Are you familiar with this?

[PennameWombat]

I'm not the most technologically proficient person in this forum (to put it mildly), and I'm not getting this, so be patient. I checked out that Reddit page. How do we know Laurel or Manu are responsible for it or moderating it?

Suppose they are. It looks like it's just another means of marketing Literotica. It's been around since 2009. When I checked there were 6 members logged into it. So, that's small potatoes. It looks like it's mainly a way for participants in the Reddit page to inquire about stories of a certain type. People can do that here, too.

<snip>

They have made 158 posts in 8 years. Not exactly a lot of posting activity. It works out to an average of almost 20 posts a year. And if you look at the posting history, there are years long gaps in posts.

Being a mod on a subreddit isn't much work if you aren't actually doing anything there.

This.

There are three moderators on the r/Literotica subreddit (and the automod bot), u/LitLits states it's the Official Account of Literotica. However, they have a Post Karma of 158 and Comment Karma of 24. In other words, they participate not heavily. The other two moderators make no statement about being 'official,' nor do they provide direct links to their LitE accounts, if any. One is active across multiple writing/author subreddits, but that's as far as I've looked. But if there is much actual moderation happening, they seem the more likely ones.

But there's nothing unique that isn't simply part of Reddit. I hadn't found r/Literotica before, but my reddit account is much younger than theirs with a rather higher Karma. On the other hand, my account there has no obvious connection to this account. Before it turned into a cesspool, I did use my Twitter account to 'advertise' my new posts here, tagging in the Lit account and they'd retweet. I never noticed any sort of uptick in views or votes though. There were other LitE authors who were more dedicated users of Twitter, but I hadn't seen any of them in the last six or twelve months before I bailed off Twitter,

I don't particularly understand why anyone would get upset about this. You, too, can set up a subreddit, it's not like you need to write huge amounts of code or anything to use that site. IOW, having a subreddit isn't going to suck up so much effort that it'd prevent anything being done here. And that subreddit simply operates as does most every other one.

 

[Bramblethorn]

What I also want to point out is that nobody here knew about this thread until now (correct me if I'm wrong)

Actually, you knew about /r/literotica back in July, because you were posting in a discussion about it:
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/literotica-subreddit.1614844/

It's been mentioned a few times before that, though I think the other times were before you joined:
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/linking-lit-stories-in-reddit.1508228/
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/so-i-found-this-on-reddit.1514452/

I'd guess the reason it's not better known here is just because it's low-traffic and most of the posts there are low-interest stuff like "please help me find this story I read years ago", "what is the Literotica policy on images?", or very specific requests like "looking for MMF stories where the other M is the F's brother".

, and I haven't even seen a post or announcement from Literotica where they promoted the thread among authors so we could join it and at least engage the readers there if we aren't getting any concessions here.

When you learned about its existence back in July, did you join it and attempt to engage the readers there?

If yes...what on earth are you complaining about?

If no...what on earth are you complaining about?

It feels a lot like complaining for complaining's sake.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yet those same people have no problem with the countless panegyrics about the website and its owners, even if those are just as unfounded as my diatribes.
My somewhat excessive negativity is purely reactionary and designed to provoke a discussion.

Trolling, IOW.

 

[StillStunned]

My somewhat excessive negativity is purely reactionary and designed to provoke a discussion.

Discussion about what, and with who? It's not like anyone here has the power to change anything. You're not rallying us all to go on strike to get what you want. And even if we did, and the whole AH stopped submitting stories, then what? Would the site even notice?

Once people grow some backbone and at least an ounce of objectivity about these things,

By "grow a backbone", do you mean "get worked up about something trivial"? Because for most of us it just doesn't matter.

Objectively, we get what we want out of this site: a place to publish stories and be admired by thousands of readers. Is it perfect? No. Is it going to change? No. Should it change? Judging by the evidence, probably not. It's been doing well for 25+ years, without responding to the whims of a few users.

About the owners not interacting here: have you considered that maybe it's people's constant complaints that have driven them away?

 

[Plathfan]

looking for MMF stories where the other M is the F's brother

Bump

 

[Omenainen]

Trolling, IOW.

Oh, but you see, other people’s trolling is trolling but his war is Holy.

 

[jaF0]

I'd guess the reason it's not better known here is just because it's low-traffic and most of the posts there are low-interest stuff like ...

The way I found it was by looking for information about an ongoing outage here. I figured maybe there might be other readers there who knew what was happening in case it was just me for some reason. There were a couple of posts from that one ID listing updates and expected restoration times.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Discussion about what, and with who? It's not like anyone here has the power to change anything.

I agree but we discuss plenty of things we are powerless to change here. That in itself isn't a reason not to say things that need to be said. We are certainly powerless to change things but as I mentioned five times already, it's the stark contrast between people's reaction to the praise, and to the criticism towards Lit that rubs me the wrong way. I've never seen anyone who was praising Lit being attacked personally here. Compare that to the mockery such as you can see in this thread or to the "if you don't like it, leave" messages that I received in older threads.
I mean, if we are powerless and if everything we say falls on deaf ears anyway, then both criticism and praise should be equally pointless, right? Equally prone to mockery and personal attacks?

You're not rallying us all to go on strike to get what you want. And even if we did, and the whole AH stopped submitting stories, then what? Would the site even notice?

I am definitely not proposing that. We are but a drop in the endless sea of Literotica contributors

About the owners not interacting here: have you considered that maybe it's people's constant complaints that have driven them away?

I seriously doubt that's the reason.
There is far, far more praise, or even sucking up to the website owners (in rare cases) than there is direct criticism. There are more fingers on one of my hands than there are those who voice open criticism towards the website among the 50-100 more or less regular AH denizens. Something else is the reason. I could take my guess but yeah, we already established that we aren't in the know so it's probably better not to speculate.

 

[NoTalentHack]

It is an incredibly low-traffic subreddit. Like, I've seen sub-sub-sub-niche hobbies with subreddits boasting more traffic. That's not to denigrate the work put into it, but treating it like it's the secret key to viewer numbers or something is silly. Their Twitter account (god, I hope they make a bsky one soon) sees more engagement, as far as I can tell, by an order of magnitude.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I agree but we discuss plenty of things we are powerless to change here. That in itself isn't a reason not to say things that need to be said. We are certainly powerless to change things but as I mentioned five times already, it's the stark contrast between people's reaction to the praise, and to the criticism towards Lit that rubs me the wrong way. I've never seen anyone who was praising Lit being attacked personally here. Compare that to the mockery such as you can see in this thread or to the "if you don't like it, leave" messages that I received in older threads.
I mean, if we are powerless and if everything we say falls on deaf ears anyway, then both criticism and praise should be equally pointless, right? Equally prone to mockery and personal attacks?

I've expressed criticism of Literotica many times - the category system, aspects of forum moderation, at least implicitly on the use of "AI detection" software. I've certainly encountered argument on those topics, some of it heated, but I can't recall ever feeling "mocked" for it.

But when you unabashedly acknowledge that you're getting histrionic in hope of provoking responses; when you take part in a discussion about the thing,then a couple of months later complain that you weren't told about the thing; when you know about it and opt not to use it, then complain about not getting a chance to use it...what kind of reaction do you think that deserves?

You're being ridiculed because your attitude in this thread has been ridiculous. I know you're capable of productive discussion on some topics, but on this one you seem to be determined to cast yourself as "old man yelling at clouds that aren't even there".

 

[Bazzle]

I've posted links to my stories on the bot generated Thursday fetish post and had absolutely no feedback!

 

[SimonDoom]

the countless panegyrics about the website and its owners,

Who EVER does this? I have never seen "countless panegyrics" by anybody about this website. The closest to this I can think of was a really nice comment that AwkwardMD made about the Site not too long ago, which I thought was well deserved and kind. I've praised the Site for the things I've enjoyed about it but also, for years, made recommendations about changes. You and Lovecraft push this pseudo-conspiracy idea that the Site is somehow "getting away with something" with the aid of willing dupes and sucker, and it's just not true. It's a false narrative. The site is imperfect. Who gives a shit? It's run by two people, and you have NO idea whatsoever what their limitations are in terms of time or resources to make things better.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Who EVER does this? I have never seen "countless panegyrics" by anybody about this website.

That was funny.

You and Lovecraft push this pseudo-conspiracy idea that the Site is somehow "getting away with something" with the aid of willing dupes and sucker, and it's just not true. It's a false narrative.

This is also funny. You chose not to engage the core of my posts and now you are even insinuating something I have never, ever claimed. What bloody conspiracy? You are putting some weird version of Lovecraft's words in my mouth. I've never said anything like that. We both criticize the website but our reasons, even if they sometimes overlap, are not the same. All I ever claimed was that:

a) The website doesn't give a shit about the needs of authors. Absolutely zero fucks given. And that, together with their policy not to communicate with us at all, is what has always been the reason for me to criticize Literotica openly. That being said, I've also openly supported and praised some things that the website does but of course that gets lost in the cacophony of praises, the ones you can't seem to hear.

b) My reaction in this thread was prompted by the fact that there is a subreddit where Laurel or Manu or someone in their name is a moderator. I've seen a few of their several-days-old posts there and it pissed me off because it has been many months since they posted anything in AH. Years in Laurel's case probably. It feels like a poke in the eye to post and respond there and be completely deaf to anything we post in AH. Now, I've seen people claiming that the subreddit is a very low-traffic one, and okay, maybe it is so, but in these circumstances, its existence and their activity there, however small it is, feels hypocritical and it rubs me the wrong way.

The site is imperfect. Who gives a shit? It's run by two people, and you have NO idea whatsoever what their limitations are in terms of time or resources to make things better.

Now now... We've already concluded that nobody here is in the know about how the website is being run and by how many people. No one knows shit. Yet you rush to point out that I have no idea, a thing which I admitted many times already, while at the same time making claims that the website is run by two people. Simon, you naughty boy, you are in the know!

 

[SimonDoom]

a) The website doesn't give a shit about the needs of authors. Absolutely zero fucks given.

I think this is a baseless, bullshit thing to say. You have no idea what you are talking about. You don't know what they think, you don't know what their circumstances are, and you don't know how or why they make the decisions they do. You know NOTHING.

There are plenty of constructive ways to make criticisms of the way the site does things and to recommend positive changes. You choose, instead, to attack the good faith and motives of the site owners. I think it's a bullshit thing to do. You have NO idea what you are talking about.

I don't either, but my default position is to defer judgment in the absence of evidence and your default is to assume the worst of others.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I think this is a baseless, bullshit thing to say. You have no idea what you are talking about. You don't know what they think, you don't know what their circumstances are, and you don't know how or why they make the decisions they do. You know NOTHING.

There are plenty of constructive ways to make criticisms of the way the site does things and to recommend positive changes. You choose, instead, to attack the good faith and motives of the site owners. I think it's a bullshit thing to do. You have NO idea what you are talking about.

I don't either, but my default position is to defer judgment in the absence of evidence and your default is to assume the worst of others.

This raw anger that seeps from every post of yours in this thread pretty much proves the point I've been making about people lashing out emotionally when they see the website being criticized. Even though I've been mocked in this thread, and was targeted with multiple insinuations, some of which I never addressed for my own reasons, I've kept my tone civil. You can say what you want about the quality of my arguments but I have been civil with everyone here, always.
The funny bit is that I never expected the emotional lashing out from you of all people. Oh well.

 

[SimonDoom]

This raw anger that seeps from every post of yours in this thread pretty much proves the point I've been making about people lashing out emotionally when they see the website being criticized. Even though I've been mocked in this thread, and was targeted with multiple insinuations, some of which I never addressed for my own reasons, I've kept my tone civil. You can say what you want about the quality of my arguments but I have been civil with everyone here, always.
The funny bit is that I never expected the emotional lashing out from you of all people. Oh well.

"Raw anger." Please. My attitude about stuff that happens on this Site, on a bad day, rises to the level of "mildly irked." That's about it.

YOU are the one who, without evidence, confidently says that the site owners don't give two fucks about the needs of authors. That sounds like raw anger to me. I think that's unfair and unjustified.

They've been doing this for 25 years. From everything I can see, it's an extremely labor-intensive enterprise. I get the sense that they care a great deal about the Site. It seems very unlikely to me that they don't give a fuck about the authors. That seems like an uncharitable and unwarranted interpretation of their motives.

My dander gets up (not that much, but a little) because I just don't understand why you keep going on the attack against the Site owners. You don't have any basis for it. Criticize the Site's features all you want and recommend changes. But when you say confidently that they "don't give a fuck" my response is a) you have no basis for saying it, and b) it's pointlessly mean and nasty. Why do that? Why not just be constructive in your proposals for changes? Isn't that the kind and adult thing to do?

 

[Britva415]

That sounds like raw anger to me

It also sounds "uncivil," don't it.

Just... not toward other authors, so I guess that makes it "not ironic."

 

[lovecraft68]

So...

You're an advertiser?

I'm one of the authors-as are you-that are the reason they secure any advertising.

 

[lovecraft68]

This raw anger that seeps from every post of yours in this thread pretty much proves the point I've been making about people lashing out emotionally when they see the website being criticized. Even though I've been mocked in this thread, and was targeted with multiple insinuations, some of which I never addressed for my own reasons, I've kept my tone civil. You can say what you want about the quality of my arguments but I have been civil with everyone here, always.
The funny bit is that I never expected the emotional lashing out from you of all people. Oh well.

Really? Maybe I read him differently, because he's one the nastier sorts on the forum, he just tries to be subtle about it.

People here become very tribal, and I don't understand why they don't see that-at least for me-the reason I'll bitch is two fold. One, when its a rule thing I get tired of this weird game that they can do as they want, but try to pretend they have these things they then don't care about.

But as far as site operation, its frustration that this site could be made so much better, and more lucrative, with more effort. I fall under one of those types that if I don't care about it, I don't say anything. Their 'yeah whatever, leave if you don't like it attitude is the exact one some here have mimicked.

Best thing that could ever happen is the site getting serious competition and forcing them to try and upgrade some things here.

Then again, I don't know their age, and its been 25 years so anything can be a grind after that many years.

 

[Bramblethorn]

b) My reaction in this thread was prompted by the fact that there is a subreddit where Laurel or Manu or someone in their name is a moderator. I've seen a few of their several-days-old posts there and it pissed me off because it has been many months since they posted anything in AH. Years in Laurel's case probably.

Once again, you're playing fast and loose with the facts.

Manu has posted in AH about forty times in the last year, most recently on September 26th. Most of his posts have been discussing new features (and accompanying bugs), including Story Games, curated lists, author profile updates, and the "support the author" feature; some of those are things that are of interest to quite a few authors here.

Laurel's most recent post in AH was on September 27th, announcing the Halloween contest. She's posted about in AH about a dozen times in the last year; most of those have been contest announcements etc. but she did also respond directly to a user query.

Should they be more active here? Should they be focussing on the topics that are worthy of your notice rather than the ones you're pretending don't exist? That's a matter of opinion. But getting mad at them about bullshit that exists only in your head makes you this dude:

 

[PennameWombat]

Just FWIW... in the last couple of days, 578 stories have gone live. Those were submitted by 271 unique authors, the highest number is that three different authors submitted four stories each, 187 submitted a single story.

A quick scan shows only one author name, silkstockingslover, with whom I'm familiar (and no, I only know the name through stories, have never directly interacted.) And no others that stick in my mind as ever having appeared in AH, although this is by no means exhaustive. And this is only a two day window from the new stories list.

In other words, and I've posted this subject before, interacting with AH is definitely not something that any sort of majority of authors on this site seem to care about. We're a self-selected group that hangs out here, and seemingly but a fraction of the total active author base on the site.

Draw any conclusions you feel like. But claiming any opinion any of us post here is a "majority" opinion among LitE authors is ludicrous.

I'm not including the list here in the post, because I'm too lazy to bother formatting a table.

 

[RejectReality]

Just FWIW... in the last couple of days, 578 stories have gone live. Those were submitted by 271 unique authors, the highest number is that three different authors submitted four stories each, 187 submitted a single story.

A quick scan shows only one author name, silkstockingslover, with whom I'm familiar (and no, I only know the name through stories, have never directly interacted.) And no others that stick in my mind as ever having appeared in AH, although this is by no means exhaustive. And this is only a two day window from the new stories list.

In other words, and I've posted this subject before, interacting with AH is definitely not something that any sort of majority of authors on this site seem to care about. We're a self-selected group that hangs out here, and seemingly but a fraction of the total active author base on the site.

Draw any conclusions you feel like. But claiming any opinion any of us post here is a "majority" opinion among LitE authors is ludicrous.

I'm not including the list here in the post, because I'm too lazy to bother formatting a table.

Wouldn't do you any good anyway, the table tags are still in the documentation, but haven't worked since the forum software was updated.

 

[PennameWombat]

Wouldn't do you any good anyway, the table tags are still in the documentation, but haven't worked since the forum software was updated.

Ah, yeah. It was in the back of my mind that tables had gone bye bye, but I was in a bit of a hurry to get that post done before I ran off to an appointment and my brain didn't quite dredge that up.

 

[jaF0]

...

 

[AwkwardlySet]

People here become very tribal, and I don't understand why they don't see that-at least for me-the reason I'll bitch is two fold. One, when its a rule thing I get tired of this weird game that they can do as they want, but try to pretend they have these things they then don't care about.

There's definitely tribalism here. But what I've seen in this thread seems like children lashing out when someone is criticizing their parents, even if those parents don't seem to care much about them. You can see how people focus on my motives for posting rather than what I am actually saying, how they nitpick at every word but ignore the context. There is no discussion to be had here, partly due to my droning about these things repeatedly and failing to engage almost anyone in a proper discussion. I'm like the guy from Einstein's famous line, trying to do the same thing for the hundredth time and expecting a different result.

Since after all the angry posts, Simon finally asked sensibly about "proof" for my claim that Lit doesn't care at all about authors' needs, at first, I was gonna make a detailed list of reasons and past examples why I believe it to be so but I am changing my mind. Its substance would have been ignored completely and its form would have been nitpicked about some minor things and formulations, same as before.

But fuck it, let's just throw one bone. Manu's thread, story cards feedback. A gazillion of people had asked (among other things) for word-count to appear on story cards. Almost every single person in that thread voiced support for that one simple statistic to show on the story cards. Not only it didn't appear (and it probably never will) but Manu didn't even deign that request worthy of an answer as far as I remember. There was no "We will implement it in the near future" or "We can't implement it because of this and that". There was no reply whatsoever to repeated requests even if Manu kept replying to other technical questions.
This one example doesn't mean so much by itself but when you look at the whole picture, it's filled with such examples. As I said, I am not going to go through them again, you either see what I see or you don't see it. It's all fine either way.