Why The Holocaust Must Be Questioned

[ImpWizard]

(to Drinking Cap above) What the fuck is "actual" information?

All it means is you approve that source against others and provides no measure of validity.

Yep. The bullshit pretense that Wikipedia is a "good reliable source" - but Interpol, the BKA, DEFRA, and all forms of scientific studies are obviously "wrong" because their facts happen to support a Revisionist argument.

You see, their absurd logic is;
Holocaust Propaganda = GOOD
Any kind of questioning of the Holocaust = BAD

It's a religion. You have belieeeeve....

(to Drinking Cap)
In the Holocaust debate, it is extremely difficult to tie believers down to debate specific points and the gas van discussion shows the usual distinct lack of interest in providing validating evidence to support the holocaust myth.

Let's see what a typical "believer" says to support his religion;

Wonder what a President like Harry Truman would do now?
Originally Posted by hurricane64
This thread is simply in the tradition of the concept of a flat Earth, men that didn't go to the moon, etc.
But the Earth is flat. I saw Monty Python's The Meaning of Life so I know. The rest of you should watch and take heed...
Originally Posted by hurricane64
My God, is this exercise in idiocy still going on?
Originally Posted by hurricane64
The Crimson Permanent Assurance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, you're right woody54 ol'buddy. Perfect example in hurricane64 above ^

(to Drinking Cap)
Most of the points raised by Holocaust questioners are rooted in science, reality and logic, thereby being very difficult to disprove by those who have a mythology to protect from a real world.

I wonder if somebody can prove these silly Gas Vans are workable, and the Diesel gas chambers to go with them. I havemy doubts.

(to Drinking Cap)
The mountain of bullshit is from the pro-zionist side because i am still waiting for anyone to prove beyond doubt that one jew was gassed by the germans. How about some "actual" evidence on that one instead of generalised dismissals of the questions for those who want to know the real truth.

I'm waiting too. Been waiting a LOOONG time.

 

[ImpWizard]

Yup. Just me and the entire world, save for a few lone idiots who believe things like the moon landing was faked and the pyramids were built by aliens. What a lonely group to belong to.

You're showing blatant signs of delusional mania again.

I don't belong to any group which believes in that nonsense that you believe in.

Especially as there's good solid evidence of the Moon landings but there's zero credible evidence for the claims that Jews were being gassed in those IMPOSSIBLE gas vans.

1) We have moon rocks from the Moon. Scientists can even physically test them.
2) We have film and recorded tapes of astronauts walking on the Moon.
3) It's scientifically plausible and possible for the moon landings to have occurred.
4) Tens of millions of people all over the world watched the first Moon landing on TV as it happened.
5) There are actual original documents supporting the existence of the space program and all missions.

Versus for the allegedly murderous Gas Vans.

1) No Gas Vans exist, not even a piece of one. No scientist has ever seen one, and there's nothing for anyone to test.
2) No film of a Gas Van in operation or even how one would operate. Just one photo of the wrong kind of truck.
3) Gas Vans can't be shown to be scientifically plausible, and in fact the way they are described is impossible in every way.
4) All we have is very suspect, contradictory testimony from alleged "witnesses" and hearsay which can not agree on whether the Gas Vans had windows or no windows, whether they sat and idled or moved, whether they had double doors or single doors, whether the doors were wood or metal, whether there were holes in the roof or not...
5) There are no original documents of any kind supporting the claims of the existence of these impossible Gas Vans, and the alleged documents are only unsubstantiated copies which come in multiple versions which disagree and contradict each other, showing clear evidence that most of them - if not all of them - are forgeries. Documentary wise, they're even less credible than the "Uranium from Niger" documents that G W Bush and his zionist buddies in the US govt tried to flog as evidence for "WMDs in Iraq".

 

[Drinking Cap]

You're showing blatant signs of delusional mania again.

I don't belong to any group which believes in that nonsense that you believe in.

You need to work on that reading, champ.

 

[ImpWizard]

You need to work on that reading, champ.

Is that the best you can come up with?

I'm still waiting for you to cite a source or even provide rational argument.

Tell me, do you believe that Jews were killed in those Gas Vans, and if so can you support this belief with evidence which can counter that which has already been cited against claims of their existence?

Do you believe that Moshe Peer was sent to the gas chamber and survived six times being gassed as a child, and if so can you support this belief with evidence?

Do you believe Elie Wiesel's claims that there were geysers of blood shooting up from the ground for months or even for a single day? If so can you support this belief with evidence?

Do you believe that there was a barber shop operating in the gas chamber at Treblinka with the barbers, with five minutes between gassings? Can you support this belief with evidence?

 

[unculbact]

Here's a credible reference. When converting your 1960's era Mustang to dual exhaust, be sure to mind the rubber hoses in the brake system.

"Why were all different metal lines and a different rear flex hose used on early dual exhaust Mustangs and the flex hose mounting bracket moved? The answer is to move the rubber flex hose away from the driver's side tail pipe. If dual exhaust is added and the rear flex hose is not relocated, it will - in most cases - rest on or extremely close to the tail pipe. Heat from the tail pipe will either melt this rubber hose or cause it to dry out and eventually rupture."

http://www.karmustang.com/dual_exhaust_conversion.php

That brake line hose is made out of Buna-N.

I wonder how the Nazi's solved this problem when pumping exhaust into a gas van?

Two problems, actually. According to the descriptions, when not gassing people, that rubber linking hose was re-connected to the tailpipe, and formed an integral part of the exhaust system during normal driving operations.

So when driving from Kharkov to Kiev, again - how to keep the rubber hose from melting?

 

[miles]

He hasn't got any actual information. Have you ever seen Drinking Cap even cite a single source on this subject? I haven't. He's as moronically useless as Miles.

Oh, God. Another asshole suffering from Jewish Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.

If it weren't for the fact that everyone on Lit is laughing at you, you'd be a totally useless piece of shit.

 

[nyminus]

Oh, God. Another asshole suffering from Jewish Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.

If it weren't for the fact that everyone on Lit is laughing at you, you'd be a totally useless piece of shit.

You sound like a broken record with the ' everyone on Lit is laughing at you' ploy. It don't work dude..we all know that everyone is laughing at you.

 

[phrodeau]

Learn something new everyday.

Now I know why she kept saying that the BKA examination in 1980 said that it was writing from a ballpoint pen of a make and model that didn't exist until 1951. I didn't think they could be wrong about the ballpoint pens not being invented yet, even though that's the thing everyone keeps (wrongly) going on about, because the BKA experts would already know that ballpoints had been around longer than that. So why did they state it was a 1951 or later make of ballpoint pen? - Because the ink on the paper was a glycol thinner based ink made for ballpoint pens that didn't exist until 1951

It's very difficult to tell the exact age of inks of the same chemical composition (according to this document from Interpol in 2004 http://www.interpol.int/Public/Forensic/IFSS/meeting14/ReviewPapers.pdf ). The only way for the BKA to positively identify the ink as being from a ballpoint pen of a make that did not exist until 1951 was by the chemical composition of the ink. Prior to 1951, the ballpoint pens used an oil-based solvent (according to that Bundeskriminalamt forensics study of inks pdf file that Lovelynice cited), and only from 1951 until the 1960s did they use a glycol solvent. That was the only way that the BKA could identify the ink as being from a ballpoint pen of 1951 or later.

I also noticed the very careful and circumspect wording of all those experts;

1) Handwriting was from the same person but they avoid saying who that person was. That allows the pretense to continue that it must've been Anne Frank when the handwriting experts don't specifically state that.

2) Handwriting from the examplars matching, but they avoid saying whether that was only the alleged diary or whether that includes postcards and other letters - and it's easy for anyone to see that although the handwriting in the diary is the same style on every page, it clearly doesn't match that of Anne Frank's postcards and letters.

3) In 1986 (6 years after their 1980 investigation), the BKA couldn't point out where the corrections and notations with ballpoint ink were in the alleged diary, although they were very clear in their 1980 report that all the alleged diary volumes had corrections and notations, and the 4th volume was largely written in that same ballpoint ink from 1951 or later. That tells 2 things since they aren't going to contradict their earlier forensics study;
- a) The alleged diary volumes examined in 1980 had corrections and notations in that 1951 ballpoint ink, and the 4th volume was largely written in this same 1951 ballpoint ink.
- b) The alleged diary volumes examined in 1986 did not have ANY corrections and notations which means they weren't the same alleged diaries that were examined in 1980.

Somebody pulled a fast one on the Bundeskriminalamt in other words.

I posted this back on page 27, but I guess you haven't read it:

Denying the Holocaust
By Deborah Lipstadt

Diary of Anne Frank

Deniers have repeatedly attacked the authenticity of the famous Diary of Anne Frank, which tells of the young Jewish author's experiences as she and her family hid from Nazi persecution in Holland. It seems they believe that by creating doubts about this popular book, which is often a young person's first encounter with the literature of the Holocaust, they can generate broader doubts about the Holocaust itself. Their attacks on the diary became so widespread, that eventually the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation, the archives to which Anne's father left the work, subjected the glue, paper and ink of the diary to extensive forensic tests. They found them all to be from the 1940s.

The investigators compared Anne's handwriting in the diary to other samples of her writing, including letters she wrote before going into hiding, and traditional student autograph books she signed before the war. The tests found the handwriting to be that of the same person. In fact, every test to which the diary was subjected proved that this was a genuine World War Two era work by a teenager.

Deniers also argue that there are multiple versions of the Diary of Anne Frank. This, they claim, proves it is a fraud. Actually, there are multiple versions of the diary, and Anne herself explains why this is so. In 1944, a Dutch government official, broadcasting from London, urged the population to save eyewitness accounts of their wartime experience, including memorabilia and diaries. Hearing this, Anne, decided to rewrite some of the entries. She also used her diary as a basis for a novel, The Annexe. Hence the different versions.

Deniers also make the claim that the diary is in green ballpoint pen, something that was not readily available during the war. And there are, in fact, some minor stylistic marginal notes in green ink. However, as the Dutch investigation demonstrated, the only ballpoint writing is on two scraps of paper included among the loose leaves, and these have no significance whatsoever in terms of content. Moreover, the handwriting on the scraps of paper differs markedly from those in the diary, indicating that they were written by someone else, an editor perhaps.

Please explain how the BKA and the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation performed the same tests, but arrived at different results.

Of course, you would need to accept that testing for glycol might not be the only way to arrive at their conclusion. "Making a guess" would also suffice.

 

[hogjack]

Are there any rubber chickens being misused in this thread?

 

[Lovelynice]

Is that the best you can come up with?

I'm still waiting for you to cite a source or even provide rational argument.

Tell me, do you believe that Jews were killed in those Gas Vans, and if so can you support this belief with evidence which can counter that which has already been cited against claims of their existence?

Do you believe that Moshe Peer was sent to the gas chamber and survived six times being gassed as a child, and if so can you support this belief with evidence?

Do you believe Elie Wiesel's claims that there were geysers of blood shooting up from the ground for months or even for a single day? If so can you support this belief with evidence?

Do you believe that there was a barber shop operating in the gas chamber at Treblinka with the barbers, with five minutes between gassings? Can you support this belief with evidence?

NONE of them will do that. They'll just dodge the subject all the time like they usually do...

 

[Lovelynice]

I posted this back on page 27, but I guess you haven't read it: Please explain how the BKA and the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation performed the same tests, but arrived at different results.

Do you have a better explanation than the one ImpWizard already offered?

3) In 1986 (6 years after their 1980 investigation), the BKA couldn't point out where the corrections and notations with ballpoint ink were in the alleged diary, although they were very clear in their 1980 report that all the alleged diary volumes had corrections and notations, and the 4th volume was largely written in that same ballpoint ink from 1951 or later. That tells 2 things since they aren't going to contradict their earlier forensics study;
- a) The alleged diary volumes examined in 1980 had corrections and notations in that 1951 ballpoint ink, and the 4th volume was largely written in this same 1951 ballpoint ink.
- b) The alleged diary volumes examined in 1986 did not have ANY corrections and notations which means they weren't the same alleged diaries that were examined in 1980.

You see phrodeau, either the corrections and notations written with 1951 ballpoint ink magically disappeared between 1980 and 1986, or those alleged diaries submitted for testing in 1986 were a completely different set of papers altogether.

I guess you'll go for the "magic" explanation, right?

 

[Lovelynice]

Talking about magic again

I'd heard about this problem with the Holocaust claim that "six million Jews died" in that the population figures worldwide didn't show this...

Even though we get it rammed down our throats repeatedly, without any real evidence all the way through school.

But I wasn't sure until I came across the (very hard to find) world population figures for Jews. Of course I could just tell you what they are, but our Holocaust Propagandists would just make their usual excuses and quote from unreliable sources like wikipedia (word of God indeed... not likely)

So here's the scans of the relevant pages instead for everyone to see for themselves.

The 1940 World Almanac

Worldwide population of Jews = 15,192,089


The 1948 World Almanac

Worldwide population of Jews = 15,713,638

So...let's see where did those SIX MILLION JEWS come from that died?
Very odd, as the Jewish population WORLDWIDE didn't go down, like everyone else who was dying and fighting in a horrible war that wiped out a couple of hundred million non-Jews.

No, instead of going down,the WORLDWIDE population of Jews went UP.

I guess they magically appeared out of thin air and went into those magic gas chambers that nobody can prove worked, and into those IMPOSSIBLE TO EXIST "gas vans" and "diesel gas chambers", and magically disappeared again...or somebody is telling GREAT BIG WHOPPING LIES!!!

So we have a claim of six million dying, um....so where did they come from? Outer Space? Mars maybe? Dimension-X?

It looks like it was a lot smaller than six million. A LOT smaller....and non-Jews died a lot more and suffered a lot more from WW2 as well....

This is fucked. Honestly, it's fucking sickening that we've been lied to this much.

 

[Drinking Cap]

Is that the best you can come up with?

No. But it is the best that I'm willing to give a nutjob like you. Why would I go to the trouble of posting links to all the thousands of pieces of academic research establishing what 99.9% of the Western world has accepted as fact about the holocaust, which would really be no trouble at all, just to give you and your moronic friends the chance to write "It's all just Zionist brainwashing! I demand you find me a source that conclusively proves there is a Germany!"

Outside of blowing off some steam by name calling you, sir, are a complete waste of anyone with even a half a brain's time.

 

[Lovelynice]

Look at those population figures, DC and tell me WHERE you see a drop in Jewish population equivalent to that of six million dying?

Wake up. You're either a tool or a fool.

 

[Drinking Cap]

Worldwide population of Jews = 15,319,359

Yes. You have such a strong and unwavering commitment to the truth that you can't even correctly quote the page that you yourself just posted. The 1940 almanac clearly has the population at 15,192, 089 and yet you write an entirely different number.

With researching skills like that, it's no wonder so many people believe the holocaust was a sham!

 

[Drinking Cap]

Hey, but you can go back and change things in the future. I guess that's why they call you folks revisionists.

 

[Lovelynice]

Yes. You have such a strong and unwavering commitment to the truth that you can't even correctly quote the page that you yourself just posted. The 1940 almanac clearly has the population at 15,192, 089 and yet you write an entirely different number.

With researching skills like that, it's no wonder so many people believe the holocaust was a sham!

I was in the middle of fucking edit you idiot. Plus that page is damn hard to read on my little laptop.

 

[Drinking Cap]

I was in the middle of fucking edit you idiot. Plus that page is damn hard to read on my little laptop.

So you just guessed at the number? Heck of a way to make your point.

 

[Lovelynice]

Hey, but you can go back and change things in the future. I guess that's why they call you folks revisionists.

Look at those population figures, DC and tell me WHERE you see a drop in Jewish population equivalent to that of six million dying?

Wake up. You're either a tool or a fool.

Well, come on ... we're waiting to see if you actually have a brain. Or should I put you back on ignore again since you're a waste of air anyway.

Answer the question. Where did the six million magic people come from???

Well? Is math a little beyond you?

Can you think for yourself or are you so fantastically gullible that you can't change your mind because you've been DEEPLY brainwashed.

Wakey-wakey, rise and shine. Use that brain of your and give a proper answer.

 

[Lovelynice]

So you just guessed at the number? Heck of a way to make your point.

Do you have a brain to think with? I'm waiting for you to prove it.

So far you are doing a grand job of simulating stupidity.

WHERE did the magic six million Jews that died come from???

 

[Drinking Cap]

Answer the question. Where did the six million magic people come from???

Here's a better question. What methods could the world almanac have used, given the state of the world in both 1940 and 1948, to get even a halfway accurate number of the population of anyone? What methods did they use?

And, still, that's giving a faded scan of a few pages from an unverifiable book a million times more credibility than they deserve.

 

[Drinking Cap]

and, just for the record, the fact that people so catastrophically stupid that they deny the holocaust think me stupid or foolish really isn't much of a blow to my self-esteem. Heck, it validates me. So keep those insults coming!

 

[Drinking Cap]

"There is no debate among historians about the actuality of the Holocaust. . . there can be no doubt that the Nazi state systematically put to death millions of Jews, Gypsies, political radicals and other people."

- History departmen, Duke University

"If the Holocaust is not a fact, then nothing is a fact. . . ."

- History department, Rutgers University

"No serious historian questions that the Holocaust took place."

- American Historical Association


But you know who I'm going to believe? A bunch of ignorant cranks on the internet who says that they have the real proof that those evil brainwashing jews don't want you to see.

 

[Lovelynice]

Here's a better question. What methods could the world almanac have used, given the state of the world in both 1940 and 1948, to get even a halfway accurate number of the population of anyone? What methods did they use?

And, still, that's giving a faded scan of a few pages from an unverifiable book a million times more credibility than they deserve.

Must be so very hard to see your religious beliefs destroyed.

You appear to be having such great difficulty in waking up. So are you are you a tool or a fool?

Here's some more...

PRE-WAR
World Almanac, 1925, pg. 752 -- 15,630,000, "In 1925 a census of Palestine gave a total of 115,151 Jews"

World Almanac, 1929, pg. 727 -- 15,630,000

National Council of Churches 1930 -- 15,600 ,000

March 24, 1933, Jewish newspaper Daily Express -- 14,000,000 Jews worldwide

World Almanac, 1933, pg. 419 -- 15,316,359, ["The estimate for Jews in the above table is for 1933, and is by the American Jewish Committee"

World Almanac, 1936, pg. 748 -- world Jewish population = 15,753,633

World Almanac, 1938, pg. 510 -- world Jewish population = 15,748,091, with 240,000 in Germany

American Jewish Committee Bureau of the Synagogue Council, 1939 -- 15,600,000



POST-WAR
World Almanac USA, 1947, pg. 748: World Jewish Population -- 15,690,000

World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population -- 15,713,638

Statistical Handbook of Council of Churches USA 1951 -- 15,300,000


Whatever the variance, it's certainly nothing like six million people appearing and disappearing again.

It all fits the deathtolls in the 1979 Arolsen Red Cross report (which ImpWizard posted) much better...

Nothing like a six million death toll here either...

 

[Drinking Cap]

Must be so very hard to see your religious beliefs destroyed.

Not really. You didn't answer my question, mainly, it concerns the methods used by anyone claiming to have an accurate count of the number of European jews in those years. Do you know what methods were used?