What does targeted, sweep-evading, story vandalism look like?

[EmilyMiller]

you are sitting there, refreshing (I guess) your screen and taking furious notes over and over? I just want to make sure I'm getting this right. You've not found a way to download the actual data - you are getting the same average score I get, just saving it every few seconds?

Not every few seconds, I said in low voting categories where you might get 15 votes in the first day. As I mostly get 5️s, I can often see a single 4️ stand out even in a group of votes. I know when the bad votes drop and tend to refresh more then.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I think many forget why this site is here. It's here for the owners ot make money. To that end, they need to balance keeping the readers and the authors happy enough to keep coming back with a minimum of effort on their part. It's a cost/benefit thing. And for clarity, this isn't a defense of the site management. It's just an honest appraisal of what is important to those who own this place. There are a lot of things I see that need to be changed here. But if it isn't going to benefit the owners, it probably will never be done.

Comshaw

You are correct. And despite what a bunch of people are going to rush to say since you brought this up. There is no indication that a majority of authors aren't satisfied with the system.

 

[EmilyMiller]

View attachment 2599887

And I’m meant to be the emotional one

 

[EmilyMiller]

Yup. If you write SF&F, for instance, you can generally count the number of votes on the fingers of four tentacles.

Same in Novels & Novellas, and while Anal has decent views, it has few votes.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Can y’all slow down just a bit, I need to make another bowl of popcorn.

 

[metropolinational]

Not every few seconds, I said in low voting categories where you might get 15 votes in the first day. As I mostly get 5️s, I can often see a single 4️ stand out even in a group of votes. I know when the bad votes drop and tend to refresh more then.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it. This is very clear to me now.

What you do would be impossible in LW. Further, for me, I get hit with 20 or so 1s in the first few hours. My scores often start in the 1.5 to 2 range overnight.

 

[EmilyMiller]

What you do would be impossible in LW.

Yes. I even say that above. It isn’t really feasible in Romance either. Lower views than LW but a lot of votes. I say that above as well.

 

[metropolinational]

Yes. I even say that above. It’s. It really feasible in Romance either. Lower views than LW but a lot of votes. I say that above as well.

You are correct. The eye sees what the mind can understand. I was reading your posts looking for you to describe some sort of API that would give you access to some data stream. Now that I understand what you actually do, I see you had actually already explained it. Thanks for doing so again!

 

[Kelliezgirl]

So, we're supposed to believe that OP is being targeted by some sophisticated troll who is using bots to drive their ratings down, yet they still have dozens of stories with red Hs.
What sense would it make for this troll not to bomb the whole catalog? Why restrict themselves to just certain stories?

 

[Comshaw]

you are sitting there, refreshing (I guess) your screen and taking furious notes over and over? I just want to make sure I'm getting this right. You've not found a way to download the actual data - you are getting the same average score I get, just saving it every few seconds?

And if you aren't doing that manually, how are you doing it?
Edited to add: So you're talking specifically about a low vote category. You sit there refreshing your screen until a vote comes in? Or do the calculations with only a few votes added? Okay, I can see how that would work. I can't imagine doing it. That's what was so confusing to me.

Comshaw

 

[metropolinational]

And if you aren't doing that manually, how are you doing it?

I'm not. I was excited that maybe there was a way, but I guess there isn't. I've pretty much stopped thinking about scores at all. I only keep the scores on in my stories in the hopes that someday in the future, LE will provide us useful ways to visualize them.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

And if you aren't doing that manually, how are you doing it?

Comshaw

And if you don't manage to refresh between every vote, then you are just guessing. There's no way to determine if 2 votes totalling 6 points is a 1 and 5, pair of 3s, or 4 and 2.

 

[Comshaw]

Same in Novels & Novellas, and while Anal has decent views, it has few votes.

Anal has few votes? I have a story there I submitted in September last year with 360 votes. That is more votes than one I have in Reluctance/Nonconsent (206 votes) and has the same score, but was published in 2020. Am I missing something? Or is it an anomaly?

Comshaw

 

[Jorunn]

Why? Really? Does this matter? But it really does.

Established authors hanging out here are aware of the problems. They may choose whether to continue writing.

Newer authors and the unaware can become frustrated. With artificially lowered scores, they get fewer reads and less reader engagement. (You can apply unexplained AI rejections here too).

Does it matter? Lit is losing talented (and potentially talented) authors. Yell Bah Humbug if you wish, and claim there is no Ebenezer Scrooge sitting at his keyboard, but over time, the loss of talented writers will turn into a loss of readers. And a loss of readers will turn into a loss of Lit.

 

[Comshaw]

I'm not. I was excited that maybe there was a way, but I guess there isn't. I've pretty much stopped thinking about scores at all. I only keep the scores on in my stories in the hopes that someday in the future, LE will provide us useful ways to visualize them.

Sorry, that was aimed at the OP. At the time I wasn't able to visualize how she was doing it. I assumed (bad of me I know) that she was talking about one of the higher vote count categories and I just couldn't see how it would work without some kind of magical program to automatically keep count of and record the end score each and every time it changed.

Comshaw

 

[Comshaw]

Why? Really? Does this matter? But it really does.

Established authors hanging out here are aware of the problems. They may choose whether to continue writing.

Newer authors and the unaware can become frustrated. With artificially lowered scores, they get fewer reads and less reader engagement. (You can apply unexplained AI rejections here too).

Does it matter? Lit is losing talented (and potentially talented) authors. Yell Bah Humbug if you wish, and claim there is no Ebenezer Scrooge sitting at his keyboard, but over time, the loss of talented writers will turn into a loss of readers. And a loss of readers will turn into a loss of Lit.

No, it won't. Why? Because for every talented author that leaves, another new talent arrives and builds a following.

Comshaw

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Why? Really? Does this matter? But it really does.

Established authors hanging out here are aware of the problems. They may choose whether to continue writing.

Newer authors and the unaware can become frustrated. With artificially lowered scores, they get fewer reads and less reader engagement. (You can apply unexplained AI rejections here too).

Does it matter? Lit is losing talented (and potentially talented) authors. Yell Bah Humbug if you wish, and claim there is no Ebenezer Scrooge sitting at his keyboard, but over time, the loss of talented writers will turn into a loss of readers. And a loss of readers will turn into a loss of Lit.

There is no evidence to back that up. We don't know if it's widespread, targeted, rare, common... any of that. We can't even corroborate the claims of people who say they are being victimized.

Plus, we constantly argue the other side around here, that scores are actually artificially high. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

No, it won't. Why? Because for every talented author that leaves, another new talent arrives and builds a following.

Comshaw

 

[millamomud]

someone's working his way through my clara series, bringing it down chapter by chapter, it's kinda sad seeing more and more stories losing that red H.

But then again, I try to remind myself there's more important things to care about.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Why? Really? Does this matter? But it really does.

Established authors hanging out here are aware of the problems. They may choose whether to continue writing.

Newer authors and the unaware can become frustrated. With artificially lowered scores, they get fewer reads and less reader engagement. (You can apply unexplained AI rejections here too).

If you are discouraged from writing or lose inspiration or even quit over scores, that means that you are writing for scores. If you are writing for scores, then you are not telling stories from your heart as much as you are telling stories from your ego and those stories are generally not as good, or at least tend to be formulaic and crowd-pandering. If you have a passion for writing, the scores won't slow you down at all. If they do, even a little, then you can tell where your true motivation lies.

 

[SkyBubble]

Because for every talented author that leaves, another new talent arrives and builds a following.

Where do you get the data to support that?

 

[Jorunn]

If you are discouraged from writing or lose inspiration or even quit over scores, that means that you are writing for scores. If you are writing for scores, then you are not telling stories from your heart as much as you are telling stories from your ego and those stories are generally not as good, or at least tend to be formulaic and crowd-pandering. If you have a passion for writing, the scores won't slow you down at all. If they do, even a little, then you can tell where your true motivation lies.

I won’t argue this, hence my claim is that established authors are aware and have a choice. But you must accept that there are authors who no longer submit stories here. And there are plenty of threads and discussion about alternative sites. And plenty of threads like this one. You cannot deny their existence.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Where do you get the data to support that?

Same place they got the data that the scoring system is causing all these talented authors to leave.
The plural of anecdote isn't evidence.

 

[SkyBubble]

True, and those authors often just stop writing her but leave their content up instead of deleting it. So they still count as "active" Literotica members and writers even if they haven't published here for years.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I won’t argue this, hence my claim is that established authors are aware and have a choice. But you must accept that there are authors who no longer submit stories here. And there are plenty of threads and discussion about alternative sites. And plenty of threads like this one. You cannot deny their existence.

Scroll through the authors list sometime. This place has always churned through authors for a variety of reasons. There isn't any evidence that the fact that a few people who are upset with the scoring system (and read old threads, talk to the old timers. people have been arguing and complaining about the scoring system for years. We've got some folks with an axe to grind who want to constantly bring it up, but that isn't indicative of the author population as a whole.
Just look at this thread. There are more people saying "get over it" then there are bemoaning the "crisis". That should tell you something.