the pyshological side of the "slave"

[intothewoods]

I agree and I don't. I do get annoyed with submission is x, y and z whatever because I said so, without any respect for the meaning of the word, because if we use it to mean everything, it will mean nothing. On the other hand, the reality is that a wide range of relationships here are identified as M/s or D/s.

 

[SlaveNienna]

The simple act of seeking out a dominant to complete your submission is a self interested act. It's ridiculous to expect an individual to be completely selfless. It goes against the nature of life. Don't let it bother you when others try to confine you into a neat little box that defines the nature within yourself. Only you can truly search within and find the nature there that is. If it is, then it is. Plain and simple. There is no need for a community agreement to reassure you of the truth your reason has already brought you to.

 

[nh23]

If given the choice, or if given a way to finagle the situation, yeah I'm more likely to do what... I wouldn't say what makes me happy, but what is more comfortable for me. I would never do something that would make my PYL unhappy, if I knew that that would be the result. But if there is something I can do that is more comfortable for me, that fulfills my needs, and yes, that makes me happy without causing discomfort or unhappiness in my PYL, then most likely I'm going to do that.

And I don't think that makes me less submissive. I think it just makes me a different kind of submissive than most people are used to running into.

I think anyone who says that they never think of their own wants and needs isn't telling the truth. The difference to me is our actions. If Master tells me to do a load of laundry and I really don't want to. Sure I'll think to myself I really don't want to do that. But my actions show compliance. I will do it. I won't always do it with a smile on my face, but I wouldn't act like a brat or a bitch about it, because to me that is just another form of topping from the bottom.

And yeah, this.

But what if you don't always put your PYL first? It's like, once you say that, you're out of the club. Memberships been revoked.

I'm not really sure how to reply to this one. What if I don't put my Master first? What if I tell him no and don't do the things he asks. What if I do them and top from the bottom by acting bitchy or bratty and making him regret telling me. For me that would mean that end of our relationship. He would end it. There would be no M/s in our relationship anymore. I find my happiness in doing what makes him happy.

 

[00Syd]

I agree and I don't. I do get annoyed with submission is x, y and z whatever because I said so, without any respect for the meaning of the word, because if we use it to mean everything, it will mean nothing. On the other hand, the reality is that a wide range of relationships here are identified as M/s or D/s.

I just feel like there is no other word available to me in the English language to describe the way I am in terms of a relationship. When one is invented that I think better describes me, I'll use that.

 

[BiBunny]

I don't think "doing what they want" and "doing what I want" are necessarily on opposite ends of the spectrum from one another. I want them to be happy. They want me to be happy. It's a *gasp* relationship. We work at it. We compromise.

For example, the way Mistress communicates and the way I communicate are two completely different things. Like, it's not even apples and oranges. It's like...apples and elephants.

She has a compulsive need to...talk...everything...to...death. Drives me freaking nuts. I will only talk about things if they're really, really, really bothering me, and I see absolutely no other alternative. Drives her freaking nuts.

She's extremely extroverted. I'm extremely introverted. Sometimes, we have a really hard time understanding one another. Master, who is also pretty introverted, though not to the extent that I am, sometimes has to mediate between the two of us.

Sure, she could take a hard line and demand that I talk to her about any and everything. In fact, at the beginning of our relationship, she tried to do that. But the problem is, when I'm pushed, I completely shut down and become unable to communicate at all. Pretty much the most I can do is cry and wail, "What do you want from me?"

She wanted my innermost thoughts. I wanted the time to process those thoughts, so I could talk about them coherently. In order for us both to get what we wanted to make our relationship stronger, we had to compromise. She agreed to back off and take some of the pressure off me if I agreed to talk about things that were bothering me before they blew up into a huge fight.

So that's what we do. And Master helps us not throttle one another when our tempers flare, LOL.

But, yeah, the three of us consider everyone's needs when there's a problem that comes up. Maybe that's not too domly or submissive, but that's what we have to do in order to make our relationship work.

 

[00Syd]

I'm not really sure how to reply to this one. What if I don't put my Master first? What if I tell him no and don't do the things he asks. What if I do them and top from the bottom by acting bitchy or bratty and making him regret telling me. For me that would mean that end of our relationship. He would end it. There would be no M/s in our relationship anymore. I find my happiness in doing what makes him happy.

There is also the difference of M/s and D/s.

But even within the spectrum of specifically D/s there are tons of different relationships that work different ways. I am submissive to Seb in a way that works for both of us, and that is really all that matters. But just because the way I am submissive may differ from a bunch of peoples opinions of what a submissive is doesn't make me any less of one because the only person who's opinion on the matter has any weight is Seb.

ETA: Wow, look at me! I'm all self confident and shit. I should celebrate somehow.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't think "doing what they want" and "doing what I want" are necessarily on opposite ends of the spectrum from one another. I want them to be happy. They want me to be happy. It's a *gasp* relationship. We work at it. We compromise.

For example, the way Mistress communicates and the way I communicate are two completely different things. Like, it's not even apples and oranges. It's like...apples and elephants.

She has a compulsive need to...talk...everything...to...death. Drives me freaking nuts. I will only talk about things if they're really, really, really bothering me, and I see absolutely no other alternative. Drives her freaking nuts.

She's extremely extroverted. I'm extremely introverted. Sometimes, we have a really hard time understanding one another. Master, who is also pretty introverted, though not to the extent that I am, sometimes has to mediate between the two of us.

Sure, she could take a hard line and demand that I talk to her about any and everything. In fact, at the beginning of our relationship, she tried to do that. But the problem is, when I'm pushed, I completely shut down and become unable to communicate at all. Pretty much the most I can do is cry and wail, "What do you want from me?"

She wanted my innermost thoughts. I wanted the time to process those thoughts, so I could talk about them coherently. In order for us both to get what we wanted to make our relationship stronger, we had to compromise. She agreed to back off and take some of the pressure off me if I agreed to talk about things that were bothering me before they blew up into a huge fight.

So that's what we do. And Master helps us not throttle one another when our tempers flare, LOL.

But, yeah, the three of us consider everyone's needs when there's a problem that comes up. Maybe that's not too domly or submissive, but that's what we have to do in order to make our relationship work.

Oh, you're in a relationship with me! Sorry. Feel free to PM if you want to talk-- oh wait, you don't want to talk about it. Carry on!

 

[BiBunny]

Oh, you're in a relationship with me! Sorry. Feel free to PM if you want to talk-- oh wait, you don't want to talk about it. Carry on!

LMAO!

 

[Homburg]

I just feel like there is no other word available to me in the English language to describe the way I am in terms of a relationship. When one is invented that I think better describes me, I'll use that.

"Kinky."

Seriously. There is nothing written that says that you have to be a submissive or slave or bottom. JM made a post about people that want an assertive partner, to be roughed up, and lots of sexual attention. I thought it was a good description of a general personality type that frequently winds up either lumped in with submissives, or thinking that submissive is the only definition possible.

It is possible to just be generally kinky.

--

I don't think "doing what they want" and "doing what I want" are necessarily on opposite ends of the spectrum from one another. I want them to be happy. They want me to be happy. It's a *gasp* relationship. We work at it. We compromise.

For example, the way Mistress communicates and the way I communicate are two completely different things. Like, it's not even apples and oranges. It's like...apples and elephants.

She has a compulsive need to...talk...everything...to...death. Drives me freaking nuts. I will only talk about things if they're really, really, really bothering me, and I see absolutely no other alternative. Drives her freaking nuts.

She's extremely extroverted. I'm extremely introverted. Sometimes, we have a really hard time understanding one another. Master, who is also pretty introverted, though not to the extent that I am, sometimes has to mediate between the two of us.

Sure, she could take a hard line and demand that I talk to her about any and everything. In fact, at the beginning of our relationship, she tried to do that. But the problem is, when I'm pushed, I completely shut down and become unable to communicate at all. Pretty much the most I can do is cry and wail, "What do you want from me?"

She wanted my innermost thoughts. I wanted the time to process those thoughts, so I could talk about them coherently. In order for us both to get what we wanted to make our relationship stronger, we had to compromise. She agreed to back off and take some of the pressure off me if I agreed to talk about things that were bothering me before they blew up into a huge fight.

So that's what we do. And Master helps us not throttle one another when our tempers flare, LOL.

But, yeah, the three of us consider everyone's needs when there's a problem that comes up. Maybe that's not too domly or submissive, but that's what we have to do in order to make our relationship work.

This post is so full of win.

This is gold on so many levels.

ETA: I'm the "talk everything to death" person, and viv is the "bottle up and choke on it" one. MIS, in her own way, does what your Master does often times.

 

[nh23]

I just feel like there is no other word available to me in the English language to describe the way I am in terms of a relationship. When one is invented that I think better describes me, I'll use that.

Bottom?

There is also the difference of M/s and D/s.

But even within the spectrum of specifically D/s there are tons of different relationships that work different ways. I am submissive to Seb in a way that works for both of us, and that is really all that matters. But just because the way I am submissive may differ from a bunch of peoples opinions of what a submissive is doesn't make me any less of one because the only person who's opinion on the matter has any weight is Seb.

You're right. What matters is what he wants and thinks. I will say however by and large the definition of a submissive/slave is an individual who puts the needs of their PYL above their own. So when it's discussed in BDSM groups, this definition is what most people think of, myself included. I wouldn't read a post saying Master said to do such and such and I said no being from a submissive. Anymore than I would read a post describing an orange as a purple fruit as an orange. Maybe there are purple oranges..but that's not the first thing that comes to mind.

I'm not trying to be rude or demean you in anyway if that's how it's coming out. I was just curious. I think we should all live what makes us happy.

 

[BiBunny]

This post is so full of win.

This is gold on so many levels.

ETA: I'm the "talk everything to death" person, and viv is the "bottle up and choke on it" one. MIS, in her own way, does what your Master does often times.

Thank you.

Also, I'm glad to know someone else knows how that works, LOL.

 

[00Syd]

"Kinky."

Seriously. There is nothing written that says that you have to be a submissive or slave or bottom. JM made a post about people that want an assertive partner, to be roughed up, and lots of sexual attention. I thought it was a good description of a general personality type that frequently winds up either lumped in with submissives, or thinking that submissive is the only definition possible.

It is possible to just be generally kinky.

Well, sure. But within the context of the relationship, which does have an element of power play to it, I am the pyl. The label that I pick, because it fits better than the other options, is submissive.

I guess I could call myself a kinky receiver of abuse from a person in a position of power within the relationship. But submissive is shorter.

 

[Homburg]

Thank you.

Also, I'm glad to know someone else knows how that works, LOL.

Dude, I so empathise with your Mistress. Seriously. When viv does that bottle-up thing it drives me fucking insane. I sympathise with her (and you), as it has to suck, but, wow, in the moment, I'm incensed. Poor MIS is stuck. She can't gracefully interfere, but she usually does get me to work things out afterwards, and allows us to move forward with better communication sometimes. I can be a wee bit implacable though...

 

[intothewoods]

LMAO!

Couldn't resist. Sounds just like me! Trouble is, I'm also now with a talker. It's great. But wow, do we analyze shit to death.

I just feel like there is no other word available to me in the English language to describe the way I am in terms of a relationship. When one is invented that I think better describes me, I'll use that.

Well, I do think deferring to the PYL's will is kind of basic non-bedroom submission, but I must say that plenty of self-identified subs and slaves claim to put their PYL first and then wrangle what they want out of the PYL. So I hate to bag on you for being honest! It's a good question though - if you set out to please the PYL based on reward/good feelings/carrot for you and not because he said so, but he is always pleased, does that mean it's not submission?

If a tree falls in a forest...

 

[Homburg]

Well, sure. But within the context of the relationship, which does have an element of power play to it, I am the pyl. The label that I pick, because it fits better than the other options, is submissive.

I guess I could call myself a kinky receiver of abuse from a person in a position of power within the relationship. But submissive is shorter.

Meh. The use of the word "submissive" as a label has caused you anxiety, unhappiness, and consternation. If it doesn't fit, and it doesn't, why use it? Personally, I'd agree with nh23 and say "bottom", and have suggested it before. Yeah, I know, you don't like it, but at least you would not have the set of expectations that seem to bother you.

 

[myinnerslut]

Thank you.

Also, I'm glad to know someone else knows how that works, LOL.

yeah.

if you ever want to not talk about it, my PM box is always open

 

[nh23]

Couldn't resist. Sounds just like me! Trouble is, I'm also now with a talker. It's great. But wow, do we analyze shit to death.



Well, I do think deferring to the PYL's will is kind of basic non-bedroom submission, but I must say that plenty of self-identified subs and slaves claim to put their PYL first and then wrangle what they want out of the PYL. So I hate to bag on you for being honest! It's a good question though - if you set out to please the PYL based on reward/good feelings/carrot for you and not because he said so, but he is always pleased, does that mean it's not submission?

If a tree falls in a forest...

Well really it is the good feelings/carrot for all of us. If pleasing your PYL gives you happy feelings..we're getting something out of it too. Even if it's not something we wanted to do in the first place.

 

[00Syd]

Meh. The use of the word "submissive" as a label has caused you anxiety, unhappiness, and consternation. If it doesn't fit, and it doesn't, why use it? Personally, I'd agree with nh23 and say "bottom", and have suggested it before. Yeah, I know, you don't like it, but at least you would not have the set of expectations that seem to bother you.

I just feel like "bottom" is just as inaccurate as submissive, and maybe more so. But its true that it is a much easier catch-all with less expectations.

 

[BiBunny]

yeah.

if you ever want to not talk about it, my PM box is always open

*Giggle* Thank you!

ETA: In the interest of adding something more to the discussion of labels, I've basically dropped "switch" for myself. "Switch" comes with a set of expectations, much like "submissive" does that bug me. I'm not dominant, and I'm not here to enable some so-called "sub's" list o' fetishes. I just like hurting people sometimes. I don't really identify with "submissive" or "slave," either, but I usually stick with "slave" if pressed. That's mostly because what I actually identify as (sadomasochistic service pet) is never an option.

 

[nh23]

I just feel like "bottom" is just as inaccurate as submissive, and maybe more so. But its true that it is a much easier catch-all with less expectations.

Maybe we could make up a new label..and name it after you! Sydmissive

 

[intothewoods]

I just feel like "bottom" is just as inaccurate as submissive, and maybe more so. But its true that it is a much easier catch-all with less expectations.

Because bottom doesn't refer to the power exchange.

Well really it is the good feelings/carrot for all of us. If pleasing your PYL gives you happy feelings..we're getting something out of it too. Even if it's not something we wanted to do in the first place.

I guess the question is what is the power in the exchange? Maybe it's following a leader whose leadership style is reward-oriented.

 

[00Syd]

Well, I do think deferring to the PYL's will is kind of basic non-bedroom submission, but I must say that plenty of self-identified subs and slaves claim to put their PYL first and then wrangle what they want out of the PYL. So I hate to bag on you for being honest! It's a good question though - if you set out to please the PYL based on reward/good feelings/carrot for you and not because he said so, but he is always pleased, does that mean it's not submission?

If a tree falls in a forest...

I feel like if more people were true to themselves about what they want and the way they think, and were able to analyze themselves to some small extent, there would be less submissives and someone would have come up with a word that better describes myself.

 

[00Syd]

Because bottom doesn't refer to the power exchange.

Right, exactly. That's both why there are less expectations and why I think its just as inaccurate to call myself a bottom as it is to call myself submissive.

 

[intothewoods]

I feel like if more people were true to themselves about what they want and the way they think, and were able to analyze themselves to some small extent, there would be less submissives and someone would have come up with a word that better describes myself.

I'm all about self-analysis and honesty in relationships. I'm absolutely a pleaser but I certainly articulate my wants and needs. I would say my instict is not to put myself first but to make it win-win for everyone. In fact, that's totally a theme in my life. Make everyone, including myself, feel satisfied.

 

[BiBunny]

Maybe we could make up a new label..and name it after you! Sydmissive

That is too cute!

Right, exactly. That's both why there are less expectations and why I think its just as inaccurate to call myself a bottom as it is to call myself submissive.

Pet? That's my default label, even if the HNGs have kinda turned into something stupid and cloying.