A hair raising question

[Keroin]

My town did a really cool thing last year as part of our goal towards being greener. There is an area far down the lake that grows produce for sale in the local market. Well, last year, they transported it all by sailboat, using only wind power. The goods were picked up at the dock by a troop of bicycles with carrying attachments that pedaled it to our co-op. No petroleum was used for transport!

It was a huge success and everyone is back onboard for next year.

I know it's a small thing but it's the kind of thing that can happen when people really start brainstorming. Imagine what we - the world - could do, if we really made the effort?

 

[WriterDom]

Chevron I avoid. Never really liked BP either. And their safety record before this sucked.

But the corporations make most of their money from upstream operations. By selling all this oil that's now being pumped in the ocean.

 

[JMohegan]

Did someone miss where I mentioned that oil interests have paid for every single political candidate regardless of party affiliation?

Big Oil, Big Pharma, Wall Street - yes, I know.

Sometimes I think that without pending Supreme Court nominations, elections would be totally pointless.

Then I think about Palin and the banana peel, and, well, you know.

 

[Netzach]

Chevron I avoid. Never really liked BP either. And their safety record before this sucked.

But the corporations make most of their money from upstream operations. By selling all this oil that's now being pumped in the ocean.

It's crazy how bad it is. Didn't know till now - I'd pass them over based on labor violations alone had I known.

 

[Netzach]

Big Oil, Big Pharma, Wall Street - yes, I know.

Sometimes I think that without pending Supreme Court nominations, elections would be totally pointless.

Then I think about Palin and the banana peel, and, well, you know.

Methinks the Supremes just made it even worse.

 

[Keroin]

Chevron I avoid. Never really liked BP either. And their safety record before this sucked.

I have heard that BP's safety record, prior to this, was abysmal.

My friend the engineer said that these big operations not having decent emergency plans is actually pretty typical. When she went to one of the big hydro dams here, their earthquake emergency procedure was, literally, "Check for cracks." Then there was a phone number to call, (some guy in Vancouver, 7 hours away), if a crack was spotted. Yeah, she fixed that.

 

[JMohegan]

Methinks the Supremes just made it even worse.

*shakes head like Alito*

 

[callinectes2]

Did you read the link I posted? If so, your definition of "scratch" and mine are clearly quite different.

I'm sure he is hard working, though, yes.

By the way, callinectes, if you check out the link I posted, you'll see a Monthly Royalty section. They don't disclose the percentage, but the existence of an ongoing royalty indicates that boycotting BP stores does, in fact, hit BP's bottom line.

You're right, of course, that the big wigs will still have fat bank accounts when this is all over. But even if your dream of making them "pay fines out of the ass!" comes true, that will still hit relatively innocent people who had no direct part in this.

Pension plans, IRAs, mutual fund shareholders. That's who gets hit when the corporate bottom line gets cut. And if the expenses of cleanup and fines are big enough, there could be BP lower level layoffs. Hell, the federally imposed freeze on drilling is already hitting employment along the Coast.

I use the phrase "relatively innocent," because if you climb into bed with the devil - whether by taking a job, or investing in a franchise, or purchasing stock - well, "relative" is the best that I've got.

I checked out your link this AM, JMo. I won't pretend to know the finer details of his businessess. but I don't think his franchise is like those in your link. I do know eh didn't have that kind of cash when he opened his first store. His C-stores carry a family name and have no merchandise branded "ampm" or "BP". He simply sells gas purchased from BP, which in some cases isn't even refined by BP it may just have BP additives.

The guy's mistake is he climbed in bed with BP as opposed to Shell or Conoco. Yep, he deserves to be crucified for that. Believe me, if he could switch suppliers he would.

I fully admit I am not taking the long view on this. I see what I believe is a mis-directed boycott and it makes me very sad for him and his family.

Interestingly, shrimpers in my state are scared to death that Gulf shrimpers are going to come over here enmasse and start fishing out our stocks. They are actually in the process of drafting a petition to the governor to put an emergency restriction on out-of-state license sales. Funny how you can feel really bad for others but still feel the need to protect what you have.

 

[callinectes2]

.

As for the big wigs, with the funny money salaries and golden parachutes and multiple options for landing on their feet even if they're let go, the only thing they really fear is the perp walk. Which is why, of all the pressures we could & should be bringing to bear, the political pressure to prosecute to the fullest is the one I believe makes the most sense.

\]

This..yes, you are right. I hadn't quite thought of it that way.

 

[JMohegan]

I share everyone's hatred for BP but I am on a mission to educate folks about boycotting BP gas stations. BP does not own any gas stations in the US. All are franchises, many are small business owners. A gas station selling BP branded gas may not even be from a BP refinery. If it has BP branded additives then it is marketed as a BP brand, regardless of where it was refined.

Am I biased? Yes! A dear friend owns three BP branded convenience stores and he is getting royally screwed by uninformed boycotters. His only crime is not having the foresight to know this horrible tragedy would occur.

Please, when you talk about boycotting BP, remember that you may be hurting a small business owner in your community..you certainly are not affecting the corporate bottom line of BP. Use that energy to lobby for them to pay fines out of the ass!

I checked out your link this AM, JMo. I won't pretend to know the finer details of his businessess. but I don't think his franchise is like those in your link. I do know eh didn't have that kind of cash when he opened his first store. His C-stores carry a family name and have no merchandise branded "ampm" or "BP". He simply sells gas purchased from BP, which in some cases isn't even refined by BP it may just have BP additives.

The guy's mistake is he climbed in bed with BP as opposed to Shell or Conoco. Yep, he deserves to be crucified for that. Believe me, if he could switch suppliers he would.

I fully admit I am not taking the long view on this. I see what I believe is a mis-directed boycott and it makes me very sad for him and his family.

Interestingly, shrimpers in my state are scared to death that Gulf shrimpers are going to come over here enmasse and start fishing out our stocks. They are actually in the process of drafting a petition to the governor to put an emergency restriction on out-of-state license sales. Funny how you can feel really bad for others but still feel the need to protect what you have.

Apologies for putting up the incorrect link. I misunderstood the reference to "BP branded convenience stores" in your earlier post.

However, my overall point stands. Your friend can't claim 'hey, I just happen to have this logo over my gas pump, money spent here has nothing to do with BP's bottom line.'

In addition to the fact that BP's pockets are lined when your friend buys wholesale from that company (regardless of where it was refined), there is also the fact that franchisees pay fees and royalties to BP for the privilege of hanging up that logo. If you don't believe me, or wonder why, check this out.



"BP offers significant advertising support, regional sponsorship programs and onsite promotions to build brand awareness, cultivate consumer loyalty and help drive more traffic to BP sites. We utilize radio advertising, direct and online marketing, as well as events and sponsorships to move consumers to a more purposeful and intimate interaction with the BP brand.

BP prides itself on the consumer experience. Consumers know when they’re on the road, they can count on BP for a safe, reliable and clean experience. Through our site evaluation program, we periodically measure and monitor your brand execution and the consumer experience at your site to ensure we maintain the integrity of the brand throughout the network.

BP provides three grades of quality Amoco gasoline: regular, mid-grade (Silver) and premium (Ultimate) in all of our markets. In an annual nationwide survey of motorists*, consumers have voted Amoco Ultimate® #1 in quality for more than a decade. This significant, ongoing consumer following brings greater value and incremental revenue to your site as a BP Branded Marketer. We even guarantee our fuel quality in writing – with a money back promise – the only major energy company to do so."



I'm not trying to single out your friend for crucifixion. But I do disagree with the comments you made in trying to "educate folks" about BP gas stations. Your claim that boycotts "are not affecting the corporate bottom line of BP" is just not borne out by the facts.

 

[Homburg]

Cross-posting from the What Made You Smile Today? thread, but the link in Kitty's post cracked me up. It's a perfectly redneck categorization of the whole mess.

Great video!

--

There is some interesting work being done with algae - for use as fuel. I'm not kidding. I have a friend who knows about it, I'll have to get some factual details from him.

This is literally the only ray of hope that see on the horizon. The only currently feasible way to move tonnage to the destinations it needs to be moved to is diesel, plain and simple. Biodiesel (meaning the current form from recycled cooking oil) is fine and dandy, but cannot be produced in amounts that would make a dent in commercial need. Electric power is cutesy and wildly ineffective when you look at it from the commercial scale, and requires carbon production up the chain.

The bio-oil producing algae is a fantastic idea. Algae grows stunningly fast and needs very little. The biggest requirement honestly is space, and they are working on some really interesting way to cut down on that as well.

There is actually an entirely new field of energy production study that popped up recently, and it is mind-blowing to say that.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2010/thermopower-waves-0308.html

This is crazy stuff.

That said, petroleum will be around a long time, and it will take a production crash before real, meaningful progress is made on the driver level.

 

[callinectes2]

Apologies for putting up the incorrect link. I misunderstood the reference to "BP branded convenience stores" in your earlier post.

However, my overall point stands. Your friend can't claim 'hey, I just happen to have this logo over my gas pump, money spent here has nothing to do with BP's bottom line.'

In addition to the fact that BP's pockets are lined when your friend buys wholesale from that company (regardless of where it was refined), there is also the fact that franchisees pay fees and royalties to BP for the privilege of hanging up that logo. If you don't believe me, or wonder why, check this out.



"BP offers significant advertising support, regional sponsorship programs and onsite promotions to build brand awareness, cultivate consumer loyalty and help drive more traffic to BP sites. We utilize radio advertising, direct and online marketing, as well as events and sponsorships to move consumers to a more purposeful and intimate interaction with the BP brand.

BP prides itself on the consumer experience. Consumers know when they’re on the road, they can count on BP for a safe, reliable and clean experience. Through our site evaluation program, we periodically measure and monitor your brand execution and the consumer experience at your site to ensure we maintain the integrity of the brand throughout the network.

BP provides three grades of quality Amoco gasoline: regular, mid-grade (Silver) and premium (Ultimate) in all of our markets. In an annual nationwide survey of motorists*, consumers have voted Amoco Ultimate® #1 in quality for more than a decade. This significant, ongoing consumer following brings greater value and incremental revenue to your site as a BP Branded Marketer. We even guarantee our fuel quality in writing – with a money back promise – the only major energy company to do so."



I'm not trying to single out your friend for crucifixion. But I do disagree with the comments you made in trying to "educate folks" about BP gas stations. Your claim that boycotts "are not affecting the corporate bottom line of BP" is just not borne out by the facts.

Okay, okay, in my passion for my friend's plight I am overstating. can we agree it is fair to say that a boycott of his stores is going to hurt him a whole lot more than it will BP?

I still you but you sure are being a hard ass about this.

 

[JMohegan]

Okay, okay, in my passion for my friend's plight I am overstating. can we agree it is fair to say that a boycott of his stores is going to hurt him a whole lot more than it will BP?

I still you but you sure are being a hard ass about this.

It's not in my nature to let misinformation stand, on a subject that's this important.

I'm sorry for your friend, as I've already said. And I agree with your statement about relative pain in a single store.

 

[JMohegan]

Photos at the link below. Not for the faint of heart.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/06/caught_in_the_oil.html

 

[Netzach]

Birds covered in it. And people breathing it. I am terrified to think of the long-term prognosis for people right on the coast, the cleanup crews, the bird-washers. Of which I might be one if I wasn't landlocked.

 

[Keroin]

Also, when it comes to the environment, it is not yours, or mine, it belongs to everyone. Many of the species that inhabit the Gulf are migratory, which means they could be species from any number of states or countries. There is only one ocean and it belongs to all of us.

As I was saying...

 

[Netzach]

I wonder what kind of sanctions we'd be screaming for if say, Venezuela dumped enough oil to go upstream and fuck our shit up.

 

[Recidiva]

Donate pretty hair for making wigs.

Maybe go around to barber shops and salons and see if you can set up a clippings collection. They might give up their trash for the environment. If successful, present BP with bill. Plus...whatever you want.

Wait for reimbursement and peace on earth.

 

[Keroin]

I wonder what kind of sanctions we'd be screaming for if say, Venezuela dumped enough oil to go upstream and fuck our shit up.

Ha, very good question.

 

[JMohegan]

Birds covered in it. And people breathing it. I am terrified to think of the long-term prognosis for people right on the coast, the cleanup crews, the bird-washers. Of which I might be one if I wasn't landlocked.

Yeah, it's just frustrating as hell to sit here and watch it all play out in slow motion. The workers are already getting sick, and BP's already ducking responsibility by claiming it must be food poisoning. I don't know of any way to help from up north, except to boycott BP and encourage everyone you know to do the same, in order to maintain some sort of pressure on those bastards to do the right thing.

The IBRRC is coordinating bird washing. Little girls in my neighborhood are going door to door, collecting "pennies for pelicans," to send to those folks.

The girls also told me that if you buy a bottle of Dawn dishwashing liquid, and then go online to input the number off the back of the bottle, P&G will donate $1 to the IRRC. Here's the US link, and here's the Canadian link for anyone interested.

 

[Netzach]

Cool.

I tend to be more of a stewardship than animal rights person, but I really appreciated this article, which the comments on the pics linked to.
http://www.interspecies.com/pages/washbirds.html

 

[Homburg]

Cool.

I tend to be more of a stewardship than animal rights person, but I really appreciated this article, which the comments on the pics linked to.
http://www.interspecies.com/pages/washbirds.html

The word "atone" is very apt in that piece.

I can imagine no way in which someone could look at the pics in the link JM provided, feel remorse and a desire to help, and somehow be wrong in feeling that.

We FUCKED those animals. I don't care how minimal the impact is, someone that wishes to volunteer their time and energy in an attempt to unfuck them is good people in my book.

 

[JMohegan]

Cool.

I tend to be more of a stewardship than animal rights person, but I really appreciated this article, which the comments on the pics linked to.
http://www.interspecies.com/pages/washbirds.html

Christ almighty. Environmental extremists are just as bad as ideological extremist religious nuts.

I tend to be a fan of leaving nature alone, as much as possible. But I also pick worms up off the sidewalk, and place them carefully back in the dirt.

 

[JMohegan]

The word "atone" is very apt in that piece.

I can imagine no way in which someone could look at the pics in the link JM provided, feel remorse and a desire to help, and somehow be wrong in feeling that.

We FUCKED those animals. I don't care how minimal the impact is, someone that wishes to volunteer their time and energy in an attempt to unfuck them is good people in my book.

Agreed, 100%.

 

[Recidiva]

Yeah, it's just frustrating as hell to sit here and watch it all play out in slow motion. The workers are already getting sick, and BP's already ducking responsibility by claiming it must be food poisoning. I don't know of any way to help from up north, except to boycott BP and encourage everyone you know to do the same, in order to maintain some sort of pressure on those bastards to do the right thing.

The IBRRC is coordinating bird washing. Little girls in my neighborhood are going door to door, collecting "pennies for pelicans," to send to those folks.

The girls also told me that if you buy a bottle of Dawn dishwashing liquid, and then go online to input the number off the back of the bottle, P&G will donate $1 to the IRRC. Here's the US link, and here's the Canadian link for anyone interested.

As much as I despise the neglect and the greed and pure hubris that led up to this event and continues on unabated in "who do we blame today" game...

I'd like to give a sincere thanks to those who are donating and getting down and dirty with toothbrushes.