Why do you write erotica? Are there things you’d change about it if you could?

[AlinaX]

Ah, that's been the case for a while. It's actually a little depressing to always see the same authors getting promoted in between the celebrity biographies.

 

[desecration]

Ah, that's been the case for a while. It's actually a little depressing to always see the same authors getting promoted in between the celebrity biographies.

I think it's sort of the case with all media, including news/entertainment. Markets tend to have their ups and downs. When they grow too much, either competition or a crash knocks off the extra, and we're sort of waiting for that moment.

 

[16Pleasurez]

I write erotica because it's easy. Whenever I get stuck on a WIP that is non-erotic, I blast out one two pieces of smut or add to an erotic WiP, which gets me back in the linguistic game. Getting stuck on something happens when I have trouble finding descriptors to describe a person's feelings, actions, etc. (My stories are character driven, human experiences)

I just fall back on previous experiences, fantasies (fantasies are to erotica what daydreams are to standard fiction. Same animal, different zoo. Met a lady in Europe in the 80's whose fantasy was to be a MAN sucking dick, and I use her fantasies often) Whichever the case, I do it for the artistic merit. I love to write well. In my 59 years, I have learned that everyone has dirty, filthy, nasty and taboo thoughts, but society makes you feel 2 inches tall if you actually express them. Writers don't have that yoke around their neck. At least I don't, so I use my internal perversions to my professional advantage, and to maybe give someone a hard-on or make their pussy wet in the process.

What can I say, I'm a giver.

Anyway, that's why I write erotica.

I'll be sharing stories here soon.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Why do you write erotica?​

I have always loved reading. I enjoy watching porn, even sometimes now (though we tend to watch together). A few years back, those things combined to have me start reading erotica.

I’ve always wanted to write, but never had any ideas. It all seemed daunting. But I know a lot about sex and have a variety of experiences to draw on. So I thought what not?

I kept at it as a) I enjoy writing smut, and b) I’ve had some very positive and encouraging feedback, particularly from great writers who I respect.

Are there things you’d change about it if you could?​

I see others mentioning age limits and restricting certain content. I am totally fine with the 18+ rule for erotica. Of course we are sexual beings long before that, but I don’t see the rule as stifling creativity. I don’t want to read or write kiddie porn.

I don’t want to ban any type of erotica either. I just wish people would acknowledge the blindingly obvious fact that certain types of porn will further hurt already traumatized people. I wish authors would be more sensitive to other people’s feelings and not think that just because something turns them (or readers) on, that makes is perfectly OK.

I wish people were just nicer and more thoughtful.

Emily

 

[StillStunned]

I wish people were just nicer and more thoughtful.

Careful what you say. To quote Douglas Adams, "And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change..."

 

[AG31]

I don’t want to ban any type of erotica either. I just wish people would acknowledge the blindingly obvious fact that certain types of porn will further hurt already traumatized people. I wish authors would be more sensitive to other people’s feelings and not think that just because something turns them (or readers) on, that makes is perfectly OK.

Acknowledge it how? By not writing what they wish?

 

[KeithD]

Acknowledge it how? By not writing what they wish?

By not minding if, taking responsibility for themselves, they just back out of it and go somewhere else as soon as they can see it will upset them personally. That's the best I could see here. I'm not responsible for other people's hurts and phobias or agreeing to go with the lowest common denominator in this regard.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I'd say welcome to the club, but then that would be against our beliefs.

Was it Groucho Marx that said he wouldn't want to join any club that would have him as a member?

 

[samhasstories]

I don’t want to ban any type of erotica either. I just wish people would acknowledge the blindingly obvious fact that certain types of porn will further hurt already traumatized people. I wish authors would be more sensitive to other people’s feelings and not think that just because something turns them (or readers) on, that makes is perfectly OK.

What do you propose? Trigger warnings? Aren't those sort of built in to category by implication?

I don't want to diminish your legitimate concerns, but couldn't they apply to almost anything, well beyond erotica? Crime stories (true or otherwise), anything with violence, emotional or physical abuse or manipulation, the countless other things that negatively affect people's well-beings. I write stories about public nudity, but people have been traumatized by flashers, by voyeur stalkers. You go to 90% of the movies showing in major theaters right now and you're likely to see gunfire on the streets and in crowded areas, which in reality has taken and ruined countless lives.

Reckoning with the real-world implications of the subjects we write about is worthwhile, and a topic that certainly has a place in this forum, among other places. But does it really need to be done within the worlds of our escapist fictions?

 

[EmilyMiller]

Reckoning with the real-world implications of the subjects we write about is worthwhile, and a topic that certainly has a place in this forum, among other places. But does it really need to be done within the worlds of our escapist fictions?

I’m asking writers to be considerate of what their words can do to other people. We spend eons obsessing about all sorts of shit, I’m suggesting a brief thought for victims of sexual trauma. That doesn’t seem to be a lot to ask. We devote much more time to more trivial matters after all.

It’s not helpful to characterize my request as being systematized and bureaucratic, of course that wouldn’t work. Instead I’m asking one set of humans to think about another set of humans. What’s so difficult about that?

I guess the flaw in my reasoning is that it involves humans and we can be incredibly self-centered sometimes.

Emily

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I’m asking writers to be considerate of what their words can do to other people. We spend eons obsessing about all sorts of shit, I’m suggesting a brief thought for victims of sexual trauma. That doesn’t seem to be a lot to ask. We devote much more time to more trivial matters after all.

It’s not helpful to characterize my request as being systematized and bureaucratic, of course that wouldn’t work. Instead I’m asking one set of humans to think about another set of humans. What’s so difficult about that?

I guess the flaw in my reasoning is that it involves humans and we can be incredibly self-centered sometimes.

Emily

And what would that "being considerate" look like? How would we demonstrate that consideration?

 

[samhasstories]

I’m asking writers to be considerate of what their words can do to other people. We spend eons obsessing about all sorts of shit, I’m suggesting a brief thought for victims of sexual trauma. That doesn’t seem to be a lot to ask. We devote much more time to more trivial matters after all.

It’s not helpful to characterize my request as being systematized and bureaucratic, of course that wouldn’t work. Instead I’m asking one set of humans to think about another set of humans. What’s so difficult about that?

I guess the flaw in my reasoning is that it involves humans and we can be incredibly self-centered sometimes.

Emily

It doesn't seem like a lot to ask, you're right. I guess I'm just asking what that would look like to you. Does that mean we don't write about things that might be triggering to people who have suffered?

 

[EmilyMiller]

Does that mean we don't write about things that might be triggering to people who have suffered?

[I say “you” a lot below, I mean it in the general sense of other writers, not specifically you]

I’m not asking anyone to self-censor. I’m not asking anyone to avoid topics. I have rapes in my own stories, though either the rapist has bad things happen to him (e.g. trying out a new type of pit for Satan, or being shot dead by the female LEO he raped), or the impact on the psyches and bodies of the women involved is realistic (they have trauma that takes years to mitigate). I even have a woman anally rape a guy repeatedly in one story (it’s a satire of the genre). The topic shouldn’t be ignored, it’s appeared in fiction for as long as we have been writing. I’m not saying don’t write about it. I write about it.

The comparison with murder often comes up. Let’s run with that.

What I think is this. It is one thing to have a murder occur in a story. It’s even OK if it’s a particularly grisly murder (as often the case in crime novels, not that I’m an aficionado). It even OK if the murderer gets off on it (I’m thinking something like Se7en). Humans can be as creepy af. But - if the entire point of the story is solely to sexualize / fetishize the actual torture / dismemberment / killing, especially if the intent is to give the reader the viewpoint of the murderer and to share their glee / erection, then I begin to call BS. That’s not gritty writing, it’s not edgy, it’s snuff.

It’s the same with rape. And, in particular, the idea that maybe consent wasn’t given, but she’ll say ‘thank you’ in the end. That’s a rapist’s charter.

So, I’m saying this. If the point of your story is solely to fetishize sex with a woman who doesn’t want sex, to hurt a woman who doesn’t want to be hurt (my affection for consensual impact play is not relevant, before anyone mentions it), then ask yourself why? If the answer is “because I want to, I like that shit,” then at least be honest that you are turned on by the idea of putting another human through Hell.

If that’s your kink, that’s your kink. But don’t be hypocritical about it.

By all means write what you want, but don’t then defend your choice as avoiding your creative scope being compromised, or just being naughty, or transgressive, or fearless in your choice of subject. Call a shovel a shovel.

Sexual assault is something that happens in the real world and it’s not a lot of fun for the victim. I’m only asking for five seconds of thought before writing. If you’re comfortable after that, then have at it.

I’m not suggesting we take away anyone’s freedom, I’m suggesting that people try to be nice.

Emily

 

[Kelliezgirl]

So, as long as someone thinks about it for 5 seconds before they write it, it's OK?

I'm on record here as finding the NC stuff abhorrent while also defending the right to produce it, but I fail to see how what you have proposed is "being considerate".
Being considerate means making sure your stuff is in the proper category and tagged appropriately. That way a reader knows what he or she is getting into. That's not being "nice" it's being responsible. From that point on, caveat emptor.

 

[samhasstories]

[I say “you” a lot below, I mean it in the general sense of other writers, not specifically you]

I’m not asking anyone to self-censor. I’m not asking anyone to avoid topics. I have rapes in my own stories, though either the rapist has bad things happen to him (e.g. trying out a new type of pit for Satan, or being shot dead by the female LEO he raped), or the impact on the psyches and bodies of the women involved is realistic (they have trauma that takes years to mitigate). I even have a woman anally rape a guy repeatedly in one story (it’s a satire of the genre). The topic shouldn’t be ignored, it’s appeared in fiction for as long as we have been writing. I’m not saying don’t write about it. I write about it.

The comparison with murder often comes up. Let’s run with that.

What I think is this. It is one thing to have a murder occur in a story. It’s even OK if it’s a particularly grisly murder (as often the case in crime novels, not that I’m an aficionado). It even OK if the murderer gets off on it (I’m thinking something like Se7en). Humans can be as creepy af. But - if the entire point of the story is solely to sexualize / fetishize the actual torture / dismemberment / killing, especially if the intent is to give the reader the viewpoint of the murderer and to share their glee / erection, then I begin to call BS. That’s not gritty writing, it’s not edgy, it’s snuff.

It’s the same with rape. And, in particular, the idea that maybe consent wasn’t given, but she’ll say ‘thank you’ in the end. That’s a rapist’s charter.

So, I’m saying this. If the point of your story is solely to fetishize sex with a woman who doesn’t want sex, to hurt a woman who doesn’t want to be hurt (my affection for consensual impact play is not relevant, before anyone mentions it), then ask yourself why? If the answer is “because I want to, I like that shit,” then at least be honest that you are turned on by the idea of putting another human through Hell.

If that’s your kink, that’s your kink. But don’t be hypocritical about it.

By all means write what you want, but don’t then defend your choice as avoiding your creative scope being compromised, or just being naughty, or transgressive, or fearless in your choice of subject. Call a shovel a shovel.

Sexual assault is something that happens in the real world and it’s not a lot of fun for the victim. I’m only asking for five seconds of thought before writing. If you’re comfortable after that, then have at it.

I’m not suggesting we take away anyone’s freedom, I’m suggesting that people try to be nice.

Emily

All that's fair enough. Rape and murder are obviously extreme cases. Though violence has absolutely been fetishized in some very popular - and critically acclaimed - entertainment.

But really I thought we were looking at the grayer areas. I won't die on the non-consent hill.

 

[desecration]

celebrity biographies.

I was in a bookstore the other day and thought of this message because the "steal if it you want it" rack by the door was at least half celebrity biographies, absolutely none of which seemed halfway interesting.

 

[AG31]

I’m asking writers to be considerate of what their words can do to other people.

I repeat. What would you have writers do? Not write? Water down their stories to work for the most sensitive people who don't have the sense to stop reading?

 

[EmilyMiller]

I repeat. What would you have writers do? Not write? Water down their stories to work for the most sensitive people who don't have the sense to stop reading?

I have zero interest in debate. I’ve stated what I think very clearly. I’m not going to restate it.

If I get one writer to think just 1% differently, then I’m good. I’ve been round this loop enough times to know that many will not want to even acknowledge my points, let alone take them on board. That’s up to them.

End of my contribution here.

Emily

 

[AchtungNight]

Better yet, find something else worth writing about. Rape is awful, period. How about we write about true love or good clean consensual fun instead? Or good guys defeating bad guys and following it up with a celebration orgy? Or friends enjoying physical fun with one another, no force involved? Stuff like that needs to happen more often in fiction and in real life.

 

[AG31]

[I say “you” a lot below, I mean it in the general sense of other writers, not specifically you]

I’m not asking anyone to self-censor. I’m not asking anyone to avoid topics. I have rapes in my own stories, though either the rapist has bad things happen to him (e.g. trying out a new type of pit for Satan, or being shot dead by the female LEO he raped), or the impact on the psyches and bodies of the women involved is realistic (they have trauma that takes years to mitigate). I even have a woman anally rape a guy repeatedly in one story (it’s a satire of the genre). The topic shouldn’t be ignored, it’s appeared in fiction for as long as we have been writing. I’m not saying don’t write about it. I write about it.

The comparison with murder often comes up. Let’s run with that.

What I think is this. It is one thing to have a murder occur in a story. It’s even OK if it’s a particularly grisly murder (as often the case in crime novels, not that I’m an aficionado). It even OK if the murderer gets off on it (I’m thinking something like Se7en). Humans can be as creepy af. But - if the entire point of the story is solely to sexualize / fetishize the actual torture / dismemberment / killing, especially if the intent is to give the reader the viewpoint of the murderer and to share their glee / erection, then I begin to call BS. That’s not gritty writing, it’s not edgy, it’s snuff.

It’s the same with rape. And, in particular, the idea that maybe consent wasn’t given, but she’ll say ‘thank you’ in the end. That’s a rapist’s charter.

So, I’m saying this. If the point of your story is solely to fetishize sex with a woman who doesn’t want sex, to hurt a woman who doesn’t want to be hurt (my affection for consensual impact play is not relevant, before anyone mentions it), then ask yourself why? If the answer is “because I want to, I like that shit,” then at least be honest that you are turned on by the idea of putting another human through Hell.

If that’s your kink, that’s your kink. But don’t be hypocritical about it.

By all means write what you want, but don’t then defend your choice as avoiding your creative scope being compromised, or just being naughty, or transgressive, or fearless in your choice of subject. Call a shovel a shovel.

Sexual assault is something that happens in the real world and it’s not a lot of fun for the victim. I’m only asking for five seconds of thought before writing. If you’re comfortable after that, then have at it.

I’m not suggesting we take away anyone’s freedom, I’m suggesting that people try to be nice.

Emily

I re-read this more slowly. You're focussing on whether the recipient experiences pleaseure willingly. I think you're not acknowledging the complexity of human experiences and the role that fantasy plays in our lives. Fantasies don't have rules. And if it works for some readers for some writers to share their politically incorrect fantasies, then there's no need to be "nice." Or maybe it's just a different way of being nice.

I asked if you wanted us to water down our writing. I think the answer is "yes," you want us to water it down so it will no longer appeal to those who wanted to read it and instead will be tolerable for those who never wanted to read it in the first place.

 

[AG31]

Better yet, find something else worth writing about. Rape is awful, period. How about we write about true love or good clean consensual fun instead? Or good guys defeating bad guys and following it up with a celebration orgy? Or friends enjoying physical fun with one another, no force involved? Stuff like that needs to happen more often in fiction and in real life.

Because humans are more complicated than that. See my reply #121.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Better yet, find something else worth writing about.

The honest answer is - because they like writing about things like that. It’s not any more complicated. People tie themselves in knots of attempted justification, precisely because it’s hard to justify what is really going on.

Anyway. This thread is bad for my mental health. Later.

Emily

 

[AchtungNight]

Ok, more detailed advice. If you don't like traumatic stuff in stories, don't write OR read about it. Let those who are into it go hang out in the corner over there conveniently marked with the laser sight for the orbital death ray (obvious kidding sarcasm) and ignore them. Meanwhile find other things you are into, and write or read about those. Find and enjoy your own audience. Does that sound better?

Seriously, folks, I did not start this thread to discuss this sort of thing. Let's stop talking about it, okay? Thanks.

 

[UWERETHINKINGIT]

[I say “you” a lot below, I mean it in the general sense of other writers, not specifically you]

I’m not asking anyone to self-censor. I’m not asking anyone to avoid topics. I have rapes in my own stories, though either the rapist has bad things happen to him (e.g. trying out a new type of pit for Satan, or being shot dead by the female LEO he raped), or the impact on the psyches and bodies of the women involved is realistic (they have trauma that takes years to mitigate). I even have a woman anally rape a guy repeatedly in one story (it’s a satire of the genre). The topic shouldn’t be ignored, it’s appeared in fiction for as long as we have been writing. I’m not saying don’t write about it. I write about it.

The comparison with murder often comes up. Let’s run with that.

What I think is this. It is one thing to have a murder occur in a story. It’s even OK if it’s a particularly grisly murder (as often the case in crime novels, not that I’m an aficionado). It even OK if the murderer gets off on it (I’m thinking something like Se7en). Humans can be as creepy af. But - if the entire point of the story is solely to sexualize / fetishize the actual torture / dismemberment / killing, especially if the intent is to give the reader the viewpoint of the murderer and to share their glee / erection, then I begin to call BS. That’s not gritty writing, it’s not edgy, it’s snuff.

It’s the same with rape. And, in particular, the idea that maybe consent wasn’t given, but she’ll say ‘thank you’ in the end. That’s a rapist’s charter.

So, I’m saying this. If the point of your story is solely to fetishize sex with a woman who doesn’t want sex, to hurt a woman who doesn’t want to be hurt (my affection for consensual impact play is not relevant, before anyone mentions it), then ask yourself why? If the answer is “because I want to, I like that shit,” then at least be honest that you are turned on by the idea of putting another human through Hell.

If that’s your kink, that’s your kink. But don’t be hypocritical about it.

By all means write what you want, but don’t then defend your choice as avoiding your creative scope being compromised, or just being naughty, or transgressive, or fearless in your choice of subject. Call a shovel a shovel.

Sexual assault is something that happens in the real world and it’s not a lot of fun for the victim. I’m only asking for five seconds of thought before writing. If you’re comfortable after that, then have at it.

I’m not suggesting we take away anyone’s freedom, I’m suggesting that people try to be nice.

Emily

 

[ElectricBlue]

Was it Groucho Marx that said he wouldn't want to join any club that would have him as a member?

Yes.