Well Dressed Men and Manners

[GoodReasons]

And a multitude of con artists, snake oil peddlers, and gigolos...

*gag* Also true... but you can always dream...

 

[teknight]

Some rules of etiquette never go out of fashion, such as, "A gentleman insures his fingernails are clean before inquiring about anal sex."

Before even asking?
Damn, you're strict!

 

[teknight]

As for the thread's OP:
-clothes as a means of achieving a persona? Step beyond that, don't depend on a piece of cloth, and be a gent' regardless of what you're wearing.
-manners? You should always be respectful, but holding on to an antiquated code of conduct does not necessarily mean you're respecting the other person (in this particular case, the woman.)
It's not the "show", it's the "go" that matters.

 

[MissTCShore]

Nothing is a bigger "turn on" for me than a guy who is handsome, well dressed and well mannered. I guess that's partly why I tend to have a "thing" for older guys. They are often more well behaved in public than younger guys. I can't count the times a guy dressed in baggy jeans and a dirty t-shirt comes up to me and says something to the effect of "Hey, wanna hang out, bitch?" Uh, yeah ... No. Or guys who are hanging out with their guy friends and use "fuck" every third or fourth word that comes out of their mouth.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no prude by any means. When a guy is fucking me, I want him to talk dirty to me. But there's a time and a place. I love it when I'm out with a polite, well-mannered gentleman, and he leans over and whispers something dirty in my ear so that nobody else can hear it .... like ... "I'd love to have my tongue in your pussy right now." It's out of character. You expect someone with a dirty mouth all the time to say that. You don't expect Mr. Polite to say it. That's part of the turn-on for me.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

Chivalry is hardly antiquated.

Truth
Loyalty
Courtesy
Justice
Courage
Mercy
Generosity
Nobility
Hope

Which of the above is antiquated?

I think every man possess a modicum of chivalry unless he is the lowest of the low and evil. There are many bad men but truly evil, only a handful. Maybe if men sought to live up to these standards the world would be a better place.

Truth - the foundation of manhood and chivalry. Dishonest men can never be trusted.

Loyalty - the basis of any good relationship.

Courtesy - provides the means of a healthy and meaningful relationship.

Justice - treating people fairly

Courage - the intestinal fortitude to make the sacrifice to undertake tasks and course of action that may not be popular yet do so because it is the right thing to do.

Mercy - forgiveness and kindness to those who have wrong him as everybody makes mistakes. A man lacking mercy is cruel and without value.

Generosity - Not just material things but giving of your time, attention and warmth of heart to those around you.

Nobility - Upholding your convictions and acting honorably even when nobody is around to see. Maintaining high standards of conduct without thought of personal gain.

Hope - an upbeat and positive attitude even in the face of tragedy and adversity in hopes of inspiring others.

Yes I see why there are those who think modern day chivalry is antiquated.

 

[teknight]

</snip>
Yes I see why there are those who think modern day chivalry is antiquated.

And why do you say that?
What's any of that got to do with manners- the specific behaviors you carry out 'cause the books of manners dictate that you do so.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

Nothing is a bigger "turn on" for me than a guy who is handsome, well dressed and well mannered. I guess that's partly why I tend to have a "thing" for older guys. They are often more well behaved in public than younger guys. I can't count the times a guy dressed in baggy jeans and a dirty t-shirt comes up to me and says something to the effect of "Hey, wanna hang out, bitch?" Uh, yeah ... No. Or guys who are hanging out with their guy friends and use "fuck" every third or fourth word that comes out of their mouth.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no prude by any means. When a guy is fucking me, I want him to talk dirty to me. But there's a time and a place. I love it when I'm out with a polite, well-mannered gentleman, and he leans over and whispers something dirty in my ear so that nobody else can hear it .... like ... "I'd love to have my tongue in your pussy right now." It's out of character. You expect someone with a dirty mouth all the time to say that. You don't expect Mr. Polite to say it. That's part of the turn-on for me.

I think you get me

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

Well, it would be fine if when people spoke of chivalry, that was what they meant.
And, in a way, thats very close to what they mean.
However, the general usage has this tendency to include the phrase "towards women".
Which, whether you think it is good or bad or indifferent, is by definition sexist.

I do not speak for women because I am obviously not one.

Sexist?

Oh please.

 

[teknight]

I do not speak for women because I am obviously not one.

Sexist?

Oh please.

Yeah, who needs to listen to women and what they're saying. Screw that it'd be respectful to acknowledge their concerns, not as women, but as human beings.

I gotta ask, and it's a cheap shot:
OP, you went to dinner with a woman...and you were watching other men? Isn't that at the very least rude?

 

[LindsayRae]

Secretly he's into men and that was the best part of dinner?

 

[teknight]

Secretly he's into men and that was the best part of dinner?

Now, see, we're being malicious, and bluster's cheap.

 

[LindsayRae]

So I should have asked him more about his fetish for taking "a women" out to dinner? This is, after all, the Fetish board and not the General board.

 

[teknight]

I feel that manners is not solely the idea of chivalry everyone else is addressing.

Treat others with respect and automatically you have manners. It's not all about the holding of doors, pulling out of chairs etc.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a feminist... I wish I could just be a housewife!

Chivalry has its place in flattery and general kindness but true manners are based on respect and responsibility.

That's what I'm talking about. Thank you for putting it so concisely and clearly.

 

[teknight]

Actually, wanting to be a housewife is not un-feminist.
At its core, feminism is about women getting treated like full human beings. Full human beings get to make choices about their lives. The choices you make are up to you.

Funny how that's not covered under "humanism." For the record, I'm not laughing.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

Yeah, who needs to listen to women and what they're saying. Screw that it'd be respectful to acknowledge their concerns, not as women, but as human beings.

I gotta ask, and it's a cheap shot:
OP, you went to dinner with a woman...and you were watching other men? Isn't that at the very least rude?

I watch everybody. It is my nature to be hyper vigilant and keen observation is what kept me alive in time of war.

I multitask. It is generally a characteristic of higher lifeforms so I understand your confusion.

One thing I have noticed is when a man attacks another man with derogatory mudslinging it is generally a response to feeling threatened. Your attempt at portraying yourself as a bad boy is laughable as I think your asshole would pucker at any real danger.

Please refrain from talking about courtesy and respect when you have shown very little. I am always down for discussion but not the puking passive/aggressive poorly veiled barbed insults you try to convey as discussion.

 

[teknight]

I watch everybody. It is my nature to be hyper vigilant and keen observation is what kept me alive in time of war.

I multitask. It is generally a characteristic of higher lifeforms so I understand your confusion.

One thing I have noticed is when a man attacks another man with derogatory mudslinging it is generally a response to feeling threatened. Your attempt at portraying yourself as a bad boy is laughable as I think your asshole would pucker at any real danger.

Please refrain from talking about courtesy and respect when you have shown very little. I am always down for discussion but not the puking passive/aggressive poorly veiled barbed insults you try to convey as discussion.

I admitted it as the cheap shot that it was, bluster man. I own up to my behavior.

Where under chivalry does it say that you get to fire back with cheap shots, insinuations, and disparaging remarks?
Doesn't that go against the following?

Nobility - Upholding your convictions and acting honorably even when nobody is around to see. Maintaining high standards of conduct without thought of personal gain.

Or are you just spouting words that sound good, 'cause you feel like showing off?
You're the one with the commandments and rules to follow. Not following them makes you look bad, regardless of how much of an asshole I've made of myself in replying to your posts. It makes you look worse than me, 'cause you claim the moral high ground ...and act in a shameful manner.

Also, man, lit's a place of free speech. I am fully within my rights to say most things, regardless of the effect on your ego.

Courtesy and respect? Those are nice words. Care to lead by example and live up to 'em? Or hide behind them and prove yourself lacking?

Now that I've insulted you and you me, can you answer the relevant question: how is dismissing a woman's concerns respectful?

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

Secretly he's into men and that was the best part of dinner?

Here is the thing. I do not consider anything wrong with being bisexual or gay. I do not judge a person by their sexual preference. However, your attempt at insulting a heterosexual man with accusations of homosexuality pushes back equality for those that are. If you thought there was nothing wrong with homosexuality it would not enter your mind to use the accusation as insult or injury.

Have you ever posted anything other than derisive bullshit on this board? I have yet so see it though I have only been here a short time.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

I admitted it as the cheap shot that it was, bluster man. I own up to my behavior.

Where under chivalry does it say that you get to fire back with cheap shots, insinuations, and disparaging remarks?
Doesn't that go against the following?

Or are you just spouting words that sound good, 'cause you feel like showing off?
You're the one with the commandments and rules to follow. Not following them makes you look bad, regardless of how much of an asshole I've made of myself in replying to your posts. It makes you look worse than me, 'cause you claim the moral high ground ...and act in a shameful manner.

Also, man, lit's a place of free speech. I am fully within my rights to say most things, regardless of the effect on your ego.

Courtesy and respect? Those are nice words. Care to lead by example and live up to 'em? Or hide behind them and prove yourself lacking?

Now that I've insulted you and you me, can you answer the relevant question: how is dismissing a woman's concerns respectful?

Well I do try to follow them as best I can but my name is not Jesus Christ so I'm not perfect by any meaning of the word. And to that I own up to. I am also prone to attacking when attacked yet I extend my hand in friendship once cooler heads prevail as Stella_Omega can attest.

Actually this thread has degenerated from my original intent which is partly my fault for not being clearer.

 

[LindsayRae]

Here is the thing. I do not consider anything wrong with being bisexual or gay. I do not judge a person by their sexual preference. However, your attempt at insulting a heterosexual man with accusations of homosexuality pushes back equality for those that are. If you thought there was nothing wrong with homosexuality it would not enter your mind to use the accusation as insult or injury.

There absolutely is nothing wrong with homosexuaity. I am half gay. (Despite my strong love for women, I just cannot give up that cock.) You are choosing to assume what you want from my words. Nothing more.

Have you ever posted anything other than derisive bullshit on this board? I have yet so see it though I have only been here a short time.

This is your opinion. Just as someone saying my posts are "vaulable" would be theirs. No more, no less. Thanks.

 

[teknight]

Well I do try to follow them as best I can but my name is not Jesus Christ so I'm not perfect by any meaning of the word. And to that I own up to. I am also prone to attacking when attacked yet I extend my hand in friendship once cooler heads prevail as Stella_Omega can attest.

Actually this thread has degenerated from my original intent which is partly my fault for not being clearer.

Right.
So, you're fallible, hence your actions are excusable, but I'm a prick for asking questions and thinking...and I'm the one who's supposed to chill for cooler heads to prevail?

Here's the thing about this medium we are currently sharing, VBM- words are easy to type up and post. Ideas can seem crystal clear in one's head, and prove to be full of holes once they're out in the open. Being written, it gives one a chance to analyze, and reanalyze and go over in some depth, which will usually reveal some discrepancies, anomalies, etc.

Ideals are hard to live up to...and aren't served by being shouted from the rooftops..err...servers, but by adherence to 'em.

Now, again, I'll admit to asking cheap shot questions 'cause I find the discrepancies entertaining. Does that make me a bad man? Maybe. I don't care.

Back to suits and manners: don't put on a persona if you ain't got it in you, or practice in the mirror til you've got it down pat.

 

[77817]

Well I do try to follow them as best I can but my name is not Jesus Christ so I'm not perfect by any meaning of the word. And to that I own up to. I am also prone to attacking when attacked yet I extend my hand in friendship once cooler heads prevail as Stella_Omega can attest.

Actually this thread has degenerated from my original intent which is partly my fault for not being clearer.

Right.
So, you're fallible, hence your actions are excusable, but I'm a prick for asking questions and thinking...and I'm the one who's supposed to chill for cooler heads to prevail?

Here's the thing about this medium we are currently sharing, VBM- words are easy to type up and post. Ideas can seem crystal clear in one's head, and prove to be full of holes once they're out in the open. Being written, it gives one a chance to analyze, and reanalyze and go over in some depth, which will usually reveal some discrepancies, anomalies, etc.

Ideals are hard to live up to...and aren't served by being shouted from the rooftops..err...servers, but by adherence to 'em.

Now, again, I'll admit to asking cheap shot questions 'cause I find the discrepancies entertaining. Does that make me a bad man? Maybe. I don't care.

Back to suits and manners: don't put on a persona if you ain't got it in you, or practice in the mirror til you've got it down pat.

Both of you.... just... *shakes head*

 

[77817]

I am half gay.

Uh huh. Yeah.

 

[teknight]

Both of you.... just... *shakes head*

You don't say.

OK. Enough threadjacking. For those that get aroused by well mannered suits, have fun, I'm unsubscribing.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

Right.
So, you're fallible, hence your actions are excusable, but I'm a prick for asking questions and thinking...and I'm the one who's supposed to chill for cooler heads to prevail?

Here's the thing about this medium we are currently sharing, VBM- words are easy to type up and post. Ideas can seem crystal clear in one's head, and prove to be full of holes once they're out in the open. Being written, it gives one a chance to analyze, and reanalyze and go over in some depth, which will usually reveal some discrepancies, anomalies, etc.

Ideals are hard to live up to...and aren't served by being shouted from the rooftops..err...servers, but by adherence to 'em.

Now, again, I'll admit to asking cheap shot questions 'cause I find the discrepancies entertaining. Does that make me a bad man? Maybe. I don't care.

Back to suits and manners: don't put on a persona if you ain't got it in you, or practice in the mirror til you've got it down pat.

The original fetish. Due to my career my particular fetish fits in just nicely. My life now generally consists of an airline pilot uniform or a suit and tie. Prior to my civilian career I was a Marine aviator which again is a uniform. On the exterior I always try to conduct myself as an officer and a gentleman yet beneath it all I am somewhat different. MissTCShore I believe stated it well what my aim was with my original post.

My apology for allowing this thread to mutate to something not intended but as you said free speech took it elsewhere. I was not necessarily stating that I live by any strict code yet I do try to be the best man I know how to be and the very ideals of chivalry in it's modern form I find very attractive.

As far as being a chauvinist which I am not sure if I was called one, my actions speak very loud. I trained women as fighter pilots and was one of the very vocal military officers fully supporting women being allowed in combat. I'm not sure I can be more feminist than that.

 

[LindsayRae]

Uh huh. Yeah.

I am. I'm a bisexual woman.