Undefinable D/s relationships.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

And a nice tree you'd be, too.

 

[Betticus]

If I think I'm a tree, and my loved ones think I'm a tree, who the fuck are you to tell me I'm not a tree?


but I'm in a pissy mood so what ever.

Sometimes you just wake up in a pissed on mood. Go figure...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BETTICUS

Now that you mention it, the cops dug up a bitch the other day. Someone buried her about 15 years ago. All her clothes had rotted away. But they examined her bones, and sure enough she was female.

Now! No one knows if she was dressed like Roy Rogers or Superman or George W. Bush when she died, but she sure as shit was a woman and not a tree or flower or male.

 

[catalina_francisco]

[Yay! Insomnia!]

But see that's where it breaks down for me... the compartmentalized argument... I am seeking out a relationship in which there are clearly defined "rules" for lack of a better term. I know my place, I am regularly reminded of my place, I know there are pros and cons of exsisting within my place, and consequences for stepping outside of my place. I understand that security. I need that security.

(speaking hypothetically as I'm not in a relationship)

As long as "serving at his pleasure" remains at the top of the list, I am honoring my position and fulfilling my place - regardless of wether or not others see my behaviour as fitting a "submissive/slave", or are of the opinion that I'm too spoiled to qualify as a "submissive/slave", or think the dynamic is more "girl" than "slave", or feel I'm being less than submissive/slave-like by taking charge of XYZ (probably at his request, or as intuitively meeting a need I recognise he has). As long as he and I understand and agree upon the blurry lines, as long as he and I define our "titles", who gives a rat's ass if I appear to be a "real" whatever?

It goes back to my belief that labels are jumping off points, not landing pads. My actions define me; my purpose is [will be] to place his pleasure as my highest priority; therefore, regardless of what I am doing at any given time, as long as I keep that purpose in mind, I am continuing to exsist within the agreed upon boundaries of our rules and definitions. Any angst over fitting the cultural "true" definition of Susie Slave is thus eliminated.

[/Yay! Insomnia!]

I think as you say, the secret is to know what the parameters are for those involved, what it means to them, more so than what others interpret it as or think it shoud be. I doubt any 2 relationships are exactly the same, even if the roles bear the same name and loose expectations. For us, M/s means that while he wants to keep his property in some sort of workable condition, he is not going to assign me to bed and wait on me whenever I get sick. Sometimes if he knows I am particularly unwell, especially if it has resulted in no sleep all night, he will tell me it is OK for me to remain in bed while he gets ready for work, but only if everything is ready for him....if not, or if he is not in such a giving mood, I still have to get up and do what has to be done.

Similarly, days like today when he came home from work early, and I had walked to the shops and had a heavy bag of things and wasn't feeling well and was also in pain, phoning him to ask if he would be prepared to pick me up drew a 'no' as he wasn't feeling like getting back in the car and driving to get me...it took awhile to get home, with a few breaks along the way, but I managed and he was comfortable with his feet up when I got here and ready for a drink and something to eat....which I got for him. That is just the way we do it because for us being a slave means serving his needs before my own unless there are really extenuating circumstances he is prepared to allow for. Other times he will massage my swollen feet. It is fluid, but it is not as another M/s relationship might function.

I also think, as careful as you might be about what you will and won't accept before becoming involved, there are often things which change, and compromises which have to be made as opposed to pointing to the list of expectations which is maybe not working for both.

Catalina

 

[doveofserenity]

That's interesting to me... I am no fan of Mr.Johnson's postings, but I went back and double checked his contributions to the thread, and didn't see anywhere that he called people names, or judged any specific members of this forum. He gave his opinion that (paraphrasing here) there are some people on the forum who don't understand themselves/BDSM very well, and that he's known people in real life who have an under developed sense of self, and he made a very casual connection between the two.

I'm not a fan of his delivery, but if you can push past all the sarcastic grumpy old asshole BS, and read his posts with utter neutrality, he his arguments [occasionally] have a grain of truth to them.

CutieMouse, earlier in the thread he called Homburg, who i respect and value His words; Humbug two different times.

He called me lovey dovey, and as doveofserenity is my tribal name; that is putting me down.

And on another thread he degraded HB very badly.

You may not have read that when you posted, and your opinion is your own; but that is why i claimed he was calling people names and judging them.

i stay calm most of time, but when i see friends being degraded and it is not their wish to be; then i speak up.

So CM, glad to finally meet you, and no hard feelings.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

lovey-dovey

I knew girls like you in school. Actually you remind me of Jeffrey Bender. He was the kid who told the teacher who was talking when she was out of the room. I think he just liked getting his ass kicked a lot.

 

[BiBunny]

My opinion--take it for what it's worth:

All people (myself included) like to think we're special. We like to think that everyone else can be easily labeled, but that we defy such labeling. In some ways that's true, and in some ways it's not. People and their relationships are individuals, but usually, folks do fit into rather broad, fluid categories.

How was that for a non-answer?

 

[Homburg]

CutieMouse, earlier in the thread he called Homburg, who i respect and value His words; Humbug two different times.

Thank you for saying you value my words, doveofserenity. *bows*

In JBJ's defense (sort of, and only in regards to me specifically) we've both called each other worse

I can understand your issue with his modification of your name though.

And the respect is mutual.

 

[Homburg]

My opinion--take it for what it's worth:

All people (myself included) like to think we're special. We like to think that everyone else can be easily labeled, but that we defy such labeling. In some ways that's true, and in some ways it's not. People and their relationships are individuals, but usually, folks do fit into rather broad, fluid categories.

It's kind of weird, but my attitude towards myself is that I'm not particularly special. I say that in very specfic way though, and it refers to the things I do, have done, and can do. My attitude towards anything I have done or achieved is that anyone else can do it too (barring actual physiological differences). Specifically, there's nothing particularly special about me, so you can learn to do this too.

That sort of "I'm normal, so catch up, people" attitude extends to the rest of my life too. I'm not a unique and precious snowflake, and neither is anyone else. Well, I try to maintain that. Every once in a while, someone comes along that is a unique and precious snowflake. But everybody else? If they can do it, I can too.

My personality? Now, that's 'special', and not in a good way

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

HUMBUG

I think it was Mark Twain or maybe Mencken who observed that Americans want it both ways...they want equality for everyone but themselves. They want everyone to line up (no cheating) and take their turn while they slip in the back door.

 

[doveofserenity]

Thank you for saying you value my words, doveofserenity. *bows*

In JBJ's defense (sort of, and only in regards to me specifically) we've both called each other worse

I can understand your issue with his modification of your name though.

And the respect is mutual.

Your most welcome, Sir. Tis the truth.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

When you get right down to it, about 2% of the population is special enough you cant help but notice their superiority; and another 2% are so fucked up they get noticed, too. But most of us are pretty much alike.

 

[Homburg]

HUMBUG

I think it was Mark Twain or maybe Mencken who observed that Americans want it both ways...they want equality for everyone but themselves. They want everyone to line up (no cheating) and take their turn while they slip in the back door.

*blinks*

Damn, it could be both. I'm wracking my brain trying to decide which that sounds more like, and it could go either way.

Makes me want to dig out the work I have from both of them and reread it =)

 

[graceanne]

Holy Cow. Trollie's been having too much fun today. LOL

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[graceanne]

DOS - you're letting the troll win when you get upset. If he bugs you that bad, put him on ignore, cause I guarantee that now the he knows that making fun of your name makes you mad, he'll keep doing it and doing it. THAT'S WHAT TROLLS DO.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

GRACIE you are so full of it your eyes are brown. I simply let my truth loose and some of you act like you stepped on a snake.

 

[graceanne]

GRACIE you are so full of it your eyes are brown. I simply let my truth loose and some of you act like you stepped on a snake.

My eyes are blue.

Ameteur, I'm not that easy to piss off.

 

[Netzach]

People with tin foil hats are certain they have a pipeline to the truth generally.

 

[FurryFury]

Perhaps the 'come in here judging people and calling them names' refers to JBJ's posts on the forum as a whole, not this particular thread...and yes, it is accurate in many instances CM. Personally, with people like this, I don't bother wasting my precious time pushing past their BS to try and find gold or supposed truth....I sort of think the approach they use indicates how much worth will usually be found in their words overall...maybe I am just not that fond of gold I find it necessary to dig in shit to find some.

Catalina

I have said that in slightly different words to people and about people so many times.

All this crap about deep down they are nice, sweet, okay, intelligent, so fucking what? When the demeanor they present is that of an Asshat, I simply don't care what is deep down.

It's sort of like Severus Snape in the Harry Potter Books. He was unpleasant to be around. I don't care if he "ultimately" did good. He was a jerk who did things for selfish reasons. He can't be redeemed in my eyes.

Now on another track, about females that change who they are based on who they are with. I honestly find that sad. I've seen it a LOT. I've seen it taken to extremes that are not healthy.

The thing is I'm not sure I have the right to feel that way. I mean it's their decision, their lives. Those decisions, one would assume are just as valid as following their own goals. Right?

Being a well socialized female around here usually does mean giving up some of yourself for those you love. God knows I've done that. I'm damned glad I have. It doesn't mean I've lost myself though. That's what I worry about for some.

I think this is why there are so many elderly and bitter ladies. Eventually the kids leave and rarely visit. The husband dies. She turns around and says, I did this for THEM, how could they treat me this way? How could I be alone? I've lived for others.

I listen to my friends. They tell me their dreams and goals. Then they get with a love interest and boom, everything changes or nearly so.

But is that bad? Or is that just life?

Sometimes other peoples dreams are so beautiful and wonderful they are hard to resist. You want to help make them come as close to true as you can too because you love them.

Sometimes your dreams turn out to be things you don't really want. Things that would have left you cold and miserable.

Every choice I made even if I factored others into it, I made. I'm comfortable with making those choices, changing my dreams. In fact, when I made choices with others in mind, I made the best choices of my life. If I only had me to think about, I'm sure my course would have been far more self destructive.

So I hope that when I am alone someday, I will still remember. I made that choice not for my daughter, son, husband, father or mother but because I made it and it was a good choice, a better choice for me and for them.

Then I think about men who change their goals, who they are and their visions for the people they love.

Well I try to. Can't really think of any but for the sake of argument let's say I can. Would I feel as sad for them? Would I have more of a right to?

I'm going to go with, it would bother me but perhaps a little less. I'll admit I have a double standard. I generally think men are far more selfish than women. I know of a few specific incidents that don't follow that but in general this is what I've seen.

I think society engenders these things.

Given that, I think when a man gives a little for the people he loves that's usually reflects some maturity and is a healthy thing. However if he gives up all his goals and dreams just like with a woman, it would make me sad.

I know my core is the same regardless but yes, I'm influenced a bit by who I'm with as they are by me. Usually, and this is what makes it a nice and healthy fit, we affect each other in good ways.

I'm probably talking too much.

As usual.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Oh! People judge all the time. It cant be avoided. Any time you make a choice you judge things. You cannot be sympathetic without judging. So the hostile attitude to judgments is bull-shit. What folks are upset about is not getting their own judgments validated.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Oh! People judge all the time. It cant be avoided. Any time you make a choice you judge things. You cannot be sympathetic without judging. So the hostile attitude to judgments is bull-shit. What folks are upset about is not getting their own judgments validated.

LOL, at least we agree on something...I often draw attention to the fact we make judgements all day every day and that it is a necessary part of survival...but in making judgements, one does not have to be derogatory, ultra sarcastic, arrogant, aggressive, patronising and/or rude...in that we differ.

Catalina

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CATALINA

Folks always smear the people and ideas they dont like. When people run out of arguments and facts they usually resort to slinging crap at their opponent.