Average in Bed- a research question

[sophia jane]

I think we've gone way past average into bad....my bit about enthusiam was distinctly aimed at average, although it certainly applies to bad as well...

the general point being that you can be skilled and practised at something and still be only average if you do it without passion...

This is very true, and I think that's probably where my characters will go (the no passion bit).
I don't want it to be bad because that's too easy; my point in the story is that the man makes a choice between two women, not because one is horrible and the other terrific. I want the differences between the two to be more subtle (hence the average sex).

 

[Aurora Black]

Passion is the essential ingredient for earth-shattering sex.

 

[Kev H]

I would be shocked if this wasn't simply a repeat of what others have told you, but I wanted to give you an opinion that wasn't based on reading other responces (and just saying "yea I agree with so-and-so).

I can sum sex up into one important point. It's all about focus - on how focused on your lover that you are. The best sex is when your world is consumed by that other person, and you will do anything for them. A woman who is distracted by her self-absorption or even her insecurities is less attractive. I crave reactions from my lover that let me know she is working toward her ultimate experience. And I try with all my efforts to return that. It's important to run through the range of all 5 senses, and tailor everything toward that other person.

So, anything less is not perfect sex, and anything that makes me think she isn't into it is not even good sex (I mean, how the fuck can you take the joys of sex for granted). In the recent experiences, I have learned to back away, back to the teasing mode if sex becomes less than fresh. Nothing like teasing and no sex for a while to make the next encounter sizzle with pasison (perhaps because it helps regain perspective).

If you want to shock the reader with how bad she is, have her yawn.

 

[Guest]

If you want to shock the reader with how bad she is, have her yawn.

Or have her call him by the wrong name.

the general point being that you can be skilled and practised at something and still be only average if you do it without passion...

That is true of anything you do.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Aside question: If the woman is visibly not into it (yawning, unresponsive, "dead fuck"), which in turn will make the sex suck for you, why keep having sex this night?

In my mind, if one party is getting nothing out of an encounter and the other knows this will severly hurt their enjoyment of the enocunter, then it's time to stop and try something else, maybe just doing foreplay until orgasm or figuring the evening is a wash. Of course it may just be because my philosophy is if my partner isn't enjoying any act I'm doing I stop immediately because I get most of my pleasure from pleasing my partner.

I just wonder what the take of others are as "dead fucks" are listed as the number one complaint.


Back on topic: Passion seems good, but it might be focus and trust that're more important. I know for example that my SO had a partner who was passionate, but untrustworthy, unskilled, and entirely focused on their own pleasure. They didn't give her as many orgasms or as high quality orgasms as another partner who was more clinical, but worked on building trust and was intensely focused on riding my SO's passions and giving my SO great orgasms.

Passion can definitely aid in increasing horniness, making inventiveness less important and a million other things, but you still need focus on mutual pleasure, trust, and knowledge of the other person to make it work well in my opinion.

 

[Aurora Black]

*sigh*

 

[Belegon]

(passion - skill) = similar results = (skill - passion)

one or the other is not enough to achieve spectacular, but only one might achieve average....

 

[Pure]

i think the man wants the 'passion', by which I mean desire, arousal, climax;**

this is a primary igniter of his own 'passion'/arousal. although it's a cliche in porn, the dick hardness is a good indicator;

AND he wants it attributable (to be able to see it as) him as an individual and his technique, but not necessarily 'deliberate effort.'

==
{{I think that last point, running in the other direction, is important for the present day woman who prides herself on her sex skill: she wants to see something attributable to her; not just the cum that hits the ceiling, but that does so because of her and her technique.}}
====

Returning to the above points, they have as consequence that if the man is with an experienced, outwardly confident 'sex bomb' who show all the right things, she may unwittingly raise the comparison question and the question-- is she like this with most men. Again, as the joke goes, the man wants a monkey in bed, BUT particularly or only with him (according to his view).



----
The so-so cases are not always easy to analyze, as in the Seinfeld episode last night, where George, with a woman, find she had a doll, positioned, looking at them in bed-- and the face is a dead ringer for his mother's!
But one would expect his hardness would be an indicator that something isn't working.

It's a running joke, and probably true of both genders: sometimes a party, if not a perfectionist generally, has some odd 'deal breaker' or 'turn off' which is going to kill everything, even though this desire, passion etc. is being manifest in the partner: for example if she's beautiful, passionate, etc, but has garlic on her breath.

----
** Note: from which it follows, that it is apparently true that all of these can be faked, that the role play, if it can include wetness, is not detectable, at least by most of men.

===
PS: Anyone seen the fine movie about the man with the stunningly gorgeous wife (supermodel looks), who takes up with his 'average' sec'y: Trop belle pour toi, ("Too beautiful for you")

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

This is very true, and I think that's probably where my characters will go (the no passion bit).
I don't want it to be bad because that's too easy; my point in the story is that the man makes a choice between two women, not because one is horrible and the other terrific. I want the differences between the two to be more subtle (hence the average sex).

That's a good idea, because it shouldn't be TOO easy of a choice. A dilemma is more interesting.

About the "teasing" thing, I guess that's a personal fetish. It's just not something that spices things up for me.

And, AB, don't sweat it on the occasional "dead fuck" thing. It's when a girl is ALWAYS a "dead fuck" that issues come up. Of course, if it is the first impression....well, that's just probably for the best. It means that neither of you are really into each other, at least physically (if not emotionally). As far as the stories are concerned, I haven't read them, but if they are contest-winners, I think that speaks volumes.

Of course, trust is a factor, as are passion and skill. Sex is not something that is driven solely by ANY factor (well, not usually). I think that we can all agree that it is better when mutually pleasurable. I think that we can all agree that having a sex partner, whether casual or long-term, who is more into pleasing you than seeing his or her own reflection helps. I think that we can also agree that the expectations for casual sex are fewer, though not necessarily lower, if you catch that distinction.

It has been rather enlightening to see all of your ideas, although I think that Blacksnake's remark summed it up best, "Fuck me back as hard as I fuck you." That was a gem. I loved it.

 

[shereads]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and remind the group that what people say in public and practice in private are rarely the same thing.



Proposed: Everyone's perfect lover is the person who makes us feel like the perfect lover.

 

[Guest]

Blacksnake's remark summed it up best, "Fuck me back as hard as I fuck you."

The Golden Rule of sex as it were.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and remind the group that what people say in public and practice in private are rarely the same thing.



Proposed: Everyone's perfect lover is the person who makes us feel like the perfect lover.

Fishing for complements She? I told you, you were great!

 

[lil_elvis]

Well, you know things aren't going well if she answers the phone while you're {whatever, fill in the blank}

 

[Liar]

Aside question: If the woman is visibly not into it (yawning, unresponsive, "dead fuck"), which in turn will make the sex suck for you, why keep having sex this night?

Um... I wouldn't?


And for the rest of what you said. Yes. I think attention beats passion. They're both good things, but I'd rather have the former. But I also think that intent beats content. I'd rather have (and have a girl with) the most ambition to exchange pleasure than the best skills.



A sexual relationship is not about getting off. I can do that on my own.

 

[shereads]

The Golden Rule of sex as it were.



Fishing for complements She? I told you, you were great!

Yes, because I was able to balance your beer on my head so you could keep one hand free for the TV remote.

 

[Guest]

Yes, because I was able to balance your beer on my head so you could keep one hand free for the TV remote.

You've been dating too many Floridians.

The rest of us balance Jack Daniel's.

Well, you know things aren't going well if she answers the phone while you're {whatever, fill in the blank}

Actually happened to me once. the answering machine was in the next room and turned up. Some ex-jerk left three messages in a row. "Pickup, I know you're there." So she picked up the bedside phone (she was on top). As she was telling him to get lost, I made her gasp in a way it was clear to him she wasn't alone at midnight.

He never called her again.

 

[gauchecritic]

average sex can probably be summed up in one word: anticipation.

Not the anticipation of having sex at some point later but knowing what is coming next.

One partner knows that the other partner really enjoys having their nipple bitten. But the problem is, that the other knows that that point arrives a very short time after digital penetration and a vague flickering of thumb over clit, and let's face it, there are a limited number of variations or jump off points before one partner goes for what used to be the other partner's favourite thing.

There are only so many ways that one can vary sex before repeating one's actions.

Then there's expectation. What kind of sex one wants. Loving sex. Sensual sex. Hard driven animal lust. A quick deliberate orgasm. A dreamy floating away adrift on a sea of orgasm. One orgasm after another. Screaming. Crying. Whimpering.

Matching moods is a very difficult operation, orgasmic sex is easy by comparison.

 

[sophia jane]

One orgasm after another. Screaming. Crying. Whimpering.

Damn.

 

[shereads]

Then there's expectation. What kind of sex one wants. Loving sex. Sensual sex. Hard driven animal lust. A quick deliberate orgasm. A dreamy floating away adrift on a sea of orgasm. One orgasm after another. Screaming. Crying. Whimpering.

Don't forget sneezing. Sneezing makes it special.

 

[shereads]

average sex can probably be summed up in one word: anticipation.

Not the anticipation of having sex at some point later but knowing what is coming next.

One partner knows that the other partner really enjoys having their nipple bitten. But the problem is, that the other knows that that point arrives a very short time after digital penetration and a vague flickering of thumb over clit, and let's face it, there are a limited number of variations or jump off points before one partner goes for what used to be the other partner's favourite thing.

You're right, of course. Great sex, repeated the same way time and again, is dull sex.

Edited to ask: So why do you suppose there are people who don't like to vary the routine?

 

[impressive]

Edited to ask: So why do you suppose there are people who don't like to vary the routine?

Conservatives don't like change.

 

[gauchecritic]

You're right, of course. Great sex, repeated the same way time and again, is dull sex.

Edited to ask: So why do you suppose there are people who don't like to vary the routine?

They stick with what works, even if it doesn't work any more.

 

[Kev H]

They stick with what works, even if it doesn't work any more.

'Tis a sad but true statement of typical tendancy.

Earth-shattering sex is (and should be) special, as in it can't happen all the time. But I definately think there are many creative ways to get across average sex - even having fun with the completely different kinds of average sex ("Gee, I can't decide who I like more: Brenda with her great blows and horrible sex, or Gina with her love of nasty sex and use of too much teeth").

 

[elsol]

Average sex:Men
Bad chocolate:women

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[3113]

A "Dead Fuck" tends to be a turn-off for most men; if a woman acts like the man doesn't exist during sex, fucking becomes more work than masturbation for about the same amount of satisfaction.

If a woman is "scornfull and asks things like "is it in yet," most men would find sex with her less than completely satisfying.

However, those are examples of "bad sex" and not "average sex."

Examples of passive aggressiveness, I think

Dead fucks may be #1 on every guy's list of bad sex--but it's #1 on every girl's list of passive aggressive ways to get a point across. Unfortunately...it doesn't work. And so the relationship drags on for weeks with this bad sex as a bad way of one party trying to tell the other party that things aren't working out.

Remember girls, men are not mind-readers.

 

[3113]

Edited to ask: So why do you suppose there are people who don't like to vary the routine?

There might actually be several reasons for this. We're talking about a collection of nerves that varies person for person. About sensitivities that vary, person for person. So, one person goes wild with anal, while another gets instantly turned off by it. Toss into this the other partner who has their own sensitivities, and may go crazy if you bite them, but feel nothing if you brush them with a feather.

Now here's the ticky part. We're each in our own heads. And when we try to imagine what the other person is feeling--what might feel good to them...we tend to think of what feels good to us. So, we brush them with a feather. Um...but this does nothing. Meanwhile, they finger our ass. But this does nothing. Let's also toss in an added problem if it's male/female--and the guy doesn't know what it feels like to have a clit stimulated and a woman doesn't know what it's like to have balls licked. To make it even worse...most people don't have good imaginations.

So. Our only recourse is to communicate our desires. To say, "Touch me there!" or moan/scream/writhe, whatever. Volia! It works. Now the one person may not understand why the biting works--because it would never work on them. And the other person might not understand the ass thing, because it would never work on them. But they do it to each other. They can't quite imagine what it's like for the other person...but they can get turned on that they're at least turning the other person on, right?

Given this, I think it's a little clearer why a lot of people keep doing the same thing rather than experiment. It was hard enough figuring out what worked in the first place--making sure that they could bring their partner to orgasm. Trying to find more things that work, well, takes work. And people are lazy and unimagnative...and selfish in bed.

And then there's the fact that with some people...other things just don't work. There are people who are very limited. Take that infamous G-spot thread on this site. For most women it works. Rub the G-spot hard and they have multiple orgasms. But there are women for which it does nothing. We're not all flexable. We're not all wired the same way. We're not all able to deep-throat a big cock. A short woman with a large husband might find certain positions impossible or uncomfortable. The "other things" which might work might not be possible or easy.

Frankly, I'm kinda amazed that human beings manage to satisfy each other at all, let alone take each other to orgasmic heights.