A question about transsexuals

[eager_sissy]

Hm... why do you say that a TS is "neither" a man or a woman. On the contrary, I consider myself "both" a woman and a man. I have breasts and a penis, doesn't that make me a bit of both?

Not to be hyper-sensitive but...

Your comment "would you do" typifies the attitude most people have about transsexuals. We're for sex only. Wind us up, stick your penis in, and see if we spit out quarters.

I'd much rather know if people would be willing to have a "relationship" with a transsexual. Plenty of men are quite willing to screw our brains out, very few have the guts to actually date us and take us home to meet momma.

Steffie

my problem is I like both sexes yet in a permenant relationship a threesome is normally a problem. for me a transgendered person would be the best of everything and I could have a monogamous relationship and a life partner. One nighter have never really appealed to me, you learn so much everytime you make love that it only gets better with time. But, despite years of searching I have had no luck at all finding the one I would love to devote my life to. it has been 6 years since I have had sex because of my feelings about one nighters...lol...would love to meet one who feels as I do.....I am willing to take a chance on a threesome but would rather find a tg to be with.

 

[bimori]

bicuriousosaur: pre-everything FTM here... ask me anything you like.

Hi i'm from New Hampshire I just love maine . NIce to meet you

 

[Etoile]

my problem is I like both sexes yet in a permenant relationship a threesome is normally a problem. for me a transgendered person would be the best of everything and I could have a monogamous relationship and a life partner. One nighter have never really appealed to me, you learn so much everytime you make love that it only gets better with time. But, despite years of searching I have had no luck at all finding the one I would love to devote my life to. it has been 6 years since I have had sex because of my feelings about one nighters...lol...would love to meet one who feels as I do.....I am willing to take a chance on a threesome but would rather find a tg to be with.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel that a transgendered person would be the "best of everything?" Many people who describe themselves as transgender prefer to identify as just one gender (the "target" gender).

 

[eager_sissy]

best of both

Out of curiosity, why do you feel that a transgendered person would be the "best of everything?" Many people who describe themselves as transgender prefer to identify as just one gender (the "target" gender).

I love the feel of a breast in my hand...against my back when snuggling in bed, I appriciate the way a beautful woman looks...the long hair...legs that go up and disappear under a dress....the way they look when demurely crossed...

and I would like to have the male genitals for making love....as I said the best of both genders...

 

[Etoile]

I love the feel of a breast in my hand...against my back when snuggling in bed, I appriciate the way a beautful woman looks...the long hair...legs that go up and disappear under a dress....the way they look when demurely crossed...

and I would like to have the male genitals for making love....as I said the best of both genders...

I think this is a common misconception about MTF transsexuals. (I'm going to assume you're only interested in MTF, so you're leaving out almost half the trans population...) We had a thread about the "best of both worlds" concept not too long ago. I have known too many transwomen who have struggled to be who they are today - they don't want their male genitals to be acknowledged, because they don't feel that they are male. Even non-op transwomen may feel this way. But going through the process of getting top surgery (which includes lots of therapy before you can even get to that point) means that she has risked a lot to get there and she may not be interested in being reminded that she hasn't been able to afford bottom surgery yet.

I know there are transwomen out there who don't feel this way and enjoy being in the middle, but the "best of both worlds" theory is so common that I feel compelled to point out that it's a generalization and not wholly considerate of the trans experience.

 

[eager_sissy]

I think this is a common misconception about MTF transsexuals. (I'm going to assume you're only interested in MTF, so you're leaving out almost half the trans population...) We had a thread about the "best of both worlds" concept not too long ago. I have known too many transwomen who have struggled to be who they are today - they don't want their male genitals to be acknowledged, because they don't feel that they are male. Even non-op transwomen may feel this way. But going through the process of getting top surgery (which includes lots of therapy before you can even get to that point) means that she has risked a lot to get there and she may not be interested in being reminded that she hasn't been able to afford bottom surgery yet.

I know there are transwomen out there who don't feel this way and enjoy being in the middle, but the "best of both worlds" theory is so common that I feel compelled to point out that it's a generalization and not wholly considerate of the trans experience.

I do understand that and did not realize I made the generalization that I felt all tg persons enjoy the use of their gender given genitals...I am sure I didn't as a matter of fact , but be that as it may I seem to have offended by ommission if nothing else. sorry....

 

[JeanetteLv2]

Stefani... the names you were looking for are Gwen Araujo (the young transwoman that was killed in California... retrial recently began btw)... and Barry Winchell (soldier killed in military by bunkmate for dating Calpernia Addams).

 

[ddred1]

Stef i got to say I enjoyed reading your replys, and all the others. Cased a bit of thinking on my part. If by chance I did meet and found out she was a TG I would be impressed. THe only problem witha relationship I see is the fact I am bi. I would miss seeing, touching and having sex with a vagina. but then again who knows? As I havent had many bi experience to speak of.

 

[onceburned]

Out of curiosity, why do you feel that a transgendered person would be the "best of everything?" Many people who describe themselves as transgender prefer to identify as just one gender (the "target" gender).

Yes, but I wonder if its the dual nature of transgender folk that is attractive to non-transgender persons?

If so, is the attraction lost if transition is completed?

 

[shemaluver]

transex

Well, I am watching Maury Povich today, and he was having female to male transsexuals. Anyway, it got me wonder, would you guys (or girls) do a person who neither a man or woman?

Certainly. I am a guy (straight) but I love transexuals. I have a few shemale friends. Almost all shemales felt that there was a mistake made when they were born - somehow a girl's soul is being put into a male body. At least in the Far East, they feel that way and that's why most of them wish to have the final operation of sex change.

I really enjoy shemales and we do each other. I like the ones with large dick.

Shemaluver

 

[Stefani]

Stefani... the names you were looking for are Gwen Araujo (the young transwoman that was killed in California... retrial recently began btw)... and Barry Winchell (soldier killed in military by bunkmate for dating Calpernia Addams).

Hey Jen,

Thanks for the additional info. I'm always a little fuzzy on the exact details like names. ;-)

You mentioned a retrial in the Gwen Araujo case. What's that all about? Did they convict the boys who murdered her, and now they're asking for a retrial?

Did you see the movie "A Soldier's Story"? On the DVD among the special features they have a nice interview with Calpernia. She's had her SRS surgery, and looks quite good - better than the man they picked to play her part.

Stay sweet,
Steffie

 

[Stefani]

Yes, but I wonder if its the dual nature of transgender folk that is attractive to non-transgender persons?

If so, is the attraction lost if transition is completed?

You can't really generalize any of these things. There are pre-op transsexuals that hate using their penis, that don't go near it, and others who never want to go through SRS surgery and love using it. (Personally, I don't understand why a TS would go thru so many changes to look like a woman and then behave like a man in bed - but that's just me)

Yes, I think it is the dual nature that attracts a lot of people. Can't begin to tell you the number of men who have come on to me with the line, "You're the best of both worlds." We look like a woman, which appeals to the man's straight side, but we have a penis, which appeals to their bi or gay side.

There is also this myth that TS's understand a man's body better than a woman, so we know how to please a man, which may or may not be true. There are asexual TS's out there who know nothing about pleasing a man much less themself, and there are plenty of women out there who can rock a man's world. So some of these generalizations do not always hold true. I know 2 post-op transsexuals who have NEVER even had sex with a man in their life - so how well could the ever please a man?

I've met men and women who have told me they could care less if I ever got a sex change - and others who have told me they would leave me if I did. So again, it's all up to the individual.

Stay sweet,
Steffie

 

[onceburned]

Steffie, thank you for sharing your experience and insights.

The Gwen Araujo defendents are being retried because the first jury could not agree whether they were guilty of murder or guilty of manslaughter (which has lesser penalties).

The manslaugher defense is based upon the idea that the defendants killed Gwen in a moment of panic upon discovering that she was not biologically female.

 

[JeanetteLv2]

No problem Steffie on the names and stuff. I totally understand. Guess I just felt these people deserved a little more mention is all.

On Gwen Araujo... well the charge is premeditated murder and the jury deadlocked or split on that in the first trial. Defense put up basically a trans panic defense. So it's now being retried. But nothing seems to have change on the prosecution or defense side. So *sigh* I'm starting to wonder if they'll ever convict these boys.

Yeah I saw "A Soldier's Story" on DVD. Was very good I thought. But yeah it would have been nice if they let her play herself in it. Heck it'd be nice to just finally see a transwoman or transman as something more than an extra on a movie or show.

 

[Etoile]

You can't really generalize any of these things.

Totally awesome post, Steffie. So very well-said.

Yes, but I wonder if its the dual nature of transgender folk that is attractive to non-transgender persons?

If so, is the attraction lost if transition is completed?

I don't fetishize transgender people, but I do find many of them attractive on an individual basis. I have friends - particularly FTM friends - who I find quite attractive. It's not because of a dual nature, but it is in part an attraction to the complexity that comes with the life experience of being trans. None of my post-SRS friends are especially sexually attractive to me (just not my type) so I can't speak to the second question, but I would imagine my reasoning would be the same.

 

[Etoile]

Certainly. I am a guy (straight) but I love transexuals. I have a few shemale friends. Almost all shemales felt that there was a mistake made when they were born - somehow a girl's soul is being put into a male body. At least in the Far East, they feel that way and that's why most of them wish to have the final operation of sex change.

I really enjoy shemales and we do each other. I like the ones with large dick.

Shemaluver

madmanmike is probably going to snipe at me for saying this, but Shemaluver I just have to ask: do your friends refer to themselves as shemales? If not, what term do they use to refer to themselves? The only MTFs I know of who use that term are the ones who advertise in the back of the Village Voice - which is to say, prostitutes. All the other MTFs I have met are either transwomen, transgendered, transsexual, or just simply women.

The relatively high number of transwomen in Thailand is partly due to the country's openness to difference. In the United States, biological males who feel they are female inside are often taught that this is wrong and shouldn't be acted upon. In Thailand, by contrast, the culture accepts that the individual is right and allows them to make a change without discriminating against them. The medical establishment in Thailand is also quite well-respected, and some American transpeople go there to get around their insurance company's requirements for paying for SRS. India is a bit different in that transwomen are often put into the same category as eunuchs.

 

[onceburned]

Totally awesome post, Steffie. So very well-said.

Yep, we are lucky that she is willing to spend time with us and also patient enough to answer our questions.

 

[snowy ciara]

Yes, but I wonder if its the dual nature of transgender folk that is attractive to non-transgender persons?

If so, is the attraction lost if transition is completed?

As the wonderfully wise stefani said, you can't really generalize these things. I'm gonna try to be as eloquent, but I'm not that good. This is actually a more personal reply to someone, but it dovetails nicely with the convo, so here it goes.

I like people. Maybe it's a generational thing, cause I've noticed that a lot of people my age aren't as hung about gender lines as they used to be. (Again, a generalization, and I acknowlege that, but that's how it appears to me.) I don't think my feelings would change towards a Transperson before after or during a change. I lust for women, I lust for men, I lust for transpersons of various varieties. More importantly, I love them. I don't have tons of friends, but I do have a few very close ones of all three genders and I can't imagine ever not loving someone just due to srs.-

However, I'm not a very flexible person sometimes, and change scares me. I know that you (you being a generic transperson here) were born with the wrong gender and that you are taking steps to correct that and I want you to be happy, so I want the surgery. I want you to do what you need to do to be happy and fulfilled in your life. But for some reason, I'm also afraid that on some level, I'll lose the friend I have. In my more adult moments, I want you to be happy even if it means you leave me behind. But on a more emotional level, I don't want anything to change! Technically speaking, you don't become a new person, or a new personality when you have srs and fully transition. I know that the person you are inside, the essence of you, the individual I adore will be the same person, more or less, but I'm still afraid that you'll get that new ferrari of a body and zoom off away from me and leave me pedaling my moped in the slow lane.

But most of all, be happy. I'll still love you and care for you, even if it means I lose you in the end. As long as you're happy, I'll be okay.

 

[Stefani]

No problem Steffie on the names and stuff. I totally understand. Guess I just felt these people deserved a little more mention is all.

On Gwen Araujo... well the charge is premeditated murder and the jury deadlocked or split on that in the first trial. Defense put up basically a trans panic defense. So it's now being retried. But nothing seems to have change on the prosecution or defense side. So *sigh* I'm starting to wonder if they'll ever convict these boys.

Yeah I saw "A Soldier's Story" on DVD. Was very good I thought. But yeah it would have been nice if they let her play herself in it. Heck it'd be nice to just finally see a transwoman or transman as something more than an extra on a movie or show.

Onceburned, Jen,

Thanx for the nice, helpful replies. The Gwen Araujo story is just as tragedic as the Brandon Teena story. When the Araujo murder occured the gender community passed around an editorial published in the midwest that stated Gwen "deserved" to die for engaging in an act of "gay sex" with an unknowing boy. The gender community was so outraged we wrote a pile of letters to the paper's editor, myself included.

I'm willing to bet some independent filmmaker will grab hold of the Araujo story. Maybe it will wake some people up as to how segments of our country finds it acceptable to take someone's life.

Not to get off on a tangent, but it's a sad commentary on our society that there are organizations like PETA that make more of a stink about killing animals than anyone makes about killing transsexuals.

Yep, we are lucky that she is willing to spend time with us and also patient enough to answer our questions.

Onceb, snowy,

Oh stop, you two are going to make me blush. Hey look, I put my panties on one leg at a time, just like the rest of ya'll. ;-)

The relatively high number of transwomen in Thailand is partly due to the country's openness to difference. In the United States, biological males who feel they are female inside are often taught that this is wrong and shouldn't be acted upon. In Thailand, by contrast, the culture accepts that the individual is right and allows them to make a change without discriminating against them. The medical establishment in Thailand is also quite well-respected, and some American transpeople go there to get around their insurance company's requirements for paying for SRS. India is a bit different in that transwomen are often put into the same category as eunuchs.

Good info Etoile. Thank you. A lot of TS's from around the globe go to Thailand for their inexpensive SRS surgury. In 2000 when I was considering the surgury myself and went for a consultation with Toby Meltzer it was $25,000. In Puhket, Thailand, you can get it for $5,000. Two of our local post-op's (who are actually married to each other) went there, and say they are pleased.

Steffie

 

[Etoile]

I'm willing to bet some independent filmmaker will grab hold of the Araujo story. Maybe it will wake some people up as to how segments of our country finds it acceptable to take someone's life.

It occurs to me that Gwen deserves to have a movie made about her. Brandon did, and Matthew did, and Barry did. Gwen does too. If it takes a major motion picture to call attention to her, then so be it.

I liked "Boys Don't Cry" a lot more than the book "All She Wanted" - it was painful to watch, but it was so much more respectful of Brandon. The documentary "The Brandon Teena Story" was good too. I'd like to see "The Laramie Project" sometime.

 

[Her sissy slave]

Stefani

you look woman enough for me. i wouldn't mind taking you to dinner myself.

a sissy

 

[Amy Sweet]

In answer to the original question, I would certainly be willing to have sex with a transgendered person whom I was attracted to. If they had been completly changed over it would pretty much be a mute point. (they would be either male or female, so what they 'used to be' wouldn't either bother or excite me)- A person who was in transition, or who considered themselves both genders would be, for me, more intreging.

On to the question of relationship, that is a bit harder to answer, because I've never really known anyone who was TG and relationships are complicated things. I wouldn't rule it out- but it's a lot harder to guess at how I'd feel about a relationship than a sexual encounter. I have to admit, that I think it would be as difficult as coming out of the closet is for most homosexuals, at least in the begining and it is something that would take a lot of thought and ballance about what the two people wanted and the level of openness each feels comfortable with. It wouldn't probably be worth it to go through all of the drama of being extremely open about it if you didn't have very deep feelings for the person already. It may seem kind of cold to say, but obviosly something like that is going to have a very big effect on your relationships and your life. Just as a transgendered person must weigh these things before they make their decision, so would a nonTG person need to weigh these things out, in light of what sacrifices they and their partner where willing to make. (ie- can they accept it if you don't tell your parents[that you are a couple; that she used to be a he, ect], can you accept it if your father never speaks to you again)

A relationship is a much bigger decision than a sexual encounter, and a much bigger risk (personally and socially). How do you know if you are willing to make that risk before you actually do?

 

[sweetsyn]

Hi,
Kinda new to posting here but this thread really hits home. Stefani, let me just say your courage and commitment is both commendable and inspiring. I too am a m2f transsexual but identify more as a woman than anything, it tooks years of torment for me to come to terms with that. Unfortunately, about a year ago I had to take a couple of steps back in my transition and go back to 'living the lie' for a while, but I'm wiser for it and will be better prepared next time. I do not like being thought of as neither male or female, or as both, or as the best of both worlds and get turned off rather quickly when a romantic interest refers to me as such. Hopefully the man I am currently chatting with and preparing to meet is true to his word and has no interest in my 'curse', but I have to wonder. What many don't understand, is this is NOT a choice, it is something that has torments and keeps one from living a full life until it's resolved. Best wishes to you and in my eyes you are ALL woman.
Gabi

 

[onceburned]

Hi,
Unfortunately, about a year ago I had to take a couple of steps back in my transition and go back to 'living the lie' for a while, but I'm wiser for it and will be better prepared next time.

OMG. That sounds like it would be a very hard thing to do. Hard psychologically and hard emotionally. And socially, too.

Was it a decision that was painful to make and to live with? It sounds like it would be.

Chris

 

[Wolfman1982]

sweetsyn: i have a M2F friend and i call her a girl and not something else since i see her as a girl and i love her (hard to explain but i do love her)

and i see every girl as a girl as long they feel like a girl so if a lady feels like a man then i will call them a man

i am just so open minded that i respect the individual and not anything else.

and to stafani , you are one pretty lady if i ever meet you , you would get a big kiss on the lips since i think you are a very pretty lady

i am 23 and feels alot older and that is because i have experienced things in my life that makes me more experienced

so for me is a girl a girl/lady/dame what ever even though they are still transexuals untill they get their operation.