The light bulb blinked.........

[LorriLove]

Re: Changing his diaper?

Lorrilove:

That is below the age limit.......

And besides, I resemble that remark times 3.... sheesh.....

no honey it's one year above the age limit, i live in the real world

careful with resembling that many times, i hear it has detrimental effects

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Re: giggle

colly darling, we're only as old as the men we feel wow i was groping a 17 yr old the other day

LOL

Go get him Mrs. Robinson!

-Colly

 

[LorriLove]

Re: Re: giggle

LOL

Go get him Mrs. Robinson!

-Colly

well i think a good education is very important these days of school budget cuts and all

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: giggle

LOL

Go get him Mrs. Robinson!

-Colly

She was 5 years older than he was. (Anne Bancroft/Dustin Hoffman). Isn't it amazing?

 

[Icingsugar]

Re: Re: Re: giggle

well i think a good education is very important these days of school budget cuts and all

And who better to teach the youngsters?

/Ice

About the original question. I write fiction. The fiction I post here is fiction about sex. You can wank to it, if you have enough patience. It would probably qualify as soft porn.

 

[Guest]

Back to the thread--

... Porn is art that depicts human sexual prostitution. Erotica is art that depicts human sexual love.

It seems we all agree that porn can be very well written, and erotica very poorly written—but then what? Does poorly written erotica automatically get down-graded to porn? Does well written porn (possibly with an aesthetics to it) automatically get up-graded to erotica? Silly questions, eh? And what does that make of the writing? the writer?

I don’t agree with Gary’s two statements above. What’s love got to do with it? Even if he meant the concept of making love (whatever that is), why can’t plain fucking, without love (romance, tenderness, human kindness, etc.) make up Erotica?

It was proposed to me recently that in general men fuck and women make love. I exclaimed—Wrong! I’ve fucked a lot more men than made love to. That doesn’t mean there was no intimacy or other social intercourse, or even that the men were strangers or one-nighters. I have also fucked men whom I loved, perhaps more often than I made love to them (except for one)—it’s usually easier or more convenient (especially if you’re married-with-children).

The point of the previous paragraph is to segue into this one (stated because I don’t have time to check on whether I can seque gracefully at the moment). Given that most writers tell stories (generally about people), and that human relations are so various—with or without sex and/or love—I find that trying to define porn and erotica nearly pointless except to make other points or self-serving statements. If one then indulges in trying to define the craftsmanship or artistry of writing, it will get very complicated, but I prefer complications, in thinking, to finiteness or academics. Seque-ing on. . .

Like Gary I came to Lit. after some decades of writing, except that my writing has never been commercial. Without pretence I brought my ‘writing self’ to the works I’ve posted here, and at my age I cannot separate that self to purposely focus on and write what Gauche and others call stroke. As I’ve expressed a few times before, I find Gauche falsely modest; my quote in his sig line is out of context. It is obvious to me after reading his stories (and now two poems better than most I’ve read on this site) that he has a mastery of language (or whatever he first learned at school) that includes its physicality, humanity, wit and beauty. I think I do too, so it doesn’t matter whether anyone labels my Lit. work porn, smut, erotica, what-have-you—it’s my work is all.

Perdita

 

[shereads]

Re: Back to the thread--

It was proposed to me recently that in general men fuck and women make love. I exclaimed—Wrong! I’ve fucked a lot more men than made love to. That doesn’t mean there was no intimacy or other social intercourse, or even that the men were strangers or one-nighters. I have also fucked men whom I loved, perhaps more often than I made love to them (except for one)—it’s usually easier or more convenient (especially if you’re married-with-children).

To quote a close friend who was once a closer close friend -



"Women need a reason to have sex; men just need a place."


------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, apparently none of you are writing pornography unless one of your characters is being paid for sex. My dictionary tells me it's from the Greek "pornographos," writing about prostitutes.

 

[CharleyH]

lol - well, guess if you write porn, and write it, well, well? Then your richer than the rest of us . . .

Maybe you can spend that 60 cents on my coffee?

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Back to the thread--

To quote a close friend who was once a closer close friend -

"Women need a reason to have sex; men just need a place."

ella, I hate that idea and wish more women would speak out against it.

Perdita

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Back to the thread--

By the way, apparently none of you are writing pornography unless one of your characters is being paid for sex. My dictionary tells me it's from the Greek "pornographos," writing about prostitutes.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, can we get beyond the dictionary and meaningless terms?

sheesh! Perdita

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: Re: Back to the thread--

ella, I hate that idea and wish more women would speak out against it.

Perdita

When you agree that we don't belong with children in the first lifeboats, I'll speak out against the assumption that women don't enjoy sex for its own sake...But I really don't want to speak out against anything else. I'm tired.

You'd like this guy, Perdita (The "Women need a reason" guy). He was once asked by a young employee who had just slept with his girlfriend for the first time, "What does it mean when a woman cries after sex?"

He replied, "It means you should have taken off her pantyhose first."

Mister Sensitive.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Back to the thread--

When you agree that we don't belong with children in the first lifeboats, I'll speak out against the assumption that women don't enjoy sex for its own sake...

Agreed.

Perdita

p.s. I haven't worn pantyhose since my 30s.

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Back to the thread--

Agreed.

Perdita

p.s. I haven't worn pantyhose since my 30s.

My friend would have no way to know that.

Okay, all of you people stop assuming that women don't enjoy sex for its own sake.

And it's women first into the lifeboats, not women and children first. Women can make more children later on.

::shakes hands with Perdita, ducks and runs for cover::

 

[LorriLove]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Back to the thread--

My friend would have no way to know that.

Okay, all of you people stop assuming that women don't enjoy sex for its own sake.

And it's women first into the lifeboats, not women and children first. Women can make more children later on.

::shakes hands with Perdita, ducks and runs for cover::

we women probably enjoy sex more than the men for a couple of reasons, one; we're a bit more fussy who we do it with and two; we last a fucking sight longer while doing it

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

You've always segued gracefully in my book.

Mwah!

Perdita


p.s. good on Lorri too!

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Back to the thread--

we women probably enjoy sex more than the men for a couple of reasons, one; we're a bit more fussy who we do it with and two; we last a fucking sight longer while doing it

AMEN and pass the batteries

-Colly

 

[mtnman2003]

A little levity..........

Guaranteed battery free

A man wonders if having sex on the Sabbath is a sin, because he is not sure if sex is work or play.

So he goes to a priest and asks for his opinion on this question. After consulting the Bible, the priest says, -"My son, after an exhaustive search, I am positive that sex is work and is therefore not permitted on Sundays."

The man thinks: What does a priest know about sex? So he goes to a Lutheran minister, who after all is a married man and experienced in this matter. He queries the minister and receives the same reply: -"Sex is work and therefore not for the Sabbath."

Not pleased with the reply, he seeks out a Rabbi, a man of thousands of years tradition and knowledge. The Rabbi briefly ponders the question, then states, >-"My son, sex is definitely play."

The man replies, -"Rabbi, how can you be so sure when so many others tell me sex is work?"

The Rabbi softly speaks, -"My son, if sex were work, my wife would have the maid do it."

 

[Herself The Elf]

Re: A little levity..........

The man replies, -"Rabbi, how can you be so sure when so many others tell me sex is work?"

The Rabbi softly speaks, -"My son, if sex were work, my wife would have the maid do it."

This might explain why my ex-boyfriend's parents (the Rabbi and his wife) tended to buy new mattresses rather frequently... and possibly why the Rabbi never tended to be present when his wife asked her son's shiksa girlfriend to pick up a few packs of cigarettes for her on Shabbat

 

[Gary Chambers]

Agreed.

Perdita
p.s. I haven't worn pantyhose since my 30s.

This is what I love about the AH. While other men have to be mind readers, those of us lucky enough to share a cyberblanket with the ladies here invariably get more empirical data than we really needed.

To quote a close friend who was once a closer close friend -



"Women need a reason to have sex; men just need a place."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, apparently none of you are writing pornography unless one of your characters is being paid for sex. My dictionary tells me it's from the Greek "pornographos," writing about prostitutes.

Perdita wants some man to speak out against this reason vs place concept. Perdita my dear, you must have missed it first time around because I already did, but I'm happy to explain again. I don't think anyone, male or female, just needs a place to have sex. The statement implies that men do not want to know their lover's name, probably could care less about foreplay and get no pleasure out of seeing, hearing or feeling their lover's satisfaction. Nothing could be further from the truth. The need to satisfy one's lover is deeply ingrained in the male psyche. It's linked to our self worth, and some measure of personal familiarity is required to achieve that goal.

Love is a bargain, a compromise two people can live with. In a long term relationship, personal loyalties and emotional attachments can become part of a state of mind we call love. In a one night stand there is no need or opportunity for that kind of loyalty, but there is still a need for lust to motivate two individuals to give as much pleasure as they seek. And that lust is also a loving state of mind if only for a few hours. I don’t care what other men want or feel and I won’t speak for them, but I want to feel my lover’s passion; if not a passion for me then a passion for life’s carnal pleasures, expressed through each other. If I can’t have that with you, then I don’t want you. I’d rather spank my own monkey. Good sex involves taking a chance on getting close enough to someone, however briefly; to expose our vulnerability to each other. Finding someone with whom to share that kind of experience involves a bit more than just finding a place to shag.

I know a seventeen-year-old hooker. I don’t just want her, I want to hold her and keep her safe in my embrace. I know I can’t have that, but it’s what I want, and because I can’t have what I want I’ve never had sex with her. Screw the law. I don’t need it. I’ve got my own law and it says treat that girl right. It says love her even if she can’t love you back. I’m not saying I’ll never pay her for sex. I’m just saying the money must be part of a game we share as friends, and if not it stays in my pocket, tucked away next to my dick. One day I may well compromise enough to love that hooker for a few hours, but only if she compromises enough to show me the woman she is instead of the machine. After that I will only need a place.

Edit BTW Perdita The porn and erotica definitions I offered were actual dictionary definitions not opinions. I accept that everyone tends to establish their own meaning for those words, and yours make as much sense as mine. The dictionary definitions just provide a common basis for discussion.

 

[Guest]

Gary, you addressed me in your post so I do not want to be discourteous and ignore you, but I really don't understand why you addressed me. I still don't agree with you but that wasn't the point of my post; your statements were merely a springboard for mine within the context of the general topic of this thread.

Thanks anyway.

Perdita

 

[shereads]

I don't think anyone, male or female, just needs a place to have sex. The statement implies that men do not want to know their lover's name, probably could care less about foreplay and get no pleasure out of seeing, hearing or feeling their lover's satisfaction. Nothing could be further from the truth. The need to satisfy one's lover is deeply ingrained in the male psyche. It's linked to our self worth, and some measure of personal familiarity is required to achieve that goal.

Men tend to be a bit less discriminating in your selection of lovers...Oh hell, let's not mince words. You are dawgs.

As proof, I submit a conversation I once had with a male coworker. A handsome man, married to a lovely woman, and constantly coming on to his female coworkers. i was young and found it flattering until I realized he flirted with all of us, including the woman who was said to "give good snout."

I asked this gentleman one day, if he could think of anybody he wouldn't sleep with (I was a tender young thing, so I did say it like that - "sleep with" ) and he said that honestly, he couldn't.

I asked about Minnie Pearl, trying to name the one person that, if I were a man, would appeal to me the least.

He blushed. Actually blushed.

"I think I would do her...But not with the hat. The hat would have to go."

 

[Gary Chambers]

Gary, you addressed me in your post so I do not want to be discourteous and ignore you, but I really don't understand why you addressed me. I still don't agree with you but that wasn't the point of my post; your statements were merely a springboard for mine within the context of the general topic of this thread.

Thanks anyway.

Perdita

It's no big deal. You said you wished more men would speak out against the idea that women need a reason to have sex and men just need a place. At least that's what I thought you said. Since I find the idea insulting I thought I'd respond. But now I'm a bit confused as to what we disagree on. Are you saying you still disagree with the dictionary definitions of porn and erotica, or are you disagreeing with something I said about writing or relationships? I can't debate dictionary definitions. They are what they are. But I'm interested in any points you might make about writing or about the so called battle of the sexes.

 

[shereads]

And I'm interested in how many men would sleep with Minnie Pearl, were she alive, and if she took off the hat.

 

[Guest]

Gary, I don't think I said I wanted more men to speak out, I was merely protesting the statement that ella quoted is all. At the beginning of my long post above I said I didn't agree with your statements about the diffs between porn and erotica (I quoted you in the post) and I thought I explained why. Re. dictionary definitions I protested the use of them in this discussion, i.e., I think we can get beyond that when attempting to define what we, as writers, think.

As to my confusion re. why you addressed me, it didn't seem to have much to do with my post.

Perdita