Are Many/Most Bi's Really Just Closet Hedonists?

[Safe_Bet]

Luna:

Okay, your bestie is an Ally. Thank her for me for being that.

Now, YOU know she is (cuz as you say, she "walks the walk"). How do we tell her apart from the ones who just "talk the talk"?

To exercise political power we need to better quantify this sort of thing (yeah I know, I'm math geeking out) so that we know what our real power is before we exercise it. If we falsely think we are SuperGirl and we're really Lois Lane we're kinda fucked if we try to stop a bullet.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Darlings, of course you can talk about anything you want-- and we do.

I've started a lot of threads here, about the life and issues, I've even turned wank threads into threads about the issues. I was able to move a whole bunch of wanking threads away from this forum, even-- but what we have here is what it is. More nuanced conversation happens more often elsewhere.

You can walk out onto the beach and blame the sand for being sandy, if you want. But the sand will go on being sandy.

"I was able to move a whole bunch of ranking threads away from this forum..."????

Damn, honey! Self-obsess much?

YOU didn't do squat that the rest of us didn't do (and all that was to make suggestions at Etoile's request). Etoile, Laurel and Manu made that happen not you. You're just another poster on this board like the rest of us. Stop acting like you ain't, K?

 

[PurpleJade]

ok, i'm confused. Why on earth do you think you can quantify how many bi-sexuals will support the GLBT cause actively and politically? I mean how do you quantify how many gay/lesbian people will actively support the GLBT cause? Is it not just better trying to quantify how many PEOPLE support the cause? I just don't quite see the point of the latest twist to this thread - perhaps you could assist me.
My head hurts trying to follow all of this!!

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

That's the problem. I don't know how we can quantify those who walk the walk and those who talk the talk. We don't have a way to do so. Not on the internet. We don't even have a way of seeing who really is who here. And for the most part, that's cool.

The problem isn't ONLY those people who visit Gay Street for fantasy or who only use a body part to get off. It's everyone who see's the problem but feels like there isn't anything to be done about it because it doesn't affect them.

As a minority, we are always going to have that problem. We will never be able to tell just from words, who counts for us and who counts against us. I know that there are plenty of people, both in and out of the closet, in my neck of the woods who work daily toward making GLBT rights something that happens right now.

But I can't tell, from words on a porn board, who those people are...and conversations like this one seem to ONLY add fuel to the fire when no more fuel is needed.

Like I said before~I learned some things from this thread. I copied quotes and posted em elsewhere, shared em with my friends, talked, asked...and i learned quite a bit THANKS to this thread...but that does no good on this forum when most people won't/can't do the same.

It's too hard to get a bead on it.

 

[Safe_Bet]

ok, i'm confused. Why on earth do you think you can quantify how many bi-sexuals will support the GLBT cause actively and politically? I mean how do you quantify how many gay/lesbian people will actively support the GLBT cause? Is it not just better trying to quantify how many PEOPLE support the cause? I just don't quite see the point of the latest twist to this thread - perhaps you could assist me.
My head hurts trying to follow all of this!!

Fair question. Here let me try to 'splain -

It's safe to assume that the VAST majority of gay and lesbians support gay and lesbian equality. They have a vested intesest in doing so because THEY are the ones being discriminated against.

It's also safe to assume that at least half of the hertero population either doesn't give a damn or is opposed to gay rights (this is borne out in voting and contribution statistics).

For me, the BIG unknown is the Bi community. Depending on who you believe they compromise from 3 - 15 percent of the population.

Now how many of them support GLBT rights? Is it almost all? Half? Same as heteros?

Next part is, let's say it's half. Is there any chance of swaying them to our side in a permanent tangible manner (meaning they are dedicated to vote and contribute).

All these are important because we, even as a group, are relatively small. This limits how many people can get out the vote, how much money we have to advertise and support, etc. In other words, we need to direct our efforts at those who will respond positively.

It's not the fundie, heteros. Is it the Bis and how many???

Does that make more sense to you?

 

[deckardB26354]

That's the problem. I don't know how we can quantify those who walk the walk and those who talk the talk. We don't have a way to do so. Not on the internet. We don't even have a way of seeing who really is who here. And for the most part, that's cool.

LW, thanks for posting this because this is exactly the way that I feel that Amy is handling her opinion of bisexuals.

Since we can't "quantify those who walk the walk and those who talk the talk" therefore all bisexuals are against the GLBT cause. THAT'S how I believe that Amy truly seems to feel as reflected by her posts in this thread. Right or wrong...that's how I feel.

 

[Safe_Bet]

LW, thanks for posting this because this is exactly the way that I feel that Amy is handling her opinion of bisexuals.

Since we can't "quantify those who walk the walk and those who talk the talk" therefore all bisexuals are against the GLBT cause. THAT'S how I believe that Amy truly seems to feel as reflected by her posts in this thread. Right or wrong...that's how I feel.

Dude, can you lay off on the fucking Amy bashing (or at least start a new thread to do it in?)

BTW, you're dead ass wrong. You aren't reading my words. I have said nothing like that nor like what you twisted my prior words to say with your over simplification trick (which is why I didn't respond to that snide bit of work).

 

[deckardB26354]

That isn't WHAT I said. Or didn't you read what I said about my friend who is heteroflexible. I DO have a problem with bi people who are only bi when the lights are out and their dicks or pussy's are getting pleasured. I DO have a problem with people who only support our rights when it is convenient for them to do so.

Anyone can say they support our rights but if they are NOT willing to walk the walk, I don't want to hear from them. THAT is what I said. THAT is what I meant.

My bestie is mostly straight. Yet she supports our rights with every breath in her body. She doesn't admit that she digs girls in a sexual way BUT she supports us ANY flippin way. THAT is what counts.

I have been struggling for quite a few years as a black queer female. Excuse me if i don't buy that bullshit about the closet. Anyone can support us, in the closet or not...but don't talk about it, BE about it...or keep your trap shut. How is that difficult to understand?

I'll make it very simple. Here are your words again (with my emphasis added):

I don't expect anyone to martyr themselves for a cause, but if a person can lie, deny and sneak in and out of a closet on a whim...then why should they support our rights? What's really in it for them that they aren't already getting? Why should they have any say in what those rights are?

They (meaning anyone and EVERYONE) should support [GLBT] rights...BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

Also under 'the right thing to do':
Ending Apartheid
The Civil Rights Act
The Equal Rights Act
The end of Nazi facism and their atrocities in WWII
The Emancipation Proclamation

...and on...and on...and on.

It's not about why or who is doing it...it just HAS TO BE DONE. Period, the end.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Sorry, Luna.

I'm done at least for now. We tried, but I personally have met my "Gee, let's insult Amy rather then address the fucking issues" quota for the day.


EDIT: Sorry, after his last few posts, let's change that to "Gee, let's insult Amy and Luna..."
Sorry, I ask you to come back. You don't deserve to be abused because some asshole(s) disagree with you.

 

[PurpleJade]

Does that make more sense to you?

Yes that makes more sense. I see what you are trying to say. The more bis that can be attracted to become politically active the better.
However, and PLEEEEAAAASE don't take this badly (I am honestly trying to be constructive and helpful), but you are going to attract more flies with honey, you know? If your opening gambit is couched in terms that could potentially offend the bi 'community' you are going to put off more people than you attract. Some will stop and listen and try and see what you are actually saying, and try and ignore any offence that may be caused initially (like me - but I am only a... what was it?.... latent bi-sexual, so I don't count regardless), but others are just gonna feel like the gay community doesn't want us bis. Not a great result.

 

[deckardB26354]

Dude, can you lay off on the fucking Amy bashing (or at least start a new thread to do it in?)

BTW, you're dead ass wrong. You aren't reading my words. I have said nothing like that nor like what you twisted my prior words to say with your over simplification trick (which is why I didn't respond to that snide bit of work).

You're obviously too emotional to discuss this rationally. There's no 'Amy bashing' going on here. I want to discuss this and you want to force feed your beliefs and paranoia to everyone here...I focused on you and you don't like it. Am I calling you names? Insulting you with terms others have offered up, but I haven't. I'm trying to stay above the muck and talk about this.

First off, I was dead fucking serious when I wrote that 'snide bit of work' and I figured you wouldn't respond because I'd called you out on the current batch of fresh dissension you were shoveling.

Secondly, I AM reading your words...which is why I took to quoting them back to you in that "post of which we should not speak it's name".

Why don't you come down off of your high lesbian horse and speak to someone on a equal level...respecting their feelings and treating them as you'd want to be treated. That's all I'm saying here.

 

[girlsmiley]

You're obviously too emotional to discuss this rationally. There's no 'Amy bashing' going on here. I want to discuss this and you want to force feed your beliefs and paranoia to everyone here...I focused on you and you don't like it. Am I calling you names? Insulting you with terms others have offered up, but I haven't. I'm trying to stay above the muck and talk about this.

First off, I was dead fucking serious when I wrote that 'snide bit of work' and I figured you wouldn't respond because I'd called you out on the current batch of fresh dissension you were shoveling.

Secondly, I AM reading your words...which is why I took to quoting them back to you in that "post of which we should not speak it's name".

Why don't you come down off of your high lesbian horse and speak to someone on a equal level...respecting their feelings and treating them as you'd want to be treated. That's all I'm saying here.

Tell me what a high lesbian horse is?

Oh and paranoia? Haha!

Shovelling? Maybe you can shovel whatever random crap you're really trying to say on somebody elses thread. Hmm? Maybe you can go and start a thread. You ever think about that, champ?

Because I doubt that anyone here knows what the fuck your problem is, or what the fuck you're talking about.

 

[deckardB26354]

Tell me what a high lesbian horse is?

Oh and paranoia? Haha!

Shovelling? Maybe you can shovel whatever random crap you're really trying to say on somebody elses thread. Hmm? Maybe you can go and start a thread. You ever think about that, champ?

Because I doubt that anyone here knows what the fuck your problem is, or what the fuck you're talking about.

Oh my...I'm totally shocked in your response to my thoughts and feelings.

</sarcasm>

Got that 'champ'? Good

 

[girlsmiley]

They (meaning anyone and EVERYONE) should support [GLBT] rights...BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

It's not about why or who is doing it...it just HAS TO BE DONE. Period, the end.

People can treat others with dignity and respect.
Doesn't mean everyone DOES or HAS TO.
People have a CHOICE.

What WORLD do you live in?

Is there something wrong with your head, guy?
I'm being serious.

You know what? Don't bother. You're a total MIND FUCK

 

[Safe_Bet]

People can treat others with dignity and respect.
Doesn't mean everyone DOES or HAS TO.
People have a CHOICE.

What WORLD do you live in?

Is there something wrong with your head, guy?
I'm being serious.

You know what? Don't bother. You're a total MIND FUCK

Don't bother, GS. (but thanks )

We just need to realize that "Mr. Expounding From His Indepth Understanding of the Bi Community" 's only "Bi experience" has been shoving a greases enema tube up his own ass and having a "revelation" that he is now Bi (according to him anyways).

Let's just consider the source, okay?

 

[deckardB26354]

Don't bother, GS. (but thanks )

We just need to realize that "Mr. Expounding From His Indepth Understanding of the Bi Community" 's only "Bi experience" has been shoving a greases enema tube up his own ass and having a "revelation" that he is now Bi (according to him anyways).

Let's just consider the source, okay?

Ok...I give up. You're either too stupid to read or just to comprehend what I'm saying, so I'm out. That's OBVIOUSLY not what I said and you're both twisting my words to meet your own idiotic and bigoted ends. So have fun ladies.

 

[girlsmiley]

Don't bother, GS. (but thanks )

We just need to realize that "Mr. Expounding From His Indepth Understanding of the Bi Community" 's only "Bi experience" has been shoving a greases enema tube up his own ass and having a "revelation" that he is now Bi (according to him anyways).

Let's just consider the source, okay?

Haha!
You're welcome hon.

 

[Etoile]

Tell me what a high lesbian horse is?

I was all set to make some little picture of two girl horses smoking dope, but when I went to find horse pictures, I found this and was so tickled I had to share.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YXC41J3KL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

Sorry, this is totally irrelevant to the thread, but if any of you were horse fans growing up like I was, I thought you'd be amused by this book too!

 

[Safe_Bet]

I was all set to make some little picture of two girl horses smoking dope, but when I went to find horse pictures, I found this and was so tickled I had to share.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YXC41J3KL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

Sorry, this is totally irrelevant to the thread, but if any of you were horse fans growing up like I was, I thought you'd be amused by this book too!

Hahahahaha! Cute!

 

[jackielicker]

Gee. After all this, I'll simply say that I can't think of a person, male or female, young or old, fat or skinny, gay, straight or other that I've met since beng sexually active that I haven't at least fantasized about fucking. In fact, I've had quite a few crushes on lesbians. Not that I think I could "turn" them, but just that I think the individuals involved are attractive in personality and looks (and, no, they're not lipstick lesbians - some are skinny and boyish, others are heavyset - it's their sense of personhood that turns me on).

Most of my fantasies revolve around me pleasuring the objects of my fantasies, so I don't know what that does to your thesis.

 

[girlsmiley]

I was all set to make some little picture of two girl horses smoking dope, but when I went to find horse pictures, I found this and was so tickled I had to share.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YXC41J3KL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

Sorry, this is totally irrelevant to the thread, but if any of you were horse fans growing up like I was, I thought you'd be amused by this book too!

Hahaha!
I want to read it!
I bet it's entertaining...

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I was all set to make some little picture of two girl horses smoking dope, but when I went to find horse pictures, I found this and was so tickled I had to share.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YXC41J3KL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

Sorry, this is totally irrelevant to the thread, but if any of you were horse fans growing up like I was, I thought you'd be amused by this book too!

BEST HIJACK EVER!!!!

 

[timetotry]

This thread needs a recap of the major cast of characters for those that are just joining us and don't want to re read the entire thread.

OP - Safe Bet She posed a good question actually but it turned into the snowball
at the top of the mountain. The real question is: Does Safe Bet
mean it's a safe bet she is pissed off all the time or does she take
surly pills every morning?

Stella "call me Snidely" Omega - Stella gave her usual valid points and opinions and
is one of the more knowledgeable folks around on this forum. (I
am not shilling for her in any way shape or fashion and in fact we
have had our own disagreements in another thread but it's NOT
personal it's opinions.)

Candicame Accused along with yours truly of hijacking this thread with
nonsense. Never met the guy but he seems nice enuff.

HottieMaama How can you not like any woman named Hottie?

Timetotry Tool belt carrying, licensed contractor by day and panty
wearing cock worshiper in my fantasies. Oh yeah resident
wise ass also.

Girl Smiley Poor lass. A comment of mine must have reminded her
that it only takes a minute or two for her also to fill out all of
her Christmas cards. Smile much smiley? Not hugged enough
when you were young? (by the way the comment about another
poster being older than the rest was petty) I do applaud your
sleuth ability in finding my posts and putting them on display.
Geez here I thought I could hide them in a forum with a million
sets of eyeballs. Now I will never again be able to talk about my
fantasies without fear of public scrutiny. Oh woe is me.

Now that we are all caught up let the action continue.

 

[CandiCame]

This thread needs a recap of the major cast of characters for those that are just joining us and don't want to re read the entire thread.

OP - Safe Bet She posed a good question actually but it turned into the snowball
at the top of the mountain. The real question is: Does Safe Bet
mean it's a safe bet she is pissed off all the time or does she take
surly pills every morning?

Stella "call me Snidely" Omega - Stella gave her usual valid points and opinions and
is one of the more knowledgeable folks around on this forum. (I
am not shilling for her in any way shape or fashion and in fact we
have had our own disagreements in another thread but it's NOT
personal it's opinions.)

Candicame Accused along with yours truly of hijacking this thread with
nonsense. Never met the guy but he seems nice enuff.

HottieMaama How can you not like any woman named Hottie?

Timetotry Tool belt carrying, licensed contractor by day and panty
wearing cock worshiper in my fantasies. Oh yeah resident
wise ass also.

Girl Smiley Poor lass. A comment of mine must have reminded her
that it only takes a minute or two for her also to fill out all of
her Christmas cards. Smile much smiley? Not hugged enough
when you were young? (by the way the comment about another
poster being older than the rest was petty) I do applaud your
sleuth ability in finding my posts and putting them on display.
Geez here I thought I could hide them in a forum with a million
sets of eyeballs. Now I will never again be able to talk about my
fantasies without fear of public scrutiny. Oh woe is me.

Now that we are all caught up let the action continue.

2 fuckin' lines, dude? How am I supposed to reconcile that with my hedonistic nature?

Wow- I haven't said that since the last time I did coke.

Yeah, I haven't been paying attention to the past couple pages 'cause I was at class then work. But Ima go back and read in a lurking fashion. Just wanted to get that joke in there.

 

[CandiCame]

Damn, I honestly didn't miss much.

OK- politically.

Every movement needs every member it can get. In a democracy (I know that we are a republic, but for the sake of simplification) the more votes something gets, the better. Now, in a republic with pre-established laws, the more logical something is (and thus how it can hold up in a court of law) is more important then how popular it is.

Logically, there is no reason to make a marriage contract exclusive to a heterosexual couple.

Logically, there is no excuse that a person gets manslaughter instead of murder for a hate crime.

Logically, there is no reason to isolate a huge pool of constitutes.

We're playing a time game.

As someone who has been in politics his entire life (seriously, I was in commercials as a baby because my grandfather ran for office, I was a child on the radio telling people who to vote for, I was the teenager working in the county clerk's office, and handing out balloons campaigning) I can tell you that logic and numbers are the best friends of any political movement. It does no good to say, "fuck you, you're selfish". If you feel that your constitutes are selfish, then you say, "These law changes would benefit you," and then explain how.

You explain to the homophobic culture how the added income from the additional marriage licenses will benefit their community. You explain to the hedonistic bisexual how the laws against sodomy will being revoked will give him less to fear. You use logic.

You look like the sane one.

That, above all else, has been drilled in my head from every campaign slogan, every political debate, every rights rally, every voting booth- you be the sane one. You don't hurt anyone. You don't sling mud. You be sane, you be logical, you be charismatic, and you bide your time.

In my grandparents generation, people of different races couldn't marry.

My parents got married (2 different races) 20 years later.

Stay positive and realize that this is going to happen.

I'm unsure where you're pulling your stats from, but according to the IT Get Better Foundation, along with the American Opinion Polls (which I know do not matter in Australia) the only group that really vehemently opposes gay rights are above the age of 55. They tend to be ultra conservative, and to vote in disproportionately high numbers. They also won't live much longer.

I'm also unsure of where you're getting your statistics of bi/pansexuals making up 15% of the population. According to Kinsley, Karmaloff-Smith, and many other sociologists, the human sexuality spectrum is a bell curve, with 10-15% being exclusively attracted to the same sex, 10-15% being attracted to the opposite sex, and everyone else falling along the bell curve of bisexuality. 70-90% of the population is bisexual to some degree, including the conservative politicians who so frequently find themselves involved in sex scandals.

The culture that forces people into the closet, the culture that creates problems when there are none, is changing, but the world is still a frightening place to live; especially around where I am. I will vote (god, my grandparents would seriously kill me if I didn't- I vote in elections I don't give a shit about) and use my voice within the system. I am confident that this culture is changing- the world is already a better place then it was just 20 years ago. Political waters are torrid right now because of the change.

To quote Taki: It gets better.