BDSM != Disrespect: help explaining that to hubby

[JMohegan]

Perhaps we need cut hubby some slack. Often times we see experience the looking glass image in our dealings with others. We see ourselves in others and at times don't like what we see. The next step is to project our feelings elsewhere, usually onto the one we see our self in. In short hubby is demeaned by the thought of spanking an adult woman and rather than face this in himself he has projected the feelings onto his wife.

Or maybe hubby is projecting in the sense of imagining that dropping his shorts and bending over a desk or lap to be whacked would be an embarrassing and relatively undignified thing for *him* to do.

Leaving aside some male submissives or switches and a few Tops trying to make a point, I don't know any guys who would think otherwise.

 

[myinnerslut]

[hijack]

In one discussion in which she requested detailed instructions for preparing and serving dinner, she was trying was explain her urge for elaborate rules & rituals and said something almost identical to your line that I've colored red.

My response was: "My wish is that you make and serve dinner the way you've always made and served dinner. Have it ready at 7, put it on the table, and then we'll sit down and eat while we discuss the news of the day."

That wasn't the response she was looking for and yet, in a big picture kind of a way, I was doing exactly what she had asked me to do.

A looks at things the same way you to, for example when it comes to honorifics. i looked at calling him Sir as a show or respect, show of dedication, show of love and devotion, etc etc. when he told me not to, i didnt quite understand untill he responded something very similair to what you said. i was showing him respect,dedication, love, and devotion by calling him what he wished to be called, and even though it wasnt what i expected, in the end it was what i wanted to do. [/hijack]

 

[JMohegan]

[hijack]


A looks at things the same way you to, for example when it comes to honorifics. i looked at calling him Sir as a show or respect, show of dedication, show of love and devotion, etc etc. when he told me not to, i didnt quite understand untill he responded something very similair to what you said. i was showing him respect,dedication, love, and devotion by calling him what he wished to be called, and even though it wasnt what i expected, in the end it was what i wanted to do. [/hijack]

Thank you for this post, MIS. I actually don't see it as a hijack, because you are highlighting the exact point I was trying to make.

This might not be relevant to a discussion of spanking as erotic sensation play, but it is directly relevant to Mazuri's motivation, as expressed in post 10 above.

 

[Mazuri]

JMohegan and myinnerslut, thank you both for your comments. It's definitely food for thought and gives me greater motivation to explore the "why" I want to try this Again, I'd never make him do something he doesn't want/like, but I'm always looking for better ways to express myself concerning what I want/might like

 

[JMohegan]

JMohegan and myinnerslut, thank you both for your comments.

Quite welcome. Best of luck to you, Mazuri.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

That my dear is what the looking glass image is all about.

Or maybe hubby is projecting in the sense of imagining that dropping his shorts and bending over a desk or lap to be whacked would be an embarrassing and relatively undignified thing for *him* to do.

Leaving aside some male submissives or switches and a few Tops trying to make a point, I don't know any guys who would think otherwise.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Well maybe...just maybe, her husband, like many, was raised with the notion over the last 50 years that:

1. hitting girls and women is wrong.
2. That women do not wish to be treated as subservant or submissive but as equals
3. And that it is not ok to sexualy objectify women.

...

I can SOOOO identify with this. Having grown up in the 60's in a household with a very liberal, even feminist mother, and a socially moderate father, that is exactly the kind of social indoctrination I received...

The first time I had to actually FIGHT a woman when I was a cop I nearly got my partner shot because I couldn't bring myself to hit her. The indoctrination was that strong. (She had managed to get my partners pistol out of the holster while he was struggling with her husband. I was able to keep the gun elevated and pointed away from myself or my partner, btw, but dayum that was a scarey episode!).

Other than the one gal in college (who I role-played games with on a regular basis and so was able to approach the "rough stuff" from the safe emotional perspective that it was just an act) I couldn't reconcile my personal needs and desires with the societal programming I received, until well into my thirties.

I definitely can understand if hubby's reluctance is coming from this place. It requires patience, education, communication, patience and work to overcome the programming.

By educating yourself and seeking ways to educate your husband and communicate with him, I can forsee the two of you working through this together. Best of luck to you both, Mazuri!

 

[RJMasters]

I can SOOOO identify with this. Having grown up in the 60's in a household with a very liberal, even feminist mother, and a socially moderate father, that is exactly the kind of social indoctrination I received...

The first time I had to actually FIGHT a woman when I was a cop I nearly got my partner shot because I couldn't bring myself to hit her. The indoctrination was that strong. (She had managed to get my partners pistol out of the holster while he was struggling with her husband. I was able to keep the gun elevated and pointed away from myself or my partner, btw, but dayum that was a scarey episode!).

Other than the one gal in college (who I role-played games with on a regular basis and so was able to approach the "rough stuff" from the safe emotional perspective that it was just an act) I couldn't reconcile my personal needs and desires with the societal programming I received, until well into my thirties.

I definitely can understand if hubby's reluctance is coming from this place. It requires patience, education, communication, patience and work to overcome the programming.

By educating yourself and seeking ways to educate your husband and communicate with him, I can forsee the two of you working through this together. Best of luck to you both, Mazuri!

EG from the 3 point line. He shoots. Nothing but net...swish!

 

[northwoods_sub]

This may be coming out of left field but maybe he is afraid of losing control of his emotions if he hits you?
In a previous marriage I had asked my husband to play rough with me (rough sex, spanking, forcing, etc) and he agreed to try it with me. Things went pretty well I thought through the scene, I was literally terrified because he got so into it but it was amazing as well. The next morning he looked at me and told me that he could never do that again with me because he was so afraid of letting his anger get away from him that he would actually hurt me and not in a good way.
It took a lot of courage for him to tell me that and to not just take advantage of the situation.
Just thought I would give a different perspective to the whole conversation.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Maybe ..

he is just vanilla to the core and can't go there - like he isn't wired up for it.

If that's the case, you guys will have a lot of discussing to do. I hope it works out for you.

 

[Marquis]

http://www.xeromag.com/fvbdniceguy.html

 

[Quint]

...........

 

[Marquis]

All in a day's work, sweetcheeks.

 

[myinnerslut]

JMohegan and myinnerslut, thank you both for your comments. It's definitely food for thought and gives me greater motivation to explore the "why" I want to try this Again, I'd never make him do something he doesn't want/like, but I'm always looking for better ways to express myself concerning what I want/might like

you are very welcome. glad to help.

 

[Mazuri]

http://www.xeromag.com/fvbdniceguy.html

Yup...he's on exercise right now, but that link is in his email in-box I tried to do a bit of homework He's agreed to go over a checklist just so we can discover where we veer off sharply in interests from each other and where we both are looking to explore further.

I'm not sure about his fear of losing control of his emotions, but I'll definitely bring it up somehow when we sit down to hash things out.

Thanks again

 

[RJMasters]

Dude. Seriously. Valium. I just said I thought it was bullshit. You're the one who took it and ran with it. For someone who claims to believe women are equals, you sure did get pissy awfully quick when the "I know what's best for you" fallacy was pointed out. Hit close to home or something? Geez.

Wouldn't it piss you off if someone acted like they knew what was best for you, even if you knew better? I never once said that she should tell her husband he was acting like an ass. I just said that for someone who's so worried about "demeaning" her, he's doing a damn good job of it already with the attitude he has. Hi, Pot? Meet Kettle. Why should her desire for something be subject to his deciding whether it's good for her or not?

Thank God the men I've chosen to be in relationships with are the kind of men--even the dominant ones--who respect my brain and my judgment and expect me to use them at all times. The biggest reaction I've ever gotten out of talking about the kinds of things I wanted to do was something like this:

I: I think I'd like to try xyz.
He: Cool. You sure?
I: Yep.
He: Ok.

Seriously. Chill. If I stumbled over some of YOUR insecurities about whether or not a woman has sense enough to make her own decisions, I apologize, but I can't imagine how someone can't see the irony in her husband's remarks. I'm not going to be all Sally Subbie about it, either, so excuse the hell out of me.

Mazuri, I'm sorry about the turn this thread has taken. You have received some good advice.

The name's not Dude, Guy or Bud. Its RJ or Rich. I didn't get pissy, I used a bit of sarcasm to simply pointed out the ridiculiousness of taking on the persepctive you espoused when trying to resolve conflict within the given situation. You're the one who said it was a hot button issue, so when it comes to chilling, perhaps you should take your own advice. And you didn't stumble over any of my insecurities. I am sure you would like to think that because then you would have some excuse for why you stumbled.

In answer to your qustion.

"Why should her desire for something be subject to his deciding whether it's good for her or not?"


Because what she is asking for involves him on a personal and intimate nature. The fact that they are in a relationship together and these are her desires that she would like for him to share and particpate in is a huge reason why his views and opinions matter in this situation. Especially when she is asking him to be the agressor of such things which require not only his willing particpation, but demand that he take the initiative role as well.

Everyone has the right to their own feelings and thoughts about someting, but when those things include others on some level, it matters. He says these things are degrading to her. She says they are not. So who is degrading who here? Is she degrading him because she is telling him he shouldn't think they are degrading? Or is he degrading her by telling her she should think they are?

I say neither are being degrading but simply trying to work together through something they have differening opinions on and are seeking to influence each other's thinking, through a colaberate effort of mutal understanding. In other words it is perfectly ok for her to try and share her own feelings and thoughts about these things with him in hopes that he will understand them better and because he loves her will want to pursue these things too. In fact, that is kinda of the whole purpose of this thread isn't it? to seek out advice and help from others in how to go about sharing and communicating these things in an effective way.

The solution to Mazuri's problem involved persepctive, atititude and consent. She is perfectly right in having her own thoughts and feelings regarding these things on her own because she doesn't need her husband to do that, but she does need her husband if these things are going to become a part of their future relationship. She will need to change his persepctive of these things, she will seek to change his attitude concerning these things, and of course she will need his consent for these things. Someow taking the position of her thinking her husband is degrading her, just doesn't seem to be the best apporach in doing that, now does it?

 

[sister76]

There have been a lot of very detailed responses so far, but I wonder if you could just try spanking (or whatever else you like to do) just as a brief fun thing to start out with and then go from there. Jumping into something major is weird for anyone, but a couple of spanks to start out with probably wouldn't be too hard to handle. It seems to me that after doing it a little bit at a time that you would find out soon if you are both comfortable with it.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Once again...you rock.

http://www.xeromag.com/fvbdniceguy.html

 

[Mazuri]

sister76, that's kinda what I've relied on, but, as I know we're going to have a more indepth discussion about likes, dislikes, fantasies, and potential fun in the future, I came seeking and have received the excellent advice I expected He has given a single fairly light swat and has been showered with ooohs and aaahs and a lot of appreciation and gratitude for stepping outside what he has said was his comfort zone in an effort to please me. He's seen that one swat hasn't reduced me to a quivering pile of insecure and demeaning jelly nor has he turned into some evil critter that stalks the night. So I consider it a definite advance

We may never do more than that one or the occasional sneaky swat. If so, well...it's still a gift from him to me as he's not comfy doing it and yet tries anyway. He's appreciative of his rewards as well

 

[BiBunny]

The name's not Dude, Guy or Bud. Its RJ or Rich. I didn't get pissy, I used a bit of sarcasm to simply pointed out the ridiculiousness of taking on the persepctive you espoused when trying to resolve conflict within the given situation. You're the one who said it was a hot button issue, so when it comes to chilling, perhaps you should take your own advice. And you didn't stumble over any of my insecurities. I am sure you would like to think that because then you would have some excuse for why you stumbled.

In answer to your qustion.

"Why should her desire for something be subject to his deciding whether it's good for her or not?"


Because what she is asking for involves him on a personal and intimate nature. The fact that they are in a relationship together and these are her desires that she would like for him to share and particpate in is a huge reason why his views and opinions matter in this situation. Especially when she is asking him to be the agressor of such things which require not only his willing particpation, but demand that he take the initiative role as well.

Everyone has the right to their own feelings and thoughts about someting, but when those things include others on some level, it matters. He says these things are degrading to her. She says they are not. So who is degrading who here? Is she degrading him because she is telling him he shouldn't think they are degrading? Or is he degrading her by telling her she should think they are?

I say neither are being degrading but simply trying to work together through something they have differening opinions on and are seeking to influence each other's thinking, through a colaberate effort of mutal understanding. In other words it is perfectly ok for her to try and share her own feelings and thoughts about these things with him in hopes that he will understand them better and because he loves her will want to pursue these things too. In fact, that is kinda of the whole purpose of this thread isn't it? to seek out advice and help from others in how to go about sharing and communicating these things in an effective way.

The solution to Mazuri's problem involved persepctive, atititude and consent. She is perfectly right in having her own thoughts and feelings regarding these things on her own because she doesn't need her husband to do that, but she does need her husband if these things are going to become a part of their future relationship. She will need to change his persepctive of these things, she will seek to change his attitude concerning these things, and of course she will need his consent for these things. Someow taking the position of her thinking her husband is degrading her, just doesn't seem to be the best apporach in doing that, now does it?

Number one: You're missing my entire point. If you'd like to start another thread about it, fine, but you took a minor aside between gracie and me and went off on a whole 'nother tangent because it apparently offended your delicate sensibilities. I never once said that Mazuri should point out that her husband was being an ass. I said I noticed it. Period. Much like I'm noticing you're acting like an obtuse jackass right now just because you can.

Number two: More words do not equal more intelligence in a post. I have a hell of a time even figuring out what the hell you're trying to say with the long paragraphs and convoluted sentences.

Number three: If you would like to be treated respectfully, do the same. The "aww, shucks, ma'am" cowboy gentleman bullshit's not fooling anybody. Maybe if you spent less time humoring women--treating us "like" equals--and more time really respecting us--believing we ARE equals--, the hypocrisy wouldn't be so obvious. You may think you've got us all figured out, but I think you've a long way to go.

All righty. I'm done hijacking.

 

[graceanne]

Again, thanks to all for their replies.

BiBunny and graceanne, the only reason I didn't take the whole thing as patronizing and insulting is that he never said that I would find it demeaning or degrading, only that he never wanted to do anything that I might find so or that he may feel is such. Being that we've never tried it (other than that one light swat), we can neither of us say how we'll feel afterwards. We've had some rough patches, I suffer from both a self-esteem issue and mild (cyclic) depression. He has reason to worry that things may not go as planned and in doing so they may go poorly. I believe he's showed that he's willing to try from that one swat, out of the blue and unmentioned/asked for several weeks prior to his coming home. *grins* Or maybe I'm not a healthy feminist in that feeling patronized never crossed my mind *shrugs* But I don't mind the discussion, it still brings forward issues I've not considered

As for everyone else...again, thank you. I'll try to get two copies of the book recommended, shortly (one for him and one for me...he needs something to do while in Korea ). I've considered it for a while, but simply haven't yet.

We do go rather slowly on these things simply because I am not a very assertive person and all the even somewhat kinky explorations have been at my own instigation. He's very honest and open about what he absolutely will not do (and in a way that shows me it's the 'thing' and not me he's rejecting...that took us a while damn my insecurities) and he's never said he would absolutely not do this (or any of the other things on my to-do list) so I figure it will come along in due time. We've been married 16 years without his smacking my ass, I think I could survive a bit longer or even another 16 if he decided it's not for him

Hm. So it's possible he would like it if he realized that you don't find it demeaning? That's a good thing.

Frankly, I don't consider myself a feminist - but I have very negative conotations(sp?) of that word. I'm very touchy about my intelligence, though. Well, with people who're important to me. I could care less what other people think. Anyway! lol Obviously you'd know more about what your husband means, and the feelings behind it, than I would.

 

[RJMasters]

Number one: You're missing my entire point. If you'd like to start another thread about it, fine, but you took a minor aside between gracie and me and went off on a whole 'nother tangent because it apparently offended your delicate sensibilities. I never once said that Mazuri should point out that her husband was being an ass. I said I noticed it. Period. Much like I'm noticing you're acting like an obtuse jackass right now just because you can.

Number two: More words do not equal more intelligence in a post. I have a hell of a time even figuring out what the hell you're trying to say with the long paragraphs and convoluted sentences.

Number three: If you would like to be treated respectfully, do the same. The "aww, shucks, ma'am" cowboy gentleman bullshit's not fooling anybody. Maybe if you spent less time humoring women--treating us "like" equals--and more time really respecting us--believing we ARE equals--, the hypocrisy wouldn't be so obvious. You may think you've got us all figured out, but I think you've a long way to go.

All righty. I'm done hijacking.

If I would like to be treated respectfully, then I should treat others respectfully? hmm wow there's a concept. That happens to be how I treat people both men and women as a general rule, but in your case I will make an exception.

You see your not the type of person that I consider worthy of trying to earn their respect, nor do I desire or want it particualarly from you. And since that is out of the way, there is nothing which really compells me to care or give a rats ass what you think BiBunny.

You claim to be a switch and I can only hope that you are different in person than what you present of yourself online, because being proud of being a loud mouth arrogant bitch acting out in order to prove something to others or yourself is not what dominance is about. Its more about being self confident in who you are and doesn't require you to seek validation by bulling and pushing others around. I can look at the responses you have made to me here and it is clear to me that your self confidence is about as thin and as transparent as serand wrap.

If you knew anything about me at all, you would know that I have respect for those who have character and self confidence. as a dominant you have the mannerisms of a goat which is never a little 'aside" but can be found in just about every thread and post you make throughout the entire board on a constant basis. There is nothing about your dominant side that I respect or admire.

And when you say you are submissive BiBunny, I see you as someone who flounders as a whiney brat who again acts out for attention. None of which I find appealing or respect in anyway, shape, or form.

So wheather you are switching from being a...a loud mouth arrogant bitch acting out in order to prove something to others or yourself...or a...whiney brat who acts out for attention, there just isn't anything there that compels me to want, need or give any respect from/to you.

Now that that is clear, let me make a few other things clear to you. In this conversation there is only one of us who truly believes that men and women are equal and that would be me. All the things you have tried to say against me, about insecurities, delicate sensibilities, and now calling me an obtuse jackass, and who(in your words and judgements of me)...only humors women and doesn't believe women are equal to men....are nothing more to cover up, that the reverse is actually true. It is your insecurities, your delicate sensibilities, and you being the obtuse jackass and your inability to believe that a man is capable of believing that a woman is equal to man that fosters your mistrust of them.

The tatics you used to attack me are about as old as the Pot, meet Kettle phrase you use over and over. They only work against those men who feel guilty because there is some truth in them which that man doesn't want known and would rather fold and be bullied than stand up to scrutinization. But you see I am not one of them. I don't have any guilt because I know myself and know that I do respect women. There are some women I know who are beneath me, I know there are some women who are my equal, and I know there are some women who are better then me. The same is true for men, however what makes them above, equal or below me has nothing to do with thier sex as much as it has to do with the type of person they are.

So you see it has nothing to do with any precieved insecurities, or delicate sensibilities on my part as I am quite sure of myself and who I am and what I think and feel in regards to this. I also know that there are many women who would also say that I am very respectful and considerate of them.

You also need to learn how to read better and not just see what you want to see or hear what you want to hear....

"I never once said that Mazuri should point out that her husband was being an ass".

I never once said or claimed that you said that. Go back and quote it in any of the posts I made, the problem is you can't because I didn't say that but that hasn't stopped you from accusing me of saying it twice now. Must be nice to make things up in your own mind and believe they are true or factual.

"I have a hell of a time even figuring out what the hell you're trying to say with the long paragraphs and convoluted sentences."

I am sorry you have such a hard time figuring out what I type, perhaps that is due in part from your selective listing skills or that you comprehend things that only fit your view, so here is a summary to ensure that you understand this post.

I don't want or need your respect, nor do you display any qualities in which I respect or desire as a person. As a dominant you have the mannerisms of a goat, as a submiisive you are a whiney brat, both of which act out in order to get attention and non of which I find appealing in a person.

It wouldn't matter if you were male or female.

*points my middle finger downwards...and if that isn't clear enough for you then let me turn it up for you...Can you hear me now bitch?

 

[SubKekiLee]

Okay as I have said in another thread that everyone is entitled to thier opinion and thats okay but do we need to be rude and disbaraging and plain insultive? I think both of you have a point but this place isnt about insulting and being rude to one another.. Cant we all just get along??? I swear....

In Bunny's defense she is a sweet girl who has a heart of gold RJ and I dont think she is loud mouth arrogant bitch nor is she whiny. She is confidant and knows what she wants in life, she is a good person I wont let you attack her like that Rj. Just like if you and I were friends I wouldnt let someone attack you, for having your opinions. We are all human here and we all have emotions, opinions and feelings. You are entitled to your opinions but dont attack someone..

Honestly put.. Lets just all get along

Mazuri
I can imagine how you feel as MY So is like your husband feels it is degrading and even though I am asking for it , refuses to see my side things I would just say take it day by day and see what you can help him understand. I know it is from a very catholic, moral upbringing he feels this way which had made me seek the D/s relationship from someone else and I dont promote that but I do love MYD is a much different way than I do my SO... So I wish you all the luck

 

[intothewoods]

Dominate me, you studly researcher you.

Not through reading all the posts yet but this is the funniest thing I've ever read...or I'm tired.

 

[graceanne]

Not through reading all the posts yet but this is the funniest thing I've ever read...or I'm tired.

Why not both?