AI or LLM

[ElectricBlue]

If the ai detector just auto-added a tag or something similar but didn't block posting .. For the people who want to never see anything with that tag, make it a setting, except if its a post by an author you already follow then you still see it. Everyone wins?

No, because the site would be deluged by slop, which is what we suspect happened a couple of years ago, when story approvals slowed down, multiple threads started about AI related rejections, and there was a lot of drama about whatever systems the site put in place to detect and reject AI junk.

Around the same time, the site clamped down on AI visual content, saying, don't post that here.

If one of your stories gets false flagged its not the end of the world and you can still appeal whoever you do already.

May I suggest you read any one of the dozens of threads about AI here in the AH. Unfortunately, this is another "repeat-a-thread", where someone comes along asking, "What about this AI stuff, then?" The answer remains the same: the site doesn't want it, and most writers here in the AH don't want it either. If you use AI to "write", you shouldn't really call yourself a writer.

 

[randomletters42]

Five years ago, July '21 :

Yea and that idea and post is as far as I got. I probably got no response and never checked forums again. I certainty never read the site owners manifesto and shit. Wow you caught me in a lie? No you did not. Read the context of what I meant dude.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If the ai detector just auto-added a tag or something similar but didn't block posting .. For the people who want to never see anything with that tag, make it a setting, except if its a post by an author you already follow then you still see it. Everyone wins? If one of your stories gets false flagged its not the end of the world and you can still appeal however you do already.

There are a bunch of reasons why this isn't an "everyone wins" scenario:

• Accepting LLM-written stories would swamp Lit's moderation process, which is already pretty creaky. (And yes, a moderation process is necessary, if you don't want the site to turn into a wasteland of Grow Your Penis Big spam or see the site owners hauled off to jail for hosting obscene content.)
• Potential copyright complications: LLMs can essentially reproduce copyrighted works from their training data and the legal questions around copyright for LLM-generated work are still being thrashed out.
• Many authors here, people who actually wrote our own stories, are not particularly happy that these companies ripped off our work (and that of others) to train their models and would be very unimpressed to see Lit condoning that behaviour.
• A lot of people view AI-generated content on a website as a red flag, because it's so popular with scammers and get-rich-quick types. Even if there's an option not to view AI-generated stories, I suspect a lot of readers would go looking for another site.

In any case, there are plenty of other places where people can read LLM-generated "content" if that's their jam. It's okay to have a place that caters to people who prefer to read human-written content.

 

[randomletters42]

There are a bunch of reasons why this isn't an "everyone wins" scenario:

• Accepting LLM-written stories would swamp Lit's moderation process, which is already pretty creaky. (And yes, a moderation process is necessary, if you don't want the site to turn into a wasteland of Grow Your Penis Big spam or see the site owners hauled off to jail for hosting obscene content.)
• Potential copyright complications: LLMs can essentially reproduce copyrighted works from their training data and the legal questions around copyright for LLM-generated work are still being thrashed out.
• Many authors here, people who actually wrote our own stories, are not particularly happy that these companies ripped off our work (and that of others) to train their models and would be very unimpressed to see Lit condoning that behaviour.
• A lot of people view AI-generated content on a website as a red flag, because it's so popular with scammers and get-rich-quick types. Even if there's an option not to view AI-generated stories, I suspect a lot of readers would go looking for another site.

In any case, there are plenty of other places where people can read LLM-generated "content" if that's their jam. It's okay to have a place that caters to people who prefer to read human-written content.

I wouldn't mind at all if there was more than one person reading every single submitted story, and then having submissions also failed for being "human slop". Honestly the metric should be "is it slop" or "is not slop". A better system though is to just allow everything and quickly have it fall down the list when it doesnt get any good ratings (or bad ratings) after some number of impressions. Think: the steam store algorithm. Doesn't matter if its ai or not, if people who are shown it dont get past a few pages over and over, show it to less people. But this site has no trending list sort of thing at all. Its very oldschool with a purely rating or a purely views sorted list.

And sure I know this doesn't matter, no one is going to read this and implement anything. But I'm a technical sort of person and like to think about these things. Blaming the existence of llms for site specific issues when no one even tried to solve them or is working on it at all is disingenuous.

 

[JFoxxo]

I wouldn't mind at all if there was more than one person reading every single submitted story, and then having submissions also failed for being "human slop". Honestly the metric should be "is it slop" or "is not slop". A better system though is to just allow everything and quickly have it fall down the list when it doesnt get any good ratings (or bad ratings) after some number of impressions. Think: the steam store algorithm. Doesn't matter if its ai or not, if people who are shown it dont get past a few pages over and over, show it to less people. But this site has no trending list sort of thing at all. Its very oldschool with a purely rating or a purely views sorted list.

This. Considering stories here aren't even monetized, it's a waste of time submitting when there are many other options for new writers. It already takes days to get a story looked at, so it's incredibly frustrating when they come back flagged. I'm not going to dive back into a work just because your AI bot flags it as AI. I'll just take my work somewhere else.

Honestly, best to just let the readers decide, rather than put your potential new writers (who are providing you with free content) through the meat-grinder over and over.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I wouldn't mind at all if there was more than one person reading every single submitted story, and then having submissions also failed for being "human slop". Honestly the metric should be "is it slop" or "is not slop".

Everybody needs to start somewhere. I'd love it if everybody posting on Lit understood things like how to spell "grammar" and the difference between "it's" and "its". But it's a good thing that people who are just getting started with writing (or with writing in English) have somewhere they can make their start and get feedback.

Some of them will learn from the process and graduate to writing better stories. Others might never get good, and you know what, that's still okay, just like it's okay to kick a ball around with your mates even if nobody ever becomes a pro level footballer.

TLDR if you want consistently professional grade stories, you should be willing to pay for them. Patreon is right over there.

But that's a world apart from spamming the site with extruded LLM product, even if the computer has better spelling and grammar.

As for multiple moderators, that would definitely be a good thing for Lit, but for whatever reason it doesn't seem to be on the table. I don't think anybody in this conversation knows why, but my guess is that there's so much legacy code in the process that it's not feasible to teach a new person the process - or perhaps that Laurel and Manu just prefer to keep this as their site, even if that means limiting its capabilities, rather than becoming managers.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

This. Considering stories here aren't even monetized, it's a waste of time submitting when there are many other options for new writers. It already takes days to get a story looked at, so it's incredibly frustrating when they come back flagged. I'm not going to dive back into a work just because your AI bot flags it as AI. I'll just take my work somewhere else.

See that over there --> ??

That's your chance to create a site that competes with Literotica. Web sites are not that hard to make. You'd have to find a service that will handle adult content, but they do exist.

Have fun. Accept AI-created automated plagiarism. Go ahead.

 

[JFoxxo]

Everybody needs to start somewhere. I'd love it if everybody posting on Lit understood things like how to spell "grammar" and the difference between "it's" and "its". But it's a good thing that people who are just getting started with writing (or with writing in English) have somewhere they can make their start and get feedback.

I completely agree with this sentiment. Websites like this are extremely useful for new writers. I just worry that a lot of new writers are getting their works flagged as AI when no AI was used. It's already pretty well-known that AI detection tools are extremely flawed. I strongly believe that this site is putting itself at a huge disadvantage in that regard.

What will a new writer do when they have to wait multiple days to have their work seen, only to have it sent-back as being AI? They'll take their work elsewhere. There are many platforms out there for new writers to start and get feedback.

This site is too stringent for writers who are, in essence, providing free content.

 

[JFoxxo]

See that over there --> ??

That's your chance to create a site that competes with Literotica. Web sites are not that hard to make. You'd have to find a service that will handle adult content, but they do exist.

Have fun. Accept AI-created automated plagiarism. Go ahead.

I'm not condoning the use of AI generated content. I'm simply explaining the thought-process of a lot of new writers when engaging with this website.

There's a good chance they'll be posting their content on multiple platforms that already compete with Literotica. By the time Literotica even takes a look at their work, they'll be getting feedback and engagement on those other platforms. When they finally receive the AI flag days later from this platform, they're probably just going to peace out and not bother.

So, Literotica misses out on a ton of potentially very talented new writers.

I wouldn't have an issue with this process if Literotica was vetting paid content.

 

[randomletters42]

See that over there --> ??

That's your chance to create a site that competes with Literotica. Web sites are not that hard to make. You'd have to find a service that will handle adult content, but they do exist.

Have fun. Accept AI-created automated plagiarism. Go ahead.

I would volunteer to help with site development, as someone with a background in programing. I can think of several specific issues id absolutely love to improve. I really doubt they'd have a hard time finding volunteers to assist them. Make the site a github page and shit. Not for profit things thrive on collaboration not doing everything yourself, at some point it stops scaling well or the original managers get too busy with other things and then what? (not that this is actually not for profit, its just probably not terribly profitable, and maintained mostly out of love-of-the-game).

Edit: To clarify I mean, help with "this site" making a whole new site is crazy obviously. You know, like something constructive, unlike your comment.

 

[EmilyMiller]

If the ai detector just auto-added a tag or something similar but didn't block posting .. For the people who want to never see anything with that tag, make it a setting, except if its a post by an author you already follow then you still see it. Everyone wins? If one of your stories gets false flagged its not the end of the world and you can still appeal however you do already.

I give up

 

[EmilyMiller]

I wouldn't mind at all if there was more than one person reading every single submitted story, and then having submissions also failed for being "human slop". Honestly the metric should be "is it slop" or "is not slop". A better system though is to just allow everything and quickly have it fall down the list when it doesnt get any good ratings (or bad ratings) after some number of impressions. Think: the steam store algorithm. Doesn't matter if its ai or not, if people who are shown it dont get past a few pages over and over, show it to less people. But this site has no trending list sort of thing at all. Its very oldschool with a purely rating or a purely views sorted list.

And sure I know this doesn't matter, no one is going to read this and implement anything. But I'm a technical sort of person and like to think about these things. Blaming the existence of llms for site specific issues when no one even tried to solve them or is working on it at all is disingenuous.

Pissing in the wind, or - I’m beginning to think more likely - trolling. Your opinions of what the site should do are irrelevant. Go start your own site.

 

[randomletters42]

Pissing in the wind, or - I’m beginning to think more likely - trolling. Your opinions of what the site should do are irrelevant. Go start your low site.

From your very first reply you expressed this opinion "shut up no one cares". Can't people talk about things and ideas around here? I didn't realize I couldn't have opinions about the site! You as a longtime community member and productive writer, I honestly expected better. But again, that opinion is irrelevant, someone shout more bold text at me .. smh.

Edit: Thanks to the couple people who were polite in this conversation. Unwatching.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'll just take my work somewhere else.

Bye

 

[EmilyMiller]

From your very first reply you expressed this opinion "shut up no one cares". Can't people talk about things and ideas around here? I didn't realize I couldn't have opinions about the site! You as a longtime community member and productive writer, I honestly expected better. But again, that opinion is irrelevant, someone shout more bold text at me .. smh.

You are totally misreading the room. You are either really bad at people or trolling.

 

[randomletters42]

You are totally misreading the room. You are either really bad at people or trolling.

Really lol. As you just tell someone else "bye" as if thats not a hostile comment. You could try to be nicer and it would be really easy.

 

[JFoxxo]

Bye

That's a horrible attitude, and it'll cost this community a ton of new, talented writers who get flagged as possibly using AI by another, very flawed AI.

It's also a bit ironic that you're judging writers flagged for possible AI use because that's what another flawed AI told you.

 

[EmilyMiller]

That's a horrible attitude, and it'll cost this community a ton of new, talented writers who get flagged as possibly using AI by another, very flawed AI.

It's also a bit ironic that you're judging writers flagged for possible AI use because that's what another flawed AI told you.

I spend quite a bit of my time trying (often failing) to intercede with the site on behalf of writers I know have not used AI.

We are all fungible commodities here, me and you. Saying you’re going to leave is totally irrelevant. Ten writers will take your place.

Go leave. There is no other viable place to publish. I’ve looked trust me.

The site is not at fault. It’s a problem created by people with the same mid set as the OP.

 

[JFoxxo]

I spend quite a bit of my time trying (often failing) to intercede with the site on behalf of writers I know have not used AI.

We are all fungible commodities here, me and you. Saying you’re going to leave is totally irrelevant. Ten writers will take your place.

Go leave. There is no other viable place to publish. I’ve looked trust me.

The site is not at fault. It’s a problem created by people with the same mid set as the OP.

Good on you for interceding. I can definitely respect that. However, most new writers simply don't have the time or energy to waste on trying to convince an AI or mod that they themselves didn't use AI. That time and energy is better spent elsewhere.

I'm aware my claim to leave is irrelevant, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point is that nearly every new writer here will be in the same situation, and face the same decision. That's not insignificant.

At the very least, the owners of the site could consider running every submission through their AI checker automatically, and rejecting them automatically if AI use is suspected. At least that way, writers don't have to wait 4+ days.

As for other viable places to publish... I've already found five. Of course, the content I write is niche fetish content, so there's that. You may not be looking hard enough.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

As for other viable places to publish... I've already found five. Of course, the content I write is niche fetish content, so there's that. You may not be looking hard enough.

One suspects you might mean something different by the word "viable" than Emily, too.

 

[EmilyMiller]

One suspects you might mean something different by the word "viable" than Emily, too.

Yup

 

[JFoxxo]

One suspects you might mean something different by the word "viable" than Emily, too.

I took viable to mean a place for new writers to publish where they can get engagement and feedback. Based on that definition (and of course the fact I write niche fetish content), I found five.

Did I misinterpret her use of the term viable?

 

[JFoxxo]

Yup

Ah, so you're not referring to places where new writers can get feedback and engagement. Thanks for the clarification.

What did you mean, if I may ask?

 

[EmilyMiller]

At the very least, the owners of the site could consider running every submission through their AI checker automatically, and rejecting them automatically if AI use is suspected. At least that way, writers don't have to wait 4+ days.

What happens - as far as anyone can guess as transparency is not a virtue here - there is an automated AI check. When you fail this, your story goes onto a queue for the review of the single (as far as we know, and born out by convos I had a year plus ago) story reviewer.

Why does it then take so long? Because (made up figures) for every one human written story that gets flagged erroneously for AI, ten are actual AI slop. The reason everyone is so dismissive of the OP’s views is that they are part of the problem.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I took viable to mean a place for new writers to publish where they can get engagement and feedback. Based on that definition (and of course the fact I write niche fetish content), I found five.

Engagement is low here - if you mean comments and votes. But views elsewhere are a joke. You might as well set up your own blog.

Did I misinterpret her use of the term viable?

Nope - viable as in having people actually read your story.