Young submissive seeking advice/encouragement

[JMohegan]

Any words of advice or encouragement from those who have more experience in the lifestyle?

Welcome, GeekySub. I have two pieces of advice, as follows.

However, he could also be a very selfish and inconsiderate person and I felt the relationship was damaging my self-esteem and leaving me unsatisfied emotionally.

You described your experience with Bob as a "serious M/s relationship".

As such, if he sometimes wanted to hold you tenderly and stroke your hair, telling you how much he appreciated and cared for you, he would have an absolute right to do so. On the other hand, he would have an absolute right not to do these things.

He's the Master. You're the slave. That's the way it works.

First piece of advice. Add these items to your BDSM checklist:

- Physical affection (giving)
- Physical affection (receiving)
- Verbal expressions of affection or appreciation (giving)
- Verbal expressions of affection or appreciation (receiving)
- Love/romance

Discuss these items on the list at length, as early as possible in any future relationship.

Then again, I also think that perhaps I'm worrying prematurely.He's a few years younger than Bob (Bob is 37, John is 30.)and I realize that over time his own desires may mature or change to an extent as he becomes more experienced.

In a way, this reminds me of the flawed reasoning employed by women who think a prospective husband will grow out of the desire to watch ball games on a Sunday afternoon and develop a penchant for art museums or wine tasting.

Of course, tastes do change over time. But my second piece of advice is: don't ever assume that this will happen.

I have never been interested in humiliation play. Not at 25, 30, 35, 40, or 45. If a woman craves humiliation, she has no business being in a relationship with me because I am simply not going to provide it.

I'm the Dominant. That's the way it works.

 

[JMohegan]

I would suggest taking the avice of doing checklists with your new partner, being open and discussing your experiences and desires, and most of all being honest. It helps no-one if 6 months or a year down the track when you are both settled in the relationship you begin to complain your needs are not being met and blaming each other for the possible mismatch of needs.

Absolutely correct, and very well put.

 

[cati]

Geekysub you sound so very mature, way beyond your 23 years. So articulate and well spoken, again way beyond your years. While i don't doubt the sincerity of your post. I'm curious about your background.

 

[myinnerslut]

Psh, you're all old.

you're only a month younger then i am

 

[GeekySub]

Geekysub you sound so very mature, way beyond your 23 years. So articulate and well spoken, again way beyond your years. While i don't doubt the sincerity of your post. I'm curious about your background.

My background is pretty boring

Went to high school in a small rural town. Graduated as valedictorian. Went off to college and married my high school sweetheart. BIG mistake. I quit college during our divorce just a few months later. Moved back home to the family farm and now work as a jailer for the sheriff's dept. That's about my whole life story!

 

[GeekySub]

First piece of advice. Add these items to your BDSM checklist:

- Physical affection (giving)
- Physical affection (receiving)
- Verbal expressions of affection or appreciation (giving)
- Verbal expressions of affection or appreciation (receiving)
- Love/romance

They were always on it. And with "Bob" , it was agreed from the beginning that I would get those things and that we were looking at romantically-oriented relationship.He had told me from the beginning, "I'm looking for the love of my life and a future wife."

Perhaps I should give some more background on that relationship, as it's a long story.

Orginally, my relationship with Bob was great and he was everything I ever wanted a dominant to be. He was very much a Daddy Dom and gave me tons of affection and love both verbal and physical. It was like a fairy-tale romance for me.

Seeing as it was my first BDSM relationship though, he sort of pushed me a bit harder in some areas than I was ready for and I got scared (not talking about sexual things but rather certain control issues). Considering my age and experience level, I wasn't ready to be the kind of slave he wanted. That was my fault, I'll admit. He wanted more than I could give at the time in terms of having control of my life. For example , I was very uncomfortable with letting him control my finances.

We began to have issues about a few things...one of them was about children. Being a man in his late 30's, he was saying "Well in a few years, I'm going to be wanting children before I get too old, etc". I had told him from day one that I was not interested in having children and he had originally agreed to this. But a few months later he's wanting to change the agreement. Basically, his arguement was "I'm the dom and it's my decision whether or not you have kids." I have a real problem with this, because as a child of the 90's, I was very much taught that a woman's reproductive choices are very much her own.

So that led to "Well, if you won't have my kids, you'll have to accept me having a 2nd girl who will." This led to another issue, because I had also made it very clear early on that I was not comfortable with being in any sort of poly situation and again he had conceded to this originally.

So basically these issues led to some resentment on both our parts and things sort of fell apart and he released me.


So we both spent a few months alone and so forth and so on but after a while we started talking again because we missed each other. Because we still had feelings for each other, we were both interested in having another go at things. So we cautiously re-entered into what was supposed to be a dominant/submissive relationship.However, he acted like a totally different person than he had been in the past. He not only acted vanilla with me but also acted fairly platonic.

All the "daddydom" stuff was gone.All the affection, all the romance, all the nurturing. He acted like he had zero interest in playing with me and our sex life was non-existant (this being a man who used to want it 3x a day!) He spent a lot of time with me but it was all platonic time.

All our bdsm interactions had disappeared. He was sort of stressed and busy from other factors but he acted like he had zero interest in being a dominant. It's like he went from being "Super-Dom" to being super-vanilla. He didn't even want me calling him Master or Daddy or any of the things I used to call him.


Obviously , I felt very unloved and undesirable because my dominant was not wanting to play with me sexually OR to take control of my life.

He started just behaving really oddly (in relation to how he had acted before.) He was snapping at me all the time for odd things and behaving in an almost passive-aggressive manner. I would try to come to him for advice on my problems and his response was "I don't have time for this shit, I have my own shit going on."

He never used to be like that...before he had always said, "come to me with all your problems, let me help you make your decisions, etc". Now it was as if he resented me asking for his advice.

He pretty much started acting like he didn't even like me...we weren't having sex, he wasn't acting as my dominant in ANY way, and I often felt he resented me. It was as if he'd been replaced by his evil twin from a parallel universe or something.

He was playing with other girls, which I knew about but resented...it didn't seem fair that I was going 2-3 weeks at a time with no sex while he was out doing other girls. When I tried to discuss how badly this affected my self esteem, he would become extremely defensive and angry.

So basically, we both got fed up with each other...His accusations were that I was smothering, clingy and neurotic. My accusations against him were that he was selfish, mean, and lacking in compassion.

So that's the full story there. I take my share of the blame for the things I did wrong but I still feel that things were partially his fault as well.

You can't say, "Sure, I'll be your dominant again" but then say, "Oh by the way I don't really have any interest in fucking you or controlling your life. Oh yeah, and I'm gonna fuck other girls too and I expect you to be ok with that, even though you yourself are going weeks at a time without orgasm."

Call me young and immature...call me "not a real submissive" even, but those things just didn't sit well with me.

 

[myinnerslut]

Call me young and immature...call me "not a real submissive", but those things just didn't sit well with me.

i call you smart for getting out of a reltionship that wasnt what it was advertised to be and was making you very unhappy. just becuase your submissive doesnt mean you can be walked all over, cheated on, and taken advantage of.

 

[GeekySub]

But then again, I don't want to paint him as a devil either. He changed his mind about a few things (which was a problem for me) but he was always very honest.

And to him, he wasn't cheating on me because he told me about it upfront. When he told me he was going to be with other girls, I basically said, "Well it's your right as the dominant...I don't like it and it really hurts me but I don't guess I have a right to say anything about it."

But still, it's hard to sit at home on friday night being alone while your dominant is out running around with some other girl, and you KNOW she's going to get an orgasm that night.

I did finally mention to him that if he was going to play with other girls, could he at least make time to play with me too? I mentioned that I hadn't had an orgasm in two weeks and he's like , "Gee, I'm sorry...I've been sort of self-absorbed lately and I forgot".

C'mon folks...you don't FORGET to play with your sub for two weeks.

 

[catalina_francisco]

And to him, he wasn't cheating on me because he told me about it upfront. When he told me he was going to be with other girls, I basically said, "Well it's your right as the dominant...I don't like it and it really hurts me but I don't guess I have a right to say anything about it."

OK, he is right, it wasn't cheating given he told you upfront. That being said, what I see here apart from him not being the sort of Dominant I would want, is that you have a problem with boundaries and feeling comfortable setting limits for yourself and sticking by them. He might be the Dominant, but unless you are in a no limits relationship, if you had said you would not be comfortable with him having other submissives or girlfriends, and he agreed and then broke his word, you have the right to walk and he is not good at keeping his word in which case you did a good thing eventually walking.

You do not have to take any shit just because you want to be a submissive, and you don't have to apologise to someone who cannot respect your feelings or the limits you named as important in the beginning. The bit about not wanting children is something to be careful of.....you are very young so you might find you change your mind, the man you get involved with might change his mind...then you both need to communicate. Unlike many things which can be set as limits, I personally do not feel this is one of them if the other person's feelings change as it is such a huge life choice matter which goes beyond most and is not a matter of being able to control emotionally or otherwise.

Catalina

 

[Marquis]

My favorite part of this whole thing is that you're a jailer.

 

[GeekySub]

My favorite part of this whole thing is that you're a jailer.

LOL, sort of ironic, huh? I spent my nights bossing around grown men

Catalina, I wanted to address one issue you brought up, even though it is a bit of a sidetrack.

On the kids issue...this is a very, very big thing for me. I hesitate to mention it because I usually get judged for it pretty harshly but I have a strong, mental issue where kids are concerned.

I was raised an only child in a small, small family (mom, father, grandmother, me, no other relatives in the picture.) I never attended day care, nor were there other children living near our home, so I was never exposed to other children until I started school.

From the first day of Pre-k, I had a very strong aversion towards the other children. They freaked me out. They were loud, they giggled, they made high pitched noises, they ran about and jumped up and down on things and just really bothered me. I avoided them at all costs and spent my recess times hanging out with my teachers. In elementary school, I would sit in the bathroom and read on my lunch break because I didn't want to be around the other kids.

This didn't change for me until I was about 12, and by then I was able to find kids my age who were also quiet and calm and whose company I enjoyed.

I think everyone thought I was just a little anti-social and that I'd grow out of my dislike for small kids. I didn't. It got worse.

It got to the point where I pretty much hated children, especially toddlers and babies. I also had a strong aversion towards pregnant women. It was just something that "squicked" me. It almost became a phobia or sorts.

I'm now in counseling/therapy over it because it's gotten so bad that I can't even eat in a restaurant if there are small children present, especially babies. I just get nauseous when I see them, and get headaches when I hear them, and I have to leave the restaurant. I can't bear to touch them or to touch a woman's who's pregnant. It just makes my skin crawl and makes me almost vomit sometimes. I'm not saying this to offend any mothers out there, but I just genuinely can't be around them.

I do think that with enough counseling I will eventually be able to eat near them in restaurants but I have no desire to overcome my phobia enough to have one of my own. My gyno has finally come to understand this and has agreed to tie my tubes. We're supposed to be doing it sometime in the next few months, depending on when I can get the time off from work.

So you see, this is very much a BIG issue for me. I just can't be with a guy who has kids or wants any.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hijack alert...have to say this is my favourite of your AV's Marquis....very classy and a few other things as well.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

LOL, sort of ironic, huh? I spent my nights bossing around grown men

Catalina, I wanted to address one issue you brought up, even though it is a bit of a sidetrack.

On the kids issue...this is a very, very big thing for me. I hesitate to mention it because I usually get judged for it pretty harshly but I have a strong, mental issue where kids are concerned.

I was raised an only child in a small, small family (mom, father, grandmother, me, no other relatives in the picture.) I never attended day care, nor were there other children living near our home, so I was never exposed to other children until I started school.

From the first day of Pre-k, I had a very strong aversion towards the other children. They freaked me out. They were loud, they giggled, they made high pitched noises, they ran about and jumped up and down on things and just really bothered me. I avoided them at all costs and spent my recess times hanging out with my teachers. In elementary school, I would sit in the bathroom and read on my lunch break because I didn't want to be around the other kids.

This didn't change for me until I was about 12, and by then I was able to find kids my age who were also quiet and calm and whose company I enjoyed.

I think everyone thought I was just a little anti-social and that I'd grow out of my dislike for small kids. I didn't. It got worse.

It got to the point where I pretty much hated children, especially toddlers and babies. I also had a strong aversion towards pregnant women. It was just something that "squicked" me. It almost became a phobia or sorts.

I'm now in counseling/therapy over it because it's gotten so bad that I can't even eat in a restaurant if there are small children present, especially babies. I just get nauseous when I see them, and get headaches when I hear them, and I have to leave the restaurant. I can't bear to touch them or to touch a woman's who's pregnant. It just makes my skin crawl and makes me almost vomit sometimes. I'm not saying this to offend any mothers out there, but I just genuinely can't be around them.

I do think that with enough counseling I will eventually be able to eat near them in restaurants but I have no desire to overcome my phobia enough to have one of my own. My gyno has finally come to understand this and has agreed to tie my tubes. We're supposed to be doing it something in the next few months, depending on when I can get the time off from work.

So you see, this is very much a BIG issue for me. I just can't be with a guy who has kids or wants any.

That's my point though, in a round about way...it is a huge issue for anyone, and though someone (say the Dominant) might agree to no children and genuinely mean it and think he does not want any ever, it might and can change and it is not one of those things I think one can easily brush off by reminding them they had previously said they didn't want them. It is one of those things which people usually feel strongly about, whether they do or don't want them, and as such it may become something you might either have to compromise on, find another solution for, or as you did with this one, leave the relationship.

Catalina

 

[GeekySub]

I agree with you on that point...it's something that can change for most people. I think with him I just figured that if he didn't have kids by the age of 37, he wasn't going to want them. I also thought that he'd understand , considering my issues, that him having kids with ANOTHER woman wasn't going to be a good thing either. Once I find out that a man is a father, I sort of lose my sexual attraction to him. I know that sounds horrible, but I was really upfront about it from the beginning. I do respect that he changed his mind though, and so I didn't really have any choice but to seek a different partner.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

I agree with you on that point...it's something that can change for most people. I think with him I just figured that if he didn't have kids by the age of 37, he wasn't going to want them. I also thought that he'd understand , considering my issues, that him having kids with ANOTHER woman wasn't going to be a good thing either. Once I find out that a man is a father, I sort of lose my sexual attraction to him. I know that sounds horrible, but I was really upfront about it from the beginning. I do respect that he changed his mind though, and so I didn't really have any choice but to seek a different partner.

Men don't have the same biological clock that women do, I hate to tell ya. Well ok most men don't.

Sounds to me like you did the right thing in getting out of a bad situation. Good for you!

 

[catalina_francisco]

I agree with you on that point...it's something that can change for most people. I think with him I just figured that if he didn't have kids by the age of 37, he wasn't going to want them. I also thought that he'd understand , considering my issues, that him having kids with ANOTHER woman wasn't going to be a good thing either. Once I find out that a man is a father, I sort of lose my sexual attraction to him. I know that sounds horrible, but I was really upfront about it from the beginning. I do respect that he changed his mind though, and so I didn't really have any choice but to seek a different partner.

Perhaps you are better looking at men who ave had children as there is much more chance they will be satisfied with their choices and possibly be at a point where they don't wish to have anymore. While you look at childless men, you stand a greater chance of them feeling the need to procreate....and 37 is a very good age for them to suddenly feel their biological clock ticking even though they can father children well into ancient years.

Catalina

 

[GeekySub]

Thanks Dixi

Anyways, all that is the past now. I'm trying hard to focus on here and now and being happy in my current situation...

As a bit of an update, John invited me over earlier and we had a woooonderful session which was quite a bit more intense than our previous play, so maybe I am worrying for no reason.

 

[GeekySub]

Perhaps you are better looking at men who ave had children as there is much more chance they will be satisfied with their choices and possibly be at a point where they don't wish to have anymore. While you look at childless men, you stand a greater chance of them feeling the need to procreate....and 37 is a very good age for them to suddenly feel their biological clock ticking even though they can father children well into ancient years.

Catalina

I've sort of thought about that...That maybe I should find someone who perhaps has older children (teenagers) who didn't live with him or even grown children. Of course this puts me looking at men in the early 40's or more, which I'm not entirely comfortable with yet. (My own mother is only 44, my stepfather 38, and dating someone older than them kind of bothers me for some reason.)

Dating men with younger children would be out of the question as I imagine he would become insulted when I tell him his kiddo grosses me out and I want nothing to do with the child.

I suspect that this particular situation will become easier I get older...by the time I'm 30, being with a guy in his early 40's won't feel so odd.

 

[Quint]

.............

 

[Marquis]

GeekySub, have you ever met a child that would've been your best friend as a kid?

What if you had a child like that? Would that be so bad?

 

[NemoAlia]

I was an adult before I ever met a person who could possibly fulfill the role of "best friend." Fortunately, neither she nor I let the opportunity pass -- and we intend to hold on tight to each other as much as possible in the future.

But as stand-offish as I was as a kid, I'm still interested in some day being a parent myself. However, I have major guilt about that desire, and admire GeekySub's decision to be childfree. Really, that often seems like the best, most selfless decision a person can make. Disregarding calls of nature can be a real challenge, I hear.

 

[chris9]

The child issue maybe a bit different.
I agree with Catalina that it's well possible that Mr. Perfect feels he wants to have children anyways some time into the relationship. That's understandable and like every other change of how life goes needs communication, understanding, maybe compromising. It can grow to be the issue that breaks the relationship, it can be a problem that both can work through. Noone will know beforehand.
What bothers me more is when Dominants assume to take control over a part of life where control had not been given. If you told 'Bob' that you really don't want children then this is something he does not control. If he wants children after all, fine, either work through it or leave. But assuming this control over your choices, no matter why you make them, seems wrong. I have to say, from what you told us about 'Bob', I'm glad the relationship ended.

And yay on 'John' for more intense play!

Oh, and another thing that's been going around in my head for a while now: I'm not sure I got it right, but it sounds as if you are afraid that 'John' won't like you anymore if you tell him that you are into what you term more extreme kinks. If this were true, you would have to hide part of who you are from him. And that's no good foundation for a relationship.
Thinking on this from his point of view: Imagine he really is not into (e.g.) humiliation. He doesn't know you are. You find down the road that you really need this. I'd imagine he would be negatively surprised to find you breaking up because of a need he had no knowledge about.
I know none of this has to be true, has to happen. But to me it seems like a danger worth pointing out.

 

[Aeroil]

No no no, you got it backwards again. You see Marquis, and then you need to go to sex therapy. What would you do without me, dear?

oooh, right, right, I must not let the wisdom of Black Mages go unheeded, you're right.

If things are amplifying between you two, then its probably best to take my approach and not mention it at all unless it stops amplifying short of the degree you desire.

I don't really want kids, but I'm not a Dom, you can join one of the committee's to turn me into one if you want though.

 

[Quint]

.............

 

[GeekySub]

GeekySub, have you ever met a child that would've been your best friend as a kid?

What if you had a child like that? Would that be so bad?

LOL, you sort of missed the point

I didn't have best friends as a little kid..not until I was almost a teenager. And adopting a teenager is definately something I might one day consider. In the case of Bob, adoption would have been out of the question. He wanted kids so he could "leave a piece of himself on earth" and "Continue his family name." He had also said many times that no real man wants to take care of some other man's kid (that particular thing came up in a discussion of my stepfather).

He could be really close-minded about things like that.

But that's part of who he was and it wasn't fair for either or us to ask the other to change.