Being autistic, adhd and random stuff

[stickygirl]

Here's an interesting YT discussion - an autistic woman, who is a student of psychology only learned and accepted her autism when her daughter was diagnosed. I'm not familiar with the presenter but there were so many lightbulbs came on throughout. So affirming.

 

[stickygirl]

Woah, not often that I have an involuntary intake of breath, but I was watching a 3-part interview of Sir Anthony Hopkins by Stephen Colbert. In the first part he's talking about his childhood, of how he was labelled 'backward' at school and he was struggling in life. At the age of seven he struck on the idea of 'not responding' as a strategy. "Woah!" Are you fucking kidding me? I did the same thing after watching Seven of Nine in Voyager: she never got angry but had to learn how to be human, using logic as her sword and shield.

'Not responding' to the taunts of kids at school, because I spoke and moved like an awkward girl. Apparently I stood weird, held my hands weird, thought weird. Not responding gave me power, because I could infuriate the bullies - I made them look weak in front of their gang.

What a delight to discover another autie who'd discovered the same trick.

Anyone else have coping tricks as a kid?

 

[Statius]

Woah, not often that I have an involuntary intake of breath, but I was watching a 3-part interview of Sir Anthony Hopkins by Stephen Colbert. In the first part he's talking about his childhood, of how he was labelled 'backward' at school and he was struggling in life. At the age of seven he struck on the idea of 'not responding' as a strategy. "Woah!" Are you fucking kidding me? I did the same thing after watching Seven of Nine in Voyager: she never got angry but had to learn how to be human, using logic as her sword and shield.

'Not responding' to the taunts of kids at school, because I spoke and moved like an awkward girl. Apparently I stood weird, held my hands weird, thought weird. Not responding gave me power, because I could infuriate the bullies - I made them look weak in front of their gang.

What a delight to discover another autie who'd discovered the same trick.

Anyone else have coping tricks as a kid?

Sounds like passive resistance. And yes. I learned early on, with no idea why, that my brain worked differently, that my way of processing information and learning were different. My strategy was simple. We're done here and I'm moving on without you. I was around 11/12 before I figured it out though.

And unrelated, thank you @stickygirl for welcoming ADHD folks chime in here.

 

[Strixaluco]

I didn't have any clear point when I started using not responding - maybe because I've never done it consistently (haven't been able to) - but I remember using it already in primary school.

For me, figuring that my brain works differently happened slowly, sneakily. Maybe mostly via not wanting or appreciating the same things as others, and not being wanted in the circles. I was lucky so I had good support at home, so I didn't even have all the struggles that I might have had. And then I had a quick brain, and learned things fast.

 

[cw5523729]

"Can I eat your cockerel because I hate it"
I don't like to sound mean, but maybe the fox will get it.

Wow, just wow! I'm totally showing this post of yours to my chickens.

I'll let you know what they have to say.

 

[stickygirl]

I didn't have any clear point when I started using not responding - maybe because I've never done it consistently (haven't been able to) - but I remember using it already in primary school.

For me, figuring that my brain works differently happened slowly, sneakily. Maybe mostly via not wanting or appreciating the same things as others, and not being wanted in the circles. I was lucky so I had good support at home, so I didn't even have all the struggles that I might have had. And then I had a quick brain, and learned things fast.

I do recall studying 7of9 and admiring the way she controlled her emotions. I'd become tired, not so much by the bullying, but it's predictable, repetitive nature - it was boring. Not responding had a fascinating effect on the NTs - suddenly they were in the petri dish!

 

[AlexBailey]

My ADHD text question to an auti friend, negotiating our music jam time:

——————

Me:
“So I was thinking about meeting Sunday in the late morning instead of evening because I have so much happening on Monday that I won’t be able to focus on anything but getting ready for work the next day.”

Him:
“What time were you thinking?”

Me:
“11:00”

Him:
“I need to grocery shop after breakfast, which ends around 9:45. I never know how long that will take. Sometimes 30 minutes, sometimes an hour. I haven't made a list yet.“

——————

For some reason my wife thought this exchange was hilarious.

 

[goldytheGoldfish]

About half of autistic people have auditory processing disorder.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11620991/
https://hearinghealthfoundation.org/apd-demographics

 

[PMarky2]

My ADHD text question to an auti friend, negotiating our music jam time:

——————

Me:
“So I was thinking about meeting Sunday in the late morning instead of evening because I have so much happening on Monday that I won’t be able to focus on anything but getting ready for work the next day.”

Him:
“What time were you thinking?”

Me:
“11:00”

Him:
“I need to grocery shop after breakfast, which ends around 9:45. I never know how long that will take. Sometimes 30 minutes, sometimes an hour. I haven't made a list yet.“

——————

For some reason my wife thought this exchange was hilarious.

That sounds perfectly normal to me... but then...
One of my friends that I suspect is also ND has those sorts of conversations with me all the time.

 

[Bray123]

Woah, not often that I have an involuntary intake of breath, but I was watching a 3-part interview of Sir Anthony Hopkins by Stephen Colbert. In the first part he's talking about his childhood, of how he was labelled 'backward' at school and he was struggling in life. At the age of seven he struck on the idea of 'not responding' as a strategy. "Woah!" Are you fucking kidding me? I did the same thing after watching Seven of Nine in Voyager: she never got angry but had to learn how to be human, using logic as her sword and shield.

'Not responding' to the taunts of kids at school, because I spoke and moved like an awkward girl. Apparently I stood weird, held my hands weird, thought weird. Not responding gave me power, because I could infuriate the bullies - I made them look weak in front of their gang.

What a delight to discover another autie who'd discovered the same trick.

Anyone else have coping tricks as a kid?

LOL, that reminds me of my childhood. I found that 'no response' worked with teachers as well as playground yobs. They could make me stand in the corner, but they couldn't make me answer and my willpower was a lot stronger than theirs. They never labelled me as backward due to some psychiatrist finding that I had a high IQ and consequently I was placed in the year above in junior school. But dumb insolence or failing to engage, whatever label was placed on it absolutely worked.

 

[stickygirl]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11620991/
https://hearinghealthfoundation.org/apd-demographics

There's a lot to unpack in that. The first link was more useful but necessarily limited to children and offered a
'Lay Summary'
We followed a cohort of autistic children longitudinally at 3, 6, and 9 years of age and found that more than 70% of the children had caregiver-reported difficulty listening in noisy environments at all three ages. These auditory processing differences were associated with increased hyperactivity and agitation as well as difficulty with daily living skills, suggesting that auditory processing differences should be considered during routine clinical evaluations.

Do you struggle with auditory processing? I do to an extent and always have, though I never took it to be a signpost to autism.

 

[goldytheGoldfish]

There's a lot to unpack in that. The first link was more useful but necessarily limited to children and offered a
'Lay Summary'
We followed a cohort of autistic children longitudinally at 3, 6, and 9 years of age and found that more than 70% of the children had caregiver-reported difficulty listening in noisy environments at all three ages. These auditory processing differences were associated with increased hyperactivity and agitation as well as difficulty with daily living skills, suggesting that auditory processing differences should be considered during routine clinical evaluations.

Do you struggle with auditory processing? I do to an extent and always have, though I never took it to be a signpost to autism.

I'm not an expert on spectrum disorders and found the correlation with auditory processing surprising. The example I'd highlight is the one in the video about listening to public announcements reverberating through a train station. He's saying that even if someone's natural hearing is technically perfect, in that kind of environment, the way the information is processed by their brain is delayed or disorganized enough that any usable function is lost. Not that someone with APD is automatically incapable of passing a hearing test or having a conversation. And no, I don't have that problem myself.

About half of autistic people have auditory processing disorder. Me too.

If you need to describe it to anyone, this video can do it for you.

From the YouTube link:

it’s not just about being sensitive to noise. It’s about your brain struggling to decode and respond to sound in real time. In this video, I break down how this works, how it shows up in daily life, and why so many autistic people experience it (even if they’ve never heard the term).

 

[BillTheKatt90]

As I understand things, my symptoms are pretty mild and I likely would have been diagnosed as Asperger's as a younger man. My struggles:

(1) Actual interest of listener:

When I talk to anyone, I have to work hard and be extra careful to watch the listener's eyes and face. Looking people in the eye is difficult enough as an "autie." But I need to see whether the listener is listening because they are actually interested in what I am talking about or politely listening ("smile and nod") while waiting for me to finish my dissertation. I am in my 50s, and this may still be the most difficult social situation for me.

(2) Pronoun ambiguity:

A common conversation between me and my wife (and most other people):

Her: "I went to Ashley's house. She told me that we needed to sign up for that art class together."
Me: "Who is 'we' in that last sentence?"

A permutation of the above:

Her: "I found your lost earbud in your desk. It was dusty."
Me: "What is 'it'?"
Corollary question: "Did you want me to do something about the dust?"

This happens A LOT.

 

[stickygirl]

I'm not an expert on spectrum disorders and found the correlation with auditory processing surprising. The example I'd highlight is the one in the video about listening to public announcements reverberating through a train station. He's saying that even if someone's natural hearing is technically perfect, in that kind of environment, the way the information is processed by their brain is delayed or disorganized enough that any usable function is lost. Not that someone with APD is automatically incapable of passing a hearing test or having a conversation. And no, I don't have that problem myself.

From the YouTube link:

Maybe you've had the problem of trying to understand someone in a crowded bar? I had a go at working in a pub once but failed miserably, spending most of the evening on one foot leaning forward shouting 'Pardon'. It wasn't especially loud but my brain couldn't filter out all the background noise.
Same thing with the dramatic words in films - often whispered or spoken over background music - and I'm like wtf did they say?

 

[stickygirl]

As I understand things, my symptoms are pretty mild and I likely would have been diagnosed as Asperger's as a younger man. My struggles:
~snip~
(2) Pronoun ambiguity:

A common conversation between me and my wife (and most other people):

Her: "I went to Ashley's house. She told me that we needed to sign up for that art class together."
Me: "Who is 'we' in that last sentence?"

A permutation of the above:

Her: "I found your lost earbud in your desk. It was dusty."
Me: "What is 'it'?"
Corollary question: "Did you want me to do something about the dust?"

This happens A LOT.

That's interesting. Is the problem only with pronouns?

 

[BillTheKatt90]

That's interesting. Is the problem only with pronouns?

I think so. That's where I've noticed the problem most.

Between pronoun ambiguity and my need to be understood in context, my writing (which I do for a living) is often needlessly detailed. When I re-read things, I can usually cut the length of my work by upwards of 30%.

 

[Strixaluco]

(edit eh never mind, I guess what I asked was already discussed)

 

[Strixaluco]

Not that someone with APD is automatically incapable of passing a hearing test or having a conversation.

In fact, the hearing test may pass with flying colours... Mine resulted in excellent hearing. Even on the sensitive side. That doesn't helpful with the processing at all, though.

Noisy environments. Being even slightly tired. Not seeing the one talking. Etc etc.

 

[Deadbed1968]

View attachment 2573655

SO relatable

Eeek. I feel like that all of the time!

 

[PMarky2]

In fact, the hearing test may pass with flying colours... Mine resulted in excellent hearing. Even on the sensitive side. That doesn't helpful with the processing at all, though.

Noisy environments. Being even slightly tired. Not seeing the one talking. Etc etc.

My hearing is quite good, but my ability to make sense of things deteriorates swiftly with increasing background noise. I just cannot filter the crap out and hear what I want/need to hear. Lip-reading helps a little, but bring tired makes that more difficult. If you are walking away from me and there is background noise - forget about it. I also cannot hear phone conversations if there is background noise, so I leave the room of the radio or TV is on. My wife accused me of being secretive quite a few times before she finally twigged it is due to the fact I find it difficult to process out background noise.

 

[PMarky2]

LOL, that reminds me of my childhood. I found that 'no response' worked with teachers as well as playground yobs. They could make me stand in the corner, but they couldn't make me answer and my willpower was a lot stronger than theirs. They never labelled me as backward due to some psychiatrist finding that I had a high IQ and consequently I was placed in the year above in junior school. But dumb insolence or failing to engage, whatever label was placed on it absolutely worked.

Not responding was my weapon too. On occasion, though, I would thump a bully HARD. Strangely, I never got into serious trouble so perhaps I was doing what the teachers secretly wished they could do. My mum did have to school the education system a couple of times on how to get me to do something. If I found something uninteresting or unrewarding I'd ignore it - which included the standardized reading scheme. Mum got hauled in, questions were asked, and she eventually said, "Tell him he can read whatever he wants once he gets through the reading scheme, and he will get it done." She was correct, and I got the run of the library, even of material way above my grade level.

 

[stickygirl]

In fact, the hearing test may pass with flying colours... Mine resulted in excellent hearing. Even on the sensitive side. That doesn't helpful with the processing at all, though.

Noisy environments. Being even slightly tired. Not seeing the one talking. Etc etc.

My hearing is quite good, but my ability to make sense of things deteriorates swiftly with increasing background noise. I just cannot filter the crap out and hear what I want/need to hear. Lip-reading helps a little, but bring tired makes that more difficult. If you are walking away from me and there is background noise - forget about it. I also cannot hear phone conversations if there is background noise, so I leave the room of the radio or TV is on. My wife accused me of being secretive quite a few times before she finally twigged it is due to the fact I find it difficult to process out background noise.

We're on the same page here and I agree that's it's processing of sound by the brain not the 'mechanical ability' of the ears to hear it that is commonly experienced by autistic people. The first linked article from goldytheGoldfish appeared to cover every type of hearing problem in infants and I found the term APD a bit broad to be of much help in distinguishing between NDs and NTs.

On a different theme, I'd take a guess and say the processing of sound into meaningful communication involves a quite different part of the brain to the widely experienced pain and distress created by for eg ambulance sirens, small-penis-motorbikes or babies crying.

 

[Strixaluco]

I just cannot filter the crap out and hear what I want/need to hear.

And with accurate hearing, you mainly hear more of the crap that needs to be filtered.

My late husband had a habit of starting to talk out of the blue ( = I was concentrating on something else) while climbing up behind the corner in the concrete stairwell ( = awful echo) coming up to living quarters. In 10 years he didn't learn that he will have to repeat everything that he said once his up. Or worse - he spoke while going down, not hearing how I asked him to repeat.

Whereas my current partner learned quite fast that my brain takes a marvelling pause when looking in his eyes.

 

[goldytheGoldfish]

If this is supposedly so common, I don't understand why the diagnostic criteria hasn't been updated and standardized. If you search for "CAPD" (central auditory processing disorder) you get different results.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...cessing-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20555261

Many conditions can affect how well a person understands what they hear, such as attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) or autism. But these conditions are different from auditory processing disorder, although they can appear with APD.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK587357/

Central auditory processing disorder is a rare, poorly understood condition that affects the central auditory nervous system. Patients are classically young children presenting with hearing difficulties but may have other learning disorders, such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

https://www.asha.org/practice-porta...c9fA7-xyYjmKeC_pJEgb_Spal0tlkdkZ4E1hR0fDYS7HQ

• CAPD may co-occur with (and necessitate differentiation from) other disorders (e.g., attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, language delay or disorder, and learning disability).
• CAPD is not due to peripheral hearing loss, whether conductive (i.e., involving the outer or middle ear) or sensorineural (i.e., involving the cochlea or auditory nerve).

https://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/600_699/0668.html

Auditory processing disorder (APD), also known as central auditory processing disorder, supposedly interferes with both the input and integration of verbal information, and results in a potentially permanent cognitive dysfunction during the developmental period of acquisition of language. The prevalence of APD in the general population has not been firmly established. Chermak and Musiek (1997) estimated that APD occurs in 2 to 3 % of children, with a 2-to-1 ratio between boys and girls, while Cooper and Gates (1991) estimated the prevalence of adult APD to be 10 to 20 %. Neurological disorders, diseases, and insults, including neurodegenerative diseases, probably account for most acquired APD in adults; however, such disorders probably account for 5 % or fewer of diagnosed cases of APD in children, especially as APD relates to learning disability (Musiek et al, 1985, 1992).

 

[goldytheGoldfish]

We're on the same page here and I agree that's it's processing of sound by the brain not the 'mechanical ability' of the ears to hear it that is commonly experienced by autistic people. The first linked article from goldytheGoldfish appeared to cover every type of hearing problem in infants and I found the term APD a bit broad to be of much help in distinguishing between NDs and NTs.

On a different theme, I'd take a guess and say the processing of sound into meaningful communication involves a quite different part of the brain to the widely experienced pain and distress created by for eg ambulance sirens, small-penis-motorbikes or babies crying.

Again, I'm not an expert in this, but it looks like testing for APD starts around age 7. The key word to differentiate seems to be "peripheral" hearing loss (physical) vs. "central" hearing loss (processing).

https://sphs.osu.edu/clinic/audiology-services/auditory-processing-disorders

Auditory processing disorders (APD) can be observed in both children and adults. Simply put, these are disorders in which the person appears as if they have a peripheral hearing loss but have normal hearing on the audiogram, or pure tone test. People with auditory processing disorders may have deficits in processing of auditory information in a number of ways: they may have difficulty listening when background noise is present, difficulty with “filling in” missing auditory information, problems with combining information between the two ears (called dichotic listening), and issues with the timing of auditory information, just to provide a few examples. These types of problems may result in the listener struggling to hear in less than optimal situations, not being able to understand non-native speakers of their language, and struggling with people who speak rapidly, among other deficits. Auditory processing disorders can be the result of a developmental delay, a disorder of the central auditory nervous system (e.g. related to a head injury or illness), or a “wiring” issue thought to have a genetic component.

Auditory processing disorders are assessed by audiologists as part of an interdisciplinary team approach. The diagnosis of auditory processing disorder is under the scope of practice of the profession of audiology. It is a low-incidence diagnosis and other types of causes for the suspected auditory difficulties should be ruled out prior to implementing an auditory processing evaluation. In children, testing is most effective at age 7 or older. Prior to testing, peripheral hearing loss should be ruled out. In addition, children that have been identified as being on the autism spectrum are not appropriate for this type of testing. Normal cognitive functioning should be established prior to seeking an auditory processing assessment.

Of course, there goes my theory. "Not appropriate"? Those are the people who should be screened for it the most I thought.

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/conditions/auditory-processing-disorder

Often times a child is identified by their parent or school teacher with concerns for auditory processing difficulties, and a referral to audiology can be placed by the child’s pediatrician to begin the evaluation process. Once the referral is received, a team of audiologists carefully collect and review information about the child to determine if the child meets the requirements for testing.

Due to the complexity of APD, there are several factors that are REQUIRED for a child to be eligible for testing.

A child must:

• Be at least 7 years old
• Have normal hearing, normal speech and language skills
• Have normal (or at least near-normal) intelligence

In addition, there are some co-occurring conditions that prevent a child from qualifying for testing.

Common reasons that a child may not be eligible for APD testing include:

• Autism Spectrum Disorder
• Down Syndrome
• Developmental delay/disorder
• Intellectual disability or below average IQ
• Significant speech/language disorders, such as apraxia of speech, stuttering, etc.
• Hearing loss of any degree or type

Because of the similarities of APD with other disorders, determining if a child is eligible for testing requires a very comprehensive review of the child’s past medical, educational, and developmental history. Testing for APD requires a child to participate in several listening tests that assess different areas of the auditory system. This testing can last for up to two hours, and requires a significant amount of attention and effort from the child. The results of each test are compiled and reviewed to determine if a diagnosis of APD is appropriate.

So... in conclusion: it's extremely common for children with autism to (additionally) have an auditory processing disorder. However, they can't be screened for auditory processing disorder because they have autism. Case closed. Brilliant. Perhaps I'm missing something.