing it because they felt like that's what they were supposed to do to "own" their sexuality. It usually had a strange and artificial avidity, and the things my friends were saying didn't match their personalities.

If they did really enjoy it, good for them, but it just didn't feel real, and it didn't match anything about their interactions with or attitudes towards men outside of those circumstances. If it was artificially, it was quite possibly adopted unconsciously, but it was like someone pressed a button and a different personality popped up to talk about male strippers or Magic Mike. It definitely was not the female gaze. It could be women applying a male/objectifying gaze, but the male gaze does not become the female gaze by virtue of being exhibited by a woman. As long as it retains the same qualities, it's the same gaze, no matter who is doing the gazing or upon whom they are gazing.

I've known a few women for whom I thought those reactions were genuine. I don't think that makes it the empathetic gaze. (I'd like to not get too hung up on terminology here. The intent is to address a particular gaze, rather than to make any assertions about who may or may not hold it.) Those were only a few women. For the rest, it's seemed quite artificial. I was curious what everyone else has noticed about this. Is it just me?

While I'm currently guilty of the diversion, I think we keep going astray because it's so easy to take the concept of "gaze" and apply it in a first-person sort of way to interpersonal scenarios instead of the original intent of the thread, which was much more third-person and much more about storytelling. I think that when it's applied in first- or second-person interpersonal scenarios, there's a subtle shift from gaze to perspective. Most of the same considerations carry over, making it doubly hard. Is there truly a distinction?

Men stripping for women is a completely different dynamic in an important way. I have never known of a woman going to see male strippers alone. It is a group activity. I don't think the way women respond is about the men as much as it is about sharing a celebration of sexuality with their friends and the larger group of women present. In a sense, the men are objectified because they are really only there so the women can have fun with their friends.

I'm really interested in reading what people have to say about your gaze/perspective dichotomy as it pertains to writing.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Men stripping for women is a completely different dynamic in an important way. I have never known of a woman going to see male strippers alone. It is a group activity. I don't think the way women respond is about the men as much as it is about sharing a celebration of sexuality with their friends and the larger group of women present. In a sense, the men are objectified because they are really only there so the women can have fun with their friends.

I'm really interested in reading what people have to say about your gaze/perspective dichotomy as it pertains to writing.

My RL experience here is very limited - no judgement, I'm just a bit of a hermit, and the few live performances I have seen have been in kink-type settings so probably atypical. So I'm going almost entirely on media representation here.

One of the biggest differences I notice in film etc. is that "male stripper" seems to be treated as inherently comedic, in a way that "female stripper" isn't. There's a strong vibe of "this isn't a normal thing for a guy to be doing". Sometimes that's presented affectionately (Brassed Off), sometimes it's treated as a humiliating experience, but I'm having difficulty thinking of any time when I've seen a male stripper played straight.

Not to say that there can't be comedy in female acts, but the idea isn't automatically comic the way that a male stripper seems to be in film.

Am I missing something? And how far is the film portrayal from real life?

(Drifting a little bit off topic here, but I'm curious.)

 

[Kumquatqueen]

"male stripper" seems to be treated as inherently comedic, in a way that "female stripper" isn't. ...
Not to say that there can't be comedy in female acts, but the idea isn't automatically comic the way that a male stripper seems to be in film.

Am I missing something? And how far is the film portrayal from real life?

I think you're right, both on film and in real life (the Chippendales, hen night strippers) - when the male stripper is performing for a female audience. They're seen as dancers being extra cheeky - certainly Magic Mike would fit that description, though as I saw MM on a plane I imagine American Airlines censored anything that went beyond 'cheeky'.

Strippers providing full nudity and lap dances etc - a friend informs me that the market for men doing that is similar to male escorts - well over 99% for other men.

The stereotype is that women both don't obsess over the detail of genitals, and are better at using their imagination - Playgirl is only really purchased by men, but the photos look like sex-reversed shots of women. Filament and other female-produced porn mags never managed to break even (but are beautiful, IMO). In comparison, the vast majority of erotic fanfic writers are women, especially writing about two men together.

If you compared the Gay Male section here to the m/m Explicit section of AO3, you could compare male Vs female gaze in writing.

 

[MelissaBaby]

My RL experience here is very limited - no judgement, I'm just a bit of a hermit, and the few live performances I have seen have been in kink-type settings so probably atypical. So I'm going almost entirely on media representation here.

One of the biggest differences I notice in film etc. is that "male stripper" seems to be treated as inherently comedic, in a way that "female stripper" isn't. There's a strong vibe of "this isn't a normal thing for a guy to be doing". Sometimes that's presented affectionately (Brassed Off), sometimes it's treated as a humiliating experience, but I'm having difficulty thinking of any time when I've seen a male stripper played straight.

Not to say that there can't be comedy in female acts, but the idea isn't automatically comic the way that a male stripper seems to be in film.

Am I missing something? And how far is the film portrayal from real life?

(Drifting a little bit off topic here, but I'm curious.)

I think you have a good point. I don't know a lot about male stripping, but I do get the impression that it is usually meant to be presented as playful, with the dancers dressing as cops or cowboys or, apparently, dancing bears. I suppose that the thought is that that eliminates the potential for the whole thing to seem aggressive or threatening. (Although, the cop thing, well...)

So, I think the movie's portraying it in a largely comical manner is probably not far off the mark.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I think you're right, both on film and in real life (the Chippendales, hen night strippers) - when the male stripper is performing for a female audience. They're seen as dancers being extra cheeky - certainly Magic Mike would fit that description, though as I saw MM on a plane I imagine American Airlines censored anything that went beyond 'cheeky'.

Strippers providing full nudity and lap dances etc - a friend informs me that the market for men doing that is similar to male escorts - well over 99% for other men.

The stereotype is that women both don't obsess over the detail of genitals, and are better at using their imagination - Playgirl is only really purchased by men, but the photos look like sex-reversed shots of women. Filament and other female-produced porn mags never managed to break even (but are beautiful, IMO). In comparison, the vast majority of erotic fanfic writers are women, especially writing about two men together.

If you compared the Gay Male section here to the m/m Explicit section of AO3, you could compare male Vs female gaze in writing.

Is there still such a thing as Playgirl Magazine?

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm really interested in reading what people have to say about your gaze/perspective dichotomy as it pertains to writing.

This is the part of the discussion that's interesting for me, too.

Thinking about gaze in terms of writing, especially writing porn and erotica (there's the old viewing eye dichotomy, again), is intriguing, especially where writing often has an internalising gaze: what's my gaze when I'm looking in at myself?

 

[capnjs]

As for the movies, Dancing at the Blue Iguana probably comes closest to showing things the way they really are.

Have you ever watched Go Go Tales by Abel Ferrara? Would be curious to know your thoughts.

 

[AlexBailey]

I've received some adoring female gaze.

I've worked in the trades for many years, often in remote rural areas. I've definitely felt it grow as I've helped sort out troubles around the ranch, farm or home.

I've taught workshops for back-to-the-landers and had very amorous reviews written about my presentation.

I've played and sung for a rock-n-roll band and was amazed by how many switches that can flip. I often play at campfires or festivals and have often had to excuse myself from the attention. My wife gets a kick out of it when she sees girls or guys get interested in me when I perform. She's laughed about getting dirty looks from someone who has approached me while she's been standing by. Her gaze grows stronger when she sees someone else who is attracted to her guy.

I often get good female attention when I wear my kilt. A couple of my wife's friends have said it's a little intimidating to see a guy who is confident enough to wear one -- and very attractive. That reaction is much narrower but still there when I crossdress, unless I'm playing music. I can wear a short skirt and a corset and get great attention 'on-stage,' but I only get good energy about it from a few 'off-stage', and that often is more of a 'male gaze' kind if thing.

There is definitely something alluring about performing or doing something skillful that attracts the female gaze.

Although it was certainly a buzzkill for some, the strongest I ever felt the female gaze was when I was single and hanging out with my two year-old son.

Basically, the strongest female gaze I ever get seems to be when I'm doing something they want to be part of. Maybe that's true of male gaze too, it's just a matter of the gazer's interests.