When your marriage has 2 very different sexual appetites, what to do

[Wishingbox]

I’m not going to continue this. I’ve said what I can say, and it’s being dismissed. I don’t have the time, energy, or desire to try to help those that already have all the answers.

You might take a moment to consider why my point of view is the one that needs to be pointed out as inaccurate, but the person stating that women simply don’t know how to enjoy sex unless they’re being bribed or paid to just gets a pass.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicebroster/2020/07/31/what-is-the-orgasm-gap/amp/

Women are sexual beings. Orgasms feel good. Women enjoy sex, when their needs are being met. Do with that what you will. I’m done here.

We’re not dismissing your point. We’re telling you that’s not the specific issue being discussed on this thread.

We absolutely agree that woman are sexual and that sex is wonderful for them too.

The issue we’re raising is some woman won’t do the hard work of owning their own sexual desires. And some woman contribute just as much to the bribing with sex.

This whole thread was NOT about bribing. It was about trying to eliminate trading. It’s about fostering and seeing that sexual desire in our spouses grow. It’s been about us trying to understand them, their wants and needs.

Some woman never really discover their sexual nature in a healthy way. In the same way men can be toxic so can woman. Some woman either never really discover their sexual drive in a way that grows it while others can loose it.

It’s like exercise for me. I really like running now but I had to do it for me and find out how to enjoy it or what my obstacles were. Having my wife tell me to do it only made it worse for me.

 

[Wishingbox]

Wow its like reading my own story. Unfortunately i do the same, masturbate everyday to get my release. My husband is not sexually active we do it atleast once a week but i want more i even want it minimum twice a day. I love playing with my nipples and i want my husband to make me cum atleast once before we do it because he always leaves me hangging. I find myself more satisfied in masturbating then doing it

I’m sorry. You’re in good company. It’s doesn’t make things better but at least you know you’re not alone.

 

[adamISOeve]

I’m not going to continue this. I’ve said what I can say, and it’s being dismissed. I don’t have the time, energy, or desire to try to help those that already have all the answers.

You might take a moment to consider why my point of view is the one that needs to be pointed out as inaccurate, but the person stating that women simply don’t know how to enjoy sex unless they’re being bribed or paid to just gets a pass.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicebroster/2020/07/31/what-is-the-orgasm-gap/amp/

Women are sexual beings. Orgasms feel good. Women enjoy sex, when their needs are being met. Do with that what you will. I’m done here.

Dear Katie, I make a quid pro quo offer to you now. I agree to every sentence in the article you have referenced, and I admit as well, that some of us men are imperfect marriage partners, maybe imperfect fathers too. And in return, you agree to stop blaming EVERY man for acting like a dumbass.

This lack of knowledge the Forbes article points out, has reasons, and those reasons need elimination. Like through far more comprehensive sex ed in schools. Birds and bees won’t do, teachers have to begin talking about women’s (external) clitoris, and not just the WHAT but the HOW as well. And teach what medical science has learned lately about the internal clitoris as well. And how some women derive most bliss from one of those, and some from the other.

And how best react to this difference, for pleasurable sex. I am in full agreement with you on that. Even better would be some practical tests before people can obtain a marriage license.

AND I am willing to concede also, that bi-curious women who live out their curiosity, most likely learn more about their own bodies that way. The author of this (older) article apparently was not brave enough to make such a recommendation.

So much for understanding your point of view. But now you ought to stop blaming men in such an oversimplified manner, OK?

 

[KatieDoes]

Dear Katie, I make a quid pro quo offer to you now. I agree to every sentence in the article you have referenced, and I admit as well, that some of us men are imperfect marriage partners, maybe imperfect fathers too. And in return, you agree to stop blaming EVERY man for acting like a dumbass.

This lack of knowledge the Forbes article points out, has reasons, and those reasons need elimination. Like through far more comprehensive sex ed in schools. Birds and bees won’t do, teachers have to begin talking about women’s (external) clitoris, and not just the WHAT but the HOW as well. And teach what medical science has learned lately about the internal clitoris as well. And how some women derive most bliss from one of those, and some from the other.

And how best react to this difference, for pleasurable sex. I am in full agreement with you on that. Even better would be some practical tests before people can obtain a marriage license.

AND I am willing to concede also, that bi-curious women who live out their curiosity, most likely learn more about their own bodies that way. The author of this (older) article apparently was not brave enough to make such a recommendation.

So much for understanding your point of view. But now you ought to stop blaming men in such an oversimplified manner, OK?

Not to be Captain Obvious here, but when a woman clearly states outright that she doesn’t wish to continue a conversation and you insist on tagging her with your patronizing ‘dear Katie’ bullshit, you aren’t making a strong case for yourself being an attentive and competent man.

You and your alts are misogynistic trash. You aren’t entitled to my time and you’ll not get another response from me. Kindly go mansplain women‘s sexuality to someone that values your opinion. I do not.

 

[KatieDoes]

*** and lest anyone unaware of the context think that I’m just being a mean, man hating bitch, please feel free to post stalk Adam and his multiple alts… including, but not limited to, this absolute gem ***

https://forum.literotica.com/thread...worth-approaching-them.1564202/#post-95012940

 

[adamISOeve]

Katie, before YOU barged in on this conversation, it was a mostly constructive discussion between civilized people. People who stuck to the subject of the conversation. But as soon as you showed up, it all degenerated into a name-calling exercise.

I post this only to express my overwhelming gladness about your promise to disappear finally. And I am hoping you will stick to your promise.

 

[Wishingbox]

Although she ended up taking a very narrow and negative approach to this topic she did reiterate and raise valuable points around how sexual desire is impacted by life and relationship stress, prioritizing woman’s pleasure, and avoiding exchange sex.

She seemed to have gotten a bit carried way with making all guys out to be flat characters of the worst kinds of men and I don’t blame her for her experience as Lit brings in all kinds.

All that to say her perspective did seem to reinforce some outdated expectations of gender roles. Especially having read through a lot of books recently on this topic (written by woman sex therapists) it’s revealed how prevalent the incorrect notion of level arousal as a fixed thing and woman (and men) with “lower” drives are at the mercy of their biology.

When the reality is level of arousal is a more dependent on being self aware of your drives and breaks and willingness to explore how you can foster arousal (and that often means getting partner support). Simply letting your drive react to your live Vs curating your life to stimulate your reaction requires individual ownership and effort.

There is simply no way around putting in work for each partner.

 

[adamISOeve]

@WB, your last remarks on problem solving make a lot of sense, for the general case, at least, i.e. when compatibility problems occur. And that is what this threád is all about.

But It's not necessary, so I posit, for the case of both partners embracing their sexuality to the point that both feel a need for making love with one another. THAT too is not rocket science, so not every couple needs your smart books. Do you agree with me here?

 

[Wishingbox]

@WB, your last remarks on problem solving make a lot of sense, for the general case, at least, i.e. when compatibility problems occur. And that is what this threád is all about.

But It's not necessary, so I posit, for the case of both partners embracing their sexuality to the point that both feel a need for making love with one another. THAT too is not rocket science, so not every couple needs your smart books. Do you agree with me here?

I don’t think everyone needs books. However, some individual’s sexual styles which result in conflicts could be very difficult or nearly impossible to navigate without the right words for framing the situation and communicating.

Often it can be chocked up to “I just have a low sex drive”, “you’re just a pig”, “I’m just stressed out” or “I’m broken” etc. but those are either really shallow perspectives or even harmful.

I don’t think many people grow up in healthy environments which teach self awareness in all its forms.

So whether it’s podcasts, books, lectures, YouTube, blogs, religions etc I think we all need some frameworks for mapping ourselves and then navigating ourselves with others.

If we don’t do that hard work we can really easily start hurting each other or ourselves by setting unrealistic expectations and saying hurtful things.

And some couples are really comfortable talking and exploring while others can be a bit more timid and reserved etc.

I like the term “the map is not the terrain”. All kinds of maps exist some better than others but in the end the maps are not the terrain but can really help navigating confusing parts. Why try to bushwhack your way through a relationship when others having gone before you can save you some time and effort?

 

[FuninGalvTX]

So…reading through the entire thread and realizing I may be the only wife here in the same frustrating situation.

In Texas?

 

[Ingenue844]

I wish

 

[Solsurfer]

It’s nice to know I’m not alone in our mismatched marriage. I want it 2-4 times a week. She could go for once or twice a month. Makes for some tough times for me.

 

[Wishingbox]

The issue may typically skew more heavily towards one gender than the other but no one is truly alone in this conflict.

That was one of my reasons for pushing back on what “she who must not be be name” was saying. It was extremely stereotypical. It reinforces this is a men vs woman issue and it very much isn’t.

There is so much complexity around sexuality, drives, social norms, expectations, etc.

It’s also shifting so quickly. The book “Sex At Dawn” was a fascinating read. Society is changing at a rate beyond our bodies ability to adapt so there can be some very complex and messy biological implications mixed with societal expectations etc.

I say all that to welcome anyone to this thread who relates to this struggle and is attempting to navigate it.

 

[Wishingbox]

It’s nice to know I’m not alone in our mismatched marriage. I want it 2-4 times a week. She could go for once or twice a month. Makes for some tough times for me.

No you’re definitely not alone. I’ve found it really helpful to explore it head on and ask questions of myself and my wife. We won’t change if we ignore it and I personally would rather not settle or run away.

I don’t know what my destination will be but it’s good hearing other’s struggles and realizations.

 

[adamISOeve]

@WB, I enjoyed reading about your concept of mapping. Complex situations, regardless of whther one sees them as problematic or not, always benefit from a map that's useful. Thank you

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Not to be Captain Obvious here, but when a woman clearly states outright that she doesn’t wish to continue a conversation and you insist on tagging her with your patronizing ‘dear Katie’ bullshit, you aren’t making a strong case for yourself being an attentive and competent man.

You and your alts are misogynistic trash. You aren’t entitled to my time and you’ll not get another response from me. Kindly go mansplain women‘s sexuality to someone that values your opinion. I do not.

This dialog struck me as relevant:

BEVERLY: Oh, that's nothing. I've been responsible for my own orgasm since 1982.
PENNY: Yikes. *Beverly laughs* What's so funny?
BEVERLY: That's exactly what I say during orgasms. Yikes

 

[AlexBailey]

My wife and I have been working through this issue for years. She’s got a lot going on, and so do I. We’ve been best friends and partners raising our family together but our sexual appetites simply don’t match.

The last of our kids just recently moved out. A couple of weeks ago we were having a great time, with me giving he pleasures that she’d been asking for, she had a full screaming orgasm and finished with “Wow, that was great!” but then she was done. No reciprocation whatsoever.

I asked her if she could get me off and to her it was simply a matter of offering her body to me to get myself off and she would just lay there while I finished.

I have always loved sex, I’m kinky as all hell and have always shared my wants and desires and done everything I can to give her everything she asked for, but something is missing from our interactions. It’s been coming for a long time, but I have finally lost interest in intimacy with her.

I had always held out hope that things would get more interesting as they once were, that her interest in kink would continue to grow, but for several years now it’s only seemed like she was going through the motions. Words have now confirmed it. I still love her but my 23+ years of having a sweet crush on my partner is gone. The girl I fell for who had that spark of fun and intimacy that we shared is no longer part of our relationship. I feel like the word we said the other day ended it, much the same as some people would feel if their partner cheated on them - my wife is no longer interested in intimately pleasing me and sharing me is a complete deal breaker for her.

At just over fifty I’m coming to realize that I will never get to experience the broad range of fantasies I so crave. I’m pathetic and depressed about it. I really need to figure this out and figure out what I want out of the rest of my life. I wish I could take a pill to kill my libido.

 

[adamISOeve]

My empathy goes out to you, and good luck for your future. But look at it this way: having reached only 50 by the time your "nest is empty" , you got plenty of time left for the changes you need in your life.

And btw, I see nothing kinky whatever in reciprocating an orgasm one has just received.

 

[Lady2020]

This is a good thread. Marriages and sexual relationships change over time. I would guess no one signs up thinking a partner would withhold sex or get to the point where sex or intimacy isn't a priority. It can feel neutering and soul-crushing, regardless of gender.

 

[Twistedkink]

This is a good thread. Marriages and sexual relationships change over time. I would guess no one signs up thinking a partner would withhold sex or get to the point where sex or intimacy isn't a priority. It can feel neutering and soul-crushing, regardless of gender.

This statement is so true on so many levels. My wife has no sex drive, though she enjoys sex when we have it. However she is an raging alcoholic and most nights she goes down a dark emotional rabbit hole. I try to view her alcoholism as an illness, but it’s destructive in ways well beyond her physical reaction. So I escape and emotionally cheat on her. Words that I don’t like to admit, but help me survive at my core. My dream is that all of our spouses/significant others would want to love the true person that we are at our soul, and embrace the deepest darkest parts of our desires. Doesn’t mean they have to share them, but embrace them. But it seems they would rather just keep that buried and not go there, just as they have not admitted their true needs and desires.

 

[Wishingbox]

I try to view her alcoholism as an illness, but it’s destructive in ways well beyond her physical reaction.

I’m so sorry. Alcoholism is such a difficult thing for both of you. I wish there were easy and sure solutions for fixing that. I feel for you both and hopefully at some point she’ll find the courage and strength to face it and overcome it. There is hope I’ve known a few who have succeeded there.

My wife has no sex drive, though she enjoys sex when we have it.

As much as it feels like this may be the case I’m hesitant to use the term “no sex drive” and even “low sex drive”. In my reading and research I’ve come to the belief that it’s more of a gas and break situation. Some people have the foot on the breaks and don’t tap the gas. For me a helpful term was “Responsive Desire” vs “Spontaneous Desire”.

Responsive desire relies predominantly on physical stimulation to awaken the desire where others (like myself) are spontaneous in our arousal and find it common to enter into fantasies about sex. We’re far more likely to anticipate.

The book “Come As You Are” helps explain a lot of this.

I think this important to note because framing it as a high vs low can often create a self defeating mindset for the responsive types. Why bother I just don’t have a drive Vs I have a drive but it operates differently and I must actively engage it.

our spouses/significant others would want to love the true person that we are at our soul, and embrace the deepest darkest parts of our desires. Doesn’t mean they have to share them, but embrace them.

so many of us want to be known and loved for who we are. And our relationships are this act of bearing our souls and testing our partners responses. If they handle it well we open up more. If they respond with disgust, pity or shame we shut down and close off.

But we also change and discover new things as we get older. Depending on how our partners handled things we may be prone to keep more in and end up on a divergent path away from our partner.

Then suddenly we wake up and discover we’re don’t know who each other and worse don’t want to know.

I’m trying to be more open and honest with my wife these days but she has to do work to understand our sexual types. She’s realizing she is responsive and doesn’t fantasize and I’m spontaneous and am turned on by a lot of things. However, just because I’m turned on or fantesize about a thing doesn’t mean I actually want to, or even coul do it in real life.

And those concepts of having fantasies is difficult for a responsive type to hear without responding with Yuck.

I liken it to looking at amazing food after you’ve eaten. If you’re not hungry in the moment even amazing food often looks repulsive. So concepts of sex or fanticies will often strike a responsive type person as gross because they haven’t activated their drive.

This makes bearing your desires and being accepted difficult.

 

[adamISOeve]

takers versus givers

I can’t avoid thinking, WishingBox, that the root cause of the problems we are discussing here is far far simpler than you have come to believe. After working yourself through countless books on the subject.

IMHO we are talking about the difference between wives able and willing to give something back to their husbands, and those who possess a parsimonious mindset. And some husbands also, in the case of Meeh81.

Nobody can convince me that a woman who claims to love her husband – is unable to return closeness to him and tenderness. Regardless of whatever may ail her. And it is also plainly obvious, without any need for a discussion, that 99% of such women can just as well give their man a handjob or a blowjob, without fainting or dieing in the process. And if she really feels strongly about him, she will even enjoy that; for the pleasure she gives to and invokes in her husband that way. Because all that is an integral part of loving one’s spouse.

Whereas any woman who requires as much coaxing and bribing and encouragement as many of you are describing it here, is plainly a self-centered TAKER, who has lost her caring and loving stance for her hubby a long time ago.

And let’s face it: modern western societies have been coddling women for decades, if not centuries, just to obtain access to their “feminine potential”. And nobody is going to deny to me that women, after having been spoiled to the hilt for such a long time, will not take advantage of all this. They’d be crazy if they did not.

OR they would be genuinely loving and caring human beings. OK, some such women do exist, I know from experience, but this applies only to very few women on the planet. And once a man finds such a rare unicorn, he better hold on to her with as much determination as possible. …. Which not every man is able to do; I know that from experience as well.

 

[Wishingbox]

Whereas any woman who requires as much coaxing and bribing and encouragement as many of you are describing it here, is plainly a self-centered TAKER

I very much disagree. It’s not that they aren’t giving or at least in my case it’s that their area of focus for giving is not predominantly in the physical intimacy space. My wife gives a tremendously to me and the family in acts of service, anticipating all kinds of needs (not sexual), she gives her time and energy all over the place.

She doesn’t have much hunger generally for sex or even physical intimacy pretty much all the time the concept is no more interesting than getting dressed or vacuuming the room. None of those things spark excitement and anticipation. So sexual intimacy over the years has been relegated to the small space of “whatever’s left” at the end of a day.

Now sure I hear what you’re saying she could at least rub me off right? But at the end of the day she’d argue she just spent all day doing things for me that she’d rather not do but “needed” to be done. And I’m her mind she’s not excite for worked up so it’s no sweat off her back if we just roll over and go to bed. We can simply do it at some other point.

So she is giving and in fact she’s probably argue she’s exhausted from giving and doesn’t have much left.

She is responsible for her own prioritizing of what should or needs to be done and why.

The more I ask for sex the more obligatory it feels and the less willing she will be to accommodate. It also reinforces repulsiveness because having to do something Vs wanting it turns anything sour.

But if she takes ownership of her own desires, learns the value for herself then she could approach it all very differently.

This is my attempt to understand and try to give her the support/chance to do that.

 

[Wishingbox]

modern western societies have been coddling women for decades, if not centuries, just to obtain access to their “feminine potential”

I agree that woman’s feminine or sexual potential has been coddled, suppressed, shamed, minimized and so much since the dawn of time and that a lot of society’s treatment of them contributes to bad self perceptions. That can’t be easily undone and is really confusing to navigate.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say they’ve been “spoiled” though. “Dawn of Sex” is a pretty compelling book.

However from a society level so much sexual pressure is on woman to look a certain way, behave a certain way and is a do this in response to the man. That’s a super unhealthy message and only up until recently seemed to include the “you own your sexual desire”.

Why invest in your own sexual desires if you don’t have sexual choice. Shut up and put out has been the message from the dawn of time. Or in many of our wives cases why work on me he already wants sex enough for the both of us.

So why work at owning that unless an issue arrises. I think my wife and many others just assumed things would get better if they just endure. If you just believe this is how you are as a low drive person what incentive is there to understand yourself when you don’t really see potential.

 

[adamISOeve]

@WB, I am not asking you to view life like I do. And to come to the same conclusions I have arrived at. But I am 100% certain, were you willing to read my post without prejudice -- and without feeling a need to justify what you are doing -- you would discover some truth in it.

Esther Vilar, a female MD, formerly, wrote a whole book on this subject once. For which she got beaten up violently by four feminists who ganged up on her, btw.

So please view my thoughts NOT as an attempt to "put you down" but as added inputs from a person who has come to different conclusions than you. And believe me, my conclusions have not been derived carelessly.