What to do when the Majority can't handle a Minority of One

[BLoved]

Pictures, or it didn't happen.

Well, if I'm not Wulf then all of your effort to smear me with that name is in vain.

~smile~

Which is it going to be?

And while we're on the subject of persecution ... it is open season on me in the BDSM Personals forum:

I hate to be a stick in the mud about Bloved, but there is a bit of information those who talk here might need to know. Primarily, he's a troll.

He has at least one topic introducing his views and choosing to belittle anyone who disagrees, one topic he's actually started to take such behavior into his own hands, and one more he started making himself into the victim of a mob that was dead set against him from the start.

While I'm not here to ridicule his last relationship breaking up, it pretty much took one good night's sleep for him to be over it and back on his merry way of trolling.

This exact same behavior has been exhibited on Fetlife as well, links provided within the topics above if you're curious. Therefore, while I'm not here to soil his name, I am making one clear warning to anyone who seriously considers this topic. If a person's online behavior is any testament to their real life behavior, look at what you have to expect before considering. A troll who preaches a good message is still a troll.

Disclaimer: I do not hate Bloved, or dislike him as a person in any way, simply because I only know the online persona "Bloved" and not the actual person. However, his behavior in the BDSM section of the website has been disruptive, at best. This post is strictly to warn potentials considering him that if his online behavior is to match his real life, then research on the matter is a must. If he happens to be everything in this topic's original post, more power to you & him and we'll all be happy. The reason for this post is to educate, and for those who believe the past is to repeat itself, protect.

 

[eastern sun]

TPE predates the hell out of the internet, as evidenced by an established M/s subculture in gay leather, with documents and a whole stinking Chicago based archive to prove that B is talking out his ass when he's claiming Jacobs invented this wheel.

Submission as Gift has been crapping up the internet for as long as there's been SM discussion on it. Maybe Wulf IS the progenitor, but for someone who says that TPE began with JJ - I doubt it highly.

Growing up in the San Francisco Bay Area, I've known that TPE was part of the gay leather scene since I was a teenager. But any idea when it became contract-based in M/f relationships? I'm thinking it would have had to be post-feminism, don't you think (i.e. 1980's)?

 

[Seurat]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/somerandomcrap/Kittens/kittens.jpg

Aw, that's so cute. Now, what were we talking about?

 

[where]

it's annoying to be asked to expand and then to be ignored.

 

[BLoved]

No and no.

TPE predates the hell out of the internet, as evidenced by an established M/s subculture in gay leather, with documents and a whole stinking Chicago based archive to prove that B is talking out his ass when he's claiming Jacobs invented this wheel.

Submission as Gift has been crapping up the internet for as long as there's been SM discussion on it. Maybe Wulf IS the progenitor, but for someone who says that TPE began with JJ - I doubt it highly.

Read 'em and weep:

Total Power Exchange - Wikipedia

Jon Jacobs - Wikipedia

 

[Netzach]

Growing up in the San Francisco Bay Area, I've known that TPE was part of the gay leather scene since I was a teenager. But any idea when it became contract-based in M/f relationships? I'm thinking it would have had to be post-feminism, don't you think (i.e. 1980's)?

I don't know much about the M/f scene early history - few do, because there's a lot of myth and BS circulated as truth on the 'net and there aren't documents of that scene to the extent that the queer and F/m scene documented themselves- but I do know that the pro and pro-amateur world of contact magazines for F/m had some pretty extreme situations in it, and that M/f exchanges were on the periphery of that hetero fetish scene. H *definitely* observed male masters with a taste for the female - with or without pussy, c. early 80's.

Most of what we recognize came "of age" in the 80's. There were some people who were key in pansexualizing the very sex-segregated scene around then (Cynthia Slater in the 70's) and I imagine M/f couples flitted around in there.

The fringe nature of the scene at that point kind of emphasized the intensity of need burning in the people who found it, and I imagine those early couples were pretty TPE-ish or hard SM in their orientations.

 

[BLoved]

Growing up in the San Francisco Bay Area, I've known that TPE was part of the gay leather scene since I was a teenager. But any idea when it became contract-based in M/f relationships? I'm thinking it would have had to be post-feminism, don't you think (i.e. 1980's)?

I believe you are thinking of "power exchange".

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_exchange_(BDSM)]Power Exchange - Wikipedia[/url]

TPE was Jon's idea.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, if I'm not Wulf then all of your effort to smear me with that name is in vain.

~smile~

Which is it going to be?

You are certainly the nutbar known as Wulf. whether or not you are the progenitor of "sub as gift" is what I'm doubting.

And while we're on the subject of persecution ... it is open season on me in the BDSM Personals forum:

Aren't you a whining little nelly! A pitiful pearl! A damsel in distress!

 

[Netzach]

I believe you are thinking of "power exchange".

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_exchange_(BDSM)]Power Exchange - Wikipedia[/url]

TPE was Jon's idea.

This is like saying kleenex (tm) is the origin of the snot rag. Dream on.

I don't need to "read 'em and weep" wikipedia on Leather - this is another situation in which I run around on girders and you play Donkey Kong and THINK you do.

 

[eastern sun]

I'm interested in the "historical" dimension of this discussion.

A lot of people have wondered where the idea of submission as "a gift" came from, with the new kind of power it offers to submissives.

Is Wulf really the Father of "the Gift"?

Is Jon Jacobs really considered the Father of TPE?

If not, how did these ideas evolve? Are they purely a product of this internet culture?

"Different Loving" was published in 1993, and is recognized (at least by some) as the first book to pull together the various strands of BDSM into one identifiable sub-culture.

That certainly wouldn't qualify Jon Jacobs as Father of TPE, but would give him an air of authority on the subject.

What happened in those early conversations? Was he Bloved in his time?

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

And while we're on the subject of persecution ... it is open season on me in the BDSM Personals forum:

I hate to disagree. That does not read like persecution to me. It reads like someone involved in the community giving new people a heads up on something they see as worrying. It wasn't done behind your back in a snarky way nor did the person post anything besides links to things you yourself have posted.

 

[where]

if I had known he could use wiki, he could have looked up what I was talking about himself...

 

[BLoved]

So you are viewing what you call abuse as false consciousness on the part of the subs in the casual bdsm scene in the same way that the 'nillas call abuse as false consciousness on the ~whole~ bdsm scene, your version included.

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying that those who are dysfunctional are also in denial about their dysfunctional behaviour.

They deny they are abusive by blaming their victim for the need to abuse.

There is never a need to abuse.

However, if they acknowledged that fact, they'd have to recognize they are abusive, and that is too much for their ego (bloated so as to disguise their low self-esteem and insecure need for approval from opponents).

 

[BLoved]

if I had known he could use wiki, he could have looked up what I was talking about himself...

I did. I decided to have you spell out the way in which you were applying it to bdsm.

 

[BLoved]

I hate to disagree. That does not read like persecution to me. It reads like someone involved in the community giving new people a heads up on something they see as worrying. It wasn't done behind your back in a snarky way nor did the person post anything besides links to things you yourself have posted.

In other words: persecution.

 

[where]

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying that those who are dysfunctional are also in denial about their dysfunctional behaviour.

They deny they are abusive by blaming their victim for the need to abuse.

There is never a need to abuse.

However, if they acknowledged that fact, they'd have to recognize they are abusive, and that is too much for their ego (bloated so as to disguise their low self-esteem and insecure need for approval from opponents).

but by being in a bdsm relationship, you are by definition being abusive, especially if you are doing the whole TPE/ M/s 24/7 thing. you, as a person who practices bdsm, are dysfunctional and in denial.

 

[eastern sun]

I believe you are thinking of "power exchange".

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_exchange_(BDSM)]Power Exchange - Wikipedia[/url]

TPE was Jon's idea.

Actually, I always heard it referred to as M/s and s/m (sado-masochism), back in the day. I only came across the term TPE on the internet.

 

[Netzach]

For anyone who's interested in BDSM on this planet, I recommend this
http://www.americanfetish.net/sexresearch.us/Dissertation.html

And Diff Loving, while an important book, is not what I would consider the only or most scholarly.

 

[Stella_Omega]

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying that those who are dysfunctional are also in denial about their dysfunctional behaviour.

They deny they are abusive by blaming their victim for the need to abuse.

There is never a need to abuse.

However, if they acknowledged that fact, they'd have to recognize they are abusive, and that is too much for their ego (bloated so as to disguise their low self-esteem and insecure need for approval from opponents).

And when people point out that they should recognise that they might be abusive-- they cal those people 'opponents.

And when that potential is obvious to a lot of people, and we find it's been commented on for fifteen years and counting, the 'opponents' become 'persecutors'

Yeah. We can see all of that.

 

[BLoved]

This is like saying kleenex (tm) is the origin of the snot rag. Dream on.

I don't need to "read 'em and weep" wikipedia on Leather - this is another situation in which I run around on girders and you play Donkey Kong and THINK you do.

And where were you when we were arguing TPE, Netzach?

 

[BLoved]

For anyone who's interested in BDSM on this planet, I recommend this
http://www.americanfetish.net/sexresearch.us/Dissertation.html

And Diff Loving, while an important book, is not what I would consider the only or most scholarly.

It was very helpful if you were exploring bdsm in '93.

 

[eastern sun]

For anyone who's interested in BDSM on this planet, I recommend this
http://www.americanfetish.net/sexresearch.us/Dissertation.html

And Diff Loving, while an important book, is not what I would consider the only or most scholarly.

Thanks, Netzach. I am interested.

I admit to being a Polly Peachum - "Violence in the Garden," submissivewomenspeak - fan. It has undoubtably colored my perspective.

 

[Netzach]

Thanks, Netzach. I am interested.

I admit to being a Polly Peachum - "Violence in the Garden," submissivewomenspeak - fan. It has undoubtably colored my perspective.

It's a hell of an essay, I grant that. At the end of the day, though, I still feel like fetishizing male power over women is like having a socks-go-on-my-feet! fetish. No one's who's disapproving has life and death power over you for the most part, and the culture is still wired to normalize a lot of your kink.

 

[BLoved]

but by being in a bdsm relationship, you are by definition being abusive, especially if you are doing the whole TPE/ M/s 24/7 thing. you, as a person who practices bdsm, are dysfunctional and in denial.

I disagree.

A 'bdsm' relationship not built on love and respect is abusive.

A bdsm relationship built on love and trust is not, nor can it be abusive.

Whereas relationships not built on love and trust are selfish, those that are built on love and trust are selfless.

These are distinguishing characteristics which make it easy to tell the two apart.

 

[eastern sun]

It was very helpful if you were exploring bdsm in '93.

And, yes, I found it helpful too.