Unconditional Love

[misspihla]

Unconditional love is a bit like "perfect" partner. Partner rarely can be perfect but one's impression and image of him/her can be perfect.

Same thing goes with love. I have hard time anyone would love someone so that "nothing will change it". So that you love someone and that person leaves you, rapes you mother, kills your children and so on - and still you would love that person without any difference? Dont think so. Wouldnt unconditional love mean that the person loving has no own will or judgement at all anymore? (As mentioned with children, parents often really doesnt have own will since their behavior is much dictated by biology.)

I think unconditional love is quite romantic view of how we would like things to be..

 

[ownedsubgal]

Unconditional love is a bit like "perfect" partner. Partner rarely can be perfect but one's impression and image of him/her can be perfect.

Same thing goes with love. I have hard time anyone would love someone so that "nothing will change it". So that you love someone and that person leaves you, rapes you mother, kills your children and so on - and still you would love that person without any difference? Dont think so. Wouldnt unconditional love mean that the person loving has no own will or judgement at all anymore? (As mentioned with children, parents often really doesnt have own will since their behavior is much dictated by biology.)

I think unconditional love is quite romantic view of how we would like things to be..

spoken like one who (fortunately or unfortunately, depending on one's view) has never experienced unconditional love.

my Master could beat me into a coma, leave me, murder a dear loved one, rape minors, rob liquor stores, whatever...my love for him will not diminish or change. i may decide that i no longer "like" him very much, but i will always love him. likewise, i could hurt my Master deeply...murder a loved one, rip his heart out, whatever...he may even kill me he will be so hurt and enraged...but he would still love me.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

i've never understood the idea that a parent's love for a child is unconditional, when often this is the most conditional love of all.

I would have to say my love for my son is unconditional. It really is not unlike as you describe the stronger end of conducts that you embrace in regards to your Master , ownedsubgal. In as much as no matter what I need to contend with as a direct result of being his mother the love is never challenged . Do I like him every second or every day. No. That's an entirely different matter. Though actually I can state I am rather blessed , my child has remarkable qualities , not liking him for glimmers of time only futher reinforces my appreciation of the aforementioned.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I would have to say my love for my son is unconditional. It really is not unlike as you describe the stronger end of conducts that you embrace in regards to your Master , ownedsubgal. In as much as no matter what I need to contend with as a direct result of being his mother the love is never challenged . Do I like him every second or every day. No. That's an entirely different matter. Though actually I can state I am rather blessed , my child has remarkable qualities , not liking him for glimmers of time only futher reinforces my appreciation of the aforementioned.

hi rebecca, i did not mean to imply that no parent loves their child unconditionally, obviously some do. however it is not the given that many people make it out to be. your son is very fortunate to have your unconditional, unwavering love.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

hi rebecca, i did not mean to imply that no parent loves their child unconditionally, obviously some do. however it is not the given that many people make it out to be. your son is very fortunate to have your unconditional, unwavering love.

I didn't for a moment think you had. I honestly took no umbrage to your post at all. There are some very unique perceptions as to what in reality meets the criteria of 'unconditional love' , I just wished to share a perspective of my own. Thank you for the compliment also , it's heartily appreciated ownedsubgal.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Unconditional love is a bit like "perfect" partner. Partner rarely can be perfect but one's impression and image of him/her can be perfect.

Same thing goes with love. I have hard time anyone would love someone so that "nothing will change it". So that you love someone and that person leaves you, rapes you mother, kills your children and so on - and still you would love that person without any difference? Dont think so. Wouldnt unconditional love mean that the person loving has no own will or judgement at all anymore? (As mentioned with children, parents often really doesnt have own will since their behavior is much dictated by biology.)

I think unconditional love is quite romantic view of how we would like things to be..

HAve to say I don't agree, but then I am blessed with experiencing it. I think if you 'love' someone you may not know as well as you think, then you get to know parts of them you didn't initially see due to brevity and/or circumstances, then you may find your love tested...but I think when you have a good knowledge of who you love and yourself, there really isn't anything which will make the love go away. I also think many confuse forgiveness with love when talking of the unreality of unconditional love. There are times in life when someone you love does something you may not like, may not be able to forgive, or maybe forget, but it still does not impact on your love for them. It is like osg says, an incredibly secure feeling to actually have when you find it...I can truly say I have never known it in any other relationship, at least not where it went both ways...now I am blessed.

I also agree with what Miss rebecca says about unconditional love and your children. Some parents don't have it, some like myself do. It doesn't mean you have them on a pedestal, usually quite the opposite...it also doesn't mean you approve of or like all they do...but you love them regardless and accept their right to be individual and have their own personality, life, character. It can lead to great pain, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Catalina

 

[BiBunny]

The whole "Would you still love that person if they committed murder or rape or whatever heinous crime?" thing sounds a lot like the "Would you do what your Master asks of you, no matter what it is, even if they expect YOU to commit a heinous crime?" thing that occurs at least once every couple of months here. JMohegan had a good answer to that question, and I'm going to see if I can find it.

Woo-hoo, I found it! The Blank Check Of Consent While his post is actually talking about D/s and a dominant's expectations of his/her sub, I think it can be applied to the concept of unconditional love as well.

 

[catalina_francisco]

The whole "Would you still love that person if they committed murder or rape or whatever heinous crime?" thing sounds a lot like the "Would you do what your Master asks of you, no matter what it is, even if they expect YOU to commit a heinous crime?" thing that occurs at least once every couple of months here. JMohegan had a good answer to that question, and I'm going to see if I can find it.

Woo-hoo, I found it! The Blank Check Of Consent While his post is actually talking about D/s and a dominant's expectations of his/her sub, I think it can be applied to the concept of unconditional love as well.

Hmmm, where I think this differs is that unconditional love is not reliant on behaviour. Many people, myself included, cannot name that specific reason why they love the person they do, they just do...what that person does, what they might say has little connection with that love. You can judge a person's behaviour, but that doesn't necessarily mean that to judge the behaviour as wrong, bad, or negative etc., you are measuring it in terms of love, or even connecting it to love. Maybe an easier way to explain it is if you love unconditionally, that is what it means....you do not set codes of behaviour as ways to maintain that love. If that were so, those convicted of murder, rape, robbery etc., would have no-one who loved or cared about them. Truth is, often their families, sometimes their friends, continue to love them even though they may not support or condone what they have done. Once you love someone, you do not have to approve of their behaviour to continue to love them. Does that make sense?

Catalina

 

[misspihla]

What bothers me in unconditional love is that it expects that a person never changes. That no event is possible that it would change a person. I dont believe in such. I believe humans have survived so far just because of the ability to adapt and learn new things. Love is partially of what you learn about someone. It is love because you have learned something positive about that person. In same way I believe it is possible to learn something that will change that love.

Not having choise but to love without any willpower or own mind left sounds more scary to me.

Like I said it seems more like a romantical view of really deep love - believing nothing can change it. And the thing is you cannot know it wont change until end of the time or something. In that way it feels quite weird to be told that I havent felt as deep love as you (which might be true but still).

Another interesting thing is: how can you unconditionally love someone and same time decide not to like that person?

 

[BiBunny]

Hmmm, where I think this differs is that unconditional love is not reliant on behaviour. Many people, myself included, cannot name that specific reason why they love the person they do, they just do...what that person does, what they might say has little connection with that love. You can judge a person's behaviour, but that doesn't necessarily mean that to judge the behaviour as wrong, bad, or negative etc., you are measuring it in terms of love, or even connecting it to love. Maybe an easier way to explain it is if you love unconditionally, that is what it means....you do not set codes of behaviour as ways to maintain that love. If that were so, those convicted of murder, rape, robbery etc., would have no-one who loved or cared about them. Truth is, often their families, sometimes their friends, continue to love them even though they may not support or condone what they have done. Once you love someone, you do not have to approve of their behaviour to continue to love them. Does that make sense?

Catalina

I think we're basically saying the same thing but approaching it in different ways. I'm about to engage in some hardcore circular reasoning, but I'd love Kitty or B. even if they did murder someone. However, I fell in love with them because they are who they are, and cold-blooded murderers are not who they are. Ok, I'm frustrating myself. I hate when I can't get things to come out like I want them to, LOL! Anyway, I'm trying to say that I do agree with you.

 

[misspihla]

However, I fell in love with them because they are who they are, and cold-blooded murderers are not who they are. Ok, I'm frustrating myself. I hate when I can't get things to come out like I want them to, LOL! Anyway, I'm trying to say that I do agree with you.

You are trying to say you would continue loving them because of what you have experienced and had with them so far but not necessary because what they would be after some events?

 

[BiBunny]

You are trying to say you would continue loving them because of what you have experienced and had with them so far but not necessary because what they would be after some events?

Errr...yeah, I think so. I think osg said it best earlier when she said that if her Master did something horrible, she might not like him as a person anymore, but she'd still love him. I like to think that my way of loving another doesn't make value judgments, but I don't know.

 

[catalina_francisco]

What bothers me in unconditional love is that it expects that a person never changes. That no event is possible that it would change a person. I dont believe in such. I believe humans have survived so far just because it's ability to adapt and learn new things. Love is partially of what you learn about someone. It is love because you have learned something positive about that person. In same way I believe it is possible to learn something that will change that love.

Not having choise but to love without any willpower or own mind left sounds more scary to me.

Like I said it seems more like a romantical view of really deep love - believing nothing can change it. And the thing is you cannot know it wont change until end of the time or something. In that way it feels quite weird to be told that I havent felt as deep love as you (which might be true but still).

That is only looking at it from one side. IMHO, unconditional love does not rule out people changing, instead it accepts them even when they do and because they do. You are right, we all change and adapt throughout life...it is part of the process, but if you can't accept that somewhere you might find someone you can love no matter what, what is the point of ever considering having a relationship? You may as well have temporary relationships with the upfront acknowledgement that one day you will move on without that person for whatever reason. How do you feel when in a relationship with someone if they tell you who and what they expect you to be to fulfil their image and desires?

I don't believe everyone finds this kind of love...it took me until I was in my 40's to find mine, and required a lot of soul searching, honesty, and opening up of my heart and soul to another. I have no doubt it is reciprocated, and that he accepts me whether I am behaving in just the way he wants, or whether for some reason I am not, or perhaps am in a coma, a wheelchair, blind, or if I did something far from what he found acceptable. It would not change the love we share. It is not romanticising it, though to those who have never experienced it, it appears to be simply because they don't know what it feels like. I also think it requires accepting no-one has the right to put expectations on another, or place them on a pedestal and expect them to live up to that idealised view....it is about accepting people are human,accepting them for themselves, people make mistakes, people are not like the characters in a Hollywood movie, they live, breath, fart, throw up, feel, get angry, are themselves, not some idealised image placed before them to fit into and conform to at the threat of banishment if they don't. Sheesh that would be too much pressure on any one person to have a chance of succeeding.

Catalina

 

[misspihla]

I think we in some ways differ in our definition of love itself.

if you can't accept that somewhere you might find someone you can love no matter what, what is the point of ever considering having a relationship? You may as well have temporary relationships with the upfront acknowledgement that one day you will move on without that person for whatever reason.

I dont understand problem in that. If I love someone and want to be with that person I dont question myself if I will love that person forever.

On opposite it seems that if you dont feel unconditional love with someone even if you love that person, you have a problem if you should move on or not? Eternal search for "perfect" partner you might actually never find and same time turning down many people you might love but are not "perfect" enough?

I think life is best when enjoyed day by day. Loving today is good reason to be in relationship. It might change tomorrow but worrying about it will only ruin this day.

How do you feel when in a relationship with someone if they tell you who and what they expect you to be to fulfil their image and desires?

We all have desires. And I believe I cannot totally fulfil anyones as they cant fulfil mine. But thats where the real love comes in - in compromises.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

...........

 

[catalina_francisco]

We all have desires. And I believe I cannot totally fulfil anyones as they cant fulfil mine. But thats where the real love comes in - in compromises.

So then, isn't that unconditional given you are willing to compromise and remain in the relationship and in love as opposed to enforcing conditions? I also think you are approaching it as if the relationship is uncopnditional from the first date...it isn't, but once love is there and commitment follows, unconditionality can and does become a part of the equation. Of course, as a parent, it is there from before birth for many. Some parents can turn their backs on their children and disown them for not fulfiling their expectations...I can't. I do not expect them to mirror my values, choices, ethics...I expect them to be themselves, live their life, not one I map out for them. It is not an easy thing to explain in words, but it is much easier to understand at my present age than it would have been pre-30 or so.

Catalina

 

[misspihla]

So then, isn't that unconditional given you are willing to compromise and remain in the relationship and in love as opposed to enforcing conditions?

No, of course it's not. Im willing to compromise but not compromise everything. There are always some conditions. I dont expect my partners to be perfect - far from that. But I do have certain thing do I require from a person to be able love that person. If those things change too much the love can fade away or change.

For example if a person who I love would turn me down and lie me about too much I would probably realise my love would have been based on lies and illusions. For me it seems more impossible to love someone and then decide not to like that person anymore, and still keep loving him/her very much. I would rather say I wouldnt love that person anymore - no matter how much I would miss and love the person s/he used to be/or who I believed him/her to be.

I also think you are approaching it as if the relationship is uncopnditional from the first date...it isn't, but once love is there and commitment follows, unconditionality can and does become a part of the equation.

I see every relationship as a compromise where two non-perfect person love each other as they see each other and think each other and how their future will be. If persons change radically or something else negative happens love can change... or even if nothing happens it can fade away. In that way its far from unconditional, in fact it has lots of condition. Conditions just arent that other one should be perfect - other just need to loveable.