The Key to understanding socialism

[PaxNurgle]

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I've been saying this for years, but whenever I try to explain this to people like Rightguide and the Hisarpy/Rebelsoul/Icanhelp idiot, it's like talking down to fucking children.

 

[rainsol]

That prevents communism, not socialism.


And certainly it limits socialism.

They are one and the same, ask Lenin

 

[Politruk]

They are one and the same, ask Lenin

Communism -- capital "C" -- is the name of the Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist orthodox form of socialism; there are others.

 

[BAstoicguy]

The only politics involved with socialism is the authorization of the force and coercion needed for it.

I must chide and correct yet once more, patiently, for the politics of Socialist, outside of the elite cadre of the university whose goal by education and inclination is the acquisition and wielding of power, the politics of Socialism are Altruism and why it is such a magnetic draw to so many who want to "change the world,: from the J-school to the Education campus.

Socialism is the secular religion of doin' right, which we all know, "... 's got no end."

 

[BAstoicguy]

They are one and the same, ask Lenin

This is my point. Most -ISMs, to attract, are basically about the same thing: the return to the idyllic myth of the happy, harmonious, sharing and giving tribe. They seem to believe that the past somehow erases human nature, that it mysteriously "evolved" with Capitalism, selfishness, and greed along with the breakup of the tribe (ironically, the lament from those whose altruism broke up many poor families, but I wander off my path) and that if you adopt their brand of -ISM and follow their life rules and allow them the governance, then in the future that corrupted human nature can be reformed back to the myth.

They will never stop. Even though religion is their bane, they are in an eternal quest for Eden past and future while they live in hell. It is a personal hell of ignorance despite the best education that the tribe can muster "harmoniously" in consensus. They should move to Mars to sing their eternal song. (Vonnegut, for the educated secularist)

 

[BAstoicguy]

Parsing definitions is the tell of a clever, but intellectually weak mind. True intellectualism is not the tearing down of an argument but the building of an irresistible counter argument.

Thesis->Antithesis->SINthysist (repeat)



(In other words, for the clever, once you demonstrate an underlying premise sufficiently false, there is no reason to continue to lob shells at your entrenched enemy. It's taking the pig down into his/her/its* own element.

*Not trans. That is so last year Mz Wizz Altruist, that is so last year: AI (You can call me Hal).

 

[JohnEngelman]

Letter from Dwight D. Eisenhower to Edgar Newton Eisenhower (1954)​

by Dwight D. Eisenhower November 8, 1954

Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas.4 Their number is negligible and they are stupid.

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/letter-to-edgar-newton-eisenhower/

 

[BAstoicguy]

Once you stop paying the bribe, the tax, the vig, or the cut up, there is always hell to pay. Sometimes, you just cannot pay the Dane and you get "whacked..."

This is true for lip service too which is cheap for a gazillionaire as they proved such fickle allies of the Left. One lost vote and they fucking deserted, like good mercenaries always do, and still you wonder, and fester over how you managed to lose the culture war when it was a sure thing!

 

[UltraChad]

How are your taxes collected these days?

Under threat of legal punishment.

Why??

 

[UltraChad]

I must chide and correct yet once more, patiently, for the politics of Socialist, outside of the elite cadre of the university whose goal by education and inclination is the acquisition and wielding of power,

Those are the communist, Nazis and other authoritarian socialist.

the politics of Socialism are Altruism

LMFAO!!....no it's of equity. Altruism has fuck all to do with it.

and why it is such a magnetic draw to so many who want to "change the world,: from the J-school to the Education campus.

Socialism is the secular religion of doin' right, which we all know, "... 's got no end."

Yes, lying to the young and stupid is the cultural side of things.

But not the political one.

 

[Rebel5soul]

Socialism appeals to the baser human traits, greed and sloth being high on the list.

 

[ll74]

Under threat of legal punishment.

Why??

So under force

 

[BAstoicguy]

Socialism appeals to the baser human traits, greed and sloth being high on the list.

And still, I contend that on the other side of the coin it inspires those with the trait of altruistic nobility and all forms of government will attract the ruthless and ambitious with opportunity in a time of crises (of which change is one, in this case, involving the fear of the future). Both sides of that coin will be spent with minuscule ROI by the "edges."

 

[LLCox]

I have often wondered why anyone would be drawn to an economic system that could never work in real life. I have known people that seem smart in some ways but so dumb when it comes to how the economy works. I have wondered, "How can anyone think this is a good idea?" But recently I noticed that most of the people that are sucked into the idea are into smoking pot or other drugs. I think there is something about pot that alters the human brain enough to make socialism seem like a good idea. What do you think?

I have been smoking pot since the 60's. Both the Right and the Left only want to control me through laws and money. The best way for me is to not owe anyone anything and keep a low profile. It works. All I have ever done is to recognize opportunity when it is standing in front of me. You do not have to beat yourself and others to death to be secure, happy and comfortable. Excuse me while I smoke another bowl.

 

[dawnonyou]

There are control freaks in all political environments.

 

[dawnonyou]

What do I think?

I think you don't even know what "Socialism" really is.

It's a label that you ascribe to any altruistic or beneficial thing the government tries to do, that doesnt fit in with your dystopian social-darwinist ideal.

You are not alone in this. I hear efforts to combat racism, improve health care, keep companies from pouring toxins into our water, improve health and safety, fund public school and protect public lands all labeled- or rather, MIS-labeled as "Socialism." And this level of willful ignorance is frustrating.

It's frustrating, because none of these things you claim to be "socialism" are, in fact, socialism. Karl Marx, for example, did not call for a proletarian revolution to end racial discrimination. It is simply an economic theory that the government should own and operate all industry, transportation, and housing.

Very, very few people actually want socialism as an economic system in America. That is, true economic socialism. Not the mainstream, altruistic values that you (and a few others) falsely label as "Socialism."

I am well aware of the definition of "Socialism" and the gap between various ideas that fall under that label. Of course there are many types of cancer and the fall under the general term "cancer." So we could play word games about the difference between liberalism and socialism. The real issue is not what you call it. The real issue is big government. More and more laws. More and more control over people. All the control is handed over because of promises that this that and they other thing will be better if the government does it. So call it what you like. It is a cancer.

 

[dawnonyou]

No swing voters voted for Trump because they were afraid of socialism as represented by any of those.

Nice that you are in the unique position to speak for all "swing voters."

 

[BAstoicguy]

There are control freaks in all political environments.

This is why I always speak of the ruthless and ambitious. Human nature is to dominance, submission (and the myriad degrees between) and in any social ordering the wolf week seek preeminence and that which predominates is not always a leader.

 

[Rebel5soul]

And still, I contend that on the other side of the coin it inspires those with the trait of altruistic nobility and all forms of government will attract the ruthless and ambitious with opportunity in a time of crises (of which change is one, in this case, involving the fear of the future). Both sides of that coin will be spent with minuscule ROI by the "edges."

When's the last time you met a politician that didn't love buying votes with other peoples money?

 

[BAstoicguy]

That's how corrupt our concept of government's role in our lives has gotten. Ask what your country has done, does, and will continue to do for you and why the hell aren't they making you feel safe? Isn't that their job? There's crime everywhere and if it's not criminals, it's spies, politicians and undocumented citizens, all untouchable, out of our government's jurisdiction, out of the reach of the people and the unassailable victims. There's crime everywhere...

 

[Politruk]

All the control is handed over because of promises that this that and they other thing will be better if the government does it.

A promise that usually is not difficult to keep.