Why do people make the comments they do?

[MelancholyRose]

If you ever spend a day on Youtube, you see that 99 percent of the comments on it are just the ramblings of drooling idiots that you can never, ever take seriously. Flames going off left and right, people calling others horrible names, making false claims, pointing the finger, etc. It's not limited to Literotica, in fact, if Literotica were a convention or live function, you'd see a lot less of people behaving this way.

It's the internet in general. With the notion that someone is anonymous, they feel invincible and untouchable, and anything they do and say to another does not affect them, because they don't have to face their reaction. People have a false sense of courage on the internet that they use in the most abusive way possible. Some of them deliberately go out of their way to start fights with people because it makes them feel important, and they thrive on getting people upset.

I'm not even talking about people who actually give constructive criticism. That's definitely what I'd like to see more of. Saying "that was really good" or "THAT FUCKIN' SUCKED DUDE" doesn't help anyone become a better writer. But I can say this: commenting that the story was "really good" doesn't hurt someone's feelings outright. The way I see it, if you're going to be a nagging bitch about what you read, don't make a comment. If you have something intelligent to say (and I mean actually intelligent, not fluffing up your post or comment with ridiculous pontificating, extensive dialogue that makes you look smart), then say it, whether it's good or bad. Saying stuff like "that wasted my time" is, ironically, wasting the writer's time.

So, in conclusion, if someone does nothing but insult you or your piece, they are lazy, and just want to upset you. However, what's important is not confusing constructive criticism for flames. You'll be able to tell the difference in time. Especially if you hang around Youtube! Not every comment should be taken seriously, and when posting on the internet, that's an important thing to remember, since the internet is full of people who love to cause misery.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I'd love to hear Paco's take on that.

Your "never demeaned yourself to participate" is a good exhibit of both your lying about me and your lack of research skills. I've entered a lot of contests here--usually with multiple entries. I have probably four or five times the contest entries at Literotica as you have stories posted to Literotica in total--and years more recent too.

What a screwball you are.

You have the greasy politician's skill of not addressing issues. Anyway, if you admit to multiple contest entries (under your main moniker or alts?) scouries will be burning your effigy on the 'A.I.R. on a G-string' thread.

Also, isn't it cute that only insecure males like you and scouries get wrapped up with the 'mine is bigger than your's' syndrome?

This sandpit is certainly well below your skills and competence. I'm not sure you even recognize the difference between your understanding of 1st person POV and the elephant traps that some neophytes fall into. On grammar issues you give fantastic advice but you seem viscerally averse to get down and dirty in the more simple problems writers here have.

'Everybody matters' is a credo I learnt years ago. I strongly disagree with your patrician disregard that says that only the self-promoting experts are worth regarding. It is patently false.

The OP made a reasoned comment about anonymous vitriol on Public Comments. As so often, you didn't answer the question. Shame on you.

 

[sr71plt]

This has been the daily dose of fake crap by the crazy lady.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

This has been the daily dose of fake crap by the crazy lady.

As you yourself said, ad hominem attacks without justification or rationale just prove you are an arrogant busted flush.

Answer the questions or stay silent.

 

[sr71plt]

As you yourself said, ad hominem attacks without justification or rationale just prove you are an arrogant busted flush.

Answer the questions or stay silent.

Without justification? Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Who do you think you are impressing with this crazy hate campaign of yours?

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Without justification? Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Who do you think you are impressing with this crazy hate campaign of yours?

You miss the point entirely. This is a site where every member's voice is worth hearing. You have tried for some time, unfortunately successfully, to bully commenters here - so much that many have packed their tents and left.

You sit, like the Hydra, spitting venom against anyone who hasn't subscribed to your supreme soviet that claims that your voice is the only true word. Balls!

I like the comments on stories; when did you last read one, except your own?l

You have so much to offer but seem unable to let go and mix with us, the unwashed, on a friendly basis.

 

[sr71plt]

You miss the point entirely. This is a site where every member's voice is worth hearing. You have tried for some time, unfortunately successfully, to bully commenters here - so much that many have packed their tents and left.

You sit, like the Hydra, spitting venom against anyone who hasn't subscribed to your supreme soviet that claims that your voice is the only true word. Balls!

I like the comments on stories; when did you last read one, except your own?l

You have so much to offer but seem unable to let go and mix with us, the unwashed, on a friendly basis.

You're lying, of course.

And if everyone's voice is worth hearing, why are you all over the boards attacking me and trying to drive me off the boards?

I think it has more to do with you being a fraud and being frustrated that you are being shown to be one than it has to do with me.

You are a certifiable psychopath, honey.

The only one trying to fill this room with themselves is you.

 

[lovecraft68]

You miss the point entirely. This is a site where every member's voice is worth hearing. You have tried for some time, unfortunately successfully, to bully commenters here - so much that many have packed their tents and left.

You sit, like the Hydra, spitting venom against anyone who hasn't subscribed to your supreme soviet that claims that your voice is the only true word. Balls!

I like the comments on stories; when did you last read one, except your own?l

You have so much to offer but seem unable to let go and mix with us, the unwashed, on a friendly basis.

First off I do agree that comments are fun to read, good and bad. I frequently find myself surfing the feedback portal and getting lost there.

You know although I tend to agree that Pilot is a bit arrogant, you do realize that you are feeding that ego by giving him all this time in your head don't you?

Also you are wasting words. Hydra is way to cool of a description for him. I usually just stick with Jerk or Dink.

On another note, the two of you are demonstarting the entire point of the thread in full force. Quibbling with and insulting someone you don't really know and will never meet.

Anyway just a passing observation.

I do agree "elfin" that comments are fun to read good and bad and I frequently find myself surfing the feedback portal and getting lost there.

 

[sr71plt]

Such fun. A gangbang. Who again is attacking who on this thread?

And what is it about this thread topic that I have not posted constructive comment to?

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Such fun. A gangbang. Who again is attacking who on this thread?

And what is it about this thread topic that I have not posted constructive comment to?

All of them, you have been negative, arrogant and unforgivably high-handed. You have superb knowledge which we would all like to share but you desroy everything with your appalling comments here.

 

[sr71plt]

There she goes again.

You need to get your campaign attack coordinated. Am I giving you hot flashes because I comment too much or too little? You've hit me from both directions on that.

But, no, it's because I show up many of your comments as being cockamamy, isn't it?

Speaking of frauds, my next Lit. story posts tomorrow. When does your next one post?

 

[_Lynn_]

You miss the point entirely. This is a site where every member's voice is worth hearing. You have tried for some time, unfortunately successfully, to bully commenters here - so much that many have packed their tents and left.

You sit, like the Hydra, spitting venom against anyone who hasn't subscribed to your supreme soviet that claims that your voice is the only true word. Balls!

I like the comments on stories; when did you last read one, except your own?l

You have so much to offer but seem unable to let go and mix with us, the unwashed, on a friendly basis.

It took me all of five minutes to find these two. I could hunt longer . . .

04-30-2011, 02:52 PM Post #3

I read "Love Among the Elk." The story was a good one for its category, delivered well. I thought Wendy was a little forward for the pacing of the story. The "next level," I think is being a bit better on the mechanics--although they are good as they are. You couldn't make up your mind whether the period was inside or outside the double quotes in dialogue (inside for the American market), you could cut down on the exclamation points to be more professional, you have hyphens where em dashes should be, you rendered "Then" as "The" in one paragraph opener, "D.C." has periods in it, and you misuse ellipses. Most numbers under 100 are written out in fiction (there are a few exceptions, so this isn't a blanket rule--but most of the numbers you rendered in Arabic should be written out in fiction works).

But I don't think your ratings are going to go up by going to this level. There isn't really any up from where they are in practical terms on a voting system like we have on this Web site.

A better gauge for how good the story is than the rating number is the number of times it is being voted a favorite (and you as an author as well).

I'd say just put your energy into writing more stories--and don't get too concerned or greedy about the ratings.

Hasn't the Tavern on the Green closed?

05-19-2011, 09:38 PM Post #3

I read this because of Penn Lady's comment on the change of tenses from past to present, because stories don't really have to stay in one tense--if there's a good reason to change tense.

There wasn't a good reason to do it in this, however. So, it was just unnecessarily jarring. There was no reason not to stay in past tense. It suddenly became a new level of trite (it had already become trite when you gave physical descriptions before they served the story--and they never really served the story, because they were given no importance in the story).

And it wasn't really a story. It was a sex scene. I didn't find it erotic, either, because it was more of a technical follow-the-dots description pretty much using a formula that thousands have used before. To be erotic, I suggest there should be more emotion in it and more of a storyline in what brings them to having sex and why that means more than just two baboons answering the call of nature. This was sort of "I like your 40d knockers. Suck me. And then she does. Then she wants me to fuck her. So I do. Ooo, baby, ooo."

Sorry, from Penn Lady's comments, I thought it was going to be above run-of-the-mill trimmed down, peg B in slot A. And it wasn't. The good news was that it was more literate than most of this genre.

If this is to be just stud banging a willing slut story (which is popular here, so if that's what you're targeting, it's fine. But if so, it isn't really something to ask for feedback on), I'd expect to see hotter, fresher approach/position sex than this to stand above the ho hum pile. If it was to be an erotic story, I'd expect to see buildup, emotion, rationale for getting to the sex, some element in change in a character or the situation, and a storyline. I didn't see any of that.

That said, your writing and technicals are better than average. It's your storytelling that needs more imagination and more interesting delivery.

Perhaps I would have been less critical of it if I hadn't expected it to be more than I found.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks MistressLynn. Elfin is just making it up as she goes along. And although I do counter her lies, she just keeps repeating them. You'd only have to go back a day or two to find posts where I have responded on questions posed by writers on their stories. The questions appear in more sections than "Story Feedback."

I don't go looking for stories to comment on, that's true. I'm not a vigilante. But when folks ask for comments, I'm as likely to respond as anyone on Lit.--including Elfin, who only responds sporadically herself. The dust she kicks up is to cover that she's no more attentive to new writers here than I am (and she's a lot more prone to citing "rules" to them--most a bunch of crap--than I am).

The truth is that hers isn't a criticism of me for not giving more story comment help. I'm busy writing the stories myself (which she isn't). She doesn't go after any of the other top-twenty prolific authors here (e.g., DGHear, Boxlicker, Selena Kitt, Freddie, SamuelX) for not critiquing the work of others--because they don't do it at all. Just me (although Freddie did it for a while).

Reality is that she goes after me because I so frequently side with the requesting author on a style point rather than the bizarre "rule" she comes up with and then can't back up (there was a thread like this running on the "Editors" section just yesterday).

So, it isn't about what I do or don't do here--it's about what Elfin wants to continue getting away with doing without putting any effort or erotica writing experience into it at all. It's about her campaign to dominate, not mine.

I write and post stories--and give help when I see it might be useful. She sees it as mainly negative because what she usually sees is me trying to keep a writer from trotting down a blind path with her. She just pretends expertise. And she can't pretend being a current story contributor here--because she hasn't posted anything for five years, and her collection of works here is miniscule. She isn't putting much positive contribution into this Web site at all. And even that is overshadowed by her crazy personal attacks.

She's the one who hijacked this thread to go into a vitrolic attack (#8), not me.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Wow! Scouries vs Sr71plt. A true battle of Narcissists! Take heed mere mortals and grab your popcorn this should be fun.[/QUOTE]

What's wrong with the Nude Day theme? Nudity in and of itself falls short of erotic. And it's also limiting as a topic. So, as a theme, it falls flat and requires a push over the top to achieve a particularly good erotica story. (Although being particularly good and erotic don't seem to be requirements for a Lit. theme story contest win.)

Amen. The constant bitcher.

(And so obsessed with me that it's getting pathetic.)

Most of what I write for Literotica I'm trying to make literary porn.

As for responding to comments on the stories, if a critique wasn't requested, I don't think there should be any surprise if the author responds negatively to it.

Bullshit. Most authors want praise. When it gets around to criticizing them on content or presentation, those who "want" it drop off massively. Just because they left the comment button on doesn't mean they want negative comment or "helpful" pointers--often by someone blinder than they are on writing.

You (and so many others) are sucking into classic "just don't get it" here.



I said "literary," not "literature." These are entirely different concepts.

And by "literary porn," I mean works that meet the "literary" designation in the mainstream but that give the sex graphically when it occurs. It's similar to what I'd like to see in movies. Top-notch movies in plot and characterization that just don't pan away or bring out the cheesecloth to drape over the cameras when the sex starts.

The difference is that you are only looking at yourself and speaking for others and I am seeing what the bulk of others doing/have reacted to the issue.



Oh, gawd. No, ye of limited intellectual grasp, literary fiction is a genre, not a dictionary definition of "literary." Earth to Box.

You obviously don't venture out into the mainstream much.

SR71plt, are you this rude and confrontational to people in person? Or is it just an internet thing for you?

You can have disagreements with people without calling them stupid.

Box is exasperatingly stupid on almost any topic except porn writing. As Stella posts later on this thread, by the third exchange, it's time to just say "Oh, gawd" and walk away. If you don't like me doing that, tough. I'll take rude over "pleasant pablum" and stupid any day.

No one who isn't paying $150 for a full edit of a 14,000-word story should expect a full critique. (And I don't see that the OP asked for one.) CWatson concentrated on one aspect of the piece and clearly said it was only one aspect of the piece. There should be no expectation of having to provide a full-blown critique of a 14,000-word piece or pick something "good" out to balance limited comment on one aspect of a story. It's the OP soliciting help, not CWatson deciding to give it unsolicited.

I think colddeisel is out of bounds on his criticism of what CWatson gave.

I think, if this was edited, I'd probably be looking for an editor with more training/ability on punctuation--or, if it is what Australian style supports, is willing and able to defend the punctuation issues seen in this.

Beyond that, I don't have anything to comment on about the story thus far either. Doesn't mean I'm saying it's either good or bad. I haven't read any of it--and don't really plan to.

On the Australian English thing, yes my coauthor is Australian, and, yes, I sense there are differences in Australian style and both American and UK styles. I'm no expert in those differences, though. I know many of the differences between American and British style, as I've worked in both. But my coauthor and I determined early that we were writing for the American market, therefore it's American style we impose on ourselves. Sorry that I can't help with that.

So, if you want to post here in Australian style, I guess you should find an Australian editor--and one who is strong enough in her/his editing to go to bat for you on the style used when criticism comes up.

On punctuation in general, publishing uses more (especially commas) than anyone in any English-speaking country is taught to use for everyday use these days. That's because publishing is conservative and goes to the lowest common denominator on what will clearly mark the story's roadmap for the reader.

On sources to use, the one CWatson cites (Eats, Shoots, Leaves) is a good one. Not comprehensive by any means, nor turned to first by publishers. U.S. publishing uses The Chicago Manual of Style for humanities (which includes all fiction), Fowler's Modern English Usage, Bernstein's The Careful Writer, and Zinsser's On Writing Well. For simple explanations, I suggest American Heritage's English Usage. For really simplied explanations, in workshops I've used Daniels and Daniels, English Grammar, and Ehrlich's Punctuation, Capitalization, and Spelling, both of which give extensive, mostly clear, examples. (Some of the other authorities avoid even mentioning the sort of sticky situations that always seem to be the ones that crop up). For a fun read on the topic, in addition to the one CWatson cites, you could refer to Gordon's The Transitive Vampire.

Maybe an Aussie here can cite an Australian-style authority.

sr has frequently posted his unwillingness to read stories before commenting blindly, whatever your better skills than mine in finding exceptions through search.

Lynn, despite the fact that sr is knowlegable, a good grammarian and editor, he frequently attempts here to hector and bully other commenters who are often less confident, with the same self-serving arrogance that scouries and freddie show. They are much of a muchness, with the same negative effect on the willingness of others to participate on the boards, especially on story feedback..

You wear your erudition lightly and your incisive comments are not only very instructive but also gently and helpfully offered. I appreciate the manner in which you offer assistance and avidly read any comments you make here.

My original point was that a forum like story feedback needs to be addressed in a more sensitive manner than the GB or AH - scouries and sr ride roughshod over that nuance.

With sr's ignorant bleats about commas and (his) purported differences in anglo-saxon style - he is deluded. Australian and UK style support US style and vice versa - he is just plain wrong, but persists in a personal crusade.

 

[sr71plt]

There she goes again.

 

[Corpse_rider]

In defense of Trolls . . .

Many contributors in this thread damn the 'trolls' who leave hurtful or insulting remarks, but consider this - feedback is feedback - someone has taken time and effort to leave regardless of how crude it is they are still reacting to your work. You will find that the best writers with the highest votes do not attract such comments.

 

[Framboise]

Non-trolled feedback...

This does seem like a reasonable expectation, but my experience has been that it doesn't happen. I've tried that route with no luck. I do try to give useful feedback to others, but I haven't seen much quid pro quo.

As with men, I keep my expectations low; then, when they are exceeded, I am pleasantly surprised and even grateful.

I have been here for quite a while - reading only, not commenting or rating anything, until I got my username (yesterday) and submitted my first story (very early today - status pending).

I then went to one of what I consider one of the best stories I have read here (admittedly, I've not read 95% of all of the stories here yet, but there's no requirement to read everything in thirty days of signup) - and I looked at the feedback of this story (or for that matter, any story) for the first time.

Of the five previous comments, four were anonymous and all but entirely negative (only one of these had any sort of specific constructive comment at all).

The one named commenter was polite, but left nothing that I felt was useful to aid the writer in getting better (for those who feel such comments are necessary) - but did say something we all like to hear: "Thank you..."

I saw something that I thought was a specific positive element to the story, thought it helped make the story very good, and said so...and I have, in commenting elsewhere, do try to find something positive to say for all but the utter dross (which I usually just ignore, rather than waste my time and energies eviscerating it).

I have not read in the Romance category much, Sydney, but perhaps I should, so that you would be willing to offer me some quid pro quo, s'il vous plait? Merci mille fois!

 

[SydneyBlake]

I have not read in the Romance category much, Sydney, but perhaps I should, so that you would be willing to offer me some quid pro quo, s'il vous plait? Merci mille fois!

It is surprising that I saw your message, since I abandoned reading this thread some time ago. (When Elfin - who I ignore - and Pilot start going around, I usually check out.). Anyway, please send me the link to your story, and I'll give it a read. Thanks. Syd

 

[lovecraft68]

In defense of Trolls . . .

Many contributors in this thread damn the 'trolls' who leave hurtful or insulting remarks, but consider this - feedback is feedback - someone has taken time and effort to leave regardless of how crude it is they are still reacting to your work. You will find that the best writers with the highest votes do not attract such comments.

Your not getting one fact. The average troll does not even read the story-at least in incest- they go up and down the boards whacking everyone.

 

[SydneyBlake]

Your not getting one fact. The average troll does not even read the story-at least in incest- they go up and down the boards whacking everyone.

Yes, I thought that was the definition of a troll, regardless of genre.

 

[Framboise]

It is surprising that I saw your message, since I abandoned reading this thread some time ago. (When Elfin - who I ignore - and Pilot start going around, I usually check out.). Anyway, please send me the link to your story, and I'll give it a read. Thanks. Syd

LOL - my first story (at least, my first story here) is still pending - probably the powers that be are too busy re-reading your story now - and so far, I can't blame them (too tired to do more than click a "5" on part 2 the other night - sorry - errare humanum est...)

...if you would like, I would send it to you privately, unless the url on my submission page indicates that despite the "pending" status, it is accessible? (Nope - it says "awaiting moderator's approval" error...)

Seriously, I hope the moderator tells me, "I would like you to please edit this, because I see a few problems..." - because I see several of them now...not that the story is bad, but there are a few holes where some better explanation would help...

...my first story (not very explicit sexually, probably would have been in non-consensual category) was in a literature in translation course in college, and that, shall I say, turned out to be worse than a bisexual Klan fish couple on Jerry Springer - and the feedback was live, in color, and almost wholly negative...and partially deserved, I will admit...

...plus, I had to read my story aloud in class before the brickbats came out

 

[Framboise]

Your not getting one fact. The average troll does not even read the story-at least in incest- they go up and down the boards whacking everyone.

...you owe me a new keyboard, monitor, desk blotter, clock, and radio - "whacking everyone"? I haven't laughed this hard since Rose Nylund killed men by sleeping with them...

Are you a fan of "Are You Being Served?", perchance?

 

[Darkniciad]

Seriously, I hope the moderator tells me, "I would like you to please edit this, because I see a few problems..." - because I see several of them now...not that the story is bad, but there are a few holes where some better explanation would help...

If it's still pending, then you can click the pending link and edit the submission. It will reset your position in the queue to the bottom when you finish editing and click "submit", but if it results in a better story on Day 1, it's probably worth it.

 

[bwallard]

I comment as a reader. That is a higher qualification than my years of writing.

It is better for writers to listen to readers than it is for them to listen to writers.

 

[lovecraft68]

I comment as a reader. That is a higher qualification than my years of writing.

It is better for writers to listen to readers than it is for them to listen to writers.

Providing the reader is making a sensible point. Such as; interesting premise but...
Or good story however, the grammar.

Past tense of ....

constructive yes. however the majority of negative feedback given in categories like incest and loving wives is generally just venomous bullshit.

Telling me I am a twisted fuck is not constructive. telling me I am the worst writer in the history of Literotica is not either.

The definition here of troll is that person not someone offering some advice or pointing something out in a fairly mature manner.