Vampires

[MillieDynamite]

Whatever happened to my Transylvania twist?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Re. invitations, also, from "Dracula":

‘Welcome to my house! Enter freely and of your own free will!’ [Dracula] made no motion of stepping to meet me, but stood like a statue, as though his gesture of welcome had fixed him into stone. The instant, however, that I had stepped over the threshold, he moved impulsively forward, and holding out his hand grasped mine with a strength which made me wince...

That's not a case of "vampires need to be invited" - here, it's the vampire doing the inviting. But it does seem to suggest that the invitation, its acceptance, and crossing a physical threshold are significant acts. One could read a suggestion that Harker's accepting the offer and voluntarily crossing the threshold are significant in giving Dracula power over him.

The idea that thresholds have some supernatural significance is hinted again elsewhere in the book, when our heroes are destroying one of Dracula's havens, with some terriers brought along to fight off his rats:

The Professor was the first to move forward, and stepped into the open door. ‘In manus tuas, Domine!’ he said, crossing himself as he passed over the threshold.

...

The dogs dashed on, but at the threshold suddenly stopped and snarled, and then, simultaneously lifting their noses, began to howl in most lugubrious fashion.

 

[MetaBob]

There has been a number of discussions about vampires on here. I don't want to do a thread drift, so I'll start this one. In 1974 I had a course with an English professor, Paul Oppenheimer. I think the full title was The Vampire: Ideas of Evil in Western Civilization. The guy was quirky but brilliant. I'd rate him as one of the best professors I ever had. We read Dracula, of course, but also Dante, Poe, and others. He passed at couple of years ago at the age of 83.

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/nytimes/name/paul-oppenheimer-obituary?id=36089178

https://www.ccny.cuny.edu/profiles/paul-oppenheimer

As attested in my sig below, I've been working on a vampire story titled "Celtic Vampiress", for which I have nearly 30K words. Some of you have beta-read much of it, which I appreciate immensely. I read every work mentioned in this thread for research, but my true source material is much older: stories passed down through oral tradition, especially in Great Britain. These are folkloric vampires, not their Hollywood derivations, though they do share some features. As in Carmilla, my vampires can tolerate sunlight, but it weakens them so in daylight they prefer deep shade, ideally in a stone house. They can travel over water but prefer not to, largely because their power commands the allegiance of other fae, whom they don't like to leave unprotected.

One thing to keep in mind is that Abraham ("Bram") Stoker who wrote Dracula in 1897, and Joseph Thomas Sheridan Le Fanu who wrote Carmilla in 1872, which was reportedly a profound influence on Stoker, were both Irish, neither having traveled to Transylvania. John William Polidori who wrote The Vampyre in 1819, was English but of Italian ancestry, and while he did travel to southern Europe (with Lord George Gordon Byron, Percy Bysshe Shelley, and Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin Shelley, who wrote Frankenstein in 1818), he was also of the British Isles. Thus, most of the vampire stories we know were written by English speakers even though stories of vampires have existed in other cultures for millennia.

I chose to set my book in Ireland and Wales largely because of the existence of these Celtic legends of vampires, many of whom were women who tempted men to bloody doom and whose legends were almost certainly known to Stoker and Le Fanu. I also chose to set it almost 2000 years ago, which is a period largely unknown except through Roman sources (and oral tradition).

 

[MillieDynamite]

I remember Dracula needing to be invited inside by anyone. Dracula tryed to force Renfield to invite him into the sanatarium, "he came up to the window in the mist . . . but he was solid then . . . I wouldn't ask him to come in . . .".

Re. invitations, also, from "Dracula":

‘Welcome to my house! Enter freely and of your own free will!’ [Dracula] made no motion of stepping to meet me, but stood like a statue, as though his gesture of welcome had fixed him into stone. The instant, however, that I had stepped over the threshold, he moved impulsively forward, and holding out his hand grasped mine with a strength which made me wince...

That's not a case of "vampires need to be invited" - here, it's the vampire doing the inviting. But it does seem to suggest that the invitation, its acceptance, and crossing a physical threshold are significant acts. One could read a suggestion that Harker's accepting the offer and voluntarily crossing the threshold are significant in giving Dracula power over him.

The idea that thresholds have some supernatural significance is hinted again elsewhere in the book, when our heroes are destroying one of Dracula's havens, with some terriers brought along to fight off his rats:

The Professor was the first to move forward, and stepped into the open door. ‘In manus tuas, Domine!’ he said, crossing himself as he passed over the threshold.

...

The dogs dashed on, but at the threshold suddenly stopped and snarled, and then, simultaneously lifting their noses, began to howl in most lugubrious fashion.

 

[gunhilltrain]

That's not right. Dracula comes to England and inflicts horrors there, but Van Helsing and co. destroy his havens and drive him back to Transylvania before hunting him down and killing him in his old haunts.

BTW, I don't think 1 hour 33 minutes is the right time for the sunlight? scene you mention in Nosferatu - that's the end of the movie.

It's been fifty years I think since I read the book. I did a quick search and didn't read all the details again.

The only reason I mentioned Nosferatu is because somebody mentioned copyright violations. The movie is 102 years old; I think that's all moot now.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I remember Dracula needing to be invited inside by anyone. Dracula tryed to force Renfield to invite him into the sanatarium, "he came up to the window in the mist . . . but he was solid then . . . I wouldn't ask him to come in . . .".

Ah, thanks for that - I searched on "invite" and "inviting", which aren't used anywhere in the book, but I didn't think to look for "come in".

More from the scene you mention:

I wouldn’t ask him to come in at first, though I knew he wanted to, just as he had wanted all along. Then he began promising me things, not in words but by doing them.

[Dracula tempts Renfield with immortality and delicious bugs]

And then a red cloud, like the colour of blood, seemed to close over my eyes, and before I knew what I was doing, I found myself opening the sash and saying to Him, ‘Come in, Lord and Master!’ The rats were all gone, but He slid into the room through the sash, though it was only open an inch wide, just as the Moon herself has often come in through the tiniest crack and has stood before me in all her size and splendour.

Seems pretty clear here that an invitation gives Dracula power.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Yes, and yes, you are right that If you tell them to come in, you give them power as well. He also had to be carried on to and off of the boat. He can't walk or fly across water except at high tide. Not sure why that is so, but it is in Dracula, so it must be true.

 

[Bramblethorn]

As attested in my sig below, I've been working on a vampire story titled "Celtic Vampiress", for which I have nearly 30K words. Some of you have beta-read much of it, which I appreciate immensely. I read every work mentioned in this thread for research, but my true source material is much older: stories passed down through oral tradition, especially in Great Britain.

Does that include Varney, and if so, what did you think of it? It's the only one of those I haven't read; I'm curious, but the length is daunting.

I expect you've already come across Montague Summers if you've read all those others, but for others in the thread, his 1928-1929 books "The Vampire: His Kith and Kin" and "The Vampire in Europe" discuss a range of vampire folklore and myths.

I would not rely on Summers as an authority for serious academic research, particularly in his accounts of beliefs and customs beyond the British Isles. He was a rather peculiar character and I don't think his scholarship is considered particularly reliable. But there's plenty in there to inspire fictional vampires.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Both Mary and I have copies of Varney the Vampire. I can't remember how many chapters it is, like epic proportions, as it was a serialized, very long story—digital downloads from Gutenberg Press.

Does that include Varney, and if so, what did you think of it? It's the only one of those I haven't read; I'm curious, but the length is daunting.

I expect you've already come across Montague Summers if you've read all those others, but for others in the thread, his 1928-1929 books "The Vampire: His Kith and Kin" and "The Vampire in Europe" discuss a range of vampire folklore and myths.

I would not rely on Summers as an authority for serious academic research, particularly in his accounts of beliefs and customs beyond the British Isles. He was a rather peculiar character and I don't think his scholarship is considered particularly reliable. But there's plenty in there to inspire fictional vampires.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

The Vampire - Buffy Sainte Marie (Painting: The Vampire, Edvard Munch, 1893)

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Yes, and yes, you are right that If you tell them to come in, you give them power as well. He also had to be carried on to and off of the boat. He can't walk or fly across water except at high tide. Not sure why that is so, but it is in Dracula, so it must be true.

At high tide, the limen (threshold) is covered - in this case, the "half-acre between the salt water and the sea sand."

 

[MillieDynamite]

Has anyone written a vampire story where the woman is a vampire and a vamp?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yes, and yes, you are right that If you tell them to come in, you give them power as well. He also had to be carried on to and off of the boat. He can't walk or fly across water except at high tide. Not sure why that is so, but it is in Dracula, so it must be true.

"It is a truth universally acknowledged..." - wait, wrong book.

In meantime we may rest and in peace, for there are between us which he do not want to pass, and which he could not if he would. Unless the ship were to touch the land, and then only at full or slack tide.

...

He is close to land. He has left his earth chest. But he has yet to get on shore. In the night he may lie hidden somewhere, but if he be not carried on shore, or if the ship do not touch it, he cannot achieve the land. In such case he can, if it be in the night, change his form and jump or fly on shore, then, unless he be carried he cannot escape.

Water often acts as a natural boundary, which gets us back to thresholds. But the mention of slack tide - the time when the water's not flowing - makes me wonder about a connection to blood, where flow is related to life.

Both Mary and I have copies of Varney the Vampire. I can't remember how many chapters it is, like epic proportions, as it was a serialized, very long story—digital downloads from Gutenberg Press.

Wiki says somewhere over 600,000 words.

 

[MillieDynamite]

That sounds right. I've only read a little bit of it. My understanding is that Varney changes from a villain to a hero at some point in the story.

The protagonist and antagonist confuse readers and writers at times. Being the protagonist doesn't mean you're a hero. It means their actions move the story. And the antagonist isn't necessarily the villain. It means he, she, or it is against the protagonist. Their actions are designed to keep the protagonist from succeeding. Sorry, shouldn't be talking about that here I guess.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Has anyone written a vampire story where the woman is a vampire and a vamp?

The term "vamp" for a seductive woman was derived from "vampire." "Vamp" for the upper part of the shoe comes from Old French, and, perhaps, Norse, for "the front of the foot."

 

[MillieDynamite]

Well, some vampires can be vamps, and they have vamps on their shoes.

The term "vamp" for a seductive woman was derived from "vampire." "Vamp" for the upper part of the shoe comes from Old French, and, perhaps, Norse, for "the front of the foot."

 

[joy_of_cooking]

Has anyone written a vampire story where the woman is a vampire and a vamp?

Yes, though not published yet. It was inspired by @AWhoopsieDaisy 's joke about a vampire going down on a woman during her period.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Yes, though not published yet. It was inspired by @AWhoopsieDaisy 's joke about a vampire going down on a woman during her period.

Gives quite the literal meaning to "eating her out."

 

[StillStunned]

I don't know how vampish you want her, but Ilira in The Countesses of Tannensdal is pretty glamorous.

 

[KeithD]

Vampires are imaginary, so I set mine up as far as needs/capabilities to suit the story. Vampire seems ideal for a GM story. Don't know if others feel like they have to be restricted by some understood limitations on Vampire lore.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Well, Pilot, we do want our fiction to be truthful, don't we?