Why We Find It Difficult To Give Your Poem Feedback

[Angeline]

The best feedback comes from workshopping a poem. Mostly people don't do that. They put something on the wall and tell all their friends "Hey I put something on the wall. Pet me." And their friends pet them. And they never question their absolute perfection.

Workshopping is a process that requires a reader to deeply read a piece and sit with it for awhile. It requires the reader to respond honestly and not just pose as some clever bastard. It requires a knowledge of the language in which the poem was written. Mostly, it requires giving a shit. This is why we rarely do it.

This would be great except that most workshop situations I've been in seem to be more about mutual masturbation and working toward an ideal expressed by the style of the most popular poet(s) at the workshop. I have gotten weary of having to wade through all that politesse just to get a few superficial comments. I typically find myself giving a lot more than I get back. I wish it were different but we poets are an ego-driven needy bunch....

Just my observation.

xo,
S.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

This would be great except that most workshop situations I've been in seem to be more about mutual masturbation and working toward an ideal expressed by the style of the most popular poet(s) at the workshop. I have gotten weary of having to wade through all that politesse just to get a few superficial comments. I typically find myself giving a lot more than I get back. I wish it were different but we poets are an ego-driven needy bunch....

Just my observation.

xo,
S.

I am so glad I've never been to any workshops you've been unfortunate enough to attend! I used to run one every Saturday in which every person (no matter level of experience) gave feedback in a guided process. This workshop model was based on workshopping done in Creative Writing courses in college. I have found this type of feedback process much more useful than getting random comments on a posted poem.

Mostly on a posted poem I get no comments. I think in my 8 years here on Lit, I received one comment that was useful toward editing on a poem that was posted on the submissions site. All those years ago I received valuable advice from a well regarded poet here that I should focus on using this space to create work if that works for me and then to submit my poems for publication elsewhere if the goal is to be read or to workshop in some place where poets do that if the goal is to refine a poem. Thus, there are other forums where I have gone to get more detailed feedback but even then I found the workshop process as detailed above much more helpful.

Still, no forum beats this one for me in terms of stimulating the desire to write new work. This is because I get to read and respond to poets who inspire me for one reason or another.

Hope you enjoy the holiday weekend, Ange. Come read again Sunday night if you're not out camping or something.

Cheers,
Dora

 

[Tzara]

The best feedback comes from workshopping a poem. Mostly people don't do that. They put something on the wall and tell all their friends "Hey I put something on the wall. Pet me." And their friends pet them. And they never question their absolute perfection.

Workshopping is a process that requires a reader to deeply read a piece and sit with it for awhile. It requires the reader to respond honestly and not just pose as some clever bastard. It requires a knowledge of the language in which the poem was written. Mostly, it requires giving a shit. This is why we rarely do it.

From what I've read, workshopping a poem results in the best feedback, but the quality of the feedback is very dependent on which poets are in the workshop, what their mutual level of craft is, and how they get along. If you have a group, PG, that is congenial, fairly equal in level of expertise, and not confrontative nor individually ambitious, you should cherish it. That's the gold standard of mutual criticism.

The kind of thing I'm thinking of is the collaboration of Maxine Kumin and Anne Sexton and their luck in linking up, early in their careers, with a group led by Robert Lowell. From what I've read, Kumin and Sexton were open and honest with each other about the other's work, but friends as well.

Writers need honest comment from competent readers but they also need support, as we all go through what bogus aptly named "creative doubt."

 

[Tzara]

This would be great except that most workshop situations I've been in seem to be more about mutual masturbation and working toward an ideal expressed by the style of the most popular poet(s) at the workshop. I have gotten weary of having to wade through all that politesse just to get a few superficial comments. I typically find myself giving a lot more than I get back. I wish it were different but we poets are an ego-driven needy bunch....

Just my observation.

I think this is the problem with most criticism (I won't say workshops, since I haven't been part of a proper workshop, but certainly my experience on poetry websites is like this).

I actually can think of a few writers here who I think might form a pretty productive workshop if the coffee shop (or bar) we met at wasn't virtual.

It's kinda hard to find a convenient meeting place for people so dispersed, though. And I suspect the face-to-face aspect is, while not exactly a requirement, pretty near so.