A question about transsexuals

[snowy ciara]

MMMMmhh.... tea with stefani! momentarily distracted by pervalicious thoughts Oh wait, I had a comment here somewhere.... Sorry 'bout that....

Wolf, always nice to meet a man with the courage to date a TS. Not many men are that understanding. I've had men try to pick me up in clubs, then when I tell them my real deal, they literally turn white. We're definitely not everyone's cup of tea, so I've learned to appreciate open-minded people.

You had mentioned that you've dated both men and women, so I was wondering. It seems that some men can't handle your "real deal". So, going off the fact that you're female, it seems most women that are displaying an active interest would define themselves as lesbian or bi-sexual. Do they react differently to your "real deal" then the het men? Do they tend to be more accepting or less? I'm betting the jerk percentage of the population is similar no matter what the person's sexuality is, but I've heard (in a totally non scientific, gossiping sort of way) that lesbians tend to be more accepting of a person than heterosexual men. I've not experienced it, really, so I was just wondering what your take on it is.

 

[Stefani]

MMMMmhh.... tea with stefani! momentarily distracted by pervalicious thoughts Oh wait, I had a comment here somewhere.... Sorry 'bout that.....

Feel like i've just been perved. No apologies necessary.

You had mentioned that you've dated both men and women, so I was wondering. It seems that some men can't handle your "real deal". So, going off the fact that you're female, it seems most women that are displaying an active interest would define themselves as lesbian or bi-sexual. Do they react differently to your "real deal" then the het men? Do they tend to be more accepting or less? I'm betting the jerk percentage of the population is similar no matter what the person's sexuality is, but I've heard (in a totally non scientific, gossiping sort of way) that lesbians tend to be more accepting of a person than heterosexual men. I've not experienced it, really, so I was just wondering what your take on it is.

Ciara,

No, the jerk population is fairly evenly split. I've met as many opinionated lesbians and gays as I have straight men and straight women. Have dated people among every group as well.

When I started transition 10 years ago and went from dressing as a boy to a girl, EVERYONE gave me a hard time. Whether they were gay, lesbian, or straight, everyone had an opinion, all of which was bad. I hated having gay men and straight women come up to me and say, "You were so hot as a guy. I had such a crush on you. Why are you doing this?" God, I hated hearing that. It made me disassociate from all my friends and start socializing in Manhattan, where I went for years. Finally my friends started to come around and accept me, and began calling me, telling me to hang out with them, which I did. So it took a while, but eventually my friends came to totally accept me this way.

What I dislike most, is when someone trys to change me. Specifically, I dated a gay man and a straight woman - who both tried to change me from a woman back into a man. Which I disliked. Accept me for who I am, right?

Generally lesbians and gays don't want anything to do with me. Gays want a macho man, and lesbians want someone with a vagina. So although I've dated both, they ultimately don't work.

The best people for me, personally, have been other bisexuals. Bisexual men and bisexual woman treat me the best. They don't try to change me. And they absolutely love me the way I am. The problem with bisexual men is, they blend into the straight world, and have a deathly fear of being labelled "gay." Which makes it hard for them to date someone like me openly. Which sort of makes bisexual women my best option for dating. Dated a bisexual woman last year who was just incredible. She introduced me to all her friends and family, and was quite proud of me. She didn't bat an eyelash when going anywhere with me, and bought me tons of clothes and lingerie. All of which I absolutely loved.

Steffie

 

[John Doe]

Hm... why do you say that a TS is "neither" a man or a woman. On the contrary, I consider myself "both" a woman and a man. I have breasts and a penis, doesn't that make me a bit of both?

Not necessarily. Men also have breasts, but they're just not as big as women's breasts (usually).

 

[John Doe]

What I dislike most, is when someone trys to change me. Specifically, I dated a gay man and a straight woman - who both tried to change me from a woman back into a man. Which I disliked. Accept me for who I am, right?

You didn't expect that? As an MTF transexual, someone who identifies as female, would that not be at odds with what gay men or straight women are looking for? Specifically a man.

 

[bimori]

The best people for me, personally, have been other bisexuals. Bisexual men and bisexual woman treat me the best. They don't try to change me. And they absolutely love me the way I am. The problem with bisexual men is, they blend into the straight world, and have a deathly fear of being labelled "gay." Which makes it hard for them to date someone like me openly. Which sort of makes bisexual women my best option for dating. Dated a bisexual woman last year who was just incredible. She introduced me to all her friends and family, and was quite proud of me. She didn't bat an eyelash when going anywhere with me, and bought me tons of clothes and lingerie. All of which I absolutely loved.

Steffie[/QUOTE]
I agree I find that the gay world does not except Bisexuals . I have been told that I need to chose which 1 I want to be with . I see you as the best of both worlds love .

 

[PT-NH]

.....

 

[Stefani]

You didn't expect that? As an MTF transexual, someone who identifies as female, would that not be at odds with what gay men or straight women are looking for? Specifically a man.

I expect that if someone tells me that they love me, that they love me for who I am... not who they can change me into.

I'm probably naive in that i feel that i can love anyone... gay, straight, bisexual, male, female, black,white, whatever... and take them for exactly who they are. I guess I expect the same treatment. But I don't always get it.

It's strange to me, but some people love you not for who you are, but for what they can make you become.

As a TS, sometimes people treat me like my gender is a bouncing ball, and they can simply put a spin on me and make me male or female, whatever they desire.

 

[horus1953]

I expect that if someone tells me that they love me, that they love me for who I am... not who they can change me into.

You're not alone there Stef. It takes a long time to find someone who does accept you for who, not what you are. I've got the scars to prove it.

Anyway, Happy Monday. Hope you have a good week.

 

[snowy ciara]

Thanks steffi...

I've found more acceptance of my bisexuality among the gay male community than I have among lesbians and straights. While a signifignant of lesbians and het men tell me to get off the fence and choose one or the other, I've only had one gay male tell me that. I wonder why that is? I was thinking the jerk segment of population would be somewhat static among all genders.

 

[2uprup]

so true...

I believe that Stefani is "right on" when it comes to the stereotype that people have towards transexuals. I consider myself to be a bisexual male even though I have never had any experience with any males. Stefani has a very good point that bisexuals treat everyone as an equal and that is because we appreciate both sex's. Man what I would do to meet someone like Stefani!

 

[John Doe]

I expect that if someone tells me that they love me, that they love me for who I am... not who they can change me into.

Depends ont he kind of lvoe you're talking about, but expecting to be in a trouble-free romantic relationship with someone whose sexuality is not compatible with your gender is just unrealistic. It would be like me trying to be in a relationship with a lesbian. In the end she just wouldn't get past the fact that I've got different parts, or she would try to feminize me. That is human nature.

I'm probably naive in that i feel that i can love anyone... gay, straight, bisexual, male, female, black,white, whatever... and take them for exactly who they are. I guess I expect the same treatment. But I don't always get it.

Unconditional love is very rare, even in bisexuals. So it's even riskier to look for it in someone who has a more exclusive sexuality to begin with.

It's strange to me, but some people love you not for who you are, but for what they can make you become.

That's quite often the case. people judge a partner based on 'potential' rather than qualities.

As a TS, sometimes people treat me like my gender is a bouncing ball, and they can simply put a spin on me and make me male or female, whatever they desire.

It's easy to see why people might draw that conclusiuon though. To some extent it's true. Most people believe that you are born either male or female and that's it. So when a transexual comes along and challenges that belief, it doesn't take much of a leap to think that gender can be more fluid in either direction, not just one.

Part of the problem, as I said, is that you took up a lost cause to begin with. Essentially you expected something that wasn't in them, just as they did of you.

 

[Etoile]

Anybody expecting to be in a trouble-free romantic relationship is being unrealistic IMHO.

 

[John Doe]

Anybody expecting to be in a trouble-free romantic relationship is being unrealistic IMHO.

Of course you would think so. you enjoy conflict, but most people don't.

 

[Stefani]

I suppose Etoile is right, but I agree with you Stup, I'm not looking for trouble. I play the supportive role in any relationship I've been in, and am more the lover than a fighter. But I am attracted to strong-willed partners, which usually means they're giving me trouble sooner or later.

Maybe I should explain the gay man and straight woman I got involved with. I was living with the gay man 10 years ago when I started my transition. He watched me change from a man into a woman. Naturally he loved me as a man, so we were destined to part ways, which we did. Would have been nice if he'd continued loving me for who I was, but even I couldn't expect that. What gay man wants a boyfriend with breasts? Still, I know he cared about me deeply and struggled with whether to stay or go for a long time. We're still friends, and he often tells me that our years together were among the happiest in his life, so I know our time together is still special to him.

The straight woman I got involved with was someone that i worked with. I work as a writer at an avertising agency and she was teamed with me as my graphic artist. We worked side by side every day for several years, became very close, and eventually became lovers. With me on hormones, it was difficult for me to play the traditional male role in bed, so she pressured me to get off hormones so I could satisfy her that way. I was able to satisfy her other ways, and so we were quite happy together for a while, but she kept pressuring me to get off the 'mones and go back to being a man, so eventually we too parted ways. Still, it was great while it lasted. To this day she is one of my best friends.

So you're right, both were doomed from the start. But emotionally, i'd say i got a lot of out the relationships, and I still care about both of them deeply.

 

[John Doe]

I suppose Etoile is right, but I agree with you Stup, I'm not looking for trouble. I play the supportive role in any relationship I've been in, and am more the lover than a fighter. But I am attracted to strong-willed partners, which usually means they're giving me trouble sooner or later.

Maybe I should explain the gay man and straight woman I got involved with. I was living with the gay man 10 years ago when I started my transition. He watched me change from a man into a woman. Naturally he loved me as a man, so we were destined to part ways, which we did. Would have been nice if he'd continued loving me for who I was, but even I couldn't expect that. What gay man wants a boyfriend with breasts? Still, I know he cared about me deeply and struggled with whether to stay or go for a long time. We're still friends, and he often tells me that our years together were among the happiest in his life, so I know our time together is still special to him.

The straight woman I got involved with was someone that i worked with. I work as a writer at an avertising agency and she was teamed with me as my graphic artist. We worked side by side every day for several years, became very close, and eventually became lovers. With me on hormones, it was difficult for me to play the traditional male role in bed, so she pressured me to get off hormones so I could satisfy her that way. I was able to satisfy her other ways, and so we were quite happy together for a while, but she kept pressuring me to get off the 'mones and go back to being a man, so eventually we too parted ways. Still, it was great while it lasted. To this day she is one of my best friends.

So you're right, both were doomed from the start. But emotionally, i'd say i got a lot of out the relationships, and I still care about both of them deeply.

Depending on how you look at it, it could be suggested that all relationships are doomed from the start, except for the one that sticks.

 

[snowy ciara]

Depending on how you look at it, it could be suggested that all relationships are doomed from the start, except for the one that sticks.

But do you count a terminated relationship as a failed one? I consider my one relationship to have failed. It was unhealthy and abusive and I didn't get out of it fast enough when it went south, so it culminated in a meltdown of epic proportions. But, sometimes relationships just end. There's a bit of sadness of course, but they reach a natural termination point. Neither person (or persons, if it was poly) hate the other, but times changed and the people changed and they ended the intimate relationship. They may or may not still be friends, depending on how interests changed. But if the people were happy for the time they spent together and no one was hurt in the break-up, is it really failed? I'd count it as successful, myself I think.

 

[Etoile]

Of course you would think so. you enjoy conflict, but most people don't.

Thanks for sharing that assumption, but you don't know me well at all.

 

[Stefani]

But if the people were happy for the time they spent together and no one was hurt in the break-up, is it really failed? I'd count it as successful, myself I think.

I agree.

Because something lasts forever doesn't make it successful. A sizeable number of longterm marriages today are unhappy ones.

You can find happiness in a month together, 9 1/2 weeks, a year... or in just a day. Why does something have to last forever for it to be judged happy or successful?

I lived with someone for 6 years who died Oct 23, 1995. I consider it the best relationship I've ever been involved in, nor do I count it a failure because he died. Nor do I regret getting involved with him, quite the opposite. I feel lucky to have spent the time with him that I did. Even though I was a basketcase for several years after his death, I wouldn't change a thing about our relationship even knowing what I know today (well, except possibly warning him about going to Detroit).

Steffie

 

[robbie_boy1]

91/2 weeks

I agree.

Because something lasts forever doesn't make it successful. A sizeable number of longterm marriages today are unhappy ones.

You can find happiness in a month together, 9 1/2 weeks, a year... or in just a day. Why does something have to last forever for it to be judged happy or successful?

I lived with someone for 6 years who died Oct 23, 1995. I consider it the best relationship I've ever been involved in, nor do I count it a failure because he died. Nor do I regret getting involved with him, quite the opposite. I feel lucky to have spent the time with him that I did. Even though I was a basketcase for several years after his death, I wouldn't change a thing about our relationship even knowing what I know today (well, except possibly warning him about going to Detroit).

Steffie

mmmmmmmmmmmm 91/2 weeks.........love the scene where they fuck under a gutter spewing water in the rain........care to join me *wink*.....hehehe

r

 

[John Doe]

But do you count a terminated relationship as a failed one? I consider my one relationship to have failed. It was unhealthy and abusive and I didn't get out of it fast enough when it went south, so it culminated in a meltdown of epic proportions. But, sometimes relationships just end. There's a bit of sadness of course, but they reach a natural termination point. Neither person (or persons, if it was poly) hate the other, but times changed and the people changed and they ended the intimate relationship. They may or may not still be friends, depending on how interests changed. But if the people were happy for the time they spent together and no one was hurt in the break-up, is it really failed? I'd count it as successful, myself I think.

Like I said, it depends on how you look at it.

 

[John Doe]

Thanks for sharing that assumption, but you don't know me well at all.

It's not an assumption, and I don't recall anyone else sharing it.

This is a perfect example of what I was saying. If you didn't enjoy conflict you would've let it slide.

 

[John Doe]

I agree.

Because something lasts forever doesn't make it successful. A sizeable number of longterm marriages today are unhappy ones.

You can find happiness in a month together, 9 1/2 weeks, a year... or in just a day. Why does something have to last forever for it to be judged happy or successful?

I lived with someone for 6 years who died Oct 23, 1995. I consider it the best relationship I've ever been involved in, nor do I count it a failure because he died. Nor do I regret getting involved with him, quite the opposite. I feel lucky to have spent the time with him that I did. Even though I was a basketcase for several years after his death, I wouldn't change a thing about our relationship even knowing what I know today (well, except possibly warning him about going to Detroit).

Steffie

A shitty relationship that lasts isn't "the one that sticks", it just won't die.

 

[Etoile]

It's not an assumption, and I don't recall anyone else sharing it.

This is a perfect example of what I was saying. If you didn't enjoy conflict you would've let it slide.

Do you really think anybody believes you when you say things like this? Do you really think anybody believes I was saying that to provoke conflict rather than in self-defense?

 

[John Doe]

Do you really think anybody believes you when you say things like this? Do you really think anybody believes I was saying that to provoke conflict rather than in self-defense?

Say things like what? I don't care what people believe, and I don't think you have any idea what I'm saying...

I never said you were saying it to provoke conflict. I just said it supports my observation. And to do or say something in self-defense you have to be under attack first. Since I was merely making an observation that is not the case.

Methinks you doth protest too much.

 

[mercury93]

bicuriousosaur: pre-everything FTM here... ask me anything you like.