The Trouble with Labels...

[catalina_francisco]

You are all very correct, and I am not certain why I got so defensive. I suppose I am just frusterated in general, because I sometimes look back at posts I have composed, and conversations I have tried to have with people, and I think I am far too intense for this world. No one seems to understand why I have this need to anal-ize things to death.

I love boards like this, because it offers me a chance to learn about the physical attributes of BDSM/kink, and I sincerely do appeciate threads about intricate rope bondage and the latest popular toy, but I also have to admit that my personal interests are driven more towards the psychological aspects.

There are many of us who love to analyse, so you are not alone....so no need to apologise as many here enjoy excercising the brain cells in new and not so new directions. It is not a negative trait, and in fact if I hadn't been able to analyse there is no way I would ever have achieved much in life at all, nor likely would I have survived. For me, I can do 1,000 actions, but without the analysis of life, my life and reality, and thinking continuously about many things which take place in this world and why, I would not be a very interesting or evolving person IMHO, and certainly would never have caught the attention of the one who owns me and holds my mind to be one of his most valueable assets. Add to that, I don't see why there is always this battle with many to feel that doing is better than thinking, or vv, and that the 2 qualities cannot co-exist within a person. I know for me I am always doing, but I am also always thinking, the two things combined helping me to grow as a person and a slave.

As to the idea we struggle to define ourselves by and within a label as has been suggested (not by you), and that the label rules the behaviour we do or do not adopt....that to me maybe true for some, but usually not for those who do spend a lot of time analysing as they realise who they are and what they want to do and do not limit their experience by what someone else says. I also think most find where they fit long before they find the label that describes that preferred role....how often do we read on this forum alone, 'I was always a PYL/pyl but never realised there was a name for it'? That is not acting to fit the label but discovering the label which fits you...and in that label is a variety of mixes and activities which are adapted to the persons involved.

True, many will look at the label, compare their own reality to others who share that same label, but over time and experience most realise that one size does not fit all and there is room for individuality and interpretation within that role descriptor. I actually enjoy the continual challenge and struggle to be the slave I am and hope to become....not because I am trying to fit a preset ideal of what a slave is, but because it is what my Master wants, and because I chose to be a 24/7 TPE slave without limits simply because I wanted and needed the bigggest challenge I could find and it is who I feel I am in my heart, not because I feel limited by the community's expectations. The diversity I live has allowed me to give up all limits and rights and live completely in his control according to his wishes, experiment with topping at his instigation, continue to be a mother and grandmother, an artist and writer, and a counsellor when required, as well as a myriad of other duties, talents, and qualities. The label does not limit me or my experiences, but allows me to extend myself to unlimited possibilities without being lost in the maze of possibilities. I am a slave even when weilding a whip or flogger (or other painful implements of pleasure) on a willing masochist for his purposes, I do have an opinion and a mind, I am available for him 24/7 without exception, I do love being an extreme masochist and pervert, I do have interests in life which he encourages me to continue, but I am his tool in all ways as defined by what he chooses me to be, not by the label, though it briefly and vaguely describes who I am as Miss Taken says.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't care what you call yourself. I still have a desire to lick you right on your naughty bits!

And to go to the Rijksmuseum.

LOL, well the first one you would have to ask Masterful One about......the second, a definitately great way to lose yourself in time and beauty.

Catalina

 

[incubus'_sub]

Hi Catalina. I do agree which much of your post but I don't feel there's any evidence of a battle between the thinkers & the doers. I'm fairly confident in thinking that most of us are thinkers and probably private navel gazers too.

That said, I do think that if some of the posts are anything to go by, that some have been so caught up in the why and become so worried about the significance of their desires that they ignore / stall/ eventually choose not to "do" at all, or remain locked in the virtual world.

It seems to me a great shame that some may never allow themselves to be as comfortable with themselves as you or I or Netzach and so miss out on the real pleasures & fulfillment that can be found in the real world.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hi Catalina. I do agree which much of your post but I don't feel there's any evidence of a battle between the thinkers & the doers. I'm fairly confident in thinking that most of us are thinkers and probably private navel gazers too.

That said, I do think that if some of the posts are anything to go by, that some have been so caught up in the why and become so worried about the significance of their desires that they ignore / stall/ eventually choose not to "do" at all, or remain locked in the virtual world.

It seems to me a great shame that some may never allow themselves to be as comfortable with themselves as you or I or Netzach and so miss out on the real pleasures & fulfillment that can be found in the real world.

So true....it does seem to be common though, especially amongst newer members to the community. In the instance of a sub/slave who is in a relationship, though there is a degree of self awareness necessary, I also feel for those who are becoming obsessed and depressed over the comparisons they make between themselves and others, it is partly the responsibility of the Dominant to notice and check this behaviour before it goes too far and becomes a major problem. Often the desire to please can over ride the ability to keep things in perspective.

Catalina

 

[incubus'_sub]

Yes, you are right, but not all are lucky enough to have experienced Masters like you & I. Maybe age helps too, the experience of life with it's ups & downs over the years tends to prevent every little emotion from being blown out of proportion & allows a level of comfort in one's own skin.

 

[pandoravampire]

acting to fit the label: not necessarily a bad idea. i ploughed through posts on various behaviours, first looking what the hell that was? up, then usually followed by going to the stories to search for one that gave the first person perspective, then armed with both, going and trying it for myself. Is that not acting to fit a label? I prefer to view it as recipe hunting, like cooks do.

Labels for me searching for a partner (come on god, sort it out!) have been handy. It gives me a hint as to how the land lies. I was also very aware that i didnt have a label, i didnt fit a label. The nearest i could find is switch, but thats so not correct. But it does tell any potential partner that im not sub/slave material doesnt it. But although i can thoroughly enjoy both sides of this coin, i cant change how i am on the night, i know beforehand what 'mood' im in, it doesnt change or switch during the sex.

What label i am is defined by whom im with. What mood im in, what needs i have at that time.

As a child, id join up with whatever till i got the uniform then lose interest. (not a lot of change there then!) Getting the uniform, spouting some crap about the girl guide law, its all about conformity, a trait that does not stop as a adult. Plus acceptance.

Having a label that fits your sexual preference is a validation of that sexuality.

So, ill just sit on the fence, labels = good / bad thing.

 

[sincerely_helene]

Hi Catalina. I do agree which much of your post but I don't feel there's any evidence of a battle between the thinkers & the doers. I'm fairly confident in thinking that most of us are thinkers and probably private navel gazers too.

That said, I do think that if some of the posts are anything to go by, that some have been so caught up in the why and become so worried about the significance of their desires that they ignore / stall/ eventually choose not to "do" at all, or remain locked in the virtual world.

It seems to me a great shame that some may never allow themselves to be as comfortable with themselves as you or I or Netzach and so miss out on the real pleasures & fulfillment that can be found in the real world.

Of course, I really won't be so paranoid as to assume you are refering to myself with that last bit, (being as we don't know each other ), but I do feel the natural instinct to defend those others you spoke of. No offense, but a few of the comments you have made with this and previous other posts come off as glareingly condesending.

I started this thread for for the purposes of feedback pertaining to labels and peoples thoughts on them, and I think to this point I have been very patient with regards to certain remarks being made that were more than a little snide and irelevant.

Some of us ponder the why's of life simply because we find the human mind more stimulating than any physical act, not necessarily because we are too uncomfortable with ourselves to experiance anything beyond that in the real world. I found that assumption to be rather close minded.

No hard feelings, I hope, but I did feel it needed saying.

 

[Netzach]

well this is pretty circular, I was agreeing with the initial assertion and now I'm glibly mowing people down in debate.

I'm just bringing up the idea that, yes, our community can get a bit obsessive about classifying ourselves and each other. And I know few people in it who have not felt the sting of some of the insult of having other people come in and tell you what you are based on what they see you doing or want you to be or think you might be or might be projecting onto you via their OWN desires.

I consider the obsessive categorizing and re-categorizing kind of a bummer.

Yes, it's useful to be able to know if you're talking to a Top or a bottom, and frankly those are good enough anc catch-all enough terms for me. I can figure out if the bottom is also a slave fairly quickly with a simple conversation or query, not because they are being held to some ultra-submissive standard of behavior or wearing a special button.

Categorization can sometimes prevent people from entering into necessary dialogue, when it becomes too much of a shorthand and too much is assumed.

Besides, we can't agree on some serious definitions anyway for a lot of terminology. Some argue, as an example that good slaves exhibit submissive and passive personalities, and others argue that their idea of a good slave DOES NOT exhibit those traits, really we're not talking about labels like "that is a coffee mug, that is a shoelace"

I think if people put this kind of reflection into "what do I like, what makes me happy" rather than "how do I explain myself" maybe that's more the issue.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Hi Helene. No, I wasn't referring to you at all and if you read my earlier post about the importance of the mind you will see that I agree with you there.

I was actually rather more surprised to find myself agreeing with Catalina's post which hasn't been a particularly common thing until recently & was thinking about that, not you.

Condescending & close minded no, sad perhaps because life has taught me that worrying the life out of every possible consequence of any action tends to result in the passing of the opportunity to act at all.

 

[sincerely_helene]

Hi Helene. No, I wasn't referring to you at all and if you read my earlier post about the importance of the mind you will see that I agree with you there.

I was actually rather more surprised to find myself agreeing with Catalina's post which hasn't been a particularly common thing until recently & was thinking about that, not you.

Condescending & close minded no, sad perhaps because life has taught me that worrying the life out of every possible consequence of any action tends to result in the passing of the opportunity to act at all.

I do see and agree with your point when it is put that way. I also appreciate that you didn't take offense to my observation, because I was concerned that perhaps I came off harsher than intended. I should have also added that I did enjoy reading alot of the other things you have had to say in this thread.

I'm pretty certain that a great majority of what Netzach and you have spoken of are actully in agreement with my own thoughts, but sometimes presentation makes all the difference in how people will react to the things you say.

Like I said, I hope there are no hard feelings. I really don't post on the BDSM section enough that I should already have enemies.

 

[incubus'_sub]

 

[catalina_francisco]

I was actually rather more surprised to find myself agreeing with Catalina's post which hasn't been a particularly common thing until recently & was thinking about that, not you.

See this is just one of those things I like about life and the forum...it's flexibility and little surprises when we least expect them.

Catalina

 

[incubus'_sub]

LOL, funny isn't it.