the use of safe words

[JMohegan]

I am heading out for the holiday, but want to say one more thing on this subject before I go.

I definitely understand, right wrong or indifferent, that people are reluctant to use them, so they're one tool in a lot that I use to try and increase the safety level of my play.

That's pretty much my attitude, too.

My M.O. could be summarized as: Obey the safeword if you hear it, but always behave as if the safeword system is not in place.

This does not alter her responsibility to speak up when she feels it is necessary. It is simply my recognition of the inescapable fact that feelings and judgment are sometimes messy and imperfect. Both hers, and mine too.



Happy 4th to those who celebrate.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yes, exactly. This is how it works for Ma'am and I as well. I know her well enough to know what kind of harm she intends. I'm hurting and crying and sobbing and really cannot take anymore, but too bad, that's what she intends. She wants me to suffer.

I'm hurting bad and feel like if we keep going, my arm is going to pull out of my socket and I'll be out of work for a month and be unable to do chores for her to boot.

Not her kink.

So we are not that different except in the way we approach this whole thing. I don't have a safeword so it is rather moot, but I also can respect everyone does it different and doesn't necessarily mean one is more right than the other. For us, in the beginning we were at much the same spot you speak of being at now, but over time we have moved into more edge in that what once he would have expected me to mention and would have meant he stopped immediately, doesn't have that same line anymore.

It may also be a lot of mindfuck on his part, but then there have been instances which make me wonder if it is a bit more real than that. Either way, when he tells me he is not in the mood to be nice and stop to possibly prevent something happening which may make my serving him a little more difficult over the following days/weeks, I tend to believe he is speaking the truth. There have been times when it has happened that I have had to serve him while nursing injuries that make the pain constant and movement slow, but it is doable.

Catalina

 

[serijules]

It matters because she may take her responsibility very seriously.... but still make an error in judgment.

If she wouldn't put unnecessary pressure on herself in the first place and make assumptions about disappointment that isn't hers to make, it wouldn't have to be so complicated. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, people make mistakes and things go wrong...you don't even need to bring that fact into the discussion really, it's a given in ANY situation.

 

[catalina_francisco]

If she wouldn't put unnecessary pressure on herself in the first place and make assumptions about disappointment that isn't hers to make, it wouldn't have to be so complicated. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, people make mistakes and things go wrong...you don't even need to bring that fact into the discussion really, it's a given in ANY situation.

We have to agree to disagree....you see it as making assumptions, my experience has been it is no assumption, it is often the reality. I guess the way I look at it in terms of assumption/versus real disappointment is that he would not be doing what he was doing if he didn't have a strong desire to do it....he just is not into doing something he is not interested in just for the sake of doing it (not to mention he doesn't have a lot of time and energy to spend on things that don't ignite his flame), so to have to stop it would naturally be disappointing to him, and I. Would that stop me using a safeword if it were absolutely, without a doubt necessary? No, but it sure as heck is going to make me think twice before rushing into using it and feeling like the perfect sub for doing so.

Catalina

 

[the captians wench]

If she wouldn't put unnecessary pressure on herself in the first place and make assumptions about disappointment that isn't hers to make, it wouldn't have to be so complicated. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, people make mistakes and things go wrong...you don't even need to bring that fact into the discussion really, it's a given in ANY situation.

so you're in the moment and your PYL is having a grand old time wailing on you with a brand new beaded flogger you so happily made them. Each swing builds in intencity, every fall brings a new sting to your body. You're now at the point when things are getting uncomfortable...do you red out?

You push on and the beat of the flogger speads up. Your body throbs and you can feel the heat of the red glow on your back side...time to speak up?

You hear his delight, feel his delight his pleasure in the air, it's almost a perfume, so you continue on. You know how proud he is of you at that moment, you know he's getting what he needs in this moment, and in pleasing him you are getting what you need. The swings still continue to build, harder blows landing each time. Your body is now starting to shake and you're not sure if you can take more. You can feel yourself start to bruse. You feel the tears whell in you eyes. Is it time, do you speak now, knowing how much he is enjoying himself? It is imposible to excape the thought that if you say something at this point there will be disapointment on his part. Maybe not in you particularly, but in the fact that he could not continue.

You press on just that bit more, not wanting to disrupt his pleasure, not knowing how much more your body can take, clutching at the molding around the doorway you are pearched in. Your screams fill the room, your body feels like it's on fire, and shakes with so much force you feel like you will colapse.....For me this is the point where he stops. It's the point where I start strongly thinking about safewording out. When I did use yellow before, it was way before this point. This is a point I longed to get to, I wanted to get to, but I was afraid of being taken to that point.

If the thought of disapointing him wasn't in my mind I would not have ever gotten to the points I have, and that would disapoint me. Yes I push myself, but I have enough trust in him that I feel safe in doing so. I don't play with people I don't trust, period. I have strong bonds with those I play with, I don't play with just anyone. They know me very well, know my desires and limitations.

Would using my safeword at any point disapoint him? Yes, of course it would, unless that was his goal in the first place. But I understand why and it has very little to do with my ability to serve him, and every thing to do with his pleasure. My playmate is very very much a sadist, I know he would love to take things beyond what anyone could take. I also know that me not being able to go that far is not what disapoints him. But none the less I have disapointed him in some way, and that sadens me. Does he worry about me being upset? Not in the slightest. If I'm upset because I feel like I've disapointed him, then we are in the direction he wants to go. I should be upset, I did disapoint him, I stoped his fun. But he's not angry with me, and I won't be punished, infact i get to hold his leg and be petted as long as it takes to calm me down.

This is the end of our scene. He praises me for serving him well, and I get over the fact that I didn't go as far as he would like and work hard to go just that much further next time. With out that since of disapointment, I wouldn't work harder to go further, and there for would not grow, and our time together would be a waste.

 

[Andraste]

i wouldn't hesitate to use it if i thought i was at risk of physical damage.
emotional damage...i find it hard to admit that i'm hurting until it's too late...and then i'm beyond being able to use it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

so you're in the moment and your PYL is having a grand old time wailing on you with a brand new beaded flogger you so happily made them. Each swing builds in intencity, every fall brings a new sting to your body. You're now at the point when things are getting uncomfortable...do you red out?

You push on and the beat of the flogger speads up. Your body throbs and you can feel the heat of the red glow on your back side...time to speak up?

You hear his delight, feel his delight his pleasure in the air, it's almost a perfume, so you continue on. You know how proud he is of you at that moment, you know he's getting what he needs in this moment, and in pleasing him you are getting what you need. The swings still continue to build, harder blows landing each time. Your body is now starting to shake and you're not sure if you can take more. You can feel yourself start to bruse. You feel the tears whell in you eyes. Is it time, do you speak now, knowing how much he is enjoying himself? It is imposible to excape the thought that if you say something at this point there will be disapointment on his part. Maybe not in you particularly, but in the fact that he could not continue.

You press on just that bit more, not wanting to disrupt his pleasure, not knowing how much more your body can take, clutching at the molding around the doorway you are pearched in. Your screams fill the room, your body feels like it's on fire, and shakes with so much force you feel like you will colapse.....For me this is the point where he stops. It's the point where I start strongly thinking about safewording out. When I did use yellow before, it was way before this point. This is a point I longed to get to, I wanted to get to, but I was afraid of being taken to that point.

If the thought of disapointing him wasn't in my mind I would not have ever gotten to the points I have, and that would disapoint me. Yes I push myself, but I have enough trust in him that I feel safe in doing so. I don't play with people I don't trust, period. I have strong bonds with those I play with, I don't play with just anyone. They know me very well, know my desires and limitations.

Would using my safeword at any point disapoint him? Yes, of course it would, unless that was his goal in the first place. But I understand why and it has very little to do with my ability to serve him, and every thing to do with his pleasure. My playmate is very very much a sadist, I know he would love to take things beyond what anyone could take. I also know that me not being able to go that far is not what disapoints him. But none the less I have disapointed him in some way, and that sadens me. Does he worry about me being upset? Not in the slightest. If I'm upset because I feel like I've disapointed him, then we are in the direction he wants to go. I should be upset, I did disapoint him, I stoped his fun. But he's not angry with me, and I won't be punished, infact i get to hold his leg and be petted as long as it takes to calm me down.

This is the end of our scene. He praises me for serving him well, and I get over the fact that I didn't go as far as he would like and work hard to go just that much further next time. With out that since of disapointment, I wouldn't work harder to go further, and there for would not grow, and our time together would be a waste.

Perfectly painted picture...this is so much how we are.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

It matters because she may take her responsibility very seriously.... but still make an error in judgment.

As an athlete who frequently likes to push himself hard, I have made similar errors and been hobbled or otherwise incapacitated for days or, occasionally, longer. Did I want this to happen? Of course not.

I'm sure you aren't alone when it comes to the physical.

But what about this sort of thing?

I stand by what I stood by then. I'm glad I got to feel what "too far" was for me. I don't think it's always to be avoided at any cost. I'm saying one normally knows it when they get there, I don't think that thread disproves that actually, rather backs it up.

 

[Netzach]

Alternate scenario:

You are happily zoning in my ropes, while I whale away on your feet with a cane.

All of a sudden you feel the the unmistakeable blinding pain in your hip that says you are experiencing the kind of nerve damage which means you may never be able to feel anything on that thigh again.

Gonna soldier on?

Or, you're suspended, but the knot on your sternum is pushing hard. It feels like your breathing is shallower, and you think you may be headed for panic city.

Gonna push along or maybe God forbid ask me to move the knot a half inch?

When I'm talking about damage in ways unintended these are the scenarios I mean, not putting a bruise somewhere public or burning someone I mean to burn with something.

 

[the captians wench]

Alternate scenario:

You are happily zoning in my ropes, while I whale away on your feet with a cane.

All of a sudden you feel the the unmistakeable blinding pain in your hip that says you are experiencing the kind of nerve damage which means you may never be able to feel anything on that thigh again.

Gonna soldier on?

Or, you're suspended, but the knot on your sternum is pushing hard. It feels like your breathing is shallower, and you think you may be headed for panic city.

Gonna push along or maybe God forbid ask me to move the knot a half inch?

When I'm talking about damage in ways unintended these are the scenarios I mean, not putting a bruise somewhere public or burning someone I mean to burn with something.

Maybe I just look at it differently than I used to. In these situations, I wouldn't safeword but rather I would say "Master? something's wrong". If I safeword it means that I was beyond the something's not right stage and on to "holly fuck the sky is falling" realm of things. but then I'm very obvious about how I'm feeling. I don't hardly make a sound, unless you are pushing me to my limits, and then the sounds change, my shakes change, my breathing changes, my eyes get that pannic look, and I start squirming. If i start showing these signs, he knows he's getting to the end of things, or if i show one or more of them when he didn't expect it than something's wrong.

Of course I'm not going to let myself be in dangered by not speaking up when things go bad. But with out the fear of disapointing him and ending his pleasure early, then I wouldn't press on at all, I'd just safeword when I felt I was done and fuck what he wants. Now if I didn't speak up and something did go wrong then he would be disapointed that I didn't say anything. This too is a fear that moniters when I safeword and when I don't.

 

[serijules]

We have to agree to disagree....you see it as making assumptions, my experience has been it is no assumption, it is often the reality. I guess the way I look at it in terms of assumption/versus real disappointment is that he would not be doing what he was doing if he didn't have a strong desire to do it....he just is not into doing something he is not interested in just for the sake of doing it (not to mention he doesn't have a lot of time and energy to spend on things that don't ignite his flame), so to have to stop it would naturally be disappointing to him, and I. Would that stop me using a safeword if it were absolutely, without a doubt necessary? No, but it sure as heck is going to make me think twice before rushing into using it and feeling like the perfect sub for doing so.

Catalina

I can't agree to disagree because I don't disagree with you, you are just not reading what I'm saying very well and making your own assumptions into my words. I never endorsed rushing to use the safeword...hell, I've never used one and never had one with Ma'am.

I understand not wanting to disappoint, but cat, not everyone plays at this extreme level that you do where broken bones and whatnot are "ok", so when you endorse things based solely on YOUR level, you really are not handing out very sound advice because that level you play on is rare and to most, extreme.

I talk in generalities....you talk as if the discussion is only about you and your dominant and the way you do things. Is why we always clash.

In general, dominants usually don't push things to the level that you and yours do. So that kind of makes you the odd ball out in a lot of discussions because you take things beyound the scope of what most anyone else can relate to. That is FINE. If you stop reading everything as "you and your master" I think you will understand what I say AS I MEAN IT a hell of a lot better because most of your replies leave me scratching my head and wondering when the hell the discussion got to be all about you.

 

[serijules]

so you're in the moment and your PYL is having a grand old time wailing on you with a brand new beaded flogger you so happily made them. Each swing builds in intencity, every fall brings a new sting to your body. You're now at the point when things are getting uncomfortable...do you red out?

You push on and the beat of the flogger speads up. Your body throbs and you can feel the heat of the red glow on your back side...time to speak up?

You hear his delight, feel his delight his pleasure in the air, it's almost a perfume, so you continue on. You know how proud he is of you at that moment, you know he's getting what he needs in this moment, and in pleasing him you are getting what you need. The swings still continue to build, harder blows landing each time. Your body is now starting to shake and you're not sure if you can take more. You can feel yourself start to bruse. You feel the tears whell in you eyes. Is it time, do you speak now, knowing how much he is enjoying himself? It is imposible to excape the thought that if you say something at this point there will be disapointment on his part. Maybe not in you particularly, but in the fact that he could not continue.

You press on just that bit more, not wanting to disrupt his pleasure, not knowing how much more your body can take, clutching at the molding around the doorway you are pearched in. Your screams fill the room, your body feels like it's on fire, and shakes with so much force you feel like you will colapse.....For me this is the point where he stops. It's the point where I start strongly thinking about safewording out. When I did use yellow before, it was way before this point. This is a point I longed to get to, I wanted to get to, but I was afraid of being taken to that point.

If the thought of disapointing him wasn't in my mind I would not have ever gotten to the points I have, and that would disapoint me. Yes I push myself, but I have enough trust in him that I feel safe in doing so. I don't play with people I don't trust, period. I have strong bonds with those I play with, I don't play with just anyone. They know me very well, know my desires and limitations.

Would using my safeword at any point disapoint him? Yes, of course it would, unless that was his goal in the first place. But I understand why and it has very little to do with my ability to serve him, and every thing to do with his pleasure. My playmate is very very much a sadist, I know he would love to take things beyond what anyone could take. I also know that me not being able to go that far is not what disapoints him. But none the less I have disapointed him in some way, and that sadens me. Does he worry about me being upset? Not in the slightest. If I'm upset because I feel like I've disapointed him, then we are in the direction he wants to go. I should be upset, I did disapoint him, I stoped his fun. But he's not angry with me, and I won't be punished, infact i get to hold his leg and be petted as long as it takes to calm me down.

This is the end of our scene. He praises me for serving him well, and I get over the fact that I didn't go as far as he would like and work hard to go just that much further next time. With out that since of disapointment, I wouldn't work harder to go further, and there for would not grow, and our time together would be a waste.

That is nice, and I can relate.

But I'm not and never was at any time in this thread talking about comfort levels. I'm talking about safety issues. Broken bones. Passing out. Hitting a kidney too hard. Loosing feeling in body parts due to too tight binds. Having a sudden flashback to when you were raped at 12 years old.

It isn't called a comfort word. It's called a safe word. THAT is what I'm talking about.

 

[Andraste]

reading this gave me paper cuts.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think also it is sometimes about the familiarity you have with a partner. For us, we live together, talk about these things both at the time and casually throughout a normal day, and we are used to the sometimes unobvious signs when something is not right. If either of us were playing with someone we knew less intimately the ground rules would be different. To me that is natural and to be expected. I have been in the position of having bondage pressing on a not so good place and beginning to remove feeling, and F picked up on it the same time I opened my mouth to ask him to check. He took care of it and because I didn't use a safeword (early days when we had one), the scene continued. He had an annoying rule he did not have an in between word...if you safeworded, that was the end of the scene for that day, no yellow or waiting for a moment, just stop and no more so that was another reason to think twice before using it.

It frustrates me that these discussions, like those about TPE etc., always get into a series of presented horror scenarios which get worse and worse to try and prove one person right, the other wrong. The discussion then loses the value of presenting an acceptable and legitimate variety of ways, a progression of knowing a partner which then enables different behaviour and play than experienced with a casual or sometimes partner, and erodes the information to little more than an exercise in 'my horror scenario can show you just how wrong you are' instead of giving an overview of just how many different ways people approach the use or non-use of safewords and survive. Let's face it, we are all still able to post here so we can't be doing anything deadly wrong, just we differ in what is acceptable to us in our relationships and how we deal with that.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I am not presenting horror scenarios, rather commonplace risks in the way I choose to play, and disasters that happen to people with more experience than I've got. You are probably right that when you play with one person exclusively and often enough you may get to know one another's signs well enough that words are not needed in these situations - the majority of people aren't doing that. Either they have multiple partners, less challenging scenes, or they don't play as often. (by play substitute your verb of choice for complex SM)

I can't think of times where H had to call my attention to anything offhand, but I also know how to read him that well and check in and check where he's at before it becomes an issue. A lot of the mind-reading that people seem to be able to do has to do with pattern recognition and communicating in ways that don't read as a "check in" but are. I have to. He's not going to safeword, for the myriad reasons you have quite eloquently put forward.

This is not at ALL a case of "but would you bite the heads off babies if he told you to?" These are not far-flung what ifs. These are very possible and un-romanticized downsides that happen when you put rope around a person and tighten - hardly an "edge" activity. This is a person whose livelihood requires him to have the use of limbs and digits, and hence much of his usefulness to me. I don't have the luxury of keeping him without him working.

 

[the captians wench]

I think also it is sometimes about the familiarity you have with a partner. For us, we live together, talk about these things both at the time and casually throughout a normal day, and we are used to the sometimes unobvious signs when something is not right. If either of us were playing with someone we knew less intimately the ground rules would be different. To me that is natural and to be expected. I have been in the position of having bondage pressing on a not so good place and beginning to remove feeling, and F picked up on it the same time I opened my mouth to ask him to check. He took care of it and because I didn't use a safeword (early days when we had one), the scene continued. He had an annoying rule he did not have an in between word...if you safeworded, that was the end of the scene for that day, no yellow or waiting for a moment, just stop and no more so that was another reason to think twice before using it.

It frustrates me that these discussions, like those about TPE etc., always get into a series of presented horror scenarios which get worse and worse to try and prove one person right, the other wrong. The discussion then loses the value of presenting an acceptable and legitimate variety of ways, a progression of knowing a partner which then enables different behaviour and play than experienced with a casual or sometimes partner, and erodes the information to little more than an exercise in 'my horror scenario can show you just how wrong you are' instead of giving an overview of just how many different ways people approach the use or non-use of safewords and survive. Let's face it, we are all still able to post here so we can't be doing anything deadly wrong, just we differ in what is acceptable to us in our relationships and how we deal with that.

Catalina

And that was the point of this thread.

Because of what happened to us with this new girl, and what I read with mis, I started thinking maybe people have different ways of thinking what a safeword means.

I heard my playmate coach some one else on safewords one time saying "you must always honor a safeword. If the girl safewords, that action stops. Now you can choose to work another area, or go on to a different activity. But if you do not stop what you are doing then she will loose trust. And trust is the key stone of this lifestyle." he also added that I know better than to safeword with him which was a bit of his ego showing, but I didn't dare speak at that point. It's one thing to be cheeky when it's him and me, it's another to get cheeky infront of one of his friends. but I'm drifting.

He doesn't believe in breaks either, tho he does make exceptions with me because of my sugar. I did red once with him, he got into a space in my head I didn't want to be and couldn't take being and pushed myself to a place I could not stand being. Everything ended at that point, and I felt disapointed in myself. Not because I safeworded, but because I felt like I couldn't talk to him sooner and tell him what was going on and let things build to the point where I flat out told him I wanted him to leave. This is when we realized we had a problem, and we would have to work on me comunicating more durring a scene. Now if I feel those feelings building, I'm not afraid to tell him I'm going to that place. For me, a safeword is a last resort.

I thought that this new girl felt the same way. I thought she knew how we veiwed safewords and agreed with how they would be used. It is obvious now that she does not feel the same way, but I don't understand how she views them. And while I'm trying to dig this information out of her, I thought I would ask and get some other views on what a safeword means to others and how they view it should be used.

 

[Netzach]

And that was the point of this thread.

Because of what happened to us with this new girl, and what I read with mis, I started thinking maybe people have different ways of thinking what a safeword means.

I heard my playmate coach some one else on safewords one time saying "you must always honor a safeword. If the girl safewords, that action stops. Now you can choose to work another area, or go on to a different activity. But if you do not stop what you are doing then she will loose trust. And trust is the key stone of this lifestyle." he also added that I know better than to safeword with him which was a bit of his ego showing, but I didn't dare speak at that point. It's one thing to be cheeky when it's him and me, it's another to get cheeky infront of one of his friends. but I'm drifting.

He doesn't believe in breaks either, tho he does make exceptions with me because of my sugar. I did red once with him, he got into a space in my head I didn't want to be and couldn't take being and pushed myself to a place I could not stand being. Everything ended at that point, and I felt disapointed in myself. Not because I safeworded, but because I felt like I couldn't talk to him sooner and tell him what was going on and let things build to the point where I flat out told him I wanted him to leave. This is when we realized we had a problem, and we would have to work on me comunicating more durring a scene. Now if I feel those feelings building, I'm not afraid to tell him I'm going to that place. For me, a safeword is a last resort.

I thought that this new girl felt the same way. I thought she knew how we veiwed safewords and agreed with how they would be used. It is obvious now that she does not feel the same way, but I don't understand how she views them. And while I'm trying to dig this information out of her, I thought I would ask and get some other views on what a safeword means to others and how they view it should be used.

I guess in thinking about it, risk/disappointment potential kind of exist on an axis for me. If I've been doing something a million times, or there are not as many high risks in the activity with someone, and they safeword or ask to stop, I'll be pissed in some cases, let down in others. If I'm doing something new to them, new to me, higher risk/more nuanced like rope suspension or trampling, I'm not going to be as disappointed if they need an adjustment/breather/out.

The area of dissonance is sometimes that your bottom is pushing into riskier territory *for them* than for you. This is where "oh you've gotta be kidding" might happen.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I talk in generalities....you talk as if the discussion is only about you and your dominant and the way you do things. Is why we always clash.

In general, dominants usually don't push things to the level that you and yours do. So that kind of makes you the odd ball out in a lot of discussions because you take things beyound the scope of what most anyone else can relate to. That is FINE. If you stop reading everything as "you and your master" I think you will understand what I say AS I MEAN IT a hell of a lot better because most of your replies leave me scratching my head and wondering when the hell the discussion got to be all about you.

I'm glad we aren't disagreeing totally then. I don't talk in generalities because I am not qualified to talk about every situation with every person. I also do not promote my way as the only way, nor do I insist it is how people should do things...in fact I usually caution people to think first and be aware it is not a walk in the park to be taken lightly. I am aware that we all do things differently, hopefully based on what works for us as individuals, and while I could never do the things some do or the way they do them, I do not move then to assuming they must be wrong to chose that path or way, just it is not for me at this point.

I try to speak about my experiences in a way which shares information and also emphasise it is my experience, not necessarily everyone's...but it is my experience and what I know... If I spoke in generalities, I would be posting vague words with little direction which I don't think would help anyone. It certainly would not be very reliable because it is not based on real experience, just on how I think xyz might be. I don't see the way I post as any different to your posts which are usually about you and Dawnie and the way you do things..because that is what you know...it is foolish to try and post about something you don't know as if you did, or to insist that just because this is how it works for you, it is how it should work for everyone.

I am aware I am in the unique position of beginning from my very first SM experience with hard play to the point of black and blue all over....I no longer bruise that easily unfortunately. Then I also don't play that hard these days due to the problems I have had, but we are making a positive and decisive step to move back to that place and hopefully beyond anything we have ever done before. Strangely enough, I don't see what we have done as that extreme. I recognise this pattern of starting hard as part of who I am...once I decide to do something, I tend to dive in deep or not at all. To me it didn't interest me to start light and work up. I guess I also had a good guide encouraging that part of me to trust my instincts and go for it. It is my experience, I don't apologise for it, but nor do I try to insist it should be everyone's experience, or that I know what it might be like for them.

Catalina

 

[the captians wench]

I guess in thinking about it, risk/disappointment potential kind of exist on an axis for me. If I've been doing something a million times, or there are not as many high risks in the activity with someone, and they safeword or ask to stop, I'll be pissed in some cases, let down in others. If I'm doing something new to them, new to me, higher risk/more nuanced like rope suspension or trampling, I'm not going to be as disappointed if they need an adjustment/breather/out.

The area of dissonance is sometimes that your bottom is pushing into riskier territory *for them* than for you. This is where "oh you've gotta be kidding" might happen.

I agree that that is a posiblity. I know she mentioned that she started to flashback to a bad scene when she safeworded the first time. But we stoped that activity all together and did not do it again. Then she safeworded at a different time with the whole "I don't feel like it right now" attitude.

What bothers me most is that she won't talk to me about what happened. He and I have hung out together, gone shoping, done the whole girly thing, and talk about everything....except for this. Part of me wants to tell her how her tone made things sound disrespectful and like she was trying to run the scene. But the other part of me knows that if I do not do it in just the right way it will invalidate her feelings and I am desperately trying to avoid that.

this is why I don't top.

 

[Netzach]

I agree that that is a posiblity. I know she mentioned that she started to flashback to a bad scene when she safeworded the first time. But we stoped that activity all together and did not do it again. Then she safeworded at a different time with the whole "I don't feel like it right now" attitude.

What bothers me most is that she won't talk to me about what happened. He and I have hung out together, gone shoping, done the whole girly thing, and talk about everything....except for this. Part of me wants to tell her how her tone made things sound disrespectful and like she was trying to run the scene. But the other part of me knows that if I do not do it in just the right way it will invalidate her feelings and I am desperately trying to avoid that.

this is why I don't top.

Heh, yeah. Her lack of talking about it would be a giant flaming red flag for me, if that makes you feel a little better about it. I don't think you guys did *anything* wrong, but I'm thinking there may be a bit of incompatibility here. I don't like to invest time into people who aren't fairly clear in what they are looking to do and able to articulate it - hell who *want* to talk about it.

I'm sure that means I'm missing out on some great people, but it helps me a lot.

 

[the captians wench]

Heh, yeah. Her lack of talking about it would be a giant flaming red flag for me, if that makes you feel a little better about it. I don't think you guys did *anything* wrong, but I'm thinking there may be a bit of incompatibility here. I don't like to invest time into people who aren't fairly clear in what they are looking to do and able to articulate it - hell who *want* to talk about it.

I'm sure that means I'm missing out on some great people, but it helps me a lot.

I one time i would have been the same way. But one I know he's not going to give up on her so easily, and two, I had a very simular experience with him in the begining, so those things make me push on.

but it's frusterating as hell! makes me want to dig out a mind probe or something.

 

[myinnerslut]

My M.O. could be summarized as: Obey the safeword if you hear it, but always behave as if the safeword system is not in place.

very well said

 

[serijules]

Cat,

You just have this way of replying to things that makes it sound as if the person was directly speaking to you when in fact they are usually addressing the thread or topic and the readers as a whole, not saying what is or is not "right" about your way. Ever noticed how many people end up getting into arguments with you? I think that has something to do with it.

You'll have to excuse me today...I was using lit as a distraction and it didn't really work. I lost my beloved great dane Emma very unexpectedly when I found her dead sunday morning and I'm still heartbroken and in shock. So my defenses are running very high :/

 

[graceanne]

You'll have to excuse me today...I was using lit as a distraction and it didn't really work. I lost my beloved great dane Emma very unexpectedly when I found her dead sunday morning and I'm still heartbroken and in shock. So my defenses are running very high :/

*hugs*

 

[catalina_francisco]

Cat,

You just have this way of replying to things that makes it sound as if the person was directly speaking to you when in fact they are usually addressing the thread or topic and the readers as a whole, not saying what is or is not "right" about your way. Ever noticed how many people end up getting into arguments with you? I think that has something to do with it.

You'll have to excuse me today...I was using lit as a distraction and it didn't really work. I lost my beloved great dane Emma very unexpectedly when I found her dead sunday morning and I'm still heartbroken and in shock. So my defenses are running very high :/

Sorry to hear about Emma...it is never easy to lose a beloved animal.

As to the rest, I'm sorry seri but I speak honestly and openly without venom and unfortunately you often take offence where none was intended, often due to your particular way of interpreting what has been said (and not just with me), and often comment on the fact I speak about my own relationship as if it is a sin to do so when you, graceanne, shy, Netzach, almost everyone does the same.

And no, I don't find a lot of people get into arguments with me, though from time to time people across the board get upset with each other for various reasons from time to time, including me...it is life and part of the minimal downside of communicating with a huge variety of personalities in this context. I must admit to being puzzled though as I did respond to your statement which was clearly directed to me by your own words, not my imagination, and which I didn't happen to take offence at. I think what we learn from and share with each other far outweighs any momentary upsets. As much as I hate conflict, at least if people get into arguments there is more discussion and exchange of ideas happening then when all that is said is 'I agree' or worse still, nothing.

I think a lot of where we clash is that there are particular things we both feel strongly about, and some of your opinions become an insistence from you that people should follow your example and do as you say, such as one of our earliest clashes when you and your Domme at the time felt it inappropriate I had made our own canes and I should have bought them at least partially prepared or completely made by a professional because it was not possible for someone previously inexperienced to do...from memory you also made inferences at that time that I was wrong to be advising anyone on how to do it as I could be giving out dangerous information even though I had gotten my own information and guidance from experienced people, and been told how well made mine were. Those canes are still going strong today without any of the predicted possibility of splintering and breaking, damaging me or others. I applaud strong opinions and think there should be more of them in the world, but it needs to be balanced and recognised others also have experiences and opinions worthy of consideration.

Catalina