1st / 3rd person perspective?

[PennameWombat]

<snip>
I do commonly insert an individual's thoughts into a third-person story, generally using italics instead of quotation marks:

I do that regularly. That's why I sometimes switch amongst my third-person POV characters in different sections. I've had three subsequent sections each show a different character's POV and their thoughts on a common scene (sure, Rashomon did it better.)

I don't usually use italics, although I know that's taught in plenty of courses. I usually use single quotes and make clear with 'he thought' tags or similar.

That would be third person omniscient. There was an effort in creative writing programs in the United States to stamp that out as being too lazy, but I don't think it has succeeded.

If the inner monologue or thoughts in third person are only for/from your point of view character, then that's still third-person limited. It's only omniscient if it's all characters, regardless of POV. I've no objection to anyone using the omniscient mode. Sure, can be poorly used but so can every other technique.

But I'm not sure which it actually is from the quote given.

 

[MColton84]

I have seen it used effectively here with a couple EX-V stories.

IF you know of any off hand, would you please PM me the links? I'm not disputing whether or not they can be done. I only stated that it was a nightmare for me trying to implement it. It would be nice to see some effective uses of 2nd Person. I am always looking for ways to improve and expand my writing.

 

[KeithD]

If the inner monologue or thoughts in third person are only for/from your point of view character, then that's still third-person limited. It's only omniscient if it's all characters, regardless of POV. I've no objection to anyone using the omniscient mode. Sure, can be poorly used but so can every other technique.

But I'm not sure which it actually is from the quote given.

I took the poster to be saying that more than one character's thoughts were being revealed by the narrator/writer. If only one, then, yes, it's 3rd person limited.

Having it come back for a second round, though, I'll note that, certainly you can use italics as suggested at Literotica if you want--but, for U.S. publishing, The Chicago Manual of Style does not support using italics for this (publishers are trying to do away with italics as much as possible). The CMS supports putting it in quotes or not putting it in quotes, but, in both cases, making clear in the text that it's thoughts.

 

[EddieTheMuse]

I always write in 1st person. It's the easiest for me and writing easy works because then I can just type and not worry I'm not doing it right.

I also tend to have a lot of inner thoughts so 1st person seems like the best for that.

 

[SisterJezabel]

I started writing in third person, but received lots of comments saying it read like a police or newspaper report. I now tend to write exclusively in first person, with extended dialogue to give other characters a chance to expound their views/positions etc. I find this preferable to text such as 'Later on I would find he had been staring at my butt in these jeans...'

 

[CyranoJ]

Is there one that is preferred? Or is it just the same preference, 1st person, 3rd person are equal?

This. It just depends on your personal inclinations and what works best for you. I personally use 3rd person b/c I find it emotionally easier to cope with.

It's incredibly hard to make 2nd person work without seeming unbearably pretentious, but I wouldn't discount it. I just don't have the skills to do it.

If you do (or if you don't know whether you do but feel tempted to try for it), by all means, attempt it. You'll regret the things you *don't* try, in the end, far more than the things you *do* try, whether or not they work, and fiction is one of the safest possible testing grounds in terms of whether you would actually harm people by trying.

 

[MColton84]

It's incredibly hard to make 2nd person work without seeming unbearably pretentious, but I wouldn't discount it. I just don't have the skills to do it.

If you do (or if you don't know whether you do but feel tempted to try for it), by all means, attempt it. You'll regret the things you *don't* try, in the end, far more than the things you *do* try, whether or not they work, and fiction is one of the safest possible testing grounds in terms of whether you would actually harm people by trying.

Well said.

 

[Sarah_1964]

I see both, but a lot of first person. I tend to that because 3d person is more difficult.

Is there one that is preferred? Or is it just the same preference, 1st person, 3rd person are equal?

2nd person stories are just insanely difficult. I might try it sometime.

- Diance

This is a fascinating question: I never thought of it - but then I am not a writer, I just write down things. I think almost everything I have written for fun is in first person - about me and my feelings. In my work it is required to use passive voice: that would make for an odd sort of sex story.

 

[Sarah_1964]

I see both, but a lot of first person. I tend to that because 3d person is more difficult.

Is there one that is preferred? Or is it just the same preference, 1st person, 3rd person are equal?

2nd person stories are just insanely difficult. I might try it sometime.

- Diance

This is a fascinating question: I never thought of it - but then I am not a writer, I just write down things. I think almost everything I have written for fun is in first person - about me and my feelings. In my work it is required to use passive voice: that would make for an odd sort of sex story, maybe I should try that as my first deliberetaly designed real story.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'll note this. I've used 1st person POV, 3d person limited POV, and 3d person omniscient POV in my stories. I've seen no difference in terms of the number of views I get or in terms of the scores I get. My most viewed story is in 3d person and my highest rated story is in 3d person. I don't think I've ever received a comment about my use of point of view. So, feel free to write with whatever POV you want to. If it's done reasonably well anything can work and be received well by readers.

 

[MartaMaine]

I much prefer writing in 1st person, I find it easier for communicating my character's thoughts and emotions.

 

[MColton84]

I much prefer writing in 1st person, I find it easier for communicating my character's thoughts and emotions.

Lately, I have been writing mostly in 1st person/present tense. I also find in easier for communicating my characters thoughts and feelings as their happening. Using this method has greatly improved the quality of my writing. Although, I believe that that is because it flows better with my style, rather than one perspective or tense being superior to the other. I still occasionally use the 3rd person perspective, and play with second on my own time. Really, it's all about what flows best with your work.

 

[MartaMaine]

Lately, I have been writing mostly in 1st person/present tense. I also find in easier for communicating my characters thoughts and feelings as their happening. Using this method has greatly improved the quality of my writing. Although, I believe that that is because it flows better with my style, rather than one perspective or tense being superior to the other. I still occasionally use the 3rd person perspective, and play with second on my own time. Really, it's all about what flows best with your work.

I enjoy reading in the present tense but, for whatever reason, i struggle when I try to write that way.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Late add-on to this thread, but for whatever it's worth -

I find it rather easy to switch between 1st POV and 3rd person limited POV. Mostly, it feels like "I did this" versus "He did this." A few times, I've started a story in one POV before realizing that it read better in the opposite.

In general, it feels like my limited 3rd person POV stories are better received than 1st person narratives. I'm not sure why.

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't think there's a right or wrong here, just what's more comfortable for you, or what you feel works best.

When I first started writing I did a lot of first person for my smut because I felt the "I" really put the reader into the story which is what you want, especially in sex because they feel closer to the action.

When I wrote more serious works I tended to go third because its easier to shift POV and bounce around in the same scene, whereas in first you can really only have one person talking/saying/doing without there being confusion.

A few years back I started doing everything in third. I think the last first person story I did was In 2016 The Return of Molly Minx and that had been the first in a couple years. For some reason I slid back to first for that one because its how it sounded in my head...which goes back to the point of whatever works for you is best.

 

[Trionyx]

As mentioned above, never use both first and third in the same story.
If using multiple first persons, have separate sections with the name of the person identified.
A nice compromise between first and third person is third person but in which we know the thoughts of one character.

 

[jaF0]

I guess I do various combination of first and third, probably the stuff some above don't like. I mix narration with thoughts and comments of the characters.


Not even sure I understand what second really involves. Hell, maybe I've done it without realizing it.

 

[SimonDoom]

Not even sure I understand what second really involves. Hell, maybe I've done it without realizing it.

Second person is this:

You went to his house wearing the shortest dress you owned and thong panties. He cooked dinner for you and after it was over you stripped the dress off and sat on his lap. He smiled and you knew it was going to be a good night.


This style of writing is rare, for obvious reasons.

 

[jaF0]

Second person is this:

You went to his house wearing the shortest dress you owned and thong panties. He cooked dinner for you and after it was over you stripped the dress off and sat on his lap. He smiled and you knew it was going to be a good night.


This style of writing is rare, for obvious reasons.

I don't see that much difference between that and:

She went to his house wearing the shortest dress she owned and thong panties. He cooked dinner for her and after it was over she stripped the dress off and sat on his lap. He smiled and she knew it was going to be a good night.


Of course, I know your paragraph is but a very simple example and a full story would be more involved.

I guess that sample just seems like a narrator speaking to a principle rather than the reader.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I guess that sample just seems like a narrator speaking to a principle rather than the reader.

Sort of, except that it also forces the reader to accept that they are doing all the action.

I'm not sure if this works or not, but here's how I tend to think of the three different perspectives.

1st person: I'm telling you a story that happened to me, the narrator. I get to word it anyway I want to from very casual to very formal. The reader only gets to know the things I see or think because there's no way for me to know what's happening in the next room unless I can see or hear it. Otherwise, I can't read their minds, but I can guess what people are thinking, try to interpret their meaning, or read their expressions (faithfully or unfaithfully).

2nd person: I'm telling you what you did or what you're going to do. I like to imagine that I'm a lawyer confronting a witness on the stand. "You did this. You are going to this other thing. You were happy about it." That sort of thing.

3rd person (limited): I'm telling a story about a friend, from his point of view. It follows most of the rules of 1st person, because if my friend couldn't see what happened, he doesn't know about it. However, I can also make extra comments. I can share an opinion about what my friend is doing, too.

3rd person (omniscient): All the characters are chess pieces on my chessboard. As the writer, I see all and I know all - and while I'm telling the story, I choose what's important and not important to share. I might tell you what is someone thinking and I might not, it all depends on if it serves the story or not. As long as I'm not confusing to the listener (reader), I can jump around all I want.

I think I'm pretty good at 1st person and 3rd person-limited, but I tend to suck at getting down the rhythms of 3rd person-omniscient. It feels tricky to me.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think I'm pretty good at 1st person and 3rd person-limited, but I tend to suck at getting down the rhythms of 3rd person-omniscient. It feels tricky to me.

You're not alone in feeling that way, but I think it's less difficult than some people think.

The most common and effective way I've seen third-person omniscient done is for the perspective to switch with a new scene, but to stay on one person's POV during that scene. An excellent example of this style is the detective novels of Elizabeth George, which I've been reading lately. I recommend reading her stuff for the way she handles POV, as well as everything else, because she's a very good writer. Larry McMurtry writes this way, too. Lonesome Dove is a good example -- a long, epic tale told from the perspectives of many people, but just one POV per scene.

It's not that difficult to do. It's basically third-person limited, but the limited POV switches from one person to the next between scenes.

This style may not work well for all short stories, because the stories may not be long enough or have enough separate scenes to make it worthwhile.

The trickier form of omniscient is switching from one perspective to another within a scene. If you don't handle it skillfully you have the problem of "head-hopping", where the reader ping pongs back and forth between perspectives from one paragraph or sentence to the next. That can be annoying. If you stick to the "one perspective per scene" method you avoid this. I did this sometimes in my early stories, some of which were quite successful, but I shy away from this style now.

 

[jaF0]

I never studied writing to any degree and I really don't know anything about the mechanics.


I guess I could point to a sample and ask opinions about which perspective, but I don't want to be seen as trying to hype my own junk (which is what I think a lot of it is), but ... Mother Pt 3.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I never studied writing to any degree and I really don't know anything about the mechanics.


I guess I could point to a sample and ask opinions about which perspective, but I don't want to be seen as trying to hype my own junk (which is what I think a lot of it is), but ... Mother Pt 3.

I'm pretty sure you're suggesting that you've never "formally" studied writing, but I would suggest that if you're actively writing, you're studying writing. There are some amazing people in this forum who know more about the mechanics of writing (along with the ins-and-outs of grammar) than I ever care to know, but I love reading their comments.

And links to examples are always helpful. For that matter, what's wrong with a little self-promotion?

 

[SimonDoom]

I never studied writing to any degree and I really don't know anything about the mechanics.


I guess I could point to a sample and ask opinions about which perspective, but I don't want to be seen as trying to hype my own junk (which is what I think a lot of it is), but ... Mother Pt 3.

If you read and write you probably know a lot more than you think you do. You just don't know some of the labels that people put on things. But that's much less important. Doing is more important than labeling.

Which is why, by the way, I think it's perfectly OK to do a little hyping of one's work in contributing to the forum. The whole point of the forum is to learn from one another and we learn more from reading stories than from talking about them.

 

[Ginlover]

The trickier form of omniscient is switching from one perspective to another within a scene. If you don't handle it skillfully you have the problem of "head-hopping", where the reader ping pongs back and forth between perspectives from one paragraph or sentence to the next. That can be annoying. If you stick to the "one perspective per scene" method you avoid this. I did this sometimes in my early stories, some of which were quite successful, but I shy away from this style now.

Head hopping seems to be more prevalent in romance/love/sex scenes and I don’t enjoy reading it. The most common I’ve seen is well written omniscient with changes in scene to define the new characters thoughts, then they start getting frisky and the writer jumps into every third person POV so I’m watching a tennis match instead of reading.

He had to kiss her, the urge was undeniable. She licked her lips reading his blatant expression of lust. He saw her tongue flick over her now moist lips, they looked delicious. She smiled as he moved closer, and feeling his hot, wet breath she desperately wanted him.

That loses intimacy for me and basically makes a scene twice as long as the writer describes exactly what each character is feeling rather than letting the reader work it out based on their actions.

Writing erotic tension is also difficult in head hopping. The reader knows if each character wants or doesn’t want the other. Ruining the flow.

He had to kiss her, the urge was undeniable. She hesitated because she was not sure he wanted her. He saw her tongue flick over her plump lips; did she want him or was she nervous? Her body vibrated wanting him and she smiled to encourage him. He wondered if he had something stuck between his teeth because of the strange smirk she was giving him