Cry Baby UAW Appeals Volkswagen Workers Rejection!

[akatrex]

A teacher’s union in Michigan is fighting to get a $10,000 severance package for a convicted child molester whose case that drew outrage earlier this year when his former school colleagues pleaded with a judge to sentence him lightly.

Neal Erickson, 38, pleaded guilty in May to raping a young boy over the course of three years — from 2006 to 2009 — and was sentenced to 15-30 years in prison. The prison term came over the pleas of seven of Erickson's former fellow teachers at Rose City Middle School, including Sally Campbell, who said in a letter to the judge that “Neal made a mistake"!

CLASSIC UNION(s)!

 

[koalabear]

Don't put words into my mouth, k. I never said that or even suggested it. I saw an article that gave a different point of view and shared it without even expressing my opinion of it. I should have known it was a waste of time.

VW has a business model that includes workers in the decision making. How hard it that to understand? Are facts so uncomfortable that you have to make up thoughts for me to make me look stupid so to discredit me rather than address the simple fact that this is the way that company works?

To paraphrase somebody (I have no idea who): A mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.

How hard is it for you to understand that you do not need a union to include employees in the decision making. You chute is flaming.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Our district assigns miscreant teachers, with no student contact on their conviction orders, to loiter away the days in a conference room at the school board building, where they collate and staple paper together. One old gal tried twice to kill herself in the classroom. But she needs the money! "I'll die without an income." What did I miss?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Wages stagnate for the same reason that every other price of anything stagnates, over-supply. As we automate there aren't MORE jobs, but less. As we regulate industries and prop up wages making outsourcing progressively more attractive we get less and less jobs.

Less jobs and more people is not a recipe for higher wages.

also:

All of us have been raised in an environment where we EXPECT inflation rather than deflation of continuity of the price of goods and services. We HOPE that that inflation benefits us. For that to happen SOMEBODY has to be left behind.

If we had no inflation at all, it would be easier for people to decide if they were getting a good wage for their labor and make their career plans accordingly.

You're half right. We do have stagnant wages because of improving technology. However that's been a constant throughout history and common since the Industrial Revolution. You know how we solved it then? We artificially reduced the amount of availible labor and set a minimum wage.

Inflation does benefit us (in small steady doeses) but it's really the result of your earlier mentioned.

No inflation would be quite the trick to pull.

They can. The union protects you from being fired without just cause.

If you think like Jen there is no such thing as without just cause. If the boss can't sleep with your daughter that's a good reason for you to be fired.

I have? Feel free to show me where.

I'm not zealotly anti socialist. Social democracy has some elements that works pretty well. And some that don't.

Well if you aren't zealotly anti-socialist that makes you a full blown communist.

 

[unregistered]

 

[koalabear]

The UAW had high hopes for the vote because VW at the prodding of IG Metall, the powerful German union that has several representatives on VW's supervisory board, had maintained what it calls a "neutral" stance toward the UAW and did not campaign against the union. It had even permitted UAW representatives limited access to the plant to address workers.

Workers at Volkswagen AG's (VOWG_p.DE) Chattanooga, Tennessee, plant may have voted against joining the United Auto Workers union last week but they may still gain some representation in the company through the formation of a works council.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/16/us-autos-vw-council-analysis-idUSBREA1F0VV20140216

 

[Sean Renaud]

And of course government does all that it can to obstruct the efficiency of that market process as they themselves compete to reduce the private sector and increase the scope and power of the public sector.

The government does absolutely nothing to obstruct that efficiency nor to reduce the private sector. That's simply not true at all.

 

[sigh]

How hard is it for you to understand that you do not need a union to include employees in the decision making. You chute is flaming.

Did I ever say that a union is needed? I simply posted an article that quoted a top official from VW who suggested that. If I hadn't happened to see that article when I went to check my email literally minutes before I saw this thread, I wouldn't have joined the discussion at all. But since the article was to the point of the discussion, I linked to it since it contained an opposing view and thought it could add some interest to what was otherwise simple union bashing. Foolishly (I admit) I expected people to respond to the article, and what it might mean in the long run to the workers in the southern states, and not continue to pretend I think something that I never said.

For the record, I don't belong to a union. No one in my immediate family (grandparents, parents, sibling) belonged to a union either so I wasn't raised in that culture. If a union were to come to my hospital and try to organize us, I'd almost certainly vote against it.

One of the few things that will truly make me angry is when people ascribe thoughts and positions to me that I've never stated myself (it's a favorite tactic of many here, and I'll rarely let it pass without caustic rebuttal). The other is to make fun of people with disabilities, and I think you know why that one stings.

I do apologize for the tone of my earlier remarks, though. I was was raised to be better than I usually am. I can almost see the scowl on my mom's face when she reads me when my back is up (yes, she follows Lit as a lurker, mostly to keep a distant eye on me).


Are you tired of this winter yet, k? It's been a rough one for our neck of the woods.

 

[sigh]

The UAW had high hopes for the vote because VW at the prodding of IG Metall, the powerful German union that has several representatives on VW's supervisory board, had maintained what it calls a "neutral" stance toward the UAW and did not campaign against the union. It had even permitted UAW representatives limited access to the plant to address workers.

Workers at Volkswagen AG's (VOWG_p.DE) Chattanooga, Tennessee, plant may have voted against joining the United Auto Workers union last week but they may still gain some representation in the company through the formation of a works council.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/16/us-autos-vw-council-analysis-idUSBREA1F0VV20140216

Thank you. Now that's the sort of response I was looking for, and quite telling too.

 

[koalabear]

Thank you. Now that's the sort of response I was looking for, and quite telling too.

The German Union needs VW to be Union, VW doesn't.

 

[remy_lebeau8]

You're half right. We do have stagnant wages because of improving technology. However that's been a constant throughout history and common since the Industrial Revolution. You know how we solved it then? We artificially reduced the amount of availible labor and set a minimum wage.

Inflation does benefit us (in small steady doeses) but it's really the result of your earlier mentioned.

No inflation would be quite the trick to pull.



If you think like Jen there is no such thing as without just cause. If the boss can't sleep with your daughter that's a good reason for you to be fired.



Well if you aren't zealotly anti-socialist that makes you a full blown communist.

Or fire you because you have red hair and a red haired guy sold em a bad toaster or some shit.

What really scares me is that jens posts to me have been coherent.

 

[sigh]

From kbear's linked article:

Frank Fischer, chief executive of VW Chattanooga and manager of the plant, emphasized on Friday night that while the workers voted against the UAW they did not vote down the idea of a works council. "Throughout this process, we found great enthusiasm for the idea of an American-style works council both inside and outside our plant," Fischer said. "Our goal continues to be to determine the best method for establishing a works council in accordance with the requirements of U.S. labor law."

The power of such a council, which would be a first of its kind in the United States, would be very limited under U.S. labor law. It could be consulted only on some limited matters rather than negotiate with management on working conditions. And some labor experts say if the workers want to participate in a works council they may have to set up their own independent union to avoid the perception of a company-organized union, which is not allowed under the law.

New ground, new territory. Interesting stuff, but the whole process will be yoked unless certain labor laws are changed.

 

[koalabear]

I fully admit the unions gave themselves a black eye when they started defending the lazy and what not but they have really changed sense the bankruptcys

Uh, no they haven't.
http://autos.aol.com/article/chrysler-rehires-drinking-drugging-workers/

 

[koalabear]

From kbear's linked article:

Frank Fischer, chief executive of VW Chattanooga and manager of the plant, emphasized on Friday night that while the workers voted against the UAW they did not vote down the idea of a works council. "Throughout this process, we found great enthusiasm for the idea of an American-style works council both inside and outside our plant," Fischer said. "Our goal continues to be to determine the best method for establishing a works council in accordance with the requirements of U.S. labor law."

The power of such a council, which would be a first of its kind in the United States, would be very limited under U.S. labor law. It could be consulted only on some limited matters rather than negotiate with management on working conditions. And some labor experts say if the workers want to participate in a works council they may have to set up their own independent union to avoid the perception of a company-organized union, which is not allowed under the law.

New ground, new territory. Interesting stuff, but the whole process will be yoked unless certain labor laws are changed.

All they need do is copy the Honda/Toyota model that has been in place for years now.

 

[sigh]

The German Union needs VW to be Union, VW doesn't.

I'm not sure that's the only conclusion that can be drawn. The model has proven quite successful to VW. I can see why they'd be reluctant to rock that boat.

The UAW needed that plant under their wing more than anyone. They are seriously foundering.

 

[remy_lebeau8]

Uh, no they haven't.
http://autos.aol.com/article/chrysler-rehires-drinking-drugging-workers/

What they dont tell you is all those workers had to go through rehab and get randomly tested. If they fail they loose their job. No 3rd chance. Also there have neen other changes in the last two years

 

[koalabear]

What they dont tell you is all those workers had to go through rehab and get randomly tested. If they fail they loose their job. No 3rd chance. Also there have neen other changes in the last two years

"News of the rehirings is a black eye for both Chrysler and the unions. For Chrysler, it raises questions about what kind of people are building its cars -- even though the vast majority of Chrysler employees were not involved in the incident. And for the United Auto Workers, it raises questions about why they are defending workers who, in the public's eye, shouldn't get their jobs back."

 

[sigh]

All they need do is copy the Honda/Toyota model that has been in place for years now.

The article you quoted said such a council "would be a first of its kind in the United States". Whatever Honda and Toyota are doing, it looks like VW is heading down a different path.

 

[koalabear]

I'm not sure that's the only conclusion that can be drawn. The model has proven quite successful to VW. I can see why they'd be reluctant to rock that boat.

The UAW needed that plant under their wing more than anyone. They are seriously foundering.

"VW at the prodding of IG Metall" The model is quite good for the German Union.

 

[sigh]

"VW at the prodding of IG Metall" The model is quite good for the German Union.

I have no doubt of that. And yet VW is also successful enough to expand into the US. They have good reason to allow IG Metall's influence. You don't toss away a working system lightly.

I admit I know nothing about IG Metall or how they compare to the UAW. They could be two peas in a pod, or alike on the surface only, or anything in between.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

IG METALL may be all that and more back in Kansas but Chattanooga aint Kansas.

 

[koalabear]

I have no doubt of that. And yet VW is also successful enough to expand into the US. They have good reason to allow IG Metall's influence. You don't toss away a working system lightly.

I admit I know nothing about IG Metall or how they compare to the UAW. They could be two peas in a pod, or alike on the surface only, or anything in between.

No union adds quality to the final product, GM is tossing away their union system daily. They have already closed union plants and reopened them elsewhere under new names and no union.

 

[koalabear]

IG METALL may be all that and more back in Kansas but Chattanooga aint Kansas.

German UAW version, like it used to be here, they got too powerful.

 

[sigh]

"News of the rehirings is a black eye for both Chrysler and the unions. For Chrysler, it raises questions about what kind of people are building its cars -- even though the vast majority of Chrysler employees were not involved in the incident. And for the United Auto Workers, it raises questions about why they are defending workers who, in the public's eye, shouldn't get their jobs back."

Even pharmacists are typically allowed second chances when it comes to drug abuse, k. Our state board will require rehab and drug testing before reissuing a limited license, and as remy said, there is no third chance.

(This isn't from personal experience, by the way, though I do know two pharmacists who were caught abusing prescription drugs in a pharmacy. The drug abuse rate is the same among pharmacists (and doctors, nurses, etc.) as it is in the general population, so it's not all that uncommon.)

 

[koalabear]

Even pharmacists are typically allowed second chances when it comes to drug abuse, k. Our state board will require rehab and drug testing before reissuing a limited license, and as remy said, there is no third chance.

(This isn't from personal experience, by the way, though I do know two pharmacists who were caught abusing prescription drugs in a pharmacy. The drug abuse rate is the same among pharmacists (and doctors, nurses, etc.) as it is in the general population, so it's not all that uncommon.)

Not the same at all. It is almost impossible to fire a UAW employee for any reason except hitting a foreman/managment. They usually get rehired with back pay. It's a joke.