Workers win and UAW loses

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

No, it's a matter of not taking it up the ass from the union. In the 19th Century, from what I have read, the unions were highly beneficial and actually protected workers from company excesses. However, currently the unions are the ones gouging from the workers' paychecks and forcing them to do things they don't want to because the union bosses have a political agenda.

Most of the men in my family were union sheet metal workers. Twenty-something years ago some of the big shots in Washington stole the pension fund. A few of them had the decency to die, and a few went to prison. A while back one of the crew was released from prison and applied for a union pension, the union rejected the application but SCOTUS let him have it, saying getting a pension and stealing the pension fund are not related. A couple of my uncles didn't get their pensions, so it always seemed to me that there was a relationship twixt the pension and its theft.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Electing people the union bosses favor, usually Dems or the self-styled Progressives. Or supporting referenda they like, even though the rank and file might oppose them.

Which is pretty much part of their jobs. Republicans want to dismantle unions, I suppose if you could prove they are choosing the wrong type of democrat you'd have an argument but the rest of this is clearly defined as doing their job.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Union bosses fuck themselves. Twenty years with the state I saw our business agent zero times, all the union wanted was dues.

 

[jeninflorida]

Union bosses fuck themselves. Twenty years with the state I saw our business agent zero times, all the union wanted was dues.

what value does the Union add?

do those in and for the union realize that this isn't 1919? I mean, WTF, wake up, union's haven't added any value for fifty years and now they just dream up bullshit crap to keep their jobs.

those that are pro union, are out of touch with reality.

just the simple fact that 'government' workers need a union for protection shows that A). government is fucked. B). union is fucked

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

Labor unions have been around in some form forever and with good reason. Management can't be trusted. I've had considerable experience working in a factory as member of the steal workers union and in government as a manager. Speaking from experience, I think people are out of their minds to give up an opportunity to be protected from management.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Labor unions have been around in some form forever and with good reason. Management can't be trusted. I've had considerable experience working in a factory as member of the steal workers union and in government as a manager. Speaking from experience, I think people are out of their minds to give up an opportunity to be protected from management.

But who will protect them from the unions? Have you ever heard of people like Hoffa and Beck?

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

But who will protect them from the unions? Have you ever heard of people like Hoffa and Beck?

I know about unions. I was a union member. I know about the evils of the unions, but like many people around here, I don't see this issue as black and white. Upon considering the aggregate, on balance, I favor labor unions.

The last gig I had was non union. I saw first hand how management abuses workers when they can get away with it.

 

[koalabear]

I know about unions. I was a union member. I know about the evils of the unions, but like many people around here, I don't see this issue as black and white. Upon considering the aggregate, on balance, I favor labor unions.

The last gig I had was non union. I saw first hand how management abuses workers when they can get away with it.

Shovel faster next time.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

Shovel faster next time.

isn't it about time for you to shoot yourself while cleaning one of your toys?

 

[koalabear]

isn't it about time for you to shoot yourself while cleaning one of your toys?

Guns are not toys, but a retard like you probably thinks they are.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post

Electing people the union bosses favor, usually Dems or the self-styled Progressives. Or supporting referenda they like, even though the rank and file might oppose them.

Which is pretty much part of their jobs. Republicans want to dismantle unions, I suppose if you could prove they are choosing the wrong type of democrat you'd have an argument but the rest of this is clearly defined as doing their job.

This is a good example of the paternalism of the Dems:

Worker: I want to support McCain, the war hero.

Union Boss: Oh, no, you don't. You have to support the other candidate. Why? Because I said so, and I know best, little children.

Worker: I don't believe in gay marriage. I want to vote against it and campaign against it.

Union Boss: Oh, no, you don't. You have to support the same sex marriage initiative. Why? Because I said so, and I know best, little children.

For what it's worth, I see nothing wrong with two persons of the same gender forming a marriage contract, and I always vote in favor of them. At the same time, I know there are some who oppose such a contract, and I believe those people have a right to be heard and should not be required to financially support an issue they actually oppose.

As I have been saying, Dems and Libs. have a paternalistic viewpoint. They believe they know better and that people should listen to them and do as they say, much like mothers and fathers claim to know what's best for their children.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

Guns are not toys, but a retard like you probably thinks they are.

Not toys when handled by real men!

 

[koalabear]

Not toys when handled by real men!

You wouldn't know. Best way for you to find a job and hold it, have a skill and stop counting on the Union to save your unskilled ass.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

You wouldn't know. Best way for you to find a job and hold it, have a skill and stop counting on the Union to save your unskilled ass.

Oh, I got skills. And as soon as weed is legalized I will be highly in demand for my custom rolled joints.

 

[jeninflorida]

Labor unions have been around in some form forever and with good reason. Management can't be trusted. I've had considerable experience working in a factory as member of the steal workers union and in government as a manager. Speaking from experience, I think people are out of their minds to give up an opportunity to be protected from management.

please exit out of the nineteenth century and join us in the twentieth

the reason why you feel that way about "management" is that you are clearly guilty .... being what? lazy...bad worker?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Labor unions have been around in some form forever and with good reason. Management can't be trusted. I've had considerable experience working in a factory as member of the steal workers union and in government as a manager. Speaking from experience, I think people are out of their minds to give up an opportunity to be protected from management.

To some extent if you count guilds as unions, which they effectively are/were, they outdate management in some fields.

This is a good example of the paternalism of the Dems:

Worker: I want to support McCain, the war hero.

Union Boss: Oh, no, you don't. You have to support the other candidate. Why? Because I said so, and I know best, little children.

Worker: I don't believe in gay marriage. I want to vote against it and campaign against it.

Union Boss: Oh, no, you don't. You have to support the same sex marriage initiative. Why? Because I said so, and I know best, little children.

Except that doesn't happen. The union may stand behind whoever the union boss does but they don't actually control who you vote for, what other organizations you join or anything like that. They don't muzzle you, they use your collective might as a tool as well they should.

What your describing is how an organization works by the way lets try this.

American: I don't think we should have an embargo on Cuba. I want to go spend a week in Cuba.

President: Oh no you don't. They are dirty commies down there and if you travel there you might infect us with Commie Cooties.

American: I don't think Israel is blameless in this war.

President: Do I look like I care? I'm a Christian and God's Chosen People are never wrong!

American: I we should cut subsidies for oil companies.

President: My Daddy and my daddy's daddy drilled oil for a livin' I think I'll keep that money flowing to my friends and family thank you very much.

American: I don't think Churches/Temples/Mosques should be tax free. I don't see why I have to support via my tax dollars people who worship God/Yahweh/Allah.

You don't always get the right to choose if your money supports it. Don't like it? Get a new job with a different union that has different goals. Of course Republicans could turn this around in a second by simply dropping opposition to unions so that those people could put their heft behind social things. That however is a choice they made.

For what it's worth, I see nothing wrong with two persons of the same gender forming a marriage contract, and I always vote in favor of them. At the same time, I know there are some who oppose such a contract, and I believe those people have a right to be heard and should not be required to financially support an issue they actually oppose.

As I have been saying, Dems and Libs. have a paternalistic viewpoint. They believe they know better and that people should listen to them and do as they say, much like mothers and fathers claim to know what's best for their children.

Seriously, why can't you quote?! It isn't that hard.

I'm not sure how it's more paternalistic than Conservatives and abortion rights and gay marriage. That said if you want to stick with the false idea that libs know better than you what to do that's fine. Because by and large it's true and has been proven true time and time again. There is a reason why every successful society has certain things ourselves included.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

jenn, you fucking moron. I have you on iggy but for old times sake I'd like to say, fuq u!

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post

This is a good example of the paternalism of the Dems:

Worker: I want to support McCain, the war hero.

Union Boss: Oh, no, you don't. You have to support the other candidate. Why? Because I said so, and I know best, little children.

Worker: I don't believe in gay marriage. I want to vote against it and campaign against it.

Union Boss: Oh, no, you don't. You have to support the same sex marriage initiative. Why? Because I said so, and I know best, little children.

Except that doesn't happen. The union may stand behind whoever the union boss does but they don't actually control who you vote for, what other organizations you join or anything like that. They don't muzzle you, they use your collective might as a tool as well they should.

They can't control how I vote in a general election but unions have been known to try to control how members vote in union elections, partly by requiring public voting rather than secret ballot. As I said earlier, they use member dues and whatever other money they can gouge out of them to financially support candidates and propositions whether the individual members like it or not. They also punish those who cross picket lines or join organizations the unions dislike.

What your describing is how an organization works by the way lets try this.

American: I don't think we should have an embargo on Cuba. I want to go spend a week in Cuba.

President: Oh no you don't. They are dirty commies down there and if you travel there you might infect us with Commie Cooties.

American: I don't think Israel is blameless in this war.

President: Do I look like I care? I'm a Christian and God's Chosen People are never wrong!

American: I we should cut subsidies for oil companies.

President: My Daddy and my daddy's daddy drilled oil for a livin' I think I'll keep that money flowing to my friends and family thank you very much.

American: I don't think Churches/Temples/Mosques should be tax free. I don't see why I have to support via my tax dollars people who worship God/Yahweh/Allah.

I'm not sure what this is about. I and other people frequently express disagreement with gov. policies, including the Cuban embargo of JFK and LBJ. We are not punished for expressing our opinions, thanks to the First Amendment.

You don't always get the right to choose if your money supports it. Don't like it? Get a new job with a different union that has different goals. Of course Republicans could turn this around in a second by simply dropping opposition to unions so that those people could put their heft behind social things. That however is a choice they made.

That's just it. I should have a right to choose whom or what my money supports. Jobs are not always easy to find and most unions have similar goals because they like the way Dems treat them. The better thing would be for workers to throw out the unions or never come under their sway in the first place.

I'm not a Republican so I don't know what I could do about changing party policies. I will say that if the GOP were to start supporting everything the Dems support, it would mean the end of the two-party system.

 

[Sean Renaud]

They can't control how I vote in a general election but unions have been known to try to control how members vote in union elections, partly by requiring public voting rather than secret ballot. As I said earlier, they use member dues and whatever other money they can gouge out of them to financially support candidates and propositions whether the individual members like it or not. They also punish those who cross picket lines or join organizations the unions dislike.

Again, that's their job. You vote for your leaders and they move to do what they feel is best for the group. That's what a president does. It's absolutely no different from your tax dollars going to Halliburton or the Farm Bill, or TARP, or Stimulus or roads, hospitals, schools and fire protection. I don't see what is so complicated about accepting how reality functions by necessity.

I'm not sure what this is about. I and other people frequently express disagreement with gov. policies, including the Cuban embargo of JFK and LBJ. We are not punished for expressing our opinions, thanks to the First Amendment.

You listed scenarios that union workers find them in, I pointed out citizens find themselves in the same situations all the time. For the same reasons.

That's just it. I should have a right to choose whom or what my money supports. Jobs are not always easy to find and most unions have similar goals because they like the way Dems treat them. The better thing would be for workers to throw out the unions or never come under their sway in the first place.

It's all well and good that you want the right to choose. You do not have it however. If you want it become self sufficient enough that you can demand your price. Jobs aren't always easy to come by, tough shit. Emmigrating to another country is rarely easy but it's necessary and even then you aren't free. You're just trading one group of rules for a new group of rules. Ultimately you do not have a choice nor do you rate one. We don't live in Sugardrop Valley, when we do you'll rate a chance. Until then you get protection from the group so you to an extent have to move with said group. The best thing would be for unions to not be necessary but they are, without them workers get plowed.

I'm not a Republican so I don't know what I could do about changing party policies. I will say that if the GOP were to start supporting everything the Dems support, it would mean the end of the two-party system.

Not that a two party system is actually a desirable thing so much as a compromise (one invented by Republicans because they couldn't win without hobbling together an alliance of people who don't like each other) but there is a vast difference between supporting everything your opponent supports and and remaining silent on issues that do nothing but harm you in the short and long term.

 

[jeninflorida]

jenn, you fucking moron. I have you on iggy but for old times sake I'd like to say, fuq u!

please, like you don't look. Clearly, the reason you get so pissy is I call you out on your bullshit and frankly, you are full of bullshit.

you are a union thug. "management" isn't the problem, its fucking you

 

[Comshaw]

I think you have that ass backwards. It looks like the workers who voted screwed those who might have had a job in the future. But I'm sure you can ignore the facts and put a spin that you like to this.

Turns Out Anti-Union Volkswagen Workers May Have Screwed Themselves And The South


Read it here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/20/vw-union-workers_n_4820585.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592



Comshaw

 

[Boxlicker101]

I think you have that ass backwards. It looks like the workers who voted screwed those who might have had a job in the future. But I'm sure you can ignore the facts and put a spin that you like to this.

Turns Out Anti-Union Volkswagen Workers May Have Screwed Themselves And The South


Read it here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/20/vw-union-workers_n_4820585.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Comshaw

I find it hard to believe anybody would place any credence in the Huffington Post, especially when they are quoting somebody who is apparently biased.

 

[koalabear]

I think you have that ass backwards. It looks like the workers who voted screwed those who might have had a job in the future. But I'm sure you can ignore the facts and put a spin that you like to this.

Turns Out Anti-Union Volkswagen Workers May Have Screwed Themselves And The South


Read it here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/20/vw-union-workers_n_4820585.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592



Comshaw

Honda and Toyota have work counsels and are non-union. VW should ask then how to run their plant.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Pretty much, yes! a union worker CAN pretty much drink on the job with out any issues ....

where the fuck do you get this dream fantasy derp? union workers are like ... carp

You have zero clue, as usual.
I manage a union shop and drinking or doing drugs on the job is an automatic termination and the union won't lift a finger to save them.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I find it hard to believe anybody would place any credence in the Huffington Post, especially when they are quoting somebody who is apparently biased.

Grampa Kiddiefucker always "shoots teh messenger" when facts intrude upon his carefully constructed artificial reality cocoon.
:nods: