The State of American Education.

[Chobham]

Test scores are mis-leading. Most of the developed world throws their dumb kids out of school, while the US mainstreams theirs.

That is partly true. The Chinese administer IQ tests and the low scoring kids are diverted to 'trade' schools.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

We should do more of that beginning with High School. The dumber kids only retard the ones equipped for the rigors of academic advancement. If we would stop pretending, take the blinders off and discard the rose-colored granny glasses and just acknowledge that life's abilities are on a bell curve and not a level playing field then we would by far and above be the paragon of nations.

Liberty and Meritocracy

 

[icanhelp1]

We should do more of that beginning with High School. The dumber kids only retard the ones equipped for the rigors of academic advancement. If we would stop pretending, take the blinders off and discard the rose-colored granny glasses and just acknowledge that life's abilities are on a bell curve and not a level playing field then we would by far and above be the paragon of nations.

Liberty and Meritocracy

NY spends $30,000 per student, how much actually goes to students and how much goes to feed the bureaucracy, teachers unions? How much is waste, like you say, maintain equity at all cost. Education isn’t a level playing field, not all students are equal, not all students are college material.

Plumbers can make a nice living.

 

[ll74]

That too has been tried in some districts, with limited or no success.

The entire notion of throwing more money at a problem and getting better results seems to be a uniquely US psychopathy. Both Japan and S. Korea spend significantly less per student ($8,300 and 6,723 per student respectively) than the US with far greater results. And before you make some silly statement the cost of living neither nation are significantly cheaper than the US. There is also the issue of where the money is spent. If those monies are primarily funneled to teachers that are already failing the students then what's the point? Money is the simplistic answer but it's not THE answer, or even the correct answer.

It's not about more money thrown at a problem - it's about additional resources to provide more support for failing students. Giving more money for success is a capitalism idea. As many teachers will tell you, the students who need more attention and time aren't receiving the resources they need because the money is in districts that have successful students who waste the money.

You keep blaming teachers as being corrupt rich people. If that's your bias, you'll never have a solution because you demonize those who are tasked with doing most of the work to solve the problem.

 

[ll74]

We should do more of that beginning with High School. The dumber kids only retard the ones equipped for the rigors of academic advancement. If we would stop pretending, take the blinders off and discard the rose-colored granny glasses and just acknowledge that life's abilities are on a bell curve and not a level playing field then we would by far and above be the paragon of nations.

What the fuck is this about? That is the dumbest take I've ever heard....and that says a lot

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Really? Provide a reputable link.

It’s your claim, YOU need to provide a reputable link.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Now assure us that Chinese educational superiority comes from outspending us (US).

Perhaps money is not the issue, but rather a culture corrupted by the failed ideas of the "enlightened" 70s.

You may be shocked to find out that South Korea and Japan and entirely different countries than China.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

I am not shocked that you failed to understand the salient point.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I am not shocked that you failed to understand the salient point.

You didn’t make one.

 

[Chobham]

It’s your claim, YOU need to provide a reputable link.

OK Sparky, here's a more recent survey.

Spending per child

 

[VinnyVeritas]

OK Sparky, here's a more recent survey.

Spending per child

So, that eliminates money as a root cause.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

What the fuck is this about? That is the dumbest take I've ever heard....and that says a lot

What happens when a teacher teaches to the top of the class and grades accordingly compared to a product of the Governmental-Educational Complex which teaches to the bottom of the class. Does that truly make our students competitive in the world marketplace?

Is your contention that all children learn the same material at the same rate?

Is teaching to leave no child behind the most efficacious methodology?

(Please do not strive to sound as dumb as a Bush.)

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

OK Sparky, here's a more recent survey.

Spending per child

That doesn’t show what you think it shows.
Would you care to try again?

 

[ll74]

What happens when a teacher teaches to the top of the class and grades accordingly compared to a product of the Governmental-Educational Complex which teaches to the bottom of the class. Does that truly make our students competitive in the world marketplace?

Is your contention that all children learn the same material at the same rate?

Is teaching to leave no child behind the most efficacious methodology?

(Please do not strive to sound as dumb as a Bush.)

Doubling down is fun.

You're literally blaming children for the problem.

That's even dumber than blaming teachers.

You also don't understand changes within the education system to address bottlenecks as you mention here. The schools with more resources have more ability to separate based on learning speeds and styles to more teachers who can adequately address those children.

Which is why schools with more money do better.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

That doesn’t show what you think it shows.
Would you care to try again?

Tell us why Mr. Analyst.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

So, that eliminates money as a root cause.

It conclusively shows money is the problem. Japan spends more than the US on education and gets better results.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

Doubling down is fun.

You're literally blaming children for the problem.

That's even dumber than blaming teachers.

Am I? How so? By simply stating that intelligent and abilities are not endowed by our creator(s) on an equitable basis? Is it not true that every human is unique in their abilities and that includes intelligence and ability towards academic achievement/endeavors?

If so, who's the dummy now?

 

[VinnyVeritas]

It conclusively shows money is the problem. Japan spends more than the US on education and gets better results.

Again, patiently, is that a CULTURAL difference and not a SPENDING difference?

 

[Chobham]

That doesn’t show what you think it shows.
Would you care to try again?

You mean it doesn't show what you want it to show.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Tell us why Mr. Analyst.

You must be new to the board, but I’ve been over this several times.

The US price includes healthcare, the Japan cost does not.
The US price includes transportation, the Japan cost does not.
The US price includes the redesign of schools because of guns. Japan does not.

When Ish finally posts and apples to apples comparison Japan spends more on education.

 

[ll74]

Am I? How so? By simply stating that intelligent and abilities are not endowed by our creator(s) on an equitable basis? Is it not true that every human is unique in their abilities and that includes intelligence and ability towards academic achievement/endeavors?

I actually got cut off and added to my post above. (Reposting here)

You also don't understand changes within the education system to address bottlenecks as you mention here. The schools with more resources have more ability to separate based on learning speeds and styles to more teachers who can adequately address those children.

Which is why schools with more money do better.

If so, who's the dummy now?

You are

 

[VinnyVeritas]

I cannot be expected to reply to that which was not there dumbass...

Posting an "edit" does not change one whit that which you actually posted and that I responded to.

Believing otherwise makes you the dummy.

 

[ll74]

I cannot be expected to reply to that which was not there dumbass...

Posting an "edit" does not change one whit that which you actually posted and that I responded to.

Believing otherwise makes you the dummy.

That's why I mentioned and provided the quoted text.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

As hominem, the final retreat of the terminally ignorant.

*chuckles* Like I give a shit what an asshole like you thinks?

Facts:

Blacks and Latino's are doing horribly in the US school system. No one even tries to pretend otherwise.

Then perhaps the problem should be addressed. blaming a person's race, or family status ain't gonna solve it.

Blacks and Latinos commit felonies, and not just drug possession/trafficking, far out of proportion to their population representation.

NO they get charged more, that's the problem. A white guy gets off, either from the charge itself, or a much shorter prison sentence. Then you bring in the socioeconomic problems, such as and not limited too: no one will hire a POC due to your type of thinking, which is prevalent in your society. You need a course in CRT, but then again your prejudice probably would shield your mind anyhow from learning. A brick wall would absorb more information on it than you!

Blacks and Latinos have a much higher percentage of 'out of wedlock' children.

So fucking what? Newton was born out of wedlock, being married is a religious thing, and means fuck all, no matter how much you yell at the lawn about it.

Discussion:

JE attributes those differences to genetics while I postulate that it is cultural.

Well you're closer, but it's not cultural, it's systemic racism, but you've heard and denied that numerous times, which is why you're in the top four Racists here on Lit (IMHO).

JE has linked research that tends to support his conclusions

No JE has linked disproved and retracted information, or information compiled by people with no educational experience in the field which they claim expertise...and you buy that up like rancid red meat!!

and I can do the same for my stance.

Bullshit, you try and fail daily on this...*chuckles*

Any discussion as to the primary causal reason for those differences is just that, a discussion.

Only to Racist assholes like yourself...you should hurry up and join or even beat John on the race to eternity...

We have a set of inarguable facts in search of an explanation and then we have morons like you who assert that any discussion on the subject is 'racist.'

Moron?? You wouldn't know a moron if you saw one. My proof,you fail to see one every time you look in a mirror!!

Fuck off back to Wat's thread, and take JE with you!

 

[Chobham]

You are an ignorant SFB Fuzzy. You're spouting propaganda, not facts. I'm done with you.