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The Sewing Circle

Vail_Indigo said:
She was just amazing and does not get the credit she deserves.
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No she does not. I read a biography about her a few months ago but it was mediocre at best. It mostly discussed her acting career and touched on her discoveries. I haven't seen any decent biographies about her, and she truly deserves an epic story.
 
sally_sparrow said:
No she does not. I read a biography about her a few months ago but it was mediocre at best. It mostly discussed her acting career and touched on her discoveries. I haven't seen any decent biographies about her, and she truly deserves an epic story.
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I read her book long ago and far away, but I think she talked about some of the actresses with who she shared a bed. She didn't mention any names. I always wondered who was fortunate enough to have had sex with that beautiful woman.
 
I just discovered this thread and I love it. It's so ... yar. Easy to handle, quick to the helm, fast, right. Everything a thread should be!
 
She was funny.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/01bb04a8ca7969ec1013e42962b60e5d/tumblr_pn5kjjNwnX1y4b3c7o1_r1_1280.jpg

"Through it all, Tallulah Bankhead, left, remained superbly and publicly sexual, taking lovers of both genders, including Marlene Dietrich, Hattie McDaniel, and Alla Nazimova. She described herself as “ambisextrous” and was so open that she once said, publicly, ‘I’ve tried several varieties of sex. The conventional position makes me claustrophobic. And the others give me either stiff neck or lockjaw."
 
sally_sparrow said:
https://64.media.tumblr.com/0096187c154154dfc5c830a0a2a4561f/tumblr_nrapo41UO31u5q7jfo1_1280.jpg

“ Lesbian pulp fiction refers to any mid-20th century paperback novel (often conflated with pulp magazinefiction) with overtly lesbian themes and content. Lesbian pulp fiction was published in the 1950s and 60s by many of the same paperback publishing houses that other genres of fiction including Westerns, Romances, and Detective Fiction. Because very little other literature was available for and about lesbians at this time, quite often these books were the only reference people (lesbian and otherwise) had for modeling what lesbians were.

Stephanie Foote, from the University of Illinois commented on the importance of lesbian pulp novels to the lesbian identity prior to feminism: “Pulps have been understood as signs of a secret history of readers, and they have been valued because they have been read. The more they are read, the more they are valued, and the more they are read, the closer the relationship between the very act of circulation and reading and the construction of a lesbian community becomes…Characters use the reading of novels as a way to understand that they are not alone.”[1] Writer Donna Allegra explained why she purchased them in saying, “No matter how embarrassed and ashamed I felt when I went to the cash register to buy these books, it was absolutely necessary for me to have them. I needed them the way I needed food and shelter for survival.”

https://thejohnforest.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/qf_0730_forbidden_love.jpg
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I started a thread on Lesbian pulp fiction covers. https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1541324
 
How far did the pulps go?

Were they explicit? Did they go into detail on the sexual exploits or did they primarily detail the emotional aspects of the lesbian relationships?
 
Crios said:
Were they explicit? Did they go into detail on the sexual exploits or did they primarily detail the emotional aspects of the lesbian relationships?
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From what I've read, many of the lesbian pulp books were actually written by men... lesbians were not their target audience. These books were more pornographic than authentic. Those written by women were in the minority, and had more of a female following. Unfortunately they never really had a happy ending overall. They did however, bring lesbian readers together and feel less alone.

https://www.americanhistoryusa.com/lesbian-pulp-fiction-the-1950s-phenomenon/
 
sally_sparrow said:
From what I've read, many of the lesbian pulp books were actually written by men... lesbians were not their target audience. These books were more pornographic than authentic. Those written by women were in the minority, and had more of a female following. Unfortunately they never really had a happy ending overall. They did however, bring lesbian readers together and feel less alone.

https://www.americanhistoryusa.com/lesbian-pulp-fiction-the-1950s-phenomenon/
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That's a fascinating part of American, specifically LGBTQ, history that I wasn't aware of. Thank you for sharing!
 
Crios said:
Were they explicit? Did they go into detail on the sexual exploits or did they primarily detail the emotional aspects of the lesbian relationships?
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Lesbians are a constant source of fascination to men so as Sally points out, most publications are male written and male-centric. I'd like to think the good lesbian stuff was more emo but lets not be coy either!:)
 
stickygirl said:
Lesbians are a constant source of fascination to men so as Sally points out, most publications are male written and male-centric. I'd like to think the good lesbian stuff was more emo but lets not be coy either!:)
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This may confirm your hypothesis:)

"Lesbianism was such a popular theme for pulp, one writer explained to the New York Times in September 1965, because the reader "gets two immoral women for the price of one." For many readers, this may have been the case—certainly, a significant portion of the books were as homophobic as their covers. Set in women's dorm rooms or prisons, a significant portion are seamy "true accounts," written by men with women's pseudonyms, and marketed as cheap thrills to male readers.

But perhaps 50 titles were written by women, for women. The scholar Yvonne Keller calls these "pro-lesbian," as opposed to the more common "virile adventure." The pro-lesbian novels are the ones that changed women's lives, and in so doing, passed the test of time—the books of Marijane Meaker, Valerie Taylor, Artemis Smith, and Ann Bannon. These authors wrote for women, and it showed."

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/lesbian-pulp-fiction-ann-bannon
 
sally_sparrow said:
This may confirm your hypothesis:)

"Lesbianism was such a popular theme for pulp, one writer explained to the New York Times in September 1965, because the reader "gets two immoral women for the price of one." For many readers, this may have been the case—certainly, a significant portion of the books were as homophobic as their covers. Set in women's dorm rooms or prisons, a significant portion are seamy "true accounts," written by men with women's pseudonyms, and marketed as cheap thrills to male readers.

But perhaps 50 titles were written by women, for women. The scholar Yvonne Keller calls these "pro-lesbian," as opposed to the more common "virile adventure." The pro-lesbian novels are the ones that changed women's lives, and in so doing, passed the test of time—the books of Marijane Meaker, Valerie Taylor, Artemis Smith, and Ann Bannon. These authors wrote for women, and it showed."



https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/lesbian-pulp-fiction-ann-bannon
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Oh that's a great article and puts so much into the context of the times: the fifties were seriously fucked up. "Society's greatest curse:homosexuality" being chosen as a tag line on a book cover is just breath-taking, but there are still people around who believe it. The apparent code for men writing lesbian novels was that they had to be saved by a good man or die miserably :rolleyes:.

ETA It occurred to me that the advice Jo March had from her publisher was to make sure her female lead ended up either dead or married... plus ca change. Commodities .. oops rant :mad::D

I think I'd like to hunt out an Artemis or Bannon book for my education! I was reminded too of the discussions I had about the female gaze following the release of 'A young woman on Fire'. I lent a copy of the film to a friend in January and she hasn't spoken to me since ( nor returned the DVD ) ... maybe the film caused offence, which is a shame; maybe she thought I was hitting on her? *shrugs* people, huh?
 
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sally_sparrow said:
This may confirm your hypothesis:)

"Lesbianism was such a popular theme for pulp, one writer explained to the New York Times in September 1965, because the reader "gets two immoral women for the price of one." For many readers, this may have been the case—certainly, a significant portion of the books were as homophobic as their covers. Set in women's dorm rooms or prisons, a significant portion are seamy "true accounts," written by men with women's pseudonyms, and marketed as cheap thrills to male readers.

But perhaps 50 titles were written by women, for women. The scholar Yvonne Keller calls these "pro-lesbian," as opposed to the more common "virile adventure." The pro-lesbian novels are the ones that changed women's lives, and in so doing, passed the test of time—the books of Marijane Meaker, Valerie Taylor, Artemis Smith, and Ann Bannon. These authors wrote for women, and it showed."

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/lesbian-pulp-fiction-ann-bannon
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The lesbian seductress was almost always evil and debauched, seducing innocent young women for their sick pleasures. Fortunately (sic) a man's man rescued them. That was the usual mainstream theme. Not so with others, particularly with Ann Bannon, who I am most familiar with. Here is a great interview of Ms. Bannon. Her story is incredibly interesting.

http://lastbohemians.blogspot.com/2020/07/ann-bannon-on-beebo-brinker-and-her.html
 
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Jerseyshore said:
The lesbian seductress was almost always evil and debauched, seducing innocent young women for their sick pleasures. Fortunately (sic) a man's man rescued them. That was the usual mainstream theme. Not so with others, particularly with Ann Bannon, who I am most familiar with. Here is a great interview of Ms. Bannon. Her story is incredibly interesting.

http://lastbohemians.blogspot.com/2020/07/ann-bannon-on-beebo-brinker-and-her.html
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Thank you for sharing. This was a great read. She seems like a very lovely woman.
 
I remember reading some lesbian-themed pulp novels back in the day. I don't remember much about them but I'm going to assume they were written by men since they were arousing. I think that back in the 50s, 60s if a female submitted a script it would include way too much romance to entice the male reader, target audience.
 
https://64.media.tumblr.com/83ad5325bd3e182bb939468d9cb44d21/2b44be5ee7b820e8-f0/s500x750/017df5a2b6e8cd74cc2bba4b8c32db30458e5803.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/3530ba3dc664f8e84d998aa52b04b541/2b44be5ee7b820e8-49/s640x960/33836a40d3d7883734a4114ff57adafae3e6accf.jpg
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41JfK-RvcbL._AC_SY580_.jpg
https://assets.cdn.moviepilot.de/files/e740aa01e7d21cbd7afc307e581b77bd69418a209a340a656446aadc5598/fill/390/234/lesbian-vampire-killers.jpg

"Stereotypical images, like all aspects of culture, change and evolve over the years. Queer women in classical Hollywood films often appeared as spinster aunts or prison matrons, but by the 1970s, they were often being represented as vampires, a trope that turned same-sex love and affection into something cruel and monstrous. By the twenty-first century, a wide variety of openly queer people and queer "looks" has made it more difficult for the mass media to create new stereotypes, but traces of the old ones can still be discerned."

-From Queer Images: A History of Gay and Lesbian Film in America by Griffin Benshoff

*Images are from Arsenic and Old Lace (1943), Caged (1950), The Vampire Lovers (1970), and Vampire Killers (2009)
 
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7f6e6a2223c768c57eeaee20c571a3ff/3d6ad01d48a31d34-06/s1280x1920/f750ecb8f4bc6f0399fc2125bc65b87419ec6694.jpg
"According to Hollywood historians, actress Barbara Stanwyck wasn't only a diva of gay culture, but a hero too—a real-life lesbian who also played one in the movies (Walk on the Wild Side) and probably had flings with Joan Crawford and Marlene Dietrich. Like many Cancers, Stanwyck fiercely gaurded her privacy and vulnerability. 'She talks a tough game,' said a family insider, 'but...she isn't so cocksure like she always pretends. But it was a very hard shell she built.' On TV she played the stereotypical Cancer-type of matriarch in The Big Valley."

-Excerpt from Gay Stars The Ultimate Gay Guy's Guide to Astrology by Matthew Abergel
 
I stumbled across this article about Barbara Stanwyck's performance in Babyface. I've never seen it, but it's now at the top of my queue.

https://medium.com/@MarriedAtTheMovies/the-sexiest-classic-movie-youve-never-seen-aa81afbc2b96
_____

Barbara Stanwyck was bisexual, and known as "Hollywood’s most well-known closeted lesbian…that everybody knew.” Clifton Webb called her his ‘favorite Hollywood lesbian '.

In the late 1920s, she taught dance at a gay and lesbian New York speakeasy owned by Texas Guinan and was ensconced in the city’s lesbian crowd with Tallulah Bankhead, Marjorie Main, and Blythe Daly.

-From Hollywood Death and Scandal Sites: Seventeen Driving Tours with Directions*by E.J. Fleming
 
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