An important, undiscussed point about depression

[Pure]

Hi Boota,

When I saw the symptoms of depression listed in that pamphlet, I recognized a lot of that in myself. But I recognized a lot of it in everyone. Going by what they listed, I don't think I know anyone who isn't depressed. In fact, I believe that MOST people's lives are just barely good enough to prevent suicide.


Since I admire your writing and would like you to stick around for a bit and write some more, I'm dropping you a line.

I think you're right in philosophical and factual terms, though I'd qualify the statement a bit: Most people's lives, *if faced up to* would barely keep them from going over the edge. This is the 'quiet desperation' often noted.

One thing I like about your postings is that you do have certain tasks you're working on. That orientation is excellent and certainly 'beats' the 'where is my happiness?' orientation. In truth no happiness is actually, in universal terms, "deserved." The tasks we set ourselves keep us going.

There is no such thing as the bare minimum of happiness or freedom from pain to which each human is entitled because of the 'goodness' or 'providence' of the universe. Infant mortality stats demonstrate that pretty well.

Here's which dr m's comment comes in. IF you--a drug company or psychiatrist--set the criteria cleverly, you can get a diagnosis of just about anything, pretty easily. To get 'anxiety disorder', just ask, "Do you worry...?" "Do you even think something bad is going to happen?" The 'test', as the dr. says is *designed* to generate 'false positives', to show as many as possible in need of something, e.g, an antidepressant pill costing 1-3 dollars a day for the rest of a life.

But there is a general point: What is the criterion you are employing in deciding the 'worthwhileness' or 'shittiness' or plain 'boringness beyond tolerability' of things? In truth you have no objective basis for assigning any set point-- i.e., below which suicide is indicated.

Further, not to 'shrink' you excessively but usually there is a sense of justice or entitlement hanging around somewhere in depressed or suicidal musings: This should not be happening to me. It's not fair., etc. ** But again, as argued above, there is no objective basis for saying "I'm getting less return or compensation for X..., than is fair." An acquaintance of mine was killed in a traffic accident a few months before what was to be the awarding of a PhD and while his wife was pregnant with their first child. One's Platinum Album/CD may come the day after one's untimely demise. Yes we said my friend's end was 'tragic' and even 'undeserved' but, really, who's to say?

Here's where the chemistry may come in. Since there's no objective basis for saying "There's too much pain.. " or ".. too much boredom" or "less return on efforts than is just", it's often a conclusion rooted in mood, which in turn is chemically based. On a 'bad day' the indications will appear add up to "life is not worth living", but the same indications will look different in an hour or a day. Has the universe changed? No. Merely the chemicals tingeing its look. Ergo. They may be worth tinkering with.

Best,
J.

**These ideas often underlie or fuel the anger that many depressed persons have, just under the surface.

 

[shereads]

Fair enough.

If you chop off your ear, though, be sure to paint it. I don't think writing about it will have the same effect. And do please join us for the Christmas party at the Velvet Vulva if you're around tomorrow, no matter what mood you're in.



Merry-ish Christmas, fellow depressives and not-quites.

God and/or Non-Denominational Creator Being bless us, every one.

 

[Boota]

Shereads, I don't think I will be pulling a Van Gogh. I'm a completely different type of weirdo.


Pure, I see all of your points. I take full responsibility for myself. Life isn't "fair" for anyone. I'm not sitting around waiting for things to get better, because nothing gets better on it's own. I make things happen, because I have to. The tasks I'm working on are pretty much everything to me, so I have refused to let them die. And they, in turn, are keeping me going.

In November of 2001 I ran into a situation that showed me exactly where I stand. I was having problems with an irregular heartbeat and I didn't know why. I went out walking one night, briskly, trying to get my heart rate up and see if it leveled out like it always had. Well, something went wrong. My heart started racing and pounding in my chest, so hard that I could see it moving my coat. My left arm went numb and I started to get lightheaded, like I was going to pass out. It sounded like every symptom of a heart attack I had ever heard of. I'm in really good physical shape , but I knew that didn't mean that I couldn't have a heart attack, so I thought that was what was happening. I also saw an opportunity. I took off at a dead sprint. My intention was to make my heart explode and to die looking like it was completely natural. For insurance purposes.

As I was running I was trying to think of reasons not to do it, to try to get help instead. I thought of my family and friends. Everybody dies. They'll deal with it. I thought of my band and my music. Not a big enough deal to care about anymore. I had run three more blocks away from home before I stopped. Then I realized, "My book! I want to finish my book!" I stopped running, but I thought it might have been too late. I had about six blocks to walk back and I didn't know if I was going to make it. I almost passed out in my front yard when I got back. I called my dad to take me to the hospital. It turned out to be a caffeine overdose. I never have caffeine, but that day I had a lot of it, since it was the only thing available for drinking where I was at. (Mountain Dew Code Red sends a lot of people to the emergency room, I learned.)

But that let me know why I'm here. It's not for love, or fame, or money. It's certainly not to be happy. I think that is probably too far out of bounds. I'm still here because I have to create. I have to write and play music. Draw and paint. Just create. That's it. That's the whole reason why I'm still here. Life being fair definitely has nothing to with it.

I've wondered about whether my brain chemistry is off, but I would honestly rather be dead than to balance it out and risk losing my ability to create.

Well, I'm off to the studio. My Xmas tradition. I don't like Xmas, but I will wish you all a good holiday.

 

[Pure]

Well said, my friend, your view seems reasonably balanced.

Happy Holidays,

J.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Strange coincidence, since we've been posting our thoughts and experiences with depression - I just heard a discussion about it on NPR. A psychiatrist was urging patients and their physicians to consider possible PHYSICAL causes:

3) heart disease (I had read about this before, and in fact I had a mild heart murmur diagnosed at about the same time I was diagnosed with depression. This didn't alter the need for an antidepressant, but along with a genetic predispotion to depression and/or alcoholism, it might have aggravated my condition. The cardiologist knew I had just started treatment for depression, and told me that there is a statistical connection between even mild heart problems and chronic depression - the link might be the consistent, although mild, shortage of oxygen and lack of energy. Undiagnosed, and without any serious heart symptoms like chest pains or frequent shortness of breath, the patient is simply aware that their energy level isn't the same as other people's, and they blame "laziness" or a lack of motivation. This perception of themselves aggravates the mood disorder. It might also explain why - in some depressives - exercise helps alleviate the condition.

.

I find this extrememly interesting. My family has a history of heart disease AND mood and anxiety disorders.

I myself have a heart murmur that is generally considered 'innocent' -even though I haven't had a comprehensive work-up or anything. I do see (now that it is pointed out) how the symptems are linked.

Although emotions actually come from the brain and not the heart, still makes me wonder about the connection. Maybe the unscientific explanation of the heart being the center of emotion is more accurate than we know.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I think that a good rule of thumb for an individual is- does your ability to function in the world suffer? and if it does, *then* you start looking to see what the cause is. Rather than saying, "do I have this disease? or this one?"

My point is- if you have a hard time with math, but it doesnt' create a problem in your life, then you don't have a problem. If you are afraid of snakes, but you don't live or work around snakes then you don't have a problem.

If you do have a problem, don't be afraid to ask for help. And ignore anyone who says 'it's all in your head' or 'it's a scam between the drug company and the doctors' or anything else to discourage you from doing what you need to do for you.

But if your life works out fairly well for you, if you don't have a problem- don't go looking for one. And equally you can ignore anyone who says you must have a or b and need c or d.

Nobody can tell you what's best for you, becuase nobody but you is you, can be you, or ever will be you. The best that can be done for another person is to listen and offer hope and support. If we had more of that, the world would be a much nicer place.

I worked in the pharmaceutical industry, and I can tell you that the big Pharma outfits spend more on marketing than they do on R&D (this is the truth). Those "Are you depressed?" tests and "Do you Suffer From AADD?" are put out by the marketing departments, and while they may have their roots in sound medicine, their purpose is to sell pills. Probably 90% of the population would test positive for whatever they're testing for. The Doctor gets his diagnosis and is able to treat it, and the patient gets some pills, so everyone's happy.

The pharma houses also spend an awful lot of money on educating doctors at special tax-deductable "seminars" in Hawaii and Cozumel and the like, where the symptoms of depression or AADD or whatever disease they're marketing drugs for this month are drummed into the doctors' heads, along with the company's new Drug of Choice.

The next time a fad diagnosis comes along--some vague disorder that they suddenly discover is endemic in the population--I'll bet you 10 to 1 that some company has just come out with a marketable treatment for it. That's the way it works.


---dr.M.

 

[sweetnpetite]

That was an amazing post!

I think it would make a great short story (for some reason it made me think of 'The Secret Life of Walter Mitty')

If you write it as such and post it on 'non-erotic' PM me a link. If you publish it somewhere, that would be cool too.

IMO, it's inspirational (in an off the wall way), humorous, dramatic, touching, and thought provoking. I'd base a fiction story on it rather than go non-fic, but it could go either way. Hope you'll consider it

In November of 2001 I ran into a situation that showed me exactly where I stand. I was having problems with an irregular heartbeat and I didn't know why. I went out walking one night, briskly, trying to get my heart rate up and see if it leveled out like it always had. Well, something went wrong. My heart started racing and pounding in my chest, so hard that I could see it moving my coat. My left arm went numb and I started to get lightheaded, like I was going to pass out. It sounded like every symptom of a heart attack I had ever heard of. I'm in really good physical shape , but I knew that didn't mean that I couldn't have a heart attack, so I thought that was what was happening. I also saw an opportunity. I took off at a dead sprint. My intention was to make my heart explode and to die looking like it was completely natural. For insurance purposes.

As I was running I was trying to think of reasons not to do it, to try to get help instead. I thought of my family and friends. Everybody dies. They'll deal with it. I thought of my band and my music. Not a big enough deal to care about anymore. I had run three more blocks away from home before I stopped. Then I realized, "My book! I want to finish my book!" I stopped running, but I thought it might have been too late. I had about six blocks to walk back and I didn't know if I was going to make it. I almost passed out in my front yard when I got back. I called my dad to take me to the hospital. It turned out to be a caffeine overdose. I never have caffeine, but that day I had a lot of it, since it was the only thing available for drinking where I was at. (Mountain Dew Code Red sends a lot of people to the emergency room, I learned.)

But that let me know why I'm here. It's not for love, or fame, or money. It's certainly not to be happy. I think that is probably too far out of bounds. I'm still here because I have to create. I have to write and play music. Draw and paint. Just create. That's it. That's the whole reason why I'm still here. Life being fair definitely has nothing to with it.

I've wondered about whether my brain chemistry is off, but I would honestly rather be dead than to balance it out and risk losing my ability to create.

Well, I'm off to the studio. My Xmas tradition. I don't like Xmas, but I will wish you all a good holiday.

 

[Boota]

Sweetnpetite, thank you. I will consider writing that as a piece of fiction. As usual, there will be a lot of truth in my fiction. LOL. I'll see what I can do and I'll let you know.

 

[Pure]

I'm sure there's a zillion of them, but here's a website run by a person who's dealt with depression. It has reading lists and lots of good ideas, not doctrinaire about any one approach. Not self indulgent or self pitying--no "victim" stuff.

http://www.lucidinterval.org/

 

[Emerald_Dragon]

Post partum depression going on 7 years!!

Hi I am new to the thread buisness but I thought I would reply to Boota. I actually wrote a how to survive depression as my first story on literotica. I am acctually more creative now that I am on meds. Granted there are other things that go with it like more excercise, better diet and more sunlight that help too. Don't be afraid to try meds to keep you balanced mood wise, I know that from personal experience that if you stop taking them things go back to the way they were. I have so much more energy to be creative now that I am not so out in left field and having melt downs on a regular basis. Don't dismiss them and if you get a good doctor that listens to you and what you want and need from medication and isn't afraid to keep trying until you get the one you need things can really work out.

Don't be afraid either to try some non traditional things too like massage, accupuncture, light therapy (seasonal depression) and stuff. Meds may not be for you but don't be afraid to try things that may help.

My meds make me tired, so I have the mountain dew habit from hell, but it is a small price to pay for being able to trust myself with my kids.

Do what is best for you. There has got to be something out there that would help. ya just gotta find it.

Stay healthy and writing.
Emerald_Dragon

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Y'know... I am almost certain I haven't any way of relating to depression. I've seen it in others, and I've surely been sad sometimes--but it defies all logic for me. Makes no sense.

I mean, I've got the Psych degree--I /know/ what it is. I know as much of it as the next well read person, but on a practical level it just seems to be this strange inability.

I kinda have wished I had the ability to relate, but I'm not a very emotional person in general... much less an empathetic one. It's like someone describing a habitual inability to sit down.... makes no sense.

 

[English Lady]

Y'know... I am almost certain I haven't any way of relating to depression. I've seen it in others, and I've surely been sad sometimes--but it defies all logic for me. Makes no sense.

I mean, I've got the Psych degree--I /know/ what it is. I know as much of it as the next well read person, but on a practical level it just seems to be this strange inability.

I kinda have wished I had the ability to relate, but I'm not a very emotional person in general... much less an empathetic one. It's like someone describing a habitual inability to sit down.... makes no sense.

Joe, I think it is nigh on impossible ,even for the most empathetic person, to understand depression if they've not felt it.

I had 2 good friends in college who were suffering terribly from the effects of depression and although I really, really felt for them, I could never really understand it, it just didn't compute with me at all.

Same when I met my husband, I felt deeply for him, but I didn't really know why he couldn't change and you know, cheer up.

Then, after having Beth and coinciding with the break up of my parents I actually experienced depression -it was a very mild dose I'm sure,but for a good period of time everything got me down,I couldn't find the brightside of life any more, or at least I only saw the odd glimpse of it.

My husband recognised it and got me to go to the GP, who recognised it too and perscribed me something. I felt much better just from having it recognised and within a month I was walking on the brightside of life again.

Now,I'm not claiming to have had a sserious depression, I'm not climing that because of this short period I know exactly what a person who's sruggled years with depression goes through but I have had a glimpse and it makes it easier for me to understand depression as an illness and how you simply can't just snap out of it.

I don't think you should be down on yourself for not really getting it, almost be thankful you don't because it means you've not been depressed at all. wanting to understand and caring even if you don't "get it" will be more of a help than you'd know