60 days for raping a 12 year old?

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Thanks, Lou. I appreciate that.

 

[Teenage Venus]

Don't bother replying, I'm not in the fucking mood.

Tough titty, tootsies

 

[Pure]

returning to topic

Why not go for the TV coverage as well?

Vigilante group trolls for pedophiles
Wired News
March 18, 2004

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,62650-2,00.html?tw=wn_story_page_1


In recent months, the [Perverted Justice] group has worked with television stations in eight cities across the nation to bust men on camera. In these media busts, Perverted Justice directs groups of men to a rented home in a residential area for what they believe will be a tryst with an adolescent girl; instead the men are greeted by a camera crew and a reporter sticking a microphone in their faces. In February, 16 men showed up for such a sting in Missouri and 20 showed up in Detroit.

The sensational reports have irked some communities, which have accused the group and the TV stations of endangering local children by bringing sexual predators into their neighborhoods.

Law enforcement officials and seasoned activists who work as decoys in Internet pedophilia investigations have also denounced the group's methods.


"The biggest difference between them and us is that we are governed by entrapment laws," said Sgt. Nick Battaglia, who heads the police department's child exploitation unit in San Jose, California. "Their hearts are in the right place, but the law needs to be enforced by someone who is qualified to enforce them. They need to be very careful or they could get in trouble themselves."

Battaglia said vigilantes like the Perverted Justice volunteers run the risk of being sued for defamation or invasion of privacy.

"If they're insinuating that someone is committing a criminal offense and putting their photograph and personal information online, they could be held liable in a civil suit," he said.

Battaglia's undercover operatives arrested 27 men in 2003 who arranged to meet police decoys posing as children, a misdemeanor that carries a three-year prison sentence in California and requires those convicted to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives.

Although the men listed on the Perverted Justice website are mercilessly hectored by the group's supporters, few have been charged with a crime. Nevertheless, the site says this public humiliation is enough to keep many perverts offline.

On a national scale, the problem is far larger than law enforcement agencies can handle -- each month, the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children receives more than 300 reports of sexual enticement of children over the Internet.

Increasingly, local police are relying on citizens to help them patrol the seedy underbelly of the Internet.

But police volunteers undergo extensive background checks and training on how to chat in a way that will build a criminal case against would-be pedophiles. Volunteers for Perverted Justice undergo no such training.

"These Perverted-Justice.com investigator wannabes think it's so easy to go into a chat room and just start talking, and for them it is, because they have no goals in mind other than humiliating someone and getting media attention," said Julie Posey, a Colorado activist who has worked with police in chat-room stings for eight years and helped convict more than 70 men.

But von Erck, Perverted-Justice.com's founder, denied Posey's accusations, pointing to a recent Michigan case in which a man duped by Perverted Justice faces 20 years in prison for attempting to bed a 14-year-old girl. He said there have been similar cases where the information collected by his volunteers has been the sole evidence in a court case, but that the group doesn't publicize these victories.

"As we grow and a legal precedent is continued to be set in our favor, you will see countless prosecutions," said von Erck. "That is where we will end up ultimately. All I have to say is, 'Just keep watching.'"
[end wired news story]

=====


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An interesting countermove from "no perverted justice" site: You could have just been busted!. (Note convenient location.)

Comments anyone?

http://www.nopervertedjustice.pochta.ru/
------

Internet problem; internet solution: An interesting countermove is at the "corrupted justice" site; lots of fact, opinion, and advice about the p j website and its persons ("baiters").

http://www.corrupted-justice.com/

{start excerpts}

The purpose of this website is to provide helpful information to people who have been ‘busted’ by, or come in contact with the website Perverted-Justice If you are here you obviously know something about Perverted-Justice. What you may not know are your rights. We here at corrupted-justice.com want to help you in that area. Whether you are here because you are a ‘bust’ of the Perverted-Justice website or you are a family member of a ‘bust’, we want to help you to deal with what has happened and learn how to proceed from here.

It should not need to be said, but for those that need to hear it; we at Corrupted-Justice.com do not condone pedophilia or any inappropriate contact between adults and children. Persons involved in those activities should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Therein lies the problem. We believe in law enforcement handling the prosecution of these things. Perverted-Justice is not law enforcement.

Your picture and personal information posted for the world to see, harassment of your family and friends, and calls to your workplace are not done by law enforcement. This is done by Perverted-Justice. They have ordained themselves your judge, your jury and basically your executioner. To say the least, we at Corrupted-Justice.com have problems with that.
---
{As to the bad results of the p j approach}

Real Predators Become Better Predators, and Real Offenders Avoid Prosecution:

Real predators who visit perverted-justice.com will learn from what they see, and realize the “lingo” and techniques that the perverted-justice.com “baiters” use to entrap their “busts”. This allows real predators to be a little more cautious when preying on minors, but in no way deters them from doing the preying. It is also a known fact that once a “bust” is posted, and the harassment and stalking begins, he will immediately clean out his computer of any evidence that may be stored on the computer (including child pornography, or other legitimate crime evidence). By perverted-justice.com NOT contacting authorities BEFORE they post the “bust” on their website, they can assure that any evidence that was on the “busts” computer will be gone by the time authorities show up at the door (if they even do).

{end excerpts from corrupted justice}

 

[CharleyH]

Excuse me if I am just catching up on this thread since I posted a hundred years ago. I hadn’t realized it had evolved into such an interesting banter.

Ah, Dr. M, at last someone speaks sanity of our objective journalists worldwide. Having been in PR for enough years, on both the receiving and feeding end, you can probably understand why I do not trust the motives of individuals in government, am cautious about how statistical information is spun by anyone, and suspicious of news since much editorial reflects a one-sided political agenda. Hard to avoid forming an opinion on any issue though, dammit.

Yes Box, it seems strange that, in Canada, the age of consent is younger for lesbians than for gay males. Ogg stated it best I think. Gotta love that Queen Vic. (Chuckles, and rolls eyes, thank god for me).

TV “I'm not against possible Pedo's being checked out . . . How many can survive being branded a Pedo???? Very few, I would hazzard.”

I understand what you are saying, but you have stated it in an odd way that I’m not sure you intended, and so Mlle, in her equally unique way, points it out and rightly so. True, an innocent person should not have to live with the stigma of being labelled a Pedophile. Unfortunately, there are many laws where you are guilty based on the mere fact that you have been charged or accused, and the mere charge or accusation, and the evidence which should not be allowed but is, can indeed prevent you from travelling to other countries, from seeking particular types of employment, or place you in awkward social moments. This is no exception, but it is a much larger debate than could be offered here.

More to my point: it is easier for a guilty pedophile, let alone an ‘innocent’ pedophile though I truly mean person, to survive a slanderous label than it is for many to survive a lifetime of hell because of the actions of a pedophile. I think you just need to re-phrase so that your intended meaning is clear. I am aware that you try to clarify.

Having sex is a BIG decision for a girl. Just wanted to say, oh, don’t be so certain lol.

Vigilante groups, who often go to extremes (while I understand the benefit for such groups in society) should act more as informants than take the law into their own hands. I have to wonder sometimes if they interferring in the process, and therefore benefitting the pedophiles that they hope to see behind bars?

 

[Teenage Venus]

Why not go for the TV coverage as well?

Two interesting articles.

Boiling them down into one sentence, they both seem to add up to, "Good intentions are not everything, ultimately, it is in everyone's interests to let professionals handle the problem."

The problem will not go away overnight. Resourses are limited. However, as much harm as good can be done by untrained, well-meaning 'meddlars'.

 

[Teenage Venus]

I understand what you are saying, but you have stated it in an odd way that I’m not sure you intended, and so Mlle, in her equally unique way, points it out and rightly so. True, an innocent person should not have to live with the stigma of being labelled a Pedophile. Unfortunately, there are many laws where you are guilty based on the mere fact that you have been charged or accused, and the mere charge or accusation, and the evidence which should not be allowed but is, can indeed prevent you from travelling to other countries, from seeking particular types of employment, or place you in awkward social moments. This is no exception, but it is a much larger debate than could be offered here.

I accept my way of expressing things may not always be with the clarity I intended. (I must work on that )

As you say, often, just having to attend court is sufficent to brand you for life, and deprive you of certain 'rights' ordinary citizens should enjoy. I venture that being branded a pedophile unfairly is probably one of the worst to endure. As such, amature 'do gooders' need to think before doing any branding.

I will not go into Mlle's unique way of expressing her opinions, as that is water under the bridge in my case.

More to my point: it is easier for a guilty pedophile, let alone an ‘innocent’ pedophile though I truly mean person, to survive a slanderous label than it is for many to survive a lifetime of hell because of the actions of a pedophile. I think you just need to re-phrase so that your intended meaning is clear. I am aware that you try to clarify.

I would change that to 'MANY' or 'SOME', in both cases.

Some, in either group survive better than others. In some cases, branding someone with no fair trial (As was the case under discusion) can do an innocent person as much damage as a rapist can do his/her victim.

In the illustration I provided, An inocent person and his family had their lives ruined, health and possessions destroyed, and the victim eventually committed suicide. I am the survivor off a gang rape. It may have left me with some scars that may not heal, but it has not been allowed to ruin my life totally.

I have/continue to get support. Those poor souls got none.

The point I have tried to make all along (not very successfully, admittedly), is that well-intentioned amature 'do-gooders' CAN and sometimes DO cause more grief to inocent persons than the criminals do their victims.

As such, in my opinion, they should act perhaps a little more responsibly, and within the law. By going outside the law, or taking it into their own hands, they align themselves with those criminals they seek to persue.

At the risk of repeating myself again: I'm NOT against their good intentions. I'm not necessarily against the way some persue their quarry. I AM against them NOT passing all relevent information they gather to the authorities (As a duty - not having to be asked), then leaving it to the law, legally chosen juries, or whatever, to decide the person's guilt or otherwise.

This opinion seems to be at odds with the views of some others. I accept that too; my opinion is not necessarily any more valid than theirs.

I do in my clumbsy way, try to express mine. That I do so in such a way as to have others reply with a torrent of personal abuse means my teachers were correct in commenting on my school report all the nice things, but adding, "Candida works well, but could do better."

(Just one flower, so you don't think I'm condescending, because I'm not. I enjoyed and appreciated your posting. Thank you)