When your marriage has 2 very different sexual appetites, what to do

[Wishingbox]

repeat frustration-rejection cycle.

Aw man I feel for you. Fucking sucks the shame, exposure, vulnerability. I think it was a good idea to invite her and be open instead of hiding. It might be worth mentioning the miscommunication and how you’d rather not slink off and do it in “hiding” but clearly she doesn’t want to be present so you should feel any shame or issue doing it.

Still sucks and I’m sorry you experienced that rejection.

We’re heading out on a week long trip and it’s been about a week since we did anything. We’ve talked more over the past few months about how I’ve been let down and frustrated when I’m getting to the point where I’m worked up or hoping again but then we go on a trip or having people coming which means double the wiring. I have zero expectations or hopes that she’ll be aware of that and make any effort to do anything before we go.

Though I’m trying to be better at not taking it as a rejection or responding emotionally to her not doing anything. But since we’ve talked I’m curious if she’ll make any effort at all.

 

[adamISOeve]

@Wishingbox, The main reason why you and I don’t agree more, I see in our fundamental difference in handling complex problems. My focus lies on solutions. Hence I must achieve a reduction of complexity for this. You on the other hand focus on discovering ever more complexity in this particular problem you are facing. You said so again in your post#227

Our difference is exemplified by two different authors, with a first name Esther. In post #211 you had confused “my” author I mentioned, Esther Vilar, with “your” author Esther Perel (your author wrote the book you mentioned, not mine).

While MY Esther reduces the complexity of relationships between women and men to its few essential components, YOUR Esther writes a book with hundreds of pages, without ever concluding anything of practical value. So is my assessment from the excerpts of her book that I read. But she tries to convince her readers of the enormous complexity of the problem.

Permit me to explain my view of why complexity reduction makes more sense than the opposite: When Mother Nature designed the human species (i.e. through evolution), her primary goal was procreation as much and as efficiently as possible. And that would have never worked with too much complexity. So evolution tends to result in “minimalistic” solutions, most of the time. And it worked indeed.

But then a fellow appeared on the scene, in Vienna, a doctor Sigmund Freud, and he began throwing monkey wrenches into the works, by inventing psychoanalysis. None of Dr. Freud’s supposed discoveries were meant to help patients, far from it, but they sure helped the profession of “shrinks” and therapists to take in lots and lots of money in fees. Because patients have to forever come back for more therapy.

B.F. Skinner, on the other hand, the founder of behavioral psychology, did not receive nearly as much fame as Sigmund Freud, because “all he did” was focus on solutions. And of course complexity reduction became necessary. As it always does, when workable solutions are required.

THAT I see as the principal difference between your and my approach. And I wonder now: can you agree with me?

 

[Wishingbox]

@Wishingbox, The main reason why you and I don’t agree more, I see in our fundamental difference in handling complex problems. My focus lies on solutions. Hence I must achieve a reduction of complexity for this. You on the other hand focus on discovering ever more complexity in this particular problem you are facing. You said so again in your post#227

Our difference is exemplified by two different authors, with a first name Esther. In post #211 you had confused “my” author I mentioned, Esther Vilar, with “your” author Esther Perel (your author wrote the book you mentioned, not mine).

While MY Esther reduces the complexity of relationships between women and men to its few essential components, YOUR Esther writes a book with hundreds of pages, without ever concluding anything of practical value. So is my assessment from the excerpts of her book that I read. But she tries to convince her readers of the enormous complexity of the problem.

Permit me to explain my view of why complexity reduction makes more sense than the opposite: When Mother Nature designed the human species (i.e. through evolution), her primary goal was procreation as much and as efficiently as possible. And that would have never worked with too much complexity. So evolution tends to result in “minimalistic” solutions, most of the time. And it worked indeed.

But then a fellow appeared on the scene, in Vienna, a doctor Sigmund Freud, and he began throwing monkey wrenches into the works, by inventing psychoanalysis. None of Dr. Freud’s supposed discoveries were meant to help patients, far from it, but they sure helped the profession of “shrinks” and therapists to take in lots and lots of money in fees. Because patients have to forever come back for more therapy.

B.F. Skinner, on the other hand, the founder of behavioral psychology, did not receive nearly as much fame as Sigmund Freud, because “all he did” was focus on solutions. And of course complexity reduction became necessary. As it always does, when workable solutions are required.

THAT I see as the principal difference between your and my approach. And I wonder now: can you agree with me?

Ah yes I see the mixup in authors. My bad for not reading it more clearly or being able to spell well so I hadn’t even noticed.

I hear what you’re saying about the evolutionary and biological simplicity. However as illustrated in “come as you are” one experiment run with mice showed that putting little coats on the mice before they had sex for the first time imprinted on them an association of sex with little jackets. It even prevented them from being able to have sex without them because of the biological and psychological connection.

The big issue contributing to complexity which your model leaves out is the human mind. We are sentient beings far more creative than any animal.

Simply thinking about the societal changes that are happening in response to the human mind are so rapid and exponential in complexity that the body cannot evolve well along side of them.

Your model might work if you simply grew humans in bats and introduced them for the first time to another in nature. Our minds and emotions are programmed and defined by our lives in societies.

I agree that at some level the biology may be fixed/defined but our minds are not and get impressed upon. What our minds think directly effect our bodies and vise Versa.

Scroll Twitter or read Lit and our bodies respond to stimulus which trigger biological responses which trigger emotional responses which then result in behavior changes etc.

Some aspects are fixed but their applications due to the human mind are infinite and this complex.

 

[adamISOeve]

@WB, I see I cannot get through to you with the simplest of messages, no matter how hard I am trying. Most likely you and I speak different languages. And I have not found a language yet that your sensing apparatus is willing or able of decoding.

So we better agree that you and I will never see eye to eye on several subjects. Like that of intimate affection between two partners, which in my view is anything but rocket science. And that affection is NOT driven by all the complexity of modern-day life, IMHO. It’s either there or it ain’t, the way I see it, and when it ain’t, Sigmund Freud’s apostles and disciples won’t restore it either, because their approach is simply wrong.

I remember an approach in the 1980s called Sensitivity Training. Not complex at all because it involved mainly to learn better listening to each other.

 

[AlexBailey]

@WB, I see I cannot get through to you with the simplest of messages, no matter how hard I am trying. Most likely you and I speak different languages. And I have not found a language yet that your sensing apparatus is willing or able of decoding.

So we better agree that you and I will never see eye to eye on several subjects. Like that of intimate affection between two partners, which in my view is anything but rocket science. And that affection is NOT driven by all the complexity of modern-day life, IMHO. It’s either there or it ain’t, the way I see it, and when it ain’t, Sigmund Freud’s apostles and disciples won’t restore it either, because their approach is simply wrong.

I remember an approach in the 1980s called Sensitivity Training. Not complex at all because it involved mainly to learn better listening to each other.

IMHO?

There is nothing humble about the way you express your opinions.

You spoke in another post about life needing to be simple for mass procreation to work - that’s only part of the equation. Another major part is variation. Little changes appear to influence the gene pool and create new paradigms. Paramecium are relatively simple, more complex creatures are more varied.

Think simply of the variety of personalities and temperaments of different dogs. Even among the same breed one subject can be docile and lazy while another can be aggressive and obnoxious.

Do you deny the mix of influence between nature and nurture? Why aren’t all puppies in a litter identical in looks and traits? Nature does not thrive in simplicity. Human psychology and proclivities are not based on simple equations.

Simple would be male and female - get together and produce more. Is that all there is to it for you? You really embrace simplicity as the working model for human behavior?

Are you equally attracted to all females? Why some more than others?

 

[Wishingbox]

So we better agree that you and I will never see eye to eye on several subjects. Like that of intimate affection between two partners, which in my view is anything but rocket science. And that affection is NOT driven by all the complexity of modern-day life, IMHO. It’s either there or it ain’t, the way I see it, and when it ain’t, Sigmund Freud’s apostles and disciples won’t restore it either, because their approach is simply wrong.

I remember an approach in the 1980s called Sensitivity Training. Not complex at all because it involved mainly to learn better listening to each other.

I feel like you’ve done a good job articulating your point and perspective. I’m not exactly sure what part I’m not comprehending I am genuinely trying to hear you out.

I just don’t see your argument as compelling enough to change my perspective on how much our minds and what we we believe impact our behavior.

I’m not saying I accept Freud’s mommy issue perspectives or ideas. However doing the work of discussing perspectives, feelings and our individual biologies with our spouses can help change both of our perspectives and result in behavior changes.

Maybe talking will change jealousy issues or bring clarity to miss understandings.

Maybe recognizing past traumas can help separate past hurts from present people.

I’m not saying my wife is going to wake up and be a nympho but we can might be able to better meet in the middle and improve our perspectives of the other if we better understand them.

I’m also quite ok to agree to disagree. That doesn’t mean we can’t talk or continue to point to examples. I’m not here expecting to change you but hopefully we both learned a thing or two even if our overall opinions remain the same.

And others reading this too may be better able to express their opinions and understand things whichever side they fall on.

 

[Diosax]

I am STILL waiting to get a therepaist apointment. They do not return emails or calls!

I was gonna comment yesterday that September is just around the corner! Don't get discouraged!

Once you are going is typically easier to get follow up appointments

 

[adamISOeve]

@Wishingbox, I am not asking you to change your perspective. IN fact the part of my post you cited reads "lets take note of our disagreement in thinking"

What follows was MY perspective, which you need not share. I did not ask you for ithat You go ahead and solve your problems your way, and I solve my problems my way.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

I am STILL waiting to get a therepaist apointment. They do not return emails or calls!
Meanwhile, wifey and I seemed to be doing better communicating. Seemed. We actually got in bed 30 minutes early and talked about all kinds of stuff. Did light touching too. After 20 minutes of this, I asked if I could touch her a little more. She said, yes. Then I noticed that her hands had laid still and at her sides and she just seemed to stare away out of the open window. She was not a participant at all.

I am sorry, but I was pretty horny at this point, and asked what would she think if I pleasured myself instead. (last time I just left and did it, and she got mad, so I tried talking about it first this time). She was kinda stuttering....here? where? In some corner of the house? I said, here if it is OK with you? She asked if I wanted her to go somewhere else. I said no, not unless you want to.

So I got the lube out, and she says, "wait, lemme brush my teeth". So, I waited and got everything ready and cozy. She was at least going to make-out with me while I did myself.

She came into the bedroom, and was confused. She asked if I finished already. I said that I was waiting for her. Aparently, I misunderstood her. When she said. "wait lemme brush my teeth". She really meant "do not start until I leave the room, and please finish before I return".

She was looking around the room as if to find a corner to hide in. I asked her, if she wanted to be around or not for it. She tried to dodge the question, but I was persistant. She finally said that she has no desire to be with me when I pleasure myself. Only if it was "some fantasy" to have her watch me as I masturbated. I told her that my fantasy was for her to WANT to be part of it. End that shit again.

repeat frustration-rejection cycle.

I was going out on a limb and offering a very intimate part of myself, only to be told that she is not interested. I am absolutely sick and tired of getting these assinine surprises from her.

That therepaist date cannot come fast enough!!!!

Yes, it is going to take a lot of patience, but the fact that you are trying should give some hope.

Listen to your therapist, but it is probably worthwhile to talk about how you felt you were putting yourself out there and exposing yourself (I meant metaphorically, but, anyway) and that you felt rejected. However, it will also probably be helpful to approach this from a direction of sympathy and understanding for her perspective. It is apparent that she is not comfortable with you masturbating. I don't know enough to guess why. Is it because she is just uncomfortable with the whole idea of masturbation? There are still a lot of people raised with very negative views of masturbaton. Does it feel to her like a reminder of something that is wrong in your relationship or a sign of your dissatisfaction with her?
So, I ain't a therapist, but I know enough to suggest that you appoach this by talking about how you felt, and not how she sabotaged you.

 

[Moochienanu]

I was asked to share a bit of my perspective on this topic, but I fear I have a lot of things to say that may not be what this group wants to hear.

Did you know that many women have never actually orgasmed or don’t get the same pleasure from sex as they did when they were younger. This is for many reasons such as the ‘sex is taboo’ culture they were raised by (lay back and think of England!), the fact that they (or their partner) has never spent the time to learn what they enjoy, and that their anatomy changes often - things that felt amazing yesterday won’t work today because levels of certain hormones have changed causing her vulva to feel differently. The big one I experienced when I first started having sex was that I wanted my partner to think that he was doing a good job, so I would fake orgasms. I confessed this to him years later because it was one of the main reasons I didn’t want to have sex. Yes, his feelings were super hurt, but we also had opened a dialogue about never faking again and how could I get real pleasure from sex.

Sex, in the end, should be something enjoyable for all parties involved. If something doesn’t feel right for one person, why would you want to make them do it? My example is anal. I enjoy it very much when I’m in the right mood and with the right partner. My husband, however, cannot get over the “dirty” factor, so we found the workaround that I can put in a plug instead of ask him for it (this is particularly nice with a tail because he can pull it a bit).

Something I learned about the hard way was sharing my fantasies with my husband. I am rather adventurous in my fantasies and have brought up ones that I thought were both sexy and innocuous (wouldn’t it be hot if I offered to blow the pizza guy as his tip?) only to have him trying to figure out logistics on how we could make them happen. That’s not what I want. I just want to have a place to share my naughty thoughts and not actually do them. The classic one I think everyone has is about a three way. I confided in my husband that I fantasized about having a three-way with him and my first girlfriend. Next thing I know we were all three making out and then he was touching her like he touches me and I froze. Something clicked and I didn’t want it anymore, but there was no out. Thankfully it all kinda devolved because I was just not into it and they both noticed. We ended up shirking it off and we never spoke of a three-way again. Some (or maybe most?) fantasies are meant to just be fantastic.

Recently, my biggest complaint is that I am a responsive lover with my husband, and he is the same. We go days or weeks without sex because we’re busy or only see each other for a few minutes in the morning while our kid is awake and we’re not able to get our brains into an intimate place during that time. It becomes stressful for us both to feel like the only one to initiate any intimacy. I also have a lot of stress right now which takes up my brain space - when he asked me what I needed from him recently, I told him and he grumbled. It wasn’t sexual, what I needed, but he asked, so I told him. He still hasn’t done the thing, but he’s working on it daily, which feels like he’s trying to help with my stressors, which makes him attractive and makes me more likely to want to be intimate.

I have more to say on this subject, but I’m super tired, so it will have to wait until I sleep and collect the thoughts.

 

[Wishingbox]

First thanks for taking the time to share.

You raise a lot of really important points with your experience and they resonate a lot with me. I think many of us was a simple 10 tips for more sex but that rarely exists. Which is why as you seem to point out self discovery for both of you seems to be the biggest ways you’ve improved in your sexual intimacy.

Did you know that many women have never actually orgasmed or don’t get the same pleasure from sex as they did when they were younger.

I sadly read this too often and it breaks my heart to think that so many couples are missing out on the joys their orgasm. I recognize the complexities and limitations but as you point out honest communication is the only way to improve this. We need to feel safe to be honest and not threaten when our partner says what we’re providing could be better. There has to be a balance in giving positive and negative feedback. Negative feedback although it stings in the moment is a future investment in that persons behavior.

The best analogy I’ve heard is feedback is like a bank account. Really specific positive feedback is like a deposit where negative specific feedback is like paying a bill, it hurts but you get something useful out of it. If you aren’t careful you can over draft the account.

The big one I experienced when I first started having sex was that I wanted my partner to think that he was doing a good job, so I would fake orgasms.

Your heart is in the right place and I think that’s a great guiding mindset even if it’s applied incorrectly. But you’re spot on with social expectations here. Like the idea sex is only good with an orgasms. Or it’s a reflection of your partner if you don’t reach orgasm. We come in with so many preconceived ideas of what we’re supposed to be and how we’re supposed to act but don’t ask if it’s what we or our partners really want or need.

We ended up shirking it off and we never spoke of a three-way again. Some (or maybe most?) fantasies are meant to just be fantastic.

This was something that really stood out to me recently and my wife doesn’t seem to accept (and is likely still processing) is that often fantasies are safe and stripped down to just the parts we like. We talked about threesomes and swinging recently. I said in theory I’m turned on by the idea but in reality I have no idea how I’d actually handle all the things that I don’t imagine. She tends to focus on the negatives and way things could go wrong so she was like “no it’s easy you just think about it”. Haha I’m like that’s not how fantasies work (She doesn’t fantasize about sex much). In our fantasies we jump to the good part glaze over the uncomfortable and complete leave out the hard parts.

My threesome fantasies never involve the suctioning farting noises our stomachs sometimes make when they come together. I’m just saying…

Recently, my biggest complaint is that I am a responsive lover with my husband, and he is the same.

At least you’re aware of the term responsive vs spontaneous lover. I think having a good framework to help navigate ourselves is so helpful for us and our partners. It truly does make the asking for something easier. It helps us be more tolerant of why someone is responding differently or the same as us. Expecting your partner to switch his loving style is no more helpful than someone simply telling you to be less stressed.

Heaping additional responsibilities on each other without doing the work of asking what that’s truly asking of the other or exploring how/if they can do it sets us up for failure and self esteem issues. Asking for change without assisting with how to get there is lonely and often demoralizing.

Someone recently phrased it like getting people to eat more broccoli by taking away the ice cream rarely works. You’ll have far better luck exploring how to make delicious amazing salads based on the appetite of the person eating and exploring how they can still enjoy ice cream or some other delicious deserts.

 

[Wishingbox]

@Moochienanu reinforces why I think the psychological aspect play such crucial roles in our capacities for intimacy.

Being able to tell someone the truth about not reaching an orgasm can be really really difficult for both partners. This can bring up so many insecurities like

“Am I broken or abnormal because it’s not happening”

“I’m not good and I’m the problem”

“I’ll never get better”

“It’s because of my past”

“It’s because of what someone else said did”

“I’m told it’s wrong”

“They’ll think I’m gay”

“What if I like it too much”

“What if it doesn’t stop with this or that”

“What if they leave me”

“What if I try and can’t go through with it”

“What if they stop liking me”

“What if they laugh or shame me”

We carry so many insecurities. Some are subconscious others ever present in our mind. Some have been explicitly confirmed and reinforced others inadvertently and unintentionally added to. Some new others have been with us as long as we can remember.

If we don’t spend time thinking and being honest about these with ourselves they’re going to continue to reinforced. Especially if we can’t honestly talk about them with our partner in a healthy respectful manor.

For example my wife for almost 13 years of our marriage miss-interpreted my desire for sexual novelty as her performance not being satisfactory. When I found out I was shocked. I said “No way it’s like finding the best ingredient or seasoning and wanting to try and figure out how to use it in every recipe” Its so wonderful I want to try it like this, and that, and more frequently, possibly let them try etc.

 

[Wishingbox]

We’re heading out on a week long trip and it’s been about a week since we did anything. We’ve talked more over the past few months about how I’ve been let down and frustrated when I’m getting to the point where I’m worked up or hoping again but then we go on a trip or having people coming which means double the wiring. I have zero expectations or hopes that she’ll be aware of that and make any effort to do anything before we go.

So tonight was a typical no go night.

So now we are arriving at the end of the normal week and this will be a double long weeker. What’s worse is I saw she packed a few pads which we both know her period may come at the tail end. That risks pushing this into a three week break on sexual intimacy.

I at some point we will discuss it but I won’t ruin our vacation by bringing it up right now.

It sounds so petty and needy from the outside that someone would count days between sex or be so concerned. I realize that but if the roles were reversed and I was leaving for a work trip for two weeks and spent the week before checked out she would be utterly crushed.

Anyway it is was I expected but not what I hoped.

Am I handling it better? Yes and no. The pain is the same but the shame is absent. I don’t feel bad that I’m not wanted because I know I’m worthy of desire and attractive. It’s a her problem so I feel more pity than shame.

She is her own worst enemy and I am helpless to assist her. I have resources, we’ve talked, I’ve encouraged, I’ve provided endless pleasures but at the end of the day it’s her choice to live this way not mine.

I think this is why my goal has not been to fix per say but to first understand. The reason being it takes two to find a fix. But it only takes one to find security. I’ve learned so much about myself and her in the past few months. I didn’t want to come in with the goal that “I can fix this” I wanted to first understand “what is this” and now that I understand it better the obligation to “fix it” is lessened because it is not my responsibility alone.

 

[adamISOeve]

@Wishingbox, I keep wondering: what is the point of someone sharing his frustration with a situation he is in, when it is one he has perpetuated by his own inactions? The original post of this thread – back in mid February – written by GregThickDix had asked the question instead “What to do?”

When I glanced over this thread once again yesterday, I saw a fairly constructive discussion going on, about action alternatives, but then it appeared to me that it was you who began – say in post #86 – to suggest that the way out was patience and understanding.

Mustering understanding for the perpetrator of all evil, the partner in a marriage who refuses to return to you the kind of intimate affection which could save your marriage.

Now my approach to this problem is completely different: retaliate in kind. Show the partner who is withholding affection that she might as well withhold forever, because you have found a better alternative in the meantime.

The way I see it, partners who withhold affection incur an obligation: to stop complaining about this and that, and instead get their own act together. And that is by no means as difficult as “rocket science”. When a partner has fucked up her own sexuality, by giving in to lots of stimuli from the outside, all of which were repressing her sexuality, then it becomes HER obligation, and not yours, to clear her head from all the garbage she has accumulated. You can help her for sure, but she has to take some active steps all by herself, because it was SHE who refused openness to inputs and stimuli, which encourage developing her own sexuality.

Sure, orgasms in women are more complex to experience than in (most) men, but that is no excuse for a woman not to learn the HOWs of her own orgasms. Lonnie Barbach wrote several good books, which teach women just that. You shared with us that your wife has never masturbated – and your wife is not the only one – but masturbation can be learned, just ask Lonnie Barbach.

Before a woman can expect her husband to “perform miracles” with her, it is SHE who must learn to discover her own body first. Because not all women are as lucky as several I have met, who discovered their own sexuality quite naturally. Usually through masturbation. And who are genuinely enjoying the potential their bodies offer to them.

So my own position is: a wife needs some incentive on her own, for cleaning up an act she should have learned ages ago. And if she is too lazy or too inhibited for that, it should be to HER disadvantage, and not to yours.

Other women do exist, who’ll be glad to substitute for your wife! And for you to cope with your dreadful situation, you better internalize this simple truth. Only when a man can no longer be blackmailed by his wife, might he have a chance for his wife to learn something new.

Of course the exact same thing applies when husbands withhold affection from their wives. A man with a fucked up sexuality can take steps also, for “repairing” his. And modern medicine has given us Sildenafil (=Viagra), after all.

 

[Cherry_Brandy]

@Wishingbox, I keep wondering: what is the point of someone sharing his frustration with a situation he is in, when it is one he has perpetuated by his own inactions? The original post of this thread – back in mid February – written by GregThickDix had asked the question instead “What to do?”

When I glanced over this thread once again yesterday, I saw a fairly constructive discussion going on, about action alternatives, but then it appeared to me that it was you who began – say in post #86 – to suggest that the way out was patience and understanding.

Mustering understanding for the perpetrator of all evil, the partner in a marriage who refuses to return to you the kind of intimate affection which could save your marriage.

Now my approach to this problem is completely different: retaliate in kind. Show the partner who is withholding affection that she might as well withhold forever, because you have found a better alternative in the meantime.

The way I see it, partners who withhold affection incur an obligation: to stop complaining about this and that, and instead get their own act together. And that is by no means as difficult as “rocket science”. When a partner has fucked up her own sexuality, by giving in to lots of stimuli from the outside, all of which were repressing her sexuality, then it becomes HER obligation, and not yours, to clear her head from all the garbage she has accumulated. You can help her for sure, but she has to take some active steps all by herself, because it was SHE who refused openness to inputs and stimuli, which encourage developing her own sexuality.

Sure, orgasms in women are more complex to experience than in (most) men, but that is no excuse for a woman not to learn the HOWs of her own orgasms. Lonnie Barbach wrote several good books, which teach women just that. You shared with us that your wife has never masturbated – and your wife is not the only one – but masturbation can be learned, just ask Lonnie Barbach.

Before a woman can expect her husband to “perform miracles” with her, it is SHE who must learn to discover her own body first. Because not all women are as lucky as several I have met, who discovered their own sexuality quite naturally. Usually through masturbation. And who are genuinely enjoying the potential their bodies offer to them.

So my own position is: a wife needs some incentive on her own, for cleaning up an act she should have learned ages ago. And if she is too lazy or too inhibited for that, it should be to HER disadvantage, and not to yours.

Other women do exist, who’ll be glad to substitute for your wife! And for you to cope with your dreadful situation, you better internalize this simple truth. Only when a man can no longer be blackmailed by his wife, might he have a chance for his wife to learn something new.

Of course the exact same thing applies when husbands withhold affection from their wives. A man with a fucked up sexuality can take steps also, for “repairing” his. And modern medicine has given us Sildenafil (=Viagra), after all.

This really is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.....

"Now my approach to this problem is completely different: retaliate in kind. Show the partner who is withholding affection that she might as well withhold forever, because you have found a better alternative in the meantime."

That clearly hasn't worked for you at all, has it? Your wife is not chasing you up the stairs each night! You've had years on here, using many ALTs, trying to persuade females to enter into mail only relationships with you, so you can both make up for what you aren't getting at home. If your approach to reviving your partners interest had been successful, you'd not need someone else to fill that void. It appears that your partner is more than happy to withhold from you forever and you're still at home, bitter, twisted and tolerating it.

I don't think these gents need any advice from you, maybe, if any of their methods work you could learn from them.

 

[Wishingbox]

one he has perpetuated by his own inactions?

Supporting, waiting, being curious, patient, reading. These are all actions not inactions.

to suggest that the way out was patience and understanding.

It is one possible way out. I’m not saying it will get the result that I or anyone else is looking for. There is no sure fix because everyone is different and we are all autonomous individuals.

The more curious and patient I am the more I realize how complex sex and our drives are and the kinder I am able to respond to my wife. This is is how I would prefer to be treated too on issues I feel I am unable to change.

Now my approach to this problem is completely different: retaliate in kind. Show the partner who is withholding affection that she might as well withhold forever, because you have found a better alternative in the meantime.

You do you. I don’t know you or your wife so I can prescribe anything here however this sounds like middle school playground behavior.

My wife is a beautiful person deserving of respect and love. She isn’t a child and she isn’t perfect.

it becomes HER obligation, and not yours, to clear her head from all the garbage she has accumulated.

It is her responsibility to own her own sexual wellbeing but she isn’t alone and like everything I being her lover, friend and husband am dedicated to helping her do that like any other responsibility she has and vice Versa. We all have garbage in our heads and rarely can we clear it out on our own.

Before a woman can expect her husband to “perform miracles” with her, it is SHE who must learn to discover her own body first.

I agree with this. She has to own her own discovery and I can only do so much to assist in that journey. But I also have growing to do and am inviting her into mine and hopefully together we can both benefit from each others growth.

——


She may never change or take ownership. That’s not my choice but I will explore every avenue before I retaliate like you suggest or explore going elsewhere.

 

[Forest_Fun]

Wishing box, (I really can’t be bothered to go through everything you’ve already written to see if the answer is there) - are you sure she needs to ”take responsibility to her own sexual wellbeing”? Maybe she actually would be happy with whatever you are doing today? Isn’t all of this in fact you trying to get her to take care of your sexual wellbeing?

I don’t think my husband feels any need at all to explore his brakes and his gas or any kink or whatever. He has no erectile dysfunktion and he cums just fine when we eventually do anything. I genuinely think he is perfectly happy…. The only thing is that I am not, and therein lies the problem…..

But since I’m not perfectly happy, the relationship isn’t perfectly happy. But I don’t think he needs to read up and explore sex for his own sake. It’s a way to make ME happy. But perhaps your wife do has sexual issues…..?

 

[adamISOeve]

@WB, I admit one thing to you: your capability of loving your wife far exceeds mine.

OK, maybe when I wrote my post, that was driven by some additional misgivings towards another woman too, and perhaps the outcome was indeed a bit middle school-like. But I remain convinced nevertheless: when a man fails to show a woman, that she can overplay her cards also, and then there will be consequences to pay, he makes himself vulnerable to manipulation.

That is my viewpoint, but of course I dont expect anybody else to share it

 

[Diosax]

I do wonder if some of you even like women though

It's 2022 you know, you can openly like men now.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Wishing box, (I really can’t be bothered to go through everything you’ve already written to see if the answer is there) - are you sure she needs to ”take responsibility to her own sexual wellbeing”? Maybe she actually would be happy with whatever you are doing today? Isn’t all of this in fact you trying to get her to take care of your sexual wellbeing?

I don’t think my husband feels any need at all to explore his brakes and his gas or any kink or whatever. He has no erectile dysfunktion and he cums just fine when we eventually do anything. I genuinely think he is perfectly happy…. The only thing is that I am not, and therein lies the problem…..

But since I’m not perfectly happy, the relationship isn’t perfectly happy. But I don’t think he needs to read up and explore sex for his own sake. It’s a way to make ME happy. But perhaps your wife do has sexual issues…..?

Can I inquire as to

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

I do wonder if some of you even like women though

It's 2022 you know, you can openly like men now.

There is a difference between "liking" women and "liking" women.

Not going to refer to any of the posters on here in particular (as there is no reason for anyone to post a defensive response),
but there are certainly men who are attracted to women sexually, but who do not seem capable of viewing or treating women as human beings.

 

[chame1eon]

Can I inquire as to

I think you forgot something

 

[chame1eon]

There is a difference between "liking" women and "liking" women.

Not going to refer to any of the posters on here in particular (as there is no reason for anyone to post a defensive response),
but there are certainly men who are attracted to women sexually, but who do not seem capable of viewing or treating women as human beings.

That is actually really sad. I don't know how they came to be that way, but how can they ever have a good relationship in their life thinking that way.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

That is actually really sad. I don't know how they came to be that way, but how can they ever have a good relationship in their life thinking that way.

Yes, it is sad. But I gather you do not disagree with my point.

A lot has been written about how boys are socialized and how it impacts their perceptions of masculinity. It seems to me that the portrayal of women in a lot of porn, when viewed by adolescent boys, can lead to the expectation that females will be dumping grounds for thei semen. But there is a lot more in media that sexualizes young women at the expense of their humanity. Add to that how difficult puberty is for boys (not saying more or less difficult than girls), when there is a lot of pressure to establish manhood by sexual conquest, and the result is a lot of obectification.

 

[chame1eon]

Yes, it is sad. But I gather you do not disagree with my point.

A lot has been written about how boys are socialized and how it impacts their perceptions of masculinity. It seems to me that the portrayal of women in a lot of porn, when viewed by adolescent boys, can lead to the expectation that females will be dumping grounds for thei semen. But there is a lot more in media that sexualizes young women at the expense of their humanity. Add to that how difficult puberty is for boys (not saying more or less difficult than girls), when there is a lot of pressure to establish manhood by sexual conquest, and the result is a lot of obectification.

I don't disagree.
I just wish there was something I could do.
Its not good for anyone.