What is love?

[Kajira Callista]

I find it vaguely amusing that someone who claims to be an atheist and that bible stuff makes them ill has mention of Heaven in their sig line.


Anyway.

If you're looking for unconditional love... get a dog.

Humans always have conditions on their love, including you, monsieur loup.

Suck it up. Get used to your limitations, and do the best you can.

That's what love has always meant to me. Doing the best I can for someone I love, and trusting that when I fail, they will forgive me because of that love.

uhmmm...i dunno what love is




































i'm just following sunfox around

 

[jasonlf]

Aren't most "one Lord and Master + obedient flock" religions just a study in D/s power dynamics??

After all it's no secret that a lot of subs/slaves go in search of the spirtual to find what it is they are lacking....a father figure, a Master, a Dominant...(only using male terms here for brevity)? I couldn't tell you the number of times I tried to find god before I found Him...

Yes, yes they are.

Read some of my other posts about it

 

[timberwolf05]

okay

No human can have 100% unconditional love.

Sometimes it'd be nice to find someone who tried to be a little less self-centered though.

-------------
i'm buying this one.. thanks

 

[timberwolf05]

sunfox?

If you're looking for unconditional love... get a dog.

Humans always have conditions on their love, including you, monsieur loup.

Suck it up. Get used to your limitations, and do the best you can.

-----------
get a dog? hmmm interesting. but as long as you agree humans have conditions i feel vindicated. thank you.

 

[Private_Label]

LOL, I love the @tainted, although for some strange reason whenever I read it, it always makes me feel like I am at work.

By gushy vs. tangible do you mean gushy like romantic love and tangible like the love you might have for a beloved grandparent?

Tangible love for me would be something like what I have with my mother and brother. We can get mad at each other and yell and be angry, but in the end I would still do anything to protect them and help them if they were in danger, and I know deep down that they would do the same for me (I can't say that about ALL my family members) - It is a quality that I am looking for when/if I get seriously involved with someone who wants to be seriously involved with me.

I may not tell my mother every detail of my life, but I know that if I do do something that is a major screw up, she may (ok will) yell & lecture me about it, but she will not throw me out of her home. To some extent, you could say we have a relationship in that, no matte rhow much we verbally punish each other, we are in for the long haul and not just a weekend fling. To me, that is unconditional love, that no matter what happens, no matter what is said, you will still be there for each other. It goes for romantic partners as well as for families and friends. At least for me.

 

[shy slave]

grace9 said 'Love is perfect'

I also like the Corinthians view of love.

To me there are differing kinds of love which are expressed in different ways.
This makes sense to me because althou I accept that love is 'perfect' people are not and what does the word 'perfect' mean?

Like 'love' it means different things to different people.

Love sets us free, it allows us to be the person we truely are not the person we feel we should be.

God (or whomever) & dogs give unconditional love.

I would not want unconditional love from the people in my life.

How would I learn, grow, develop, support others, care for others and empathise with them if everything I did and said was viewed equally ~Good & Bad.

Everyone has had times in their lives when they have learnt lessons from experiences, some of those experiences teach us how to love ourselves and love others.

Sometimes its very hard to love yourself and accept who and what you are.

Love has the capacity to chain us to beliefs, morals and ideals and set us free from them.

It has endless capacity to nuture and heal allowing us to remember past loves with affection and look to the future without destroying what was.

Love allows you to accept yourself and in doing so accept and love others.

 

[jasonlf]

How would I learn, grow, develop, support others, care for others and empathise with them if everything I did and said was viewed equally ~Good & Bad.

You're assuming that unconditional love means letting you fuckup without telling you.

Quite the contrary, true love includes hurting the person you love for their good.

 

[grace9]

Thinking about this more...

This topic got me thinking about the unconditional love experiences I've had and what makes them different. I don't think unconditional love is so dissimilar from any other love we know/express. The "love" (deep feelings, sharing, expression, giving etc) is basically the same. But to make it unconditional it includes forgiveness. Not the casual "It's okay"....or..."I forgive you...".....followed by behaviors, thoughts or quiet resentments that say otherwise. But deeeep down, truly mean it....forgiveness. That was what made it delve to a new level in my experience....the forgiveness....when love can survive pretty crappy things and surmount them. Not that one has to be a doormat or allow horrid things and stay....unconditional also includes "loving -- from a distance" if it is not healthy for you.

It's hard to do sometimes...but hey....It's unconditional not "hassle-free".

G~

 

[timberwolf05]

without?

You're assuming that unconditional love means letting you fuckup without telling you.

Quite the contrary, true love includes hurting the person you love for their good.

-------------------------

actually? yes sir. it IS what i mean. "I" do not, stick my nose into someone else's life and throw my values down their throat.

i am not one to be that way. that is one my personal morals. it is last i heard a free country.

just my views.
thanks

 

[jasonlf]

-------------------------

actually? yes sir. it IS what i mean. "I" do not, stick my nose into someone else's life and throw my values down their throat.

i am not one to be that way. that is one my personal morals. it is last i heard a free country.

just my views.
thanks

Ah.

So are you saying, if you had a friend who was, say, addicted to cocaine, you wouldn't tell them that was hurting them, adn they needed to stop, even if it'd hurt them?

 

[subkitten]

This topic got me thinking about the unconditional love experiences I've had and what makes them different. I don't think unconditional love is so dissimilar from any other love we know/express. The "love" (deep feelings, sharing, expression, giving etc) is basically the same. But to make it unconditional it includes forgiveness. Not the casual "It's okay"....or..."I forgive you...".....followed by behaviors, thoughts or quiet resentments that say otherwise. But deeeep down, truly mean it....forgiveness. That was what made it delve to a new level in my experience....the forgiveness....when love can survive pretty crappy things and surmount them. Not that one has to be a doormat or allow horrid things and stay....unconditional also includes "loving -- from a distance" if it is not healthy for you.

It's hard to do sometimes...but hey....It's unconditional not "hassle-free".

G~

Unconditional love requires that the love be given purely for the sake of loving. The love must be given without concern for ourself as the giver, and without concern for the receiver. That, by definition is unconditional love. Love without 'catches'...a pure and untarnished gift.

It cannot exist as we are humans and can never be truly self-less, nor can we give something without expecting something in return, whether it be something tangible received as thanks at a later date or the pleasure of the receiver of the gift. We expect, no, demand something in return by our human nature.

This I believe... a for Gracie

 

[shy slave]

Ah.

So are you saying, if you had a friend who was, say, addicted to cocaine, you wouldn't tell them that was hurting them, adn they needed to stop, even if it'd hurt them?

Whether you tell them is not the issue,

Hearing it will only hurt them briefly, they hurt themselves far more effectively than anything anyone can say or do.

Being there for them regardless of the impact on your own circumstances and life path is an issue.
Putting them before yourself and others in your life is unconditional love; sometimes its just not possible to go the whole way with that person regardless of how much you want to.

Life is not that simple.

 

[timberwolf05]

correct

Ah.

So are you saying, if you had a friend who was, say, addicted to cocaine, you wouldn't tell them that was hurting them, adn they needed to stop, even if it'd hurt them?

i know one now, makes, uses, sells, crack. but he is not going to listen to anyone.

so yes,.......that is, correct. i do not stick my nose in.

sorry if i hurt your feelings. it IS a free country and he IS 30 something. not my job to babysit him. i have talked til my face is blue. i am done talking to him.

 

[Marquis]

I think CS Lewis' The Four Loves provides the best definition of love I've ever come across.

 

[shy slave]

I think CS Lewis' The Four Loves provides the best definition of love I've ever come across.

I am not familiar with that.
Could you quote it or give the condensed version.
Or is there a web link to it.
Thanks

Edit to add found a weblink to The Four Loves
http://www*****goeson.net/MonkeyShines/4loves.htm

Glad you mentioned it Marquis its interesting reading

 

[Marquis]

I am not familiar with that.
Could you quote it or give the condensed version.
Or is there a web link to it.
Thanks

The Four Loves

It's a short book. I think I remember seeing it transcribed online once, but I can't remember where.

 

[Gallant Man]

Love is complex

Love is complex.
This discussion below has been circulating on the net for some time and it obviously has Bible references which I believe is the primary source. One does not have to agree with it all, but I believe it offers some deep insight and fundamental truths:

Epithymia is never translated "love" yet it is an important part of love. It means a strong desire of any kind or to long for or even covet. When translated in a negative way, it is the equivalent of lust. Within marriage, epithymia means the strong sexual desire a couple has that results in sexual intercourse.

Eros is sensual love. It means devoted to or arousing sexual desire. To feel eros is to be strongly affected by sexual desire. It can be controlled and positive, or uncontrolled and sinful. It is the desire to unite with and possess the loved one. The English word erotic is derived from the word eros. Whereas erotic love is important within marriage, outside of marriage erotic love engenders neither the commitment not the staying power needed to hold a relationship together. It is based solely on intense physical feelings. Feelings of eros can be selfish and self-serving.

Phileo is friendship love, a type of love that should have high priority in a marriage and long before. It means companionship, communication, cooperation, and pure enjoyment in being with someone called "friend." Thoughts, attitudes, experiences, feelings, and dreams are shared through phileo love. It cherishes and enjoys the presence of the other.

Agape love, the highest type of love expressed in the Bible, values and serves the loved one. It loves the unlovable. It keeps erotic love alive and possesses the power to rekindle what has died. It is an act of the will not based on feelings. Agape love is a deep reservoir that provides stability even during times of stress and conflict. It is perhaps by God's love for us as exemplified in John 3:16. Agape love originates from God, not from within us. Agape love costs. God models this love throughout Scripture. It is an art that may take a lifetime to learn.

Genuine love has a bit of all five types of love in it but is dominated by agape love. To experience this kind of love, you have to risk being rejected or feeling unloved. It means wanting the best for your loved one even if the best opposes your personal wishes. Love means encouraging and supporting each others dreams even if it costs you something. It means wanting your partner to achieve and become all he can be even if it becomes threatening to you. Love also means giving security when it is needed and as well as space when privacy is desired.

This kind of love is God’s creative gift to us and can be enjoyed to its fullest only within the safety and security of marriage. We are only able to love because He first loved us. It is through his love that we are freed from the hurt of past relationships and are willing to risk loving again. Through Him we no longer need to be dominated by rejection and failure.

Even genuine love changes over the years. The intense love you feel for someone now can grow stale or intensify. That's the way love is. It is fragile and needs constant nourishment to flourish. But also remember that in genuine love there's a good measure of agape love, which creates a God like ability to love even when we are not loved in return.

 

[jasonlf]

Love is complex.
This discussion below has been circulating on the net for some time and it obviously has Bible references which I believe is the primary source. One does not have to agree with it all, but I believe it offers some deep insight and fundamental truths:

Epithymia is never translated "love" yet it is an important part of love. It means a strong desire of any kind or to long for or even covet. When translated in a negative way, it is the equivalent of lust. Within marriage, epithymia means the strong sexual desire a couple has that results in sexual intercourse.

Eros is sensual love. It means devoted to or arousing sexual desire. To feel eros is to be strongly affected by sexual desire. It can be controlled and positive, or uncontrolled and sinful. It is the desire to unite with and possess the loved one. The English word erotic is derived from the word eros. Whereas erotic love is important within marriage, outside of marriage erotic love engenders neither the commitment not the staying power needed to hold a relationship together. It is based solely on intense physical feelings. Feelings of eros can be selfish and self-serving.

Phileo is friendship love, a type of love that should have high priority in a marriage and long before. It means companionship, communication, cooperation, and pure enjoyment in being with someone called "friend." Thoughts, attitudes, experiences, feelings, and dreams are shared through phileo love. It cherishes and enjoys the presence of the other.

Agape love, the highest type of love expressed in the Bible, values and serves the loved one. It loves the unlovable. It keeps erotic love alive and possesses the power to rekindle what has died. It is an act of the will not based on feelings. Agape love is a deep reservoir that provides stability even during times of stress and conflict. It is perhaps by God's love for us as exemplified in John 3:16. Agape love originates from God, not from within us. Agape love costs. God models this love throughout Scripture. It is an art that may take a lifetime to learn.

Genuine love has a bit of all five types of love in it but is dominated by agape love. To experience this kind of love, you have to risk being rejected or feeling unloved. It means wanting the best for your loved one even if the best opposes your personal wishes. Love means encouraging and supporting each others dreams even if it costs you something. It means wanting your partner to achieve and become all he can be even if it becomes threatening to you. Love also means giving security when it is needed and as well as space when privacy is desired.

This kind of love is God’s creative gift to us and can be enjoyed to its fullest only within the safety and security of marriage. We are only able to love because He first loved us. It is through his love that we are freed from the hurt of past relationships and are willing to risk loving again. Through Him we no longer need to be dominated by rejection and failure.

Even genuine love changes over the years. The intense love you feel for someone now can grow stale or intensify. That's the way love is. It is fragile and needs constant nourishment to flourish. But also remember that in genuine love there's a good measure of agape love, which creates a God like ability to love even when we are not loved in return.

That is sexcellent. It's going in a text file on my hard drive.

lovely.

 

[Marquis]

Jason, I just want to say that you're doing the right thing. You ask the right questions and I believe you are headed in the right direction. I'm hardly old enough to see much ahead of you, but few your age care to seek this kind of knowledge.

 

[graceanne]

The Four Loves

It's a short book. I think I remember seeing it transcribed online once, but I can't remember where.

I gotta agree. CS Lewis rocks. I personally liked his 'screwtape letters' best.

 

[timberwolf05]

simple?

Whether you tell them is not the issue,

Hearing it will only hurt them briefly, they hurt themselves far more effectively than anything anyone can say or do.

Being there for them regardless of the impact on your own circumstances and life path is an issue.
Putting them before yourself and others in your life is unconditional love; sometimes its just not possible to go the whole way with that person regardless of how much you want to.

Life is not that simple.

-----------------------------------------------------

ok...you were not talking to me here, i get that.
problem is though, for me personally? SERIOUSLY here...if "I" go sticking my nose in too far with this dude i know, i know damn well he will just reach up, grab his sawed off, and tell me to get out. so i don't talk to him anymore. so uh, for me? it kinda is real simple, ya know?
the dude is not all-there, so i just stay clear of him.

take care.

 

[jasonlf]

Jason, I just want to say that you're doing the right thing. You ask the right questions and I believe you are headed in the right direction. I'm hardly old enough to see much ahead of you, but few your age care to seek this kind of knowledge.

Knowledge is power

*the more you know*
</nbc>

 

[shy slave]

-----------------------------------------------------

ok...you were not talking to me here, i get that.
problem is though, for me personally? SERIOUSLY here...if "I" go sticking my nose in too far with this dude i know, i know damn well he will just reach up, grab his sawed off, and tell me to get out. so i don't talk to him anymore. so uh, for me? it kinda is real simple, ya know?
the dude is not all-there, so i just stay clear of him.

take care.

Staying clear sounds like good plan.

Look after yourself
x

 

[nusubgurl]

On Love

the definition of love i most identify is from Robert Heinlein, and is especially relevant to the Dom/sub relationship:

Love is when the well-being of another is essential to your own well-being.

I want my Master to have that in His heart.. as i already carry it in my for Him, wherever He is.

I can't be happy in my wholeness, without someone to serve. I can make do with friends, charity, etc. but the giving that i need to do to satisfy my soul can only be given to a Man.

 

[bronntanas]

What does the word love mean to you?


That's what love means to me. What does it mean to you?

I'm still sort of just a kid, so I don't have a real set in stone idea. But, I did see a good example the other day. So, with permission, I'm quoting Crownie's Beloved Button Babe off another site.

I knew a sexy servicewoman when I lived at home. She knew my family and she knew me and part of the reason I settled where I did when I first moved was because of her. We saw each other socially a lot, and through her, I wandered into the bdsm world and met lots of wonderfully perverse, er diverse people. I had a fearsome crush on her. We became lovers for a brief time, and played together a bit on a bdsm basis. We parted as friends, and we still keep in touch. But. I was sure I was in love with her. I was so damned sure of it. I cried myself to sleep some nights because she was completely oblivious to it. I watched her go from lover to lover and friend to friend and so wanted it to be me! I wanted her to love me as I loved her. As time went on she settled down with one girl. I was insanely jealous, but I kept it to myself. The young lady even gave me some ammonition to use, when she cheated on my friend, and I found out about it. I could have told my friend. I could have split them up, rode in like the calvary and picked up my friend on the rebound and convinced her that I was her One True Love and all others paled beside me. But again, I did nothing. Why?

Because I am a grown up.

Because I knew that I could not make my friend happy in the long run, and by God, I wanted her to be happy. Even if it was not with me.

Because in the end, I loved her enough to let her go.

Edited for a minor typo and some identifying info. Edited and re-posted with her permission