you cannot hear Me

[Shadowsdream]

(apologies for being late!)


"One should look behind them"

and perhaps ask themselves questions
- have I always be 100% honest, not only with myself, but with Mistress?
- have I always given every task, no matter how menial, or how trivial seeming, my whole hearted effort?
- have I always submitted with a smile on my face to morror the smile in my heart?
- have I always obeyed without questioning, even if the question has been left unasked?


If the answer to any one of these is a negative - then possibly the submissive has their answer.

Is that what you meant Shadowsdream?

all of your possibilities come right after one looks back to the initial conversations with the Dom/me.

Did that Dominant give the impression that they were looking for a sub..definately..possibly.*******..realtime?
Did that Dominant express what qualities (in the first moments or throughout the conversations) what they held up to value in the submissive they would accept?
Is the Dominant really ready yet to take on the responsibility?

When you have those answers as a honest foundation you will move onto the questions you have brought up.

It is always possible that it is as simple as no *magic* on one side or the other.
Not a failure in any way but simply human nature.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: ADR

Then one needs to reflect, upon HOW, they arrived at the situation of being refused or denied. The answer is within each of us. Truth exists in ALL of us. Sometimes people FEAR the truth and will not face it,...but it IS there.

For each of us,...we have our own truths. For each of us,...the reasons may be different, but if we TRULY seek the truth,...it is THERE we can ALL find our answers.

(JMHO),...but it's mine,...and I own it.

I am not afraid of the truth. I am not afraid of too many things, aside from scorpians (those stings hurt like hell- I've had 3, I know from experience.)

Are you suggesting that being denied is somehow a failure on my part? That perhaps I was not worthy? I think I know the truth. I think I just answered my own questions with my own questions.

Rose

 

[artful]

Re: Re: ADR

I am not afraid of the truth.

Are you suggesting that being denied is somehow a failure on my part? That perhaps I was not worthy?
Not at all.


I think I know the truth. I think I just answered my own questions with my own questions.
Rose

With this,...you have done as is possible for ALL to do. You have answered your own question by looking INSIDE yourself. To do that, one necessarily needs to go BACK to a certain point in history, (As Shadows pointed out),and FACE the TRUTH. It may very well be there was no *magic*, THEIR fault,...YOUR fault, etc. -Well done Rose!

 

[Desdemona]

you have learned the lesson well and looked deep within to find the answers that speak a valid truth.

It comes to pride and self respect, and trust, truth and honesty...full circle as all lessons worth learning will validate.

D/s is complex and inter woven fragments of BDSM cement or chip away at the foundation of the moment and the future.

One thing that never changes...even in slavery...the final choice to kneel in submission comes through the one with the knees.

Another thing that never changes for Me...I am the one that will make the final decision who is worthy of My Domination.

Thank you Shadows. This was a difficult lesson for me. It is all there in my head and in my heart. I think to be actually able to live it, as your slave does, would be much more difficult than pulling the thoughts together and typing them. Most of these concepts feel pretty natural to me. I think perhaps, for me, the real difficulty in any D/s relationship, would be to consistently submit during the times when it is hard or I don't get my wants met.

 

[Shadowsdream]

I don't understand, Shadows.

Rose

I am going to take this into two possibilities..lets assume for this conversation that the submissive and I (using Myself only to keep it generic) have never heard of each other before Lit. The submissive finds Me to be the type of Dominant she has craved to bend her knee to. Lets assume she stays silent about it for months. she watches My style, reads My words, sees how seriously I take honesty, respect and pride.
she craves it all. It makes her feel the need she only thought was want and she learns in the background to search deeper within.
Yet this submissive does not show Me by her actions in Lit that she has any depth. she shows Me that she has no desire to learn and she does not treat all with respect. I see her ass kiss those I have no time for, which shows Me that she cannot read between the lines. she is argumentative in the strangest places and supportive where it makes no sense as well as fails to join in valid and interesting conversations.
she shows Me fluff not substance so when she comes to Me to offer her submission I must decline. It has nothing to do with her worthiness as a submissive and all to do with lack of seriouness in understanding the depth of My way.
I have always watched all conversations online and in real time..the way submissives and Dominants interact in even the most basic ways. If I see a lack of respect shown consistently to either subs or Dom/mes My interest is already diluted.
So if the Dom/me..sub interaction began on Lit is is quite likely the style on Lit could make or break a future possibility of knee bending...

now I will go to what could occur if it was a real time offer turned down

 

[Shadowsdream]

I don't understand, Shadows.

Rose

ok possibility two..still keeping to generically Me and her.

Where W/we met is not important.******* or the local BDSM club

I have taken her into a casual training period. Explaining as I always do that it is NOT a relationship but a trial period of a certain duration. During that time frame the magic will be found or it will not. I feel no obligation to accept her as Mine if that magic is not on BOTH sides. I explain in depth why the magic is so important and the conversations of what I expect and she needs is constant. I teach her to look deep inside of herself to undersatnd why she has certain needs and how My style of Domination serves them best or not at all. I explain that I am not looking for a love relationship but am looking for a BDSM relationship of magic proportions. I already know that magic is the predecessor of love.
If at any point during this training period I feel Topping from the bottom is a personality trait..that love becomes the driving force in her eyes, she tries to obligate Me to be available to her schedule or she is only in it for the hot sex. I will continue the training but the chances of accepting her submission long term are eroding quickly.
I will lead her back to the original conversations constantly..so that she has all the opportunities to re evaluate and understand why it will not be Me that she will bend her knee to.
This does not take away from her validity as a wonderful and worthwhile sub...but it does explain some of the reasons there is no magic.

two small possibilities to consider..and now I will jump in the next thread with possibilities of what the sub can do about it

 

[artful]

Shadows

I am waiting to copy and paste,...where have you gone?

 

[UCE]

I see you trying to peer into the future, and trying to control it's destiny. Letting your fear be the pen you write the script with. Taking control in a subtle way, yet not hearing the answer you wished for even in the words that speak your desire clearly and concisely. Always one foot on the threshold between running and staying. I feel doubt, hesitation, denial, confusion, lack of self esteem. I see your inability to focus consistently on plans that you formulate to please Me. Small things that add up when I see slow or no progress. Then I see your disappointment when I cannot understand why you set yourself up to fail.

I think all the things that you describe seeing are things that a person can accept in someone else if that someone is their (don't mean to be corny here, but the phrase seems accurate) one true love. This is probably so because the things that you love about the person so outweigh the things about them that are difficult. A lot of the things you described in the quote are things that I do sometimes, but my owner is very forgiving of them because apparently I give him other things or am other things that he really loves, and that makes the above misbehavior or attitudes, in contrast, trivial.

I wish it were easy to know instanteously if someone we were starting a relationship with had the potential to be that true love. Think of all the pain that would save if two people could see, at the start, where the relationship could go and where it couldn't..and why. Some people seem better at telling this than others...and faster, too. That's why, I think, you so often see the tragic situation of one partner who feels it's true love and another who really loves and cares for the person, but knows that something essential is missing. The "true love" person often seems to ignore or forget when the other partner is honest and tells them it isn't right, and keeps hoping that they will come round or wake up one day and be in love with them. Hard stuff.

 

[UCE]

Re: Re: ADR

Are you suggesting that being denied is somehow a failure on my part? That perhaps I was not worthy? I think I know the truth. I think I just answered my own questions with my own questions.
Rose

Scorpion stings?? Whew! Good thing you're not allergic! You must have some good venom resistance by now.

I hope you don't mind my answering your questions, even though you have answered them for yourself already. Of course, these are questions whose answers vary widely with the person, and they also vary with who the person doing the rejecting is.

But way too many submissives come to the "I wasn't worthy" conclusion. More often than not, at least in bdsm relationships, it's the other way around: he wasn't worthy of you. The more honest you are, the more self-knowing, the more conscious and aware, the deeper your submissive needs, the more potential you have to scare shitless someone who is just looking for casual fun but told you he wanted much more. You'll also scare off the partners who don't understand that submissives are full-personalitied people, full of complexities and even more difficulties than the average woman, in other words people who are biting off more than they can chew in the relationship department. It helps to see the way these former partners treat others over the years: eventually you see enough to go "Whew! Thank GOD he thought I wasn't right for him. What a narrow escape for me!" In most cases of bdsm rejection that I see, the rejection is due to fear or inability on the rejector's part and not unworthiness on the rejectee's part. You can tell people that bdsm relationships are much more hard to make work than regular ones till you're blue in the face and most people still won't really grasp that simple, observable fact until they've tried it themselves. Unfortunately, they're "trying it out" results in their try-out partners, who perhaps expected more--like what they're partner promised for instance, lol--getting deeply hurt.

One thing I've noticed is that somebody who is worth their weight in gold in a bdsm sense will let you down so easily and gently that you will feel very little or no pain at the rejection. Such people will work hard to help you find someone who is more compatible with you.

Yes, there is the issue of compatibility too and both individuals feeling that this is "true love" and the "magic," or the sense of things clicking in place that has to be there for a long-term relationship to work, and sometimes a person will feel rejected because their partner will realize before they do that this magic isn't there. I think it's impossible not to feel rejected in that sort of situation. If the rejector is honest and tells you at the earliest possible moment that it isn't working for him or her, they've done the very best they can for you. The rejectee needs to realize that people in general know what they want and aren't going to change their level of need or love for you to one that's higher simply because you need or love them very strongly. You can't change a person in that way. The chemistry either works or it doesn't. That's simple hard facts.

There's an even worse situation that can happen than getting rejected: the person who knows you aren't right can lie to you (reasons can vary for this, and not all are nefarious--sometimes they just feel sorry for you) and tell you they're in love with you, they may even start a serious live-in relationship with you and then one day, blow their top: they can't stand it anymore, they never loved you, it was all a fake. It is much harder to take that sort of harsh rejection further into the relationship than it is to get an honest answer early.

It's hard to imagine any situation where someone is actually "unworthy" of someone else. That idea comes out of fantasies, I think, where a low-self-esteem submissive imagines that her personal worth is somehow less than that of a dominant's. A person's "worth" has nothing to do with whether someone rejects her romantically or not. Some really terrible, unworthy people, at least in my opinion, manage to find compatible mates and fall very happily in love with them. (Of course I hope and pray that these assholes get the mates that they really deserve, lol!) Some really wonderful and deserving people in all the ways that we measure those traits never find a longterm mate. There's just more or less compatibility or incompatibilty or how your personality meshes with the other person's personality--and a lot of that meshing is mysterious and hard to verbalize so we call it "clicking together" or "magic" or "chemistry." "You are not worthy of me" is just a convenient excuse used by lazy uncaring people who either don't mesh with someone or do are not looking to mesh but do not want to take the trouble or the time to explain that fact. Because submissives will often believe that excuse and go away quietly, it's one that is used by a lot of nefarious doms.

Anyway, if the compatibility is enough from both ends, it will more than outweigh the incompatible or difficult areas and you have a chance for a successful, working relationship. Waiting for that to happen and in the meantime trying to find the right person for that to happen with is quite hard...on everybody. Lots of people try to approach this sort of thing via rational methods, like having a potential partner fill out a compatibility checklist, but those usually backfire, because the meshing, when it occurs, is much more complex than anything our rational minds can imagine.

Now time for a dirty picture. It may not be obvious, but she's peeing on the items in the bowl: