The Key to understanding socialism

[UltraChad]

I've been trying to stop paying for roads. Who needs em?

Yea because without socialism we can't have roads....LMFAO

How did we ever manage as a near totally capitalist nation manage to build the greatest highway system EVER.

 

[ll74]

Yea because without socialism we can't have roads....LMFA

You have some toll roads.

 

[JohnEngelman]

 

[UltraChad]

You have some toll roads.

Yea, cool.

You can still have public roads and civil services without a socialist economy.

 

[ll74]

Yea, cool.

Have to walk between them.

You can still have public roads and civil services without a socialist economy.

An economy that uses public money for the common goods and services is a socialist economy.

 

[UltraChad]

An economy that uses public money for the common goods and services is a socialist economy.

No it's not.

An economy that has collectivized the means of production and control of the distribution of goods and services is a socialist economy.

any of various egalitarian economic and political theories or movements advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

If Merriam-Webster is insufficient pretty much every other major reference material backs this definition up.

Public infrastructure/civil services are NOT socialism. That's why Scandinavian countries aren't socialist, but very much capitalist even more so than the US.

 

[ll74]

No it's not.

An economy that has collectivized the means of production and control of the distribution of goods and services is a socialist economy.

Controlled by the government.
Lol

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

If Merriam-Webster is insufficient pretty much every other major reference material backs this definition up.

Public infrastructure/civil services are NOT socialism. That's why Scandinavian countries aren't socialist, but very much capitalist even more so than the US.

So infrastructure isn't a service?

 

[AlexBailey]

No it's not.

An economy that has collectivized the means of production and control of the distribution of goods and services is a socialist economy.


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

If Merriam-Webster is insufficient pretty much every other major reference material backs this definition up.

Public infrastructure/civil services are NOT socialism. That's why Scandinavian countries aren't socialist, but very much capitalist even more so than the US.

Great points.

A market based economy needs socialist policies to ‘promote the general welfare’ and such policies do not indicate that a country has fallen into socialism because that would require the takeover of the means of production.

* Universal healthcare is not socialism.
* Social security is not socialism.
* Public education is not socialism.
* Public welfare policies are not socialism.

 

[ll74]

Great points.

A market based economy needs socialist policies to ‘promote the general welfare’ and such policies do not indicate that a country has fallen into socialism because that would require the takeover of the means of production.

* Universal healthcare is not socialism.
* Social security is not socialism.
* Public education is not socialism.
* Public welfare policies are not socialism.

Same guy who says socialism isn't a political ideology can't understand how socialism exists in most every government in the world.

Goods and services. Infrastructure is a service. Healthcare is a service. Education is a service.

 

[AlexBailey]

The point is to get your thoughts. There’s a reason those countries you mentioned can afford to do all those grandiose things for the people. I just want you to connect the dots. The mandatory service is the lynchpin in your path to understanding. A big percentage of those countries have moved away from MMS, BTW, but that’s only been a recent phenomenon. That’s a topic for another day though.

Please continue and this time connect your comment about Mandatory Service to this conversation in a cogent manner rather than relying on insinuation.

Mandatory service could be good for the US, especially if it included serving in other ways besides military. Having mandatory service that helped serve the needs of elderly, the needs of child care, cleaning up roadways, work with threatened food sources such as fishing habitat, wild land fire management, public infrastructure maintenance…

Put in two years and you and society will reap the benefits for many years to come.

 

[AlexBailey]

Use taxes are 100% sufficient for that.

No labor/property taxes needed.

There is no need for you to accept the US social contract offered to its citizens. You’re free to take your shit and move to wherever you can.

There’s obviously something you get here that you appreciate.

 

[BAstoicguy]

It is always a little more government to right a wrong, just some common-sense regulation for everyone's safety, and the increasing reliance on the whims of irresponsible (unelected, unionized and lacking in consistent oversight) bureaucracies, which leads to an elected democratic system increasingly becoming something that resembles Socialism in the strongest sense possible, but is not founded upon the ideology of Socialism one being top-down and the other organic; a mighty beast that feasts on tax dollars else it denies tidbits from its hoard; this is most certainly not Socialism.

 

[ll74]

A little more AJ to narrate the world

 

[Politruk]

It is always a little more government to right a wrong, just some common-sense regulation for everyone's safety, and the increasing reliance on the whims of irresponsible (unelected, unionized and lacking in consistent oversight) bureaucracies, which leads to an elected democratic system increasingly becoming something that resembles Socialism in the strongest sense possible, but is not founded upon the ideology of Socialism one being top-down and the other organic; a mighty beast that feasts on tax dollars else it denies tidbits from its hoard; this is most certainly not Socialism.

But neither is it a bad thing. The system you are describing gets all needed things done.

 

[AlexBailey]

For the people, of the people, by the people.


The People’s Democratic Republic of the United States of America

 

[UltraChad]

Controlled by the government.
Lol

Yes.

So infrastructure isn't a service?

It is.

Same guy who says socialism isn't a political ideology can't understand how socialism exists in most every government in the world.

Same guy who can't explain how socialism is a political ideology not an economic system doesn't understand that social programs and civil services aren't socialism. Imagine that.

Goods and services. Infrastructure is a service. Healthcare is a service. Education is a service.

Right, that doesn't make them or the economy socialist.

 

[Justplainjeff]

I have often wondered why anyone would be drawn to an economic system that could never work in real life. I have known people that seem smart in some ways but so dumb when it comes to how the economy works. I have wondered, "How can anyone think this is a good idea?" But recently I noticed that most of the people that are sucked into the idea are into smoking pot or other drugs. I think there is something about pot that alters the human brain enough to make socialism seem like a good idea. What do you think?

Bernie Sanders
Alexandria Ocosta-Cortez
Pramilla Jayapol
And enough others that guaranteed Trump's victory.

 

[Politruk]

Same guy who can't explain how socialism is a political ideology not an economic system

There is no reason it cannot be both.

 

[Politruk]

Bernie Sanders
Alexandria Ocosta-Cortez
Pramilla Jayapol
And enough others that guaranteed Trump's victory.

No swing voters voted for Trump because they were afraid of socialism as represented by any of those.

 

[UltraChad]

There is no reason it cannot be both.

The only politics involved with socialism is the authorization of the force and coercion needed for it.

 

[ll74]

The only politics involved with socialism is the authorization of the force and coercion needed for it.

How are your taxes collected these days?

 

[Politruk]

The only politics involved with socialism is the authorization of the force and coercion needed for it.

No, the politics of socialism would encompass absolutely all questions regarding how the state is to manage the means of production.

 

[PaxNurgle]

I have often wondered why anyone would be drawn to an economic system that could never work in real life. I have known people that seem smart in some ways but so dumb when it comes to how the economy works. I have wondered, "How can anyone think this is a good idea?" But recently I noticed that most of the people that are sucked into the idea are into smoking pot or other drugs. I think there is something about pot that alters the human brain enough to make socialism seem like a good idea. What do you think?

What do I think?

I think you don't even know what "Socialism" really is.

It's a label that you ascribe to any altruistic or beneficial thing the government tries to do, that doesnt fit in with your dystopian social-darwinist ideal.

You are not alone in this. I hear efforts to combat racism, improve health care, keep companies from pouring toxins into our water, improve health and safety, fund public school and protect public lands all labeled- or rather, MIS-labeled as "Socialism." And this level of willful ignorance is frustrating.

It's frustrating, because none of these things you claim to be "socialism" are, in fact, socialism. Karl Marx, for example, did not call for a proletarian revolution to end racial discrimination. It is simply an economic theory that the government should own and operate all industry, transportation, and housing.

Very, very few people actually want socialism as an economic system in America. That is, true economic socialism. Not the mainstream, altruistic values that you (and a few others) falsely label as "Socialism."

 

[Lance_Castro]

Socializing on social media leads to socialism.

 

[Politruk]

Socializing on social media leads to socialism.

So?