The Rape Fantasy

[catalina_francisco]

James,

I agree. It's this very same weirdness that puts the Feminists in bed with the Right Wing.


-B

Sorry to say obviously you have been around a different brand of feminist than I belong to. Like most things, feminists come in varied flavours and persuasions, but are labelled under one narrow banner.

Catalina

 

[James G 5]

Sorry to say obviously you have been around a different brand of feminist than I belong to. Like most things, feminists come in varied flavours and persuasions, but are labelled under one narrow banner.

Catalina

I doubt Bridge was refering to feminists in general
But there is a long history in the US of feminsit groups, going back to the sufferage and anti-alcohol movements, allying themselves with conservative groups who otherwise work to keep women down
Strange bedfellows & all
And since the Reagan era certain conservative groups have used this as a method to actively undermine feminist causes
It's much easier to discredit those who're seen as shrieking, dictatorial "femi-Nazis"

 

[catalina_francisco]

Not just in the US though they are the most agressive from what I have seen....fortunately there is a slow increase in the opposite breed so we should have them outnumbered or enlightened in no time. LOL.

Catalina

 

[bridgeburner]

Catalina,

James has the right of it. There are an infinite number of types of feminism. No one could argue that Andrea Dworkin is not a feminist even if he doesn't subscribe to her particular brand of feminism. Dworkin is rabidly anti-porn albeit for different reasons than the Christian Coalition. This does not in any way mitigate the fact that both Dworkin and the CC are working to limit sexual freedom for the masses.

Marilyn Chambers is my kind of feminist. I just with there were more like her.



-B

 

[James G 5]

Catalina,

James has the right of it. There are an infinite number of types of feminism. No one could argue that Andrea Dworkin is not a feminist even if he doesn't subscribe to her particular brand of feminism. Dworkin is rabidly anti-porn albeit for different reasons than the Christian Coalition. This does not in any way mitigate the fact that both Dworkin and the CC are working to limit sexual freedom for the masses.

Marilyn Chambers is my kind of feminist. I just with there were more like her.



-B

Marilyns OK but Nina Hartley's far more outspoken, educated, and active
A truly nifty lady

 

[bridgeburner]

I.

Can't.

Believe.

I did that.


Yes, Nina Hartley.


sheesh.


-B (who has trouble keeping her porn-stars sorted)

 

[James G 5]

I.

Can't.

Believe.

I did that.


Yes, Nina Hartley.


sheesh.


-B (who has trouble keeping her porn-stars sorted)

ROFL
's ok
Nina's cool, I have a nifty (autographed!) poster of her standing on front of the Constitution in nothing but a thong with a giant pen in her hand

 

[bridgeburner]

God Bless Nina Hartley

In liberty's name we pray!


-B

 

[shereads]

I can't speak for others, but I think my rape fantasies, like sexual submissiveness, come from having grown up in a sexually repressive environment. Maybe it's also the explanation for why I was never attracted to men my age when I was in high school and college. I knew I didn't lack a sex drive - I loved my "bodice ripper" novels too much for that. When I fell madly in lust for the first time, it was with an older man, college professor, and married. Those two factors seemed to be equally important in making a man intensely attractive to me: the illusion that he's in control so "it's not my fault." Coupled with the fact that the relationship with the unobtainable married man carries it's own, built-in punishment.

I think some of us in Sexual Roleplay are hesitant to play out rape fantasies because we're aware that younger males, and some of the more clueless older ones, may lack the sophistication to understand that rape fantasy and rape are as different from each other as playing cowboys-and-Indians versus actually shooting someone or getting scalped alive.

The fantasy, whether it's my own or in the stories I enjoy, invariably leads to great sex with a powerful, confident man (or men) whose cruelty is tempered with the need to make me cum and who instinctively knows how to make it happen.

The fantasy rapist, if he were real, wouldn't have time to rape an unwilling victim. He'd be too busy with the women who are standing in line to sleep with a guy whose instincts are infallible - he knows precisely where and how and when to touch, and how hard, and what to say, to drive a woman over the edge. Women would buy tickets.

I've never heard of a female rape victim who had an orgasm during the attack. Or one who described her attacker as "manly" "potent" "a stud."

I thought until recently that most adults these days know that rape is not about a powerful man and a pretty woman getting it on. A 77-year-old grandmother is as likely to be a victim of rape when a burglar enters her home, as a cute girl in a short dress leaving the office late.

Yet just last year, I heard a woman in my workplace, remarking on a rape that happened near our building, say that she knew the victim and "the way she dresses, she's just been asking for it."

If there are woman who don't know the difference between rape as criminal violence and rape as a non-consent fantasy bed romp, how many men might there be, and is there a danger that they misread women's attraction to the fantasy? Is it read as a come-on?

But I digress.

To the original poster - What your girlfriend is likely looking for is guilt-free sex; providing her with the rape fantasy shouldn't make you feel that you're hurting or abusing her. You're giving her something that she finds arousing because of something in her background that makes arousal unacceptable. If playing a harmless game helps her relax and fully enjoy her sexuality, you'll be doing her an enormous favor.

 

[Pure]

Hi Shereads

You said a number of interesting things in your well thought out posting. For instance about the origins of some fantasies.

On one point, however, you said, "I've never heard of a female rape victim who had an orgasm during the attack."

I have heard of this and did a little google search for docs. Anyone else have info?

The body has a 'mind of its own' you know. This is not so say this orgasm is welcome (as in the 'nonconsent' fantasies here at lit.)

J.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Hi Shereads

You said a number of interesting things in your well thought out posting. For instance about the origins of some fantasies.

On one point, however, you said, "I've never heard of a female rape victim who had an orgasm during the attack."

I have heard of this and did a little google search for docs. Anyone else have info?

The body has a 'mind of its own' you know. This is not so say this orgasm is welcome (as in the 'nonconsent' fantasies here at lit.)

J.

it is true...those who are raped (women and men, girls and boys) do sometimes have orgasms. it's an uncontrollable physical reaction to being stimulated in some way, COMPLETELY unrelated to true/actual physical pleasure. but yes, it is not so rare for a rape victim to cum.

as for rape fantasies, i have them myself. but unlike the typical rape fantasies, i do not want to on some level "enjoy" the experience...making it in no way shape or form a rape, but simply aggressive, "rough" sex. i have a desire within me for true rape, with all the pain and suffering (emotional as well as physical) it can cause. i do not know why. i think it may be my maso need for suffering, for abuse.

 

[James G 5]

I can't speak for others, but I think my rape fantasies, like sexual submissiveness, come from having grown up in a sexually repressive environment. Maybe it's also the explanation for why I was never attracted to men my age when I was in high school and college. I knew I didn't lack a sex drive - I loved my "bodice ripper" novels too much for that. When I fell madly in lust for the first time, it was with an older man, college professor, and married. Those two factors seemed to be equally important in making a man intensely attractive to me: the illusion that he's in control so "it's not my fault." Coupled with the fact that the relationship with the unobtainable married man carries it's own, built-in punishment.

The "not my fault" thing is a common response to sexual guilt, especially in women. I've commented before about women who can onl allow themselves (mentally) to orgasm if bound or "forced" because then it's not under their control & they don't have to feel the guilt they've been taught. (and before anyone chimes in, I am NOT saying this is everyone in every case, just SOME people in SOME cases)

I think some of us in Sexual Roleplay are hesitant to play out rape fantasies because we're aware that younger males, and some of the more clueless older ones, may lack the sophistication to understand that rape fantasy and rape are as different from each other as playing cowboys-and-Indians versus actually shooting someone or getting scalped alive.

This is a major issue, I think that might be why the original poster was here asking, he's seeking such understanding

The fantasy, whether it's my own or in the stories I enjoy, invariably leads to great sex with a powerful, confident man (or men) whose cruelty is tempered with the need to make me cum and who instinctively knows how to make it happen.

The fantasy rapist, if he were real, wouldn't have time to rape an unwilling victim. He'd be too busy with the women who are standing in line to sleep with a guy whose instincts are infallible - he knows precisely where and how and when to touch, and how hard, and what to say, to drive a woman over the edge. Women would buy tickets.

That's how MOST women's "rape" fantasies are...which is why in the past people have suggested that type of fantasy be called a "ravishment fantasy" instead of a rape fantasy

I've never heard of a female rape victim who had an orgasm during the attack. Or one who described her attacker as "manly" "potent" "a stud."

It DOES happen, as a purely physical reaction...it's a serious problem for the women, as they often feel having an orgasm means they somehow liked it or asked for it. Adds a whole extra level of mental damage.

I thought until recently that most adults these days know that rape is not about a powerful man and a pretty woman getting it on. A 77-year-old grandmother is as likely to be a victim of rape when a burglar enters her home, as a cute girl in a short dress leaving the office late.

Yet just last year, I heard a woman in my workplace, remarking on a rape that happened near our building, say that she knew the victim and "the way she dresses, she's just been asking for it."

If there are woman who don't know the difference between rape as criminal violence and rape as a non-consent fantasy bed romp, how many men might there be, and is there a danger that they misread women's attraction to the fantasy? Is it read as a come-on?

Depends on the CLASS of rape. A lot of so-called "date" or acquaintance rape revolves around mixed signals and misguided sex rather than simply power. The motivations & triggers are usually very different than stranger rape. In some cases, a guy who's out with a girl who's "dressed sexy" and has a few drinks with him might take it as a cue that she's interested and then just push & push to the point of force if she doesn't carry thru with what he thought she was suggesting. I am NOT justifying it or saying he's right, just saying in that case hwo he perceives her & her behavior is more of a trigger than a guy who crawls thru the window of an 84 year old woman.

But I digress.

To the original poster - What your girlfriend is likely looking for is guilt-free sex; providing her with the rape fantasy shouldn't make you feel that you're hurting or abusing her. You're giving her something that she finds arousing because of something in her background that makes arousal unacceptable. If playing a harmless game helps her relax and fully enjoy her sexuality, you'll be doing her an enormous favor.

Agreed, and like I said I think it's good that he's asking & he's probably trying to avoid some of the pitfalls you mentioned above.

 

[shereads]

Thanks for your thoughtful replies.

Wouldn't life be simpler if so many of our fantasies didn't have to do with crossing the line into the forbidden? If we could re-do our dna, en masse, so that we craved tossed salads instead of ice cream sundaes; and that sex with one lifetime partner seemed like the most thrilling thing that could happen; and that, failing that, sex with condoms was the ultimate turn-on for all adults.

There would be no such thing as date-rape, because confusion wouldn't exist.

The movie "Pleasantville."



that's interesting about rape victims having orgasms. Jesus, talk about being made to feel like you were "asking for it."

There's a certain antidepressant drug that causes involuntary orgasms in a few women whenever they yawn. People hear that and think, Yowsa! Write me a prescription! But the women it's happening to don't like the experience, and if you try to imagine having an orgasm sneak up on you while you're bathing your kid or at the procologist - the Big O could be the Big Oh No.

 

[curious2y]

Perhaps what she is truely looking for is the ability to be turned on, and the "rape" is nothing more than her "giving in" if you will to the fact that she wants to be submissive, or domnated in a fashion that will allow her to "cum" or experience pleasure becuase she harbors other issues. Perhaps she is not sure how to deal with.
Having been molested at a realitvely earlier age, I too have my own issues.

For me, the ability to completely submit to someone is very arousing. To be able to "cum" aagainst my will so to speak is very desirble because it releases me from making the decision that I was fighting while being molested. Your body will respond, although you have no control over it....
When you suffer from such an emotional ordeal, your views of things are some what skewed.
I remember what he did to me felt really good on the physical level, but the emotiional level could not take it. It in turn makes one feel soiled, or less than a human being. It is not what the BSDM lifesytle is, but certain aspects you can identify with.
I am still working through this some 15 years later.
What I due know is that there is someone out there for me - yes I have actually found him again, but I am still fighting my primal urgess of survial.
How due you trust another again? How due you go beyond that? I have figured out how, but it has taken me 10 yrs.
So where are you two actually coming from?
One can not answer these questions without a few of their own....

 

[James G 5]

Thanks for your thoughtful replies.

Wouldn't life be simpler if so many of our fantasies didn't have to do with crossing the line into the forbidden? If we could re-do our dna, en masse, so that we craved tossed salads instead of ice cream sundaes; and that sex with one lifetime partner seemed like the most thrilling thing that could happen; and that, failing that, sex with condoms was the ultimate turn-on for all adults.

There would be no such thing as date-rape, because confusion wouldn't exist.

Gods, how boring THAT would be
How about we just work to remove a lot of the stigma & shame people attach to sex in all its glorious forms and stive to educate people about how to handle themselves in regards to sex properly, only segregating those who do harm thru some pathology of their own by doing things such as forcing themslves on the non-consenting (including kids and others incapable of informed consent)

That'd be a LOT more fun and probably eliminate a lot of these problems

 

[Marquis]

it is true...those who are raped (women and men, girls and boys) do sometimes have orgasms. it's an uncontrollable physical reaction to being stimulated in some way, COMPLETELY unrelated to true/actual physical pleasure. but yes, it is not so rare for a rape victim to cum.

as for rape fantasies, i have them myself. but unlike the typical rape fantasies, i do not want to on some level "enjoy" the experience...making it in no way shape or form a rape, but simply aggressive, "rough" sex. i have a desire within me for true rape, with all the pain and suffering (emotional as well as physical) it can cause. i do not know why. i think it may be my maso need for suffering, for abuse.

I started a thread a while back trying to figure out if anyone really felt that way. At the time most people seemed to think not.

 

[Pure]

OSG said,

i have a desire within me for true rape, with all the pain and suffering (emotional as well as physical) it can cause. i do not know why. i think it may be my maso need for suffering, for abuse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marquis said,

//I started a thread a while back trying to figure out if anyone really felt that way. At the time most people seemed to think not.//
====
Hi Ya Marquis,

It wasn't a good sample of 'people', since osg's view is frowned upon.

She show a lot of courage to post as she did.

OTOH, I wonder at why you're surprised Marquis. People even have fantasy desires around torture, maiming or even murder, i.e., undergoing it.

A 'true rape' is only middling on the scale, imo, compared to the possible and actual nasties humans have inflicted, say burning at the stake. And other humans have found them strangely compelling--e.g., they read about them and get moved in some weird way, or turned on. Who's been buying all those copies of Juliette? Who was visiting the torture murder sections of other online sites, (to some extent these were in the late deceased, "extreme" section).**

J.


**Note: obviously there's another possibility, but it can't account for 100%,imo: People are reading those stories, with fantasies of *doing the nasty acts.

J.

 

[DVS]

I didn't read all of the other posts in this thread, but here's my opinion.

If she asks you to do this, and you care for her, you should try to do it for her. But, if you just can't force yourself to do it, you must tell her you can't.

She will then have to live without this need, and you will live with knowing you didn't satisfy a need she had. If you can both deal with this, that could be the way to go.

But, there are ways to have rough sex without beating and without leaving bruises and hurting someone. Talk it over with her. She might allow you to just be rough when you tie her up. After she's bound, she might feel helpless enough to get the satisfaction she needs, and you won't have to get into anything you don't feel good about.

Personally, I understand some of how you feel. I could never hit a woman with my closed fist. If someone asks me to, I don't think I could do it. I would be too concerned I would hurt her. I don't even feel good about slapping her.

BUT, I am a Dom, and make no mistake about that. There are ways to take control and keep control without hurting a woman. Some things just take a little practice.

The thing you need to remember is communication. Talk it out with her. If she wants it, try to give her what she wants. Even if you don't see it as easy, you may come up with a compromise. BUT, it is abuse and non-consentual control if she doesn't want it. That is not anything these forum members will see as SS&C.

 

[thickspear]

This

 

[WildRose40DDD]

Forgotten the original question?

I think we are all taking this too far. We have forgotten the original question. How he can help fulfill her fantasy?
I don't believe he is going to set a realistic scene with a stranger abduction to fulfill her fantasy, and I doubt she wants him too. What she wants is the pretend, the fantasy of the situation, within the safety of her relationship with him. Who are we to condemn this for not being a "true rape". He didn't say he really wanted to rape her or that she really wanted to be raped. Just that they wanted to experience the fantasy.
There are many ways to make the fantasy more realistic, and I would be happy to share some suggestions with him if he is even still reading this post.

 

[Marquis]

She show a lot of courage to post as she did.

Most definitely.

OTOH, I wonder at why you're surprised Marquis. People even have fantasy desires around torture, maiming or even murder, i.e., undergoing it.

In all honesty, I can't say I was too surprised that someone like that existed, I was more surprised that someone with that opinion came forward.

Besides, saying "SEE EVERYONE!! I TOLD YOU SOME PEOPLE REALLY DO WANT TO BE RAPED!!" doesn't exactly suit my style.

 

[hurtme]

see, i just don't get "playing rape" i have rape fanasies, and they are real...I need real, i can't RP in bed...i can't get into it, my rape fanasies involve the whole deal...although pehaps i am not so into the close fisted punches...but then again, when i actually was raped years ago, there wasn't so much violence, mostly cause i was so ill i couldn't move so i couldn't really resist...I had bruises and cuts afrerward, in the hospital, but i don't remember how they got there...

 

[Marquis]

see, i just don't get "playing rape" i have rape fanasies, and they are real...I need real, i can't RP in bed...i can't get into it, my rape fanasies involve the whole deal...although pehaps i am not so into the close fisted punches...but then again, when i actually was raped years ago, there wasn't so much violence, mostly cause i was so ill i couldn't move so i couldn't really resist...I had bruises and cuts afrerward, in the hospital, but i don't remember how they got there...

Damn, I really want to know what happened, but something tells me it would be horribly inappropriate to ask.

 

[Pure]

You're a gentleman... like the Marquis.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I am one of those really annoying people who will post without having read the entire thread- but I just have to say, "baby steps." Don't try to go from zero to sixty all at once. Ask her what one thing she would like you to do (toss her on the bed, call her a bitch, hold her wrists down or whatever and see if you can handle that, maybe you can find a comprimise.)

Here's one idea. blindfold her and then tell her in a soft voice, "just do what I say and I won't hurt you." Then continue to talk in a very reasonable way, directing her to do whatever might please you, but without namecalling or threats of violence or any type of brutality. This way, you don't have to do anything that makes you feel like a jerk, and she can use her imagination to fill in the rest of her 'rape fantasy'

Ok, I'll go read the thread now

so my girlfriend is always trying to get me to pretend rape her or be mean to her while we are having sex. I have gotten a little better about it, but it just feels so unnatural and so wrong when I do it. It is hard to really believe what I am doing and I am afraid to hurt her. Anyone else have experience with this and feel the same way. I'm sure it's just got to do with my upbringing, but I am really seeking a way to be more comfortable with this idea as it really turns her on. Let me know.

SD