An open challenge to Amicus

[Stella_Omega]

Well it was only in response to Amicus challenging BlackShanglan, etc., that's all.

Does he? I've never noticed...


(Of course, he hasn't answered your challenge yet.)

 

[amicus]

Stella: "...There are plenty of other people here who are capable of making a valid conservative point..."

Other than Roxanne, would you name of a few of those other people with a conservative view?

I would be most appreciative...

Amicus...

 

[Handprints]

I'm not Amicus but I thought I'd give the key questions a try, if no-one minds

Amicus, have you ever lived in a c...my, if that's where the discussion is headed.

 

[amicus]

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=23900025&postcount=6


Amicus, have you ever lived in a country where the Government owns no land?

A simple yes or no will suffice.


Amicus, have you ever lived in a country where there is no safety net?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

~~~


I did not answer your questions of take your challenge because they are not valid questions. You know full well there are no such countries that practice pure laissez-faire, thus the answers are foregone conclusions and your motive for posing them is intellectually obscene and self-serving, you just want to try to make a sly point.

Handprints...welcome to this thread also, hope you have the stomach to hang around and participate.

This is a 'bash Amicus' thread, they happen occasionally and for your information I will explain why.

This forum is ninety to ninety five percent left wing in nature. A lose and tawdry coalition of a host of 'modern' liberal issues, including, but not limited to: pro abortion, pro feminine equality, pro gay rights, anti American, anti business, anti industrial, pro labor, pro forced integration, pAnd itro forced equality; they all believe in Ozone depletion because of man made chemicals, they believe in Global warming, again, caused by man, the favor the protection of the environment and animals over the well being of humankind...and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Along comes Quinn the Mighty Eskimo, about four years ago, who has the stark audacity to begin challenging some of these core religious beliefs of the left. They really got upset and began calling me all sorts of nasty names and accusing me of faulty parentage and lurid upbringing.

To which I responded with a hearty, 'fuck you and the liberal horse you rode in on.'

And, it has been nip and tuck, ever since.

The lefties here were and remain, totally unprepared to deal with a lucid 'right winger', as they call me, although I am not, I am an atheist of all things and a radical for laissez-faire and look down my nose at the Libertarians and the Conservatives as beneath my contempt.

I have a bit of an education in the liberal arts, although most are certain I purchased my degrees at Walmart, which they also hate, by the way.

Anyway, handprints...welcome to the fray...just wanted you to be prepared for the vitriol which is certain to pour out in copious amounts...

I remain...

Amicus...

 

[BlackShanglan]

To which I responded with a hearty, 'fuck you and the liberal horse you rode in on.'

Is that a firm offer?

 

[amicus]

Is that a firm offer?

Although I got some chuckles and a few laughs from another thread, that is the first real good laugh I had today....thanks!

Amicus...

 

[matriarch]

~~~


I did not answer your questions of take your challenge because they are not valid questions. You know full well there are no such countries that practice pure laissez-faire, thus the answers are foregone conclusions and your motive for posing them is intellectually obscene and self-serving, you just want to try to make a sly point.

Handprints...welcome to this thread also, hope you have the stomach to hang around and participate.

This is a 'bash Amicus' thread, they happen occasionally and for your information I will explain why.

This forum is ninety to ninety five percent left wing in nature. A lose and tawdry coalition of a host of 'modern' liberal issues, including, but not limited to: pro abortion, pro feminine equality, pro gay rights, anti American, anti business, anti industrial, pro labor, pro forced integration, pAnd itro forced equality; they all believe in Ozone depletion because of man made chemicals, they believe in Global warming, again, caused by man, the favor the protection of the environment and animals over the well being of humankind...and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Along comes Quinn the Mighty Eskimo, about four years ago, who has the stark audacity to begin challenging some of these core religious beliefs of the left. They really got upset and began calling me all sorts of nasty names and accusing me of faulty parentage and lurid upbringing.

To which I responded with a hearty, 'fuck you and the liberal horse you rode in on.'

And, it has been nip and tuck, ever since.

The lefties here were and remain, totally unprepared to deal with a lucid 'right winger', as they call me, although I am not, I am an atheist of all things and a radical for laissez-faire and look down my nose at the Libertarians and the Conservatives as beneath my contempt.

I have a bit of an education in the liberal arts, although most are certain I purchased my degrees at Walmart, which they also hate, by the way.

Anyway, handprints...welcome to the fray...just wanted you to be prepared for the vitriol which is certain to pour out in copious amounts...

I remain...

Amicus...

*yawn, yawn, yawn*....same old.
That's the beauty of Ami......his predictability.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Although I got some chuckles and a few laughs from another thread, that is the first real good laugh I had today....thanks!

Amicus...

My work here is done.

 

[Handprints]

Anyway, handprints...welcome to the fray...just wanted you to be prepared for the vitriol which is certain to pour out in copious amounts...

Thanks for the warning! My own political beliefs don't graft at all well onto the US' situation, so I'll probably escape most of the splashes...

Best,
H

 

[Stella_Omega]

pro abortion, pro feminine equality, pro gay rights, anti American, anti business, anti industrial, pro labor, pro forced integration, pAnd itro forced equality; they all believe in Ozone depletion because of man made chemicals, they believe in Global warming, again, caused by man, the favor the protection of the environment and animals over the well being of humankind

Well, let's see;

I am pro choice. I believe that every woman has the choice to have an abortion-- as well as an inalienable choice to not have an abortion. And that choice is hers alone.

I am definitely pro "feminine" equality. Since I am a "feminine" I have no choice but to fight for my standing in society. Likewise pro gay rights-- I'm also pro hetero rights, by the way. In fact, I am pro HUMAN rights-- all humans.

I am not anti- American, duh. A real patriot will be angry when his country fucks up. I am a businesswoman, so it's damn hard for me to be antibusiness.

I am most certainly pro labor-- labor is what I do. And I do much of it in industrial settings, so I guess Ami's wrong about the "anti-industrial" part of it-- I am however against the bad business practices and horrible abuses to human dignity that much of industry has fomented.

"Pro forced integration?" That's a mighty dead dog-- It's been pretty well established that "colored" humans can not be prevented from being anywhere any other humans happen to be.

I can't figure out what " pAnd itro forced equality" means. Not lucid.

I don't have to believe in global warming, or Ozone depletion. They are both theories that thus far have withstood rigorous attempts to disprove them. Science is not about belief.

And I definitely endorse the theory that the wellbeing of humankind is inextricably entwined with the protection of the environment and the animals that share this planet with us. Sometimes, this concern takes precedence over some project that seems very important to some humans-- like kids who want to eat chocolate before dinner, humans tend to hate being told "no" when they want to cut down some more trees, or maybe hunt and kill the last of some species of animal.


I think that addresses most of the horrible accusations.

Only-- I don't remember any poster here named Quinn the Mighty Eskimo, does anyone else?

 

[Xelebes]

Now listen fuckers, the only fucking reason you douchebags would ever piss anyone away into the fucking Ignore list is to avoid the shitty posts like these.

*several obscene images*

 

[amicus]

Well, let's see;

I am pro choice. I believe that every woman has the choice to have an abortion-- as well as an inalienable choice to not have an abortion. And that choice is hers alone.

I am definitely pro "feminine" equality. Since I am a "feminine" I have no choice but to fight for my standing in society. Likewise pro gay rights-- I'm also pro hetero rights, by the way. In fact, I am pro HUMAN rights-- all humans.

I am not anti- American, duh. A real patriot will be angry when his country fucks up. I am a businesswoman, so it's damn hard for me to be antibusiness.

I am most certainly pro labor-- labor is what I do. And I do much of it in industrial settings, so I guess Ami's wrong about the "anti-industrial" part of it-- I am however against the bad business practices and horrible abuses to human dignity that much of industry has fomented.

"Pro forced integration?" That's a mighty dead dog-- It's been pretty well established that "colored" humans can not be prevented from being anywhere any other humans happen to be.

I can't figure out what " pAnd itro forced equality" means. Not lucid.

I don't have to believe in global warming, or Ozone depletion. They are both theories that thus far have withstood rigorous attempts to disprove them. Science is not about belief.

And I definitely endorse the theory that the wellbeing of humankind is inextricably entwined with the protection of the environment and the animals that share this planet with us. Sometimes, this concern takes precedence over some project that seems very important to some humans-- like kids who want to eat chocolate before dinner, humans tend to hate being told "no" when they want to cut down some more trees, or maybe hunt and kill the last of some species of animal.


I think that addresses most of the horrible accusations.

Only-- I don't remember any poster here named Quinn the Mighty Eskimo, does anyone else?

~~~

Well, Stella, "Quinn the Eskimo" is an old song, that just came to mind...although I do not, offhand, recall performer(s).

First off, many consider abortion, the taking of an innocent life, to be a moral question.

Second, I am all for feminine equality, but not for 'feminazis' who hate males and demand preferential treatment because of their sex.

Third, Homosexuality was psychologically classified as an illness as late as the 1970's and many still consider it so. There is a valid and legitimate reason for acceptance of that definition, but it is not tolerated here.

Fourth, let's on to labor, labor unions in particular that force higher wages for lower production and use the power of unions to influence political matters for their benefit. Again, many people have those views but on this forum, they are not tolerated.

Your, "horrible abuses to human dignity by industry..." are largely myth and socialist propaganda and you know that.

Ozone depletion and Global Warming have both been debunked as political and not scientific theories.

All those, 'faith issues' of the left, I have dared to challenge, dared to have an opposing opinion and you folks just don't like it.

Please note the single tear coursing down my cheek.

Amicus...

 

[starrkers]

Sadly Ami, ozone depletion is all too real. No doubt you say the ozone hole over Antartica is a myth.
Pity the associated increase in skin cancers and speed with which sunburn occurs aren't. It is now possible to get sunburnt on a winter morning.

 

[Chantilyvamp]

First off, many consider abortion, the taking of an innocent life, to be a moral question.

Moral issue or not it is still not for the vast to decide for the few. I would prefer to see abortions legal than to see the mess left by back street doctors operating in filthy conditions. I myself would never have one but I would support my friends in a heartbeat if they chose too.

Second, I am all for feminine equality, but not for 'feminazis' who hate males and demand preferential treatment because of their sex.

Continually I hear you talk about these 'feminazis' and yet I have never met one. You'd think if there were so many women demanding preferential treatment that I would have at least come across one in my lifetime. For me I never expect to be given anything accept common courtesy and the right to at least try...same as every other human being in the universe. I worked hard for where I am and what I have achieved in my lifetime and none of it was handed on a silver platter. Nor would I allow it to be.

Third, Homosexuality was psychologically classified as an illness as late as the 1970's and many still consider it so. There is a valid and legitimate reason for acceptance of that definition, but it is not tolerated here.

It is classed as an illness by people who were afraid of it and hated the very thought of it. But many things are reclassed as time goes on just as this shall be. It is not tolereated because its not something you can just give a pill for or therapy and it goes away. Its a part of people and society. You can not force people into believing that they have an illness for something so natural. Even wild animals do it

Your, "horrible abuses to human dignity by industry..." are largely myth and socialist propaganda and you know that.

Until you have lived though it I dont think you have the right to say its a myth. Many people have suffered. Maybe not you, but then you can only speak for yourself and the ones around you. Not the entire world, just what you read in books does not make up all the knowledge in the world.

Ozone depletion and Global Warming have both been debunked as political and not scientific theories.

There is science for it and science against it. Either way the earth is changing no matter what you want to call it. But the jury is still out.

All those, 'faith issues' of the left, I have dared to challenge, dared to have an opposing opinion and you folks just don't like it.

Bring it up and oppose it all you like darlin but as you yourself have stated many times... you are allowed your opinion and you can voice it. We don't have to agree with you and we may argue with you over the finer points in life. Tell me honestly what fun would it be if we all agreed on everything? We wouldn't have much left to talk about if no one had an opposing view or a different outlook.

Please note the single tear coursing down my cheek.
Amicus...

I'd hand you a tissue if I you were being serious but since your not in leaves me feeling inclined to shoot ya with the water gun. Onguard take that *giggles* Yes I have just gone off the plot totally. Sue me I play with toddlers all day

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=Chantilyvamp]Moral issue or not it is still not for the vast to decide for the few. I would prefer to see abortions legal than to see the mess left by back street doctors operating in filthy conditions. I myself would never have one but I would support my friends in a heartbeat if they chose too.


Continually I hear you talk about these 'feminazis' and yet I have never met one. You'd think if there were so many women demanding preferential treatment that I would have at least come across one in my lifetime. For me I never expect to be given anything accept common courtesy and the right to at least try...same as every other human being in the universe. I worked hard for where I am and what I have achieved in my lifetime and none of it was handed on a silver platter. Nor would I allow it to be.


It is classed as an illness by people who were afraid of it and hated the very thought of it. But many things are reclassed as time goes on just as this shall be. It is not tolereated because its not something you can just give a pill for or therapy and it goes away. Its a part of people and society. You can not force people into believing that they have an illness for something so natural. Even wild animals do it


Until you have lived though it I dont think you have the right to say its a myth. Many people have suffered. Maybe not you, but then you can only speak for yourself and the ones around you. Not the entire world, just what you read in books does not make up all the knowledge in the world.


There is science for it and science against it. Either way the earth is changing no matter what you want to call it. But the jury is still out.


Bring it up and oppose it all you like darlin but as you yourself have stated many times... you are allowed your opinion and you can voice it. We don't have to agree with you and we may argue with you over the finer points in life. Tell me honestly what fun would it be if we all agreed on everything? We wouldn't have much left to talk about if no one had an opposing view or a different outlook.


I'd hand you a tissue if I you were being serious but since your not in leaves me feeling inclined to shoot ya with the water gun. Onguard take that *giggles* Yes I have just gone off the plot totally. Sue me I play with toddlers all day [/QUOTE]

~~~

"toddlers all day.." made me chuckle, even as a grandparent, doing that thing, I was frazzled at the end of it.

I don't seek to change a single one of your 'beliefs', choose what you wish, however, your refutations of my positions require me to defend them.


"...Moral issue or not it is still not for the vast to decide for the few. I would prefer to see abortions legal than to see the mess left by back street doctors operating in filthy conditions. I myself would never have one but I would support my friends in a heartbeat if they chose too..."

All societies have laws against murder, taking the life of others. The 'vast' decide that taking an innocent human life is a crime, regardless of the motivation. You well know I am not alone in my advocacy of this position. Aborting the life of a human fetus is taking a life, there is no other definition, perhaps you can justify it, I can not.

"...Continually I hear you talk about these 'feminazis' and yet I have never met one. You'd think if there were so many women demanding preferential treatment that I would have at least come across one in my lifetime. For me I never expect to be given anything accept common courtesy and the right to at least try...same as every other human being in the universe. I worked hard for where I am and what I have achieved in my lifetime and none of it was handed on a silver platter. Nor would I allow it to be...."

If you are not aware of the aggressive feminists over the past half century that have legislated for preferential treatment for women, then I don't know where you live or what circle of society you circulate in, it is a well known phenomenon for all in the real world. Trust me, it is a real event and has created many changes...some good, some not so good. As I said, I support equality for all, but I do not support forced quota's and all the paraphenalia that women employ to right the wrongs of the entire history of female subjugation.

I really am a 'good guy', kid, sensitive, caring, even fairly well educated, a father, a grandfather many times over, they all love me, although none understand me, as you do not, but thas okay. I do not require external approval to justify my efforts, I am what I am and I am quite comfortable with it.

And the 'single tear' thing, was from the film, "Waterworld", it just seemed appropriate at the time.

smiles...

Amicus...

 

[Chantilyvamp]

~~~

"toddlers all day.." made me chuckle, even as a grandparent, doing that thing, I was frazzled at the end of it.



"...Continually I hear you talk about these 'feminazis' and yet I have never met one. You'd think if there were so many women demanding preferential treatment that I would have at least come across one in my lifetime. For me I never expect to be given anything accept common courtesy and the right to at least try...same as every other human being in the universe. I worked hard for where I am and what I have achieved in my lifetime and none of it was handed on a silver platter. Nor would I allow it to be...."

If you are not aware of the aggressive feminists over the past half century that have legislated for preferential treatment for women, then I don't know where you live or what circle of society you circulate in, it is a well known phenomenon for all in the real world. Trust me, it is a real event and has created many changes...some good, some not so good. As I said, I support equality for all, but I do not support forced quota's and all the paraphenalia that women employ to right the wrongs of the entire history of female subjugation.

I really am a 'good guy', kid, sensitive, caring, even fairly well educated, a father, a grandfather many times over, they all love me, although none understand me, as you do not, but thas okay. I do not require external approval to justify my efforts, I am what I am and I am quite comfortable with it.

And the 'single tear' thing, was from the film, "Waterworld", it just seemed appropriate at the time.

smiles...

Amicus...

I'm aware of the aggressive feminists just havent met any myself. Though even some of the aggressive ones didnt hate men they just wanted to be on parr with men. Just saying in my circle of friends we dont expect to be handed anything on a plate. Even on here I mostly see strong women who know where they want to head and try and work torwards that without being given special treatment. *shrugs*

And the rest of it... *pats you and the head* just how cute are you anyway

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Moral issue or not it is still not for the vast to decide for the few. I would prefer to see abortions legal than to see the mess left by back street doctors operating in filthy conditions. I myself would never have one but I would support my friends in a heartbeat if they chose too.

I'd say pro-abortion. I'd also say pro-death. They're now hijacking human embryos for human experimentation. That's death. Pro-death for the embryo, at the very least. Even if we developed an artificial womb for unwanted pregnancies, they wouldn't be used - these unwanted fetuses and embryos are now cattle to be torn apart for transplants and experiments. It's horribly sick. I'd rather die of Parkinson's than kill another human being to forestall a death that is ultimately inevitable. The embryo has no choice but us bigger people - women and scientists of either gender, in particular - have the right to end their lives since they can't fight back.

Allowing that - the big preying on the small and helpless - runs totally against my liberal principles. Still, I'm no fan of putting women in the back alley either. What to do?

Continually I hear you talk about these 'feminazis' and yet I have never met one. You'd think if there were so many women demanding preferential treatment that I would have at least come across one in my lifetime. For me I never expect to be given anything accept common courtesy and the right to at least try...same as every other human being in the universe. I worked hard for where I am and what I have achieved in my lifetime and none of it was handed on a silver platter. Nor would I allow it to be.

Ever read Maureen "Are men necessary?" Dowd? Or Andrea "All sex is rape" Dworkin? Those are definitely hard core feminazis. As for preferential treatment, how about chivalry? Or the art of trading up (the man has to be taller, richer, stronger, etc.)? You've never encountered male bashing before?


I apologize for even appearing to support any point Amicus makes; count this under "a stopped clock is right twice a day". Exactly twice, on an Alaskan day, that is.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Simply put, he's an asshole. I'm certain he simply enjoys the attention he gets from being offensive- because it's probably the only kind of attention he can get. Why else is he here? Even he can't be stupid enough to imagine he's swaying anyone's opinion about anything.

Another not-so-great note to meet and greet on, but has it occurred to you that perhaps the statements of another's opinion is for their benefit, to be part of discussion and elicit responses for them to learn from as well as to have their words considered, and not so much to sway another's viewpoint? Personally, I've gotten used to the argumentation, but my purpose in posting on the political threads has more been to learn another's perspective, not so much to spread the influence of my own.

Well it was only in response to Amicus challenging BlackShanglan, etc., that's all.

With all due respect, the horse can handle its own battles.

Q_C

 

[BlackShanglan]

Fourth, let's on to labor, labor unions in particular that force higher wages for lower production and use the power of unions to influence political matters for their benefit. Again, many people have those views but on this forum, they are not tolerated.

But isn't this just the free market in operation? Surely it's not just those who buy labor who get to decide what the cost of it should be, or who get to organize themselves into groups and seek their own benefit through joint negotiation and participation in the political process (i.e., corporations).

Don't get me wrong; the last union I had any close contact with was one of the most corrupt, self-serving, dishonest, and repulsive groups of people I've ever met. I say this not because of what they did to the employer (which was a charity) but what they did to the workers, whom they thoroughly sold out in order to gain a closed shop that benefitted only the union coffers. I do actually prefer "right to work" states. But the mere existence of organized labor can't be any more wrong than the existence of organized management, if a market is truly free.

LT, thanks for your comments on abortion. It's a lonely world sometimes, being a liberal who opposes the practice. It's more awkward still given that I'm a Catholic; I recognize that most people immediately jam me into the "religious zealot" box and don't trouble themselves further. That my opposition to abortion has as much to do with DNA and constitutional law as it has to do with Christ is something that it's frustratingly difficult to get anyone to accept. No one's shown me any convincing evidence that it's not a living human being; living human beings have certain inalienable rights, the first of which is life. The church only really comes in tangentially - I think it's a good thing that our law grants humans the right to life. But that right has been there for centuries exclusive of the church anyway.

I particularly appreciated that short last thought on that topic. Indeed. That's the worst of it. I'm an ardent supporter of equal rights for all genders and sorts of people, and I'm not in the least blind to the immense difficulties an unplanned pregnancy places upon the mother. Trying to work out how to address those problems without killing some innocent person is a real Gordian knot. I took great pride in my aunt's work with a Catholic charity dedicated to the assistance of women placed in that position. It's a baby step forward, helping those who really want to soldier through, but it's a step.

 

[rgraham666]

Actually, the answer to abortion is rather simple. Sex education, without the 'only bad people do it and I really don't want to talk about it' vibe. And easy access to methods of contraception.

Unfortunately those against abortion are also often against this as well.

Shrugs. Populations of a species always balance out. When they exceed the carrying capacity of their habitat, Mother Nature starts killing them off. And Mother Nature is a bitch.

We're the only species that could avoid this if we wanted. We don't appear to want though.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Actually, the answer to abortion is rather simple. Sex education, without the 'only bad people do it and I really don't want to talk about it' vibe. And easy access to methods of contraception.

Unfortunately those against abortion are also often against this as well.

*nods* And that is a point on which I strongly oppose the church's current stance. Their opposition to the use of condoms strikes me as ignorant, antique, and patriarchally based. In writings from the hierarchy themselves on the topic, they've openly confessed that the desire to limit the perception of sex as entertainment or a non-sacred-bond practice is a strong part of their rationale. I have no problem with them wanting to view sex in that way; I have very serious problems with them attempting to enforce that view by placing a crushing burden on women while doing nothing to address the actual issue. If they want people to view sex differently, they're going to need to engage directly with that issue and present the good of their position and the strong reasons for believing it instead of the stick they're going to beat people with if they don't follow it.

What's that? "Gosh, it's going to be awfully difficult for a bunch of celibate old men to talk meaningfully about sex to young adults and families?" My God, you might be on to something. They're cutting off their own hands on the matter, anyway, with their ridiculous opposition to changing gender roles. There's such a perfectly natural route to joining women's respect for themselves and their desire for equality in a relationship with the decision to control their own bodies and not buy into the theory that their chief value to others is sexual, but we've get a bunch of old men in skirts so terrified of women gaining any sort of power that they'd rather see everyone suffer than do the sensible thing and accept that maybe girls aren't always icky.

Sorry. They do seriously get up my nose sometimes. Don't even get me started on the theory that God wants us to keep reproducing like rabbits as a sacred duty, ignoring all other issues including the destruction of his lovely world and the suffering of the poor in favor of making more and more and more humans. Even they don't believe it; follow their arguments back carefully and you end right back at "But we can't let sex become a sport and entertainment rather than a spiritual expression." It's remarkable the way they keep tryng to pretend that making something result in danger, financial ruin, or the burden of unwanted children will somehow make it a spiritual experience. The worst part of this, to me, is that sex as a spiritual expression is a stunningly beautiful thing that lays pretty much every other variety of sex in the shade - and they don't even touch on that idea, because they're all meant to be celibate anyway, and they don't want word getting out that it might be fun.

But Rob, there's this problem, and I will be the first to face it. Contraception alone won't answer everything. One of the women my aunt worked with was carrying a child who was conceived when she was raped. I can't say how I admire her courage in defending that child's right to live, when the events that brought it into existence were so painful to her. Her own family and friends had turned on her for that decision, but still she clung on with faith and determination. I think of her as a person of remarkable spiritual strength - but I realize that not everyone has that strength. Cases like that are the most difficult for anyone who opposes abortion. There's going to be a terrible injustice done no matter what course of action is taken, and it's a dreadful decision for any human being to be faced with.

 

[Recidiva]

Not trying to step on any toes here.. but, what's with all the Amicus-bashing? I'm relatively new here... and true, I've done my share of tongue-in-cheek replies to another author who is a legend in his own mind, but if anything, I find his pompous posts amusing, however delusional they may be.

I've only ever participated in one thread (that I know of) in which Amicus was active, so my experience is limited. But, I think one of the great characteristics of the AH is that there are so many different personalities represented and intermingled here. Not everyone appreciates personal differences as much as I do (which is perhaps the very quality that you find objectionable in Amicus). But I say, live and let live.. and enjoy the ride.

My ALL TIME favorite Amicus thread.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=420714

Favorite sentence?

"Discounting the ‘cows’ and the cheerleaders, I project that about ten percent, one in ten, of the females, are capable of rational thought. Problems there? (I may be generous with ten percent)"

 

[Chantilyvamp]

I'd say pro-abortion. I'd also say pro-death. They're now hijacking human embryos for human experimentation. That's death. Pro-death for the embryo, at the very least. Even if we developed an artificial womb for unwanted pregnancies, they wouldn't be used - these unwanted fetuses and embryos are now cattle to be torn apart for transplants and experiments. It's horribly sick. I'd rather die of Parkinson's than kill another human being to forestall a death that is ultimately inevitable. The embryo has no choice but us bigger people - women and scientists of either gender, in particular - have the right to end their lives since they can't fight back.

Allowing that - the big preying on the small and helpless - runs totally against my liberal principles. Still, I'm no fan of putting women in the back alley either. What to do?


Ever read Maureen "Are men necessary?" Dowd? Or Andrea "All sex is rape" Dworkin? Those are definitely hard core feminazis. As for preferential treatment, how about chivalry? Or the art of trading up (the man has to be taller, richer, stronger, etc.)? You've never encountered male bashing before?


I apologize for even appearing to support any point Amicus makes; count this under "a stopped clock is right twice a day". Exactly twice, on an Alaskan day, that is.

*sighs*
You have your right to whatever ground you stand with on abortion. I'm just saying I dont do it but I wont prevent others from doing it. Its not my place nor my right. If they decide to for most women there is a reason and I wont be the one yelling at them for it.

No, I havent read those books. I did say this before in my reply to amicus...I have not met any myself. So maybe I'm naive and stupid for fucks sake, but seriously I dont see that many here on the boards and thats what I gathered was being said. Chivalry?? So what I treat men with chivalry as well and I dont expect it from them and very rarely have I seen much. I dont trade up men and I dont have any friends who do either. I never said it doesnt happen just that I dont know anyone personally who has. And male bashing is not quite the same as 'man hating' in my book. On the same hand what about all the female bashing that goes on. And I'm not saying there arent man haters out there, as there probably is. Same as there are plenty women haters out there.

I just don't go in for the whole women have their place so if a few radical women had to step up and fling shit at men to get the other women in a better place then so be it. I for one don't fit the whole domestic goddess wash the fucking masters feet scenario.

And I'm ranting now and not being polite as I have had enough of today of men trying to put me in my place and tell me what I can and cannot do. And for one in the area I live in it seems most of the men want the women to be doormats and I'm just about to loose my patience with the whole thing. So I apologise if I came in the thread and said I didnt know any feminazis myself.

edit~ no offence meant but its been a really long day and my patience has run thin.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Warning, long rant!

But isn't this just the free market in operation? Surely it's not just those who buy labor who get to decide what the cost of it should be, or who get to organize themselves into groups and seek their own benefit through joint negotiation and participation in the political process (i.e., corporations).

In short, can Amicus tell us one right that organized management has that should be denied of organized labor? Amicus is right there when it's time to blame unions for a car manufacturer's problems - where is Amicus when the problem turns out to be upper management designing cars with poor gas mileage and parts from China/Mexico that break down or explode or whatever, or when the CEO takes off with a multimillion $ paycheck while the company is going down in flames? Amicus never criticizes a CEO that is paid millions while failing to save his/her company. Amicus never says anything when it turns out people are looking for more fuel efficient cars and that turns out to be why GM, etc. are losing money.

Amicus just says "blame unions" (to the tune of "Blame Canada", no doubt).

Don't get me wrong; the last union I had any close contact with was one of the most corrupt, self-serving, dishonest, and repulsive groups of people I've ever met. I say this not because of what they did to the employer (which was a charity) but what they did to the workers, whom they thoroughly sold out in order to gain a closed shop that benefitted only the union coffers. I do actually prefer "right to work" states. But the mere existence of organized labor can't be any more wrong than the existence of organized management, if a market is truly free.

Shut you mouth! Workers are evil. Management is the poor, helpless and beset upon angel of benevolence and mercy.

LT, thanks for your comments on abortion. It's a lonely world sometimes, being a liberal who opposes the practice. It's more awkward still given that I'm a Catholic; I recognize that most people immediately jam me into the "religious zealot" box and don't trouble themselves further. That my opposition to abortion has as much to do with DNA and constitutional law as it has to do with Christ is something that it's frustratingly difficult to get anyone to accept. No one's shown me any convincing evidence that it's not a living human being; living human beings have certain inalienable rights, the first of which is life. The church only really comes in tangentially - I think it's a good thing that our law grants humans the right to life. But that right has been there for centuries exclusive of the church anyway.

The head scratcher here is that "pro-choice" is a perfect match for Conservatism and its defense of absolute greed at the expense of everything in its path. I completely refuse to believe it's about "preserving life" for them, and their attitudes towards women's rights and their apathy towards the suffering of born children and their mothers, continually confirms that. Conservative fathers threaten to throw their daughters out if they get pregnant. What kind of crap is that?

The thing is, my suspicions about the right-wing side of "pro-life" culture, are being confirmed, as I hear rumors now about "pro-life" women getting abortions on the down low. Then again, cops sometimes sniff powder cocaine, too.

Liberals confound me on this, too. We're forever on the march towards a more all-inclusive world and their position on abortion is a total about-face. We've fallen into the "might makes rights" position, which is a totally Right Wing mentality. We treat rabid dogs and rapist-murderers better than unwanted fetuses.

I particularly appreciated that short last thought on that topic. Indeed. That's the worst of it. I'm an ardent supporter of equal rights for all genders and sorts of people, and I'm not in the least blind to the immense difficulties an unplanned pregnancy places upon the mother. Trying to work out how to address those problems without killing some innocent person is a real Gordian knot. I took great pride in my aunt's work with a Catholic charity dedicated to the assistance of women placed in that position. It's a baby step forward, helping those who really want to soldier through, but it's a step.

Exactly, it's a classic Gordian Knot. I'm quite worried about what society would do NEXT if we told women they can't have an abortion for birth control reasons, and about the back alley abortions. A pregnant woman who wants her baby is under huge pressure. An unwanted pregnancy is orders of magnitude worse. We'd be jamming her in a vice and as you know, stress can kill unborn babies, too. I'm not sure that would make much difference with the way society is now.

Conservatives could work with us by allowing us to provide a safety net for those caught with unwanted pregnancies, while themselves providing incentives not to pump out babies like a factory does paper clips. But they also need to stop judging pregnant women. Or, at least, they need to judge the father just as harshly. The old back room "atta boy, you're such a stud" B.S. needs to go. They could push for more condom use instead of screaming about how condoms lead to promiscuity. And why can't you find any of these Rush Limbaugh pro-lifers at the crisis pregnancy center, anyway? Are they afraid of being at the line of scrimmage? It occurs to me that right wingers legislate morality from afar, in their ivory castles. While everyone who makes law, essentially legislates morality, when you do so without knowing the battlefield personally, it inherently makes for bad policy.

Anyways. My wife and I donate money and goods to crisis pregnancy centers and she talks to at-risk pregnant women a lot to counsel and support them. She's sometimes too good - we blew a chance to adopt a baby because the mom decided to keep him. Ah well, better that than abortion.

 

[rgraham666]

Her friends and family did what?

That's really fucked.

Why, oh why, do people put the consequences of an action on the victim? It's a facet of humanity quite beyond my capacity to understand.